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[Jarmel]

It has dedicated video encoding and decoding nearly all modern AMD GPU's do

The point im getting at is if you make your video buffer to small you end up thrashing the HDD and thats bad.

Right, so if they're using the ram for video buffering, wouldn't that take up a bigger footprint?

 

[szaromir]

Nah. 4.5GB + 512mb physical flex space unassigned + 512mb OS based swap space (paged to the drive). So it's actually 5.5gb in total, but 5gb if we're talking traditional full to game use.

They appear to be one and the same, or else Sony would issue something to that effect in their statement.

 

[cyberheater]

Okay, I'm just gonna check in here to see if I'm understanding this correctly before I make an ass of myself -

There's 8GB total, as we've always known, and 4.5 - 5 GB of it is dedicated to gaming, whereas the other 3GB is sealed off, and we don't know for what. Most likely the OS takes up about 1GB or 2GB, and the remaining space is unused, but still sealed off to prevent being unable to improve the OS later down the line. If they end up using it, then we can expect much more intensive OS features, and if not, it'll go to the devs as time goes by.

Correct?

Up to this point. As far as we non-devs know. Yep.

 

[nib95]

Yea, I see that now:



Now we are getting into territory that I'm not well versed and this pretty much goes over my head esp. with the conclusion that is drawn in that quote.

I think Digital Foundry are being disingenuous here. 5.5gb is actually available to the devs based on their own rumour. Just because 5GB of it is more traditional and optimal does not mean the additional 512mb (making 5.5gb total) isn't still available to devs.

 

[bishoptl]

Hmmm, interesting indeed.

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

They reserved some for 'future proofing' and some for not so useful features like video sharing.

You mean not useful to you. Agajn, you don't know how much will be used and for what feature. As it stands, the Vita OS is great but still limited. You can't watch a video while playing a game for eg. And several other apps don't allow you to game at the same time.

 

[SneakyStephan]

That's actually one of the main reasons why I'm adamant that despite commenting on the flex ram in the article and not addressing the numbers used in the article for the RAM allotment and stuff, sony is not "confirming by not directly denying" the allotment numbers.

But yeah, regardless, even if the numbers turn out to be true. The RAM allotment is about .5GB away from the max amount that can be used by games at 30fps anyways, and is way past the amount that can be used by 60fps games, so I'm not concerned.

ps4 has unified ram, you still need a bunch of that memory just to cache data (textures, level data etc for later to reduce load times, prevent texture pop in etc)

You can use all the ram, it won't make the game look better though

Unless ofc you want to flush the ram completely every time you start a new track/map and deal with atrocious loading times like on the ps3.
OR you can keep as much shit in ram as possible and precache as much as possible whenever there is idle time/leftover bandwidth so you can enjoy loading times that pc gamers have been enjoying since the mid 90s.

 

[KidBeta]

Right, so if they're using the ram for video buffering, wouldn't that take up a bigger footprint?

You would be insane to not use RAM for atleast some level of video buffering if you wrote straight to the HDD your performance would tank

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm well aware Sonys 5GB GDDR5 for gaming still out bandwidths Microsofts 5GB DDR3+32MB eSRAM.

This "issue" is non news based on an assumption (that even you must admit) mostly Sony fanboys/Microsoft haters made about memory allocation.

Anyone logical would have realized even wanted the PS4 to be a capable multitasking multimedia device. Which is NOT a bad thing.

I try not to catch myself in that double standard as even 5GB for Xbone is plenty enough to work with despite the disparity in performance vs PS4's memory. Those who complained too much about the Xbone shouldn't be hypocrites and judge PS4. Alas there are people who did that and those should be discredited in having any opinion when they were hard on Xbone but not PS4. I do agree there.

I should probably get a break in as this is my day off.

 

[Loudninja]

So more than half of the ram is for games,I don't see the problem?

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Aside the lack of mandatory camera and more mature architecture of PS4 the two consoles are really pretty much the same thing at this point.

Which is good because I want them to compete with games and services for my wallet.

PS4 still has a 50% more powerful GPU than Xbox One
PS4 still has GDDR5 and Xbox One has DDR3

Not the same thing and this should show in multi-platform games in the near future.

 

[Sid]

You mean not useful to you. Agajn, you don't know how much will be used and for what feature. As it stands, the Vita OS is great but still limited. You can't watch a video while playing a game for eg. And several other apps don't allow you to game at the same time.

Of course,we can watch a video while playing a game on the Vita BTW.

 

[Sethos]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

A phew, 5GB isn't the real number then ...

2GB FOR DEVELOPERS CONFIRMED!

 

[daveo42]

Pretty much, lol. At this point, I am just curious to see what all that space in the OS will be used for. There is more than enough of the best RAM on the market available for games. The GPU has a decisive edge over the Xbox One as well. Nothing has changed.

Well if rumors hold true, 1GB is reserved for future need, same as with Microsoft. It's a bit of future-proofing for them in the case that they need the space to add in additional components to the OS at any time. Seems like Sony wants to be ready for anything this time around when it comes for OS options.

 

[Kinyou]

Sony probably only doing this for 3rd party developers. Once ND and Santa Monica begin hitting the stride, they'll allow them 6.5-7. That OS can't be using no more than 1 GB of Ram.

Why would they do that? I doubt they're splitting up the ram just for fun

 

[Mayyhem]

PS4 still has a 50% more powerful GPU than Xbox One
PS4 still has GDDR5 and Xbox One has DDR3

Not the same thing and this should show in multi-platform games in the near future.

Should, but most likely wont, and if they do, very minimal differences (of course favoring the PS4)

 

[nib95]

They appear to be one and the same, or else Sony would issue something to that effect in their statement.

Not the same, as even stated in the OP. I believe one is physical one is virtual. But Sony claims in their statement all flexible ram is 100% the games and devs, never used by the OS. They do not confirm numbers so let's wait and see.

 

[Kyoufu]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

So if this isn't real, then does that mean Bear & Salmon will return?

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Should, but most likely wont, and if they do, very minimal differences (of course favoring the PS4)

What are you basing that on?

 

[i-Lo]

It's clearly not for gaming? Do you have any source for that? Or is that just speculation? Just because the game isn't using that memory doesn't mean that it's not for gaming. And if you're in the know, you wouldn't know how much RAM is being used for non-gaming related functionalities.

I'm speculating but now your comment is confusing me. Perhaps I should be more proper with the language I have use. 5GB atm it seems is allocated for pure game development according to Eurogamer. 3GB is reserved for all other functions including multi-media. The speculation is that these game-related OS (like UI, settings, custom soundtrack, cross game chat, etc) functions would have also been available if the PS4 had been released with 4GB ram overall when the rumoured footprint was between 10 and 20 times that of PS3's.

So the question is what features have the OS gained by sequestering 3GB of RAM atm and what classifications do these new features fall under.

However, given the OS is still incomplete, this ratio (game to os) is subject to change.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

So if this isn't real, then does that mean Bear & Salmon will return?

I sure hope so.

Not too concerned with the current memory allotment. Did everyone forget how a Dev said just the other day that they didn't know what to do with all of the ram and cores?

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

PS4 still has a 50% more powerful GPU than Xbox One
PS4 still has GDDR5 and Xbox One has DDR3

Not the same thing and this should show in multi-platform games in the near future.

But will third parties take advantage of that?

I have no doubt that Sony's first parties are going to blow us away but what about 3rd parties?

In theory game like FFXV should look better on PS4 but I think game will look identical on both systems.

Still I am picking PS4 day one and I will wait Xbone due to the Microsoft's joke attitude.

 

[daveo42]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

Hrm...so either DF's numbers are old, based on a dev kit, or completely wrong?

It feels like debating the issue now with all the other info out there is essentially moot. I think I'm fine with having 5GB available for games and hope that this amount will be enough to last developers for the next 5+ years.

I have no doubt this will end up being another long console cycle.

 

[nib95]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

Interesting. So DF's numbers are potentially wrong. Can't wait for Sony's clarification.

Maybe these numbers are temporary whilst they're still fine tuning the OS and tools? Might explain why Sony didn't clarify numbers.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

Then what does that say about DF?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Developers asked for 4 more gig of ram so only 1 GB of the extra 4 could be used for games. Makes sense.

Did you think the devs had access to the 4GB of ram before the upgrade ?
If we go by leaks they had access to 3.5GB now the have access to 1.5GB more .
Which is 5GB that 1.5GB extra is more than 3 times as much as this gen .

 

[Windom Earle]

What are you basing that on?

Wishes.

Then what does that say about DF?

Leadbetter is going through his own personal rumor meltdown lately.

 

[Sethos]

Then what does that say about DF?

That they are full of shit as usual?

 

[ironcreed]

Well if rumors hold true, 1GB is reserved for future need, same as with Microsoft. It's a bit of future-proofing for them in the case that they need the space to add in additional components to the OS at any time. Seems like Sony wants to be ready for anything this time around when it comes for OS options.

It is a lot of space for an OS, but both Sony and Microsoft do indeed need to play it smart for future updates, etc. Again, more than enough is left for gaming on both systems, but Sony still has the edge with GDDR5. In which case, we are really back to where we started.

 

[MoneyHats]

You are indeed correct, based on bandwidth figures, the amount of ram available to each console is as follows.

---

Xbox One | 8GB DDR3 at 68GB/s (5GB available to devs)

At 60fps the maximum memory available per frame is 1.133GB
At 30fps the maximum memory available per frame is 2.266GB


PS4 | 8GB GDDR5 at 176GB/s (5.5GB available to devs) 512mb of that swap space, paged to the HDD.

At 60fps the maximum memory available per frame is 2.933GB
At 30fps the maximum memory available per frame is 5.866GB

---

This is the actual maximum amount of memory available to each console irrespective of what amount the OS uses up.


If people are wondering why the figures at they are, the bandwidth amounts dictate the maximum amount of ram available per second. So 68GB/s means 68GB maximum memory access per second. If a game is 30fps it means there are 30 frames rendered per one second. So you just divide 68 (the amount of ram bandwidth and thus available ram per second) by 30 (in this example the number of frames being rendered in per second).

This is also why 1080i should not be abandoned this console generation.

Umm no, 1920 x 1080 is 1920 x 1080 pixels whether displayed interlaced or progressively, also the above calculations are a fallacy because XBO and PS4 memory cannot be compared 1:1. XBO architecture relies on a set of "Move Engines" and 32MB of ESRAM to feed the bandwidth pipeline. Anandtech has an article that explains how 32MB is more than enough to fit a 1080p framebuffer, probably a better source for this kind of information than from a poster who already admitted to purposely leaving out that very important tidbit.

 

[nib95]

This just got more interesting. The plot thickens!

 

[Y2Kev]

It means that there are a legion of people somewhere in Minnesota that say "bupkis" and "skedaddle" and that they are organizing a 1,000,000 Target Shopper march on Sony HQ to support OUYA

 

[longdi]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

in yoshida cerny we trust.

 

[Instigator]

What are you basing that on?

Probably generations of multiplatform games based on the lowest common denominator.

 

[Wynnebeck]

So if this isn't real, then does that mean Bear & Salmon will return?

Damn sure needs too. This faux-outrage and disappointment is beyond stupid.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

I'm speculating but now did your comment is confusing me. Perhaps I should be more proper with the language I have been using. 5GB atm it seems is allocated for pure game development according to Eurogamer. 3GB is reserved for all other functions including multi-media. The speculation is that these game-related OS (like UI, settings, custom soundtrack, cross game chat, etc) functions would have also been available if the PS4 had been released with 4GB ram overall when the rumoured footprint was between 10 and 20 times that of PS3's.

So the question is what features has the OS gained by sequestering 3GB of RAM atm and what classifications do these new features fall under.

However, given the OS is still incomplete, this ratio (game to os) is subject to change.

It's pointless at this point to speculate what Sony will be adding to their OS3-4 years down the line. They're probably just being cautious. The lack of memory reserved for the OS prevented them from doing cross-game chat, for example, this gen. Why given devs more than they need and have no room to add more OS-level functionalities?

 

[ILoveBish]

DF is in full meltdown mode. Sad to see it happening in real time.

 

[NoirVisage]

Probably generations of multiplatform games based on the lowest common denominator.

generations? were you twelve when this one started?

 

[Sethos]

It means that there are a legion of people somewhere in Minnesota that say "bupkis" and "skedaddle" and that they are organizing a 1,000,000 Target Shopper march on Sony HQ to support OUYA

Please let that be the title of the thread

 

[gruenel]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

So... a lot of fuss about nothing? lol

 

[szaromir]

Not the same, as even stated in the OP. I believe one is physical one is virtual. But Sony claims in their statement all flexible ram is 100% the games and devs, never used by the OS. They do not confirm numbers so let's wait and see.

Well, the 0.5GB of virtual memory is a swap file that sits on the HDD, so it's not random access memory space available to games. So effectively both consoles offer 5GB RAM to devs, which I think they're OK with since it makes multiplatform development straightforward without having to worry what to add on one platform or cut on the other. Pretty cool all things considered, I hope both MS and Sony make good use of the 3GB they reserved for their own purposes, ie. features that will make it really hard to go back to the last generation.

 

[Guymelef]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

Interesting.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Probably generations of multiplatform games based on the lowest common denominator.

Which generations are we talking about here? Surely not the Xbox and PS2 era, right?

 

[cyberheater]

Right, so if they're using the ram for video buffering, wouldn't that take up a bigger footprint?

You're talking less then 100Mb at most.

 

[reezoo]

176GB / 30 fps = 5.86 GB per frame.
Can anyone describe how devrlopers could have utilized more ram if available? Specially this early in console cycle.

 

[Tom Penny]

Did you think the devs had access to the 4GB of ram before the upgrade ?
If we go by leaks they had access to 3.5GB now the have access to 1.5GB more .
Which is 5GB that 1.5GB extra is more than 3 times as much as this gen .

Still does't explain why if they were working with 3.5 out of 4 and suddenly they get more ram and the OS size explodes...

 

[Glorified G]

Yes, we talked privately already. Take from that what you will.

 

[Pound_lb003]

It means that there are a legion of people somewhere in Minnesota that say "bupkis" and "skedaddle" and that they are organizing a 1,000,000 Target Shopper march on Sony HQ to support OUYA

Hey!

I say 'skedaddle', and I live near London!

I guess it is kinda suburban.

Whatever.

 

[farisr]

ps4 has unified ram, you still need a bunch of that memory just to cache data (textures, level data etc for later to reduce load times, prevent texture pop in etc)

You can use all the ram, it won't make the game look better though

Unless ofc you want to flush the ram completely every time you start a new track/map and deal with atrocious loading times like on the ps3.
OR you can keep as much shit in ram as possible and precache as much as possible whenever there is idle time/leftover bandwidth so you can enjoy loading times that pc gamers have been enjoying since the mid 90s.

There we go. Thank you for reminding me what was my initial reasoning for being excited for there possibly being so much RAM (if Sony ended up with just going for 1GB for the system and the rest for games). I had completely forgotten about the preloading/storing a ton of data aspect.

Now I will be a little sad if this turns out to be true. But at least it's still quality RAM.

 

[Leucrota]

Would rather them play it safe at the beginning of the generation and save some memory for the possibility of future-proofing the system.

If devs need it later in the generation and Sony has no need for the memory, I am sure it will be free up.

Everyone making a big deal out of this just comes off as crazy.