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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water

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J

Jarmel

Banned
cyberheater said:
You only need a relatively small memory buffer for the onboard video encoder and then commit that buffer to disk. A large memory pool is not required.
Click to expand...

I also thought there was a dedicated encoding chip but people were going around in the thread yesterday saying the HD video recording was taking up a good chunk of the base 1.5.
 
The Cowboy

The Cowboy

Member
I bet a part of the remaining 3gig is used for the last 15 minutes playback feature, no way would they want that streaming directly to the HDD while playing, so it would make sense to store it in extra free ram space.

No idea how much space it would need for this, but it would be a safe bet that some is used for this.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Satchel said:
it makes perfect sense. But as I've said, read through my posts. I'm on #TeamThisMeansNothing. I DO understand his frustration.

That's part you don't seem to want to acknowledge. I simply commented on how he sounded.

Yes, there are idiots in this thread. Yes, they are spinning shit. But its not like those posts mean anything. Especially when they're intentional trolling.
Click to expand...

That's what frustrates me the most.

There was a post maybe 10-20 back which said the following..

Compared to the X1 with it's "bloated OS" and focus on multimedia/TV the PS4 really looked like a true gamers focussed console. Now, as you can see, some people feel that's it's no longuer the case.
Click to expand...

If he feels so highly of his convictions then maybe he can be more precise in his criticism instead of saying "some people". Who are those people because this was never an issue with Xbones memory allocations (which are not even final) compared to PS4 non final allotment. I'm not going to get into the GDDR5 and why it's better than DDR3 debate as you may ready, some thing that this bring Xbone to par just to due partiy in the amount of memory each platform holds for games.

That's the type of discussion that's hard to get into because you cannot have rational discussion with those who are out to just troll and not logically contribute to the discussion.

I'm glad we could at least talk this out in the middle of this battlefield though :p
 
GraveRobberX

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
bishoptl said:
dacWflP.jpg
Click to expand...

Damn bish, your colon must be wrecked!
 
J

jayu26

Member
L

Loofy

Member
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
As I said to someone else, you guys are so used to double speak, it's like you expect everyone else to do it. What would you rather?

1) Rumor one happens. Exec A says something about it.. Then Exec B says something that doesn't mesh with Exec A. Then Exec C tries to fix what Exec A and B said but that only made things confusing. So finally after days later get "Company" to say and official statement to clear it up backtracking on all statements.

Or

2)Exec A and B stay shut and wait for "Company" to say an official statement to clear all and every rumor before it even gets to the confusion state so there won't be a need for a backtrack.

I'll take 2 any day. Sometimes being patient is better than being hasty.
Click to expand...
Im not sure what youre going on about. I expected them to go with something along the lines of 3) Microsoft confirms: Xbox One OS uses 3GB RAM, 5GB RAM for games
That was back in May, as soon as the console was announced. Pretty simple.
Sony did pretty much the opposite.
 
B

Bluekaveli

Member
Sony probably only doing this for 3rd party developers. Once ND and Santa Monica begin hitting the stride, they'll allow them 6.5-7. That OS can't be using no more than 1 GB of Ram.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
IncandescentPrecept said:
But earlier you said that the 3GB is for non-gaming related functionalities. Now you're saying that you don't know what the functionalities are?
Click to expand...

Like I said, I, along with many others are still wondering what 3GB are reserved for, since it's clearly not for gaming at the moment. So if something is not for gaming, it has to be for non-gaming related functions.

But the key point here is that the OS still in an incomplete stage.
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
Wynnebeck said:
More like 5GB GDDR5 vs 5GB DDR3+eSRAM. The fact that people are missing or ignoring because it doesn't fit their agenda, is that Sony is working with the fastest RAM available on the market compared to DDR3. We have no idea how this RAM is going to affect games but if we have devs and insiders saying that it makes a big damn difference, then guess what? It makes a difference in quality. None of you chowderheads are working on PS4 games or the architecture to try to come in this thread with a position of power and say some stupid shit like, "I'm just so frustrated that Sony is wasting so much RAM on the OS instead of games!" The moment you can explain technically how 5GB of GDDR5 RAM is the worst thing possible, is the moment people will listen to you. If you can't, then please shut the hell up. /rant
Click to expand...

#Claps.. I wish Gaf could be like arstechnica and have an editors pick right at the top because this is a perfect comment.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
nib95 said:
Nah. 4.5GB + 512mb physical flex space unassigned + 512mb OS based swap space (paged to the drive). So it's actually 5.5gb in total, but 5gb if we're talking traditional full to game use.
Click to expand...
So 5.5gb, but 0.5gb of it is kinda soft in the head?
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Jarmel said:
It's still an OS. Even if it's faster than the Microsoft OS, it's an OS. Unless you use these systems for browsing the web or some other nonsense, the amount of interaction with the OS where speed is critical or necessary is rather minimal.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter. There is no "waste". Waste would be to have different RAM types in two pools like on PS3 just so the OS would use the slower one. Right now the system is pretty UMA and Sony will free up at least a gig or a gig and a half in the months and years after the launch. This would not be possible with two pools. As for them reserving as much memory for the OS as MS in XBO at the start - why the fuck wouldn't they? Why give more RAM to multiplatform games which won't use it still because they're multiplatform? It's wiser to have as much RAM reserved for OS stuff that may be implemented if it prove itself popular. If no such stuff will happen then they'll just release all the reservation to games in a couple of years. This way no one loose.
 
N

nded

Member
Nealand Liquor said:
I just can't grasp why a gaming console needs so much RAM?
I'm old and maybe stuck in my ways, but I am becoming irritated by all these consoles trying to be anything but a dedicated gamng console. I really hope someone steps in *cough*valve*cough* and offers a real device dediicated strictly for gaming. Maybe I'm alone, but I already have a PCS360, smartphone and tablet, I don't need another all-in-one device. I do need what I don't have, and that's an next gen console dedicated only to gaming.
Click to expand...

Not everyone wants or can afford all of that shit, and maybe it's nice to have something that can stream Netflix and stuff from the media server on the big TV as well as play games.
 
F

farisr

Member
xaosslug said:
i noticed that after being confronted by bish yesterday, filopilo is still around...

choice quotes:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=72993941&postcount=1466
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73003591&postcount=1920
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73006491&postcount=2061

hmm!
Click to expand...


FINALBOSS said:
This needs to be more prominently displayed.

He's obviously passed bish's checks.
Click to expand...

That's actually one of the main reasons why I'm adamant that despite commenting on the flex ram in the article and not addressing the numbers used in the article for the RAM allotment and stuff, sony is not "confirming by not directly denying" the allotment numbers.

But yeah, regardless, even if the numbers turn out to be true. The RAM allotment is about .5GB away from the max amount that can be used by games at 30fps anyways, and is way past the amount that can be used by 60fps games, so I'm not concerned.
 
C

c0de

Member
MoneyHats said:
You beat me to it.

We can't compare Xbone's and PS4 memory 1:1, the only way to really compare is knowing how much real world bandwidth you can achieve with the move engines and ESRAM. People either forget or purposely ignore to exaggerate these comparisons.
Click to expand...

And don't forget the move-units.
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
Jarmel said:
I also thought there was a dedicated encoding chip but people were going around in the thread yesterday saying the HD video recording was taking up a good chunk of the base 1.5.
Click to expand...

It has dedicated video encoding and decoding nearly all modern AMD GPU's do

The point im getting at is if you make your video buffer to small you end up thrashing the HDD and thats bad.


c0de said:
And don't forget the move-units.
Click to expand...

I think we can safely rule out multi decade old technology :)
 
T

travisbickle

Member
I've come to the conclusion there's no way for me to comprehend the ramifications of this?

The main advantage of gddr is the bandwith, which you're going to have if you use 1gb or 5, right?
 
S

Sami+

Member
Okay, I'm just gonna check in here to see if I'm understanding this correctly before I make an ass of myself -

There's 8GB total, as we've always known, and 4.5 - 5 GB of it is dedicated to gaming, whereas the other 3GB is sealed off, and we don't know for what. Most likely the OS takes up about 1GB or 2GB, and the remaining space is unused, but still sealed off to prevent being unable to improve the OS later down the line. If they end up using it, then we can expect much more intensive OS features, and if not, it'll go to the devs as time goes by.

Correct?
 
A

ASIS

Member
Man, why is this such a big issue to some people? It's not like they are the only ones reserving huge quantities of RAM for the OS anyway.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Sweep14 said:
Remember : TLOU was using 512 Mb - 50 Mb (OS Footprint ) = 462 Mb of RAM on PS3...

Now imagine that the Last of US could benefit of eleven times more ram, had it been available on PS4...

Ram amount will not be a problem with both consoles. Nothing to worry
Click to expand...

And 2006-2009 PS3 games were only using 392MB, as the OS reserve was 120MB back then.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
nib95 said:
Nah. 4.5GB + 512mb physical flex space unassigned + 512mb OS based swap space (paged to the drive). So it's actually 5.5gb in total, but 5gb if we're talking traditional full to game use.
Click to expand...

Yea, I see that now:

We understand that this is a 1GB virtual address space, split into two areas - 512MB of on-chip RAM is used (the physical area) and another 512MB is "paged", perhaps like a Windows swap file. But to be clear, of the 8GB of GDDR5 on PS4, our contention is that 5GB of it is available to developers.
Click to expand...

Now we are getting into territory that I'm not well versed and this pretty much goes over my head esp. with the conclusion that is drawn in that quote.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Jarmel said:
I also thought there was a dedicated encoding chip but people were going around in the thread yesterday saying the HD video recording was taking up a good chunk of the base 1.5.
Click to expand...

If the leaked specs are true. Both machines have built in video encoders at the hardware level. Both will use minimal resources whilst doing their thing.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
dr_rus said:
It doesn't matter. There is no "waste". Waste would be to have different RAM types in two pools like on PS3 just so the OS would use the slower one. Right now the system is pretty UMA and Sony will free up at least a gig or a gig and a half in the months and years after the launch. This would not be possible with two pools. As for them reserving as much memory for the OS as MS in XBO at the start - why the fuck wouldn't they? Why give more RAM to multiplatform games which won't use it still because they're multiplatform? It's wiser to have as much RAM reserved for OS stuff that may be implemented if it prove itself popular. If no such stuff will happen then they'll just release all the reservation to games in a couple of years. This way no one loose.
Click to expand...

That is a waste. While it is being used, for me anyway, it could be used on something else that would benefit me more. Now is this a problem for the time being, no. However if there is a clash between first party studios and the OS team down the road, then yea I'm not going to be happy.
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
Loofy said:
Im not sure what youre going on about. I expected them to go with something along the lines of 3) Microsoft confirms: Xbox One OS uses 3GB RAM, 5GB RAM for games

That was back in May. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

But they aren't ready yet. Just because MS is doesn't mean Sony is. Why expect the same from someone else because that someone else did it? Should Sony knee-jerk react to every single thing MS does? I don't think so. This whole gen they've been calm and collected only speaking when they have something to say. It got them this far with no problem. Game journalist who created the perfectly crafted rumor now wants answers for something they stated from the get without facts to begin with, which resulted in this long thread of people acting as if they know everything about how this makes anything better or worse.
 
I

IncandescentPrecept

Banned
i-Lo said:
Like I said, I, along with many others are still wondering what 3GB are reserved for, since it's clearly not for gaming at the moment. So if something is not for gaming, it has to be for non-gaming related functions.

But the key point here is that the OS still in an incomplete stage.
Click to expand...

It's clearly not for gaming? Do you have any source for that? Or is that just speculation? Just because the game isn't using that memory doesn't mean that it's not for gaming. And if you're in the know, you wouldn't know how much RAM is being used for non-gaming related functionalities.
 
S

Satchel

Banned
LiquidMetal14 said:
That's what frustrates me the most.

There was a post maybe 10-20 back which said the following..



If he feels so highly of his convictions then maybe he can be more precise in his criticism instead of saying "some people". Who are those people because this was never an issue with Xbones memory allocations (which are not even final) compared to PS4 non final allotment. I'm not going to get into the GDDR5 and why it's better than DDR3 debate as you may ready, some thing that this bring Xbone to par just to due partiy in the amount of memory each platform holds for games.

That's the type of discussion that's hard to get into because you cannot have rational discussion with those who are out to just troll and not logically contribute to the discussion.

I'm glad we could at least talk this out in the middle of this battlefield though :p
Click to expand...

I'm well aware Sonys 5GB GDDR5 for gaming still out bandwidths Microsofts 5GB DDR3+32MB eSRAM.

This "issue" is non news based on an assumption (that even you must admit) mostly Sony fanboys/Microsoft haters made about memory allocation.

Anyone logical would have realized even Sony wanted the PS4 to be a capable multitasking multimedia device. Which is NOT a bad thing.
 
MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
nib95 said:
You are indeed correct, based on bandwidth figures, the amount of ram available to each console is as follows.

---

Xbox One | 8GB DDR3 at 68GB/s (5GB available to devs)

At 60fps the maximum memory available per frame is 1.133GB
At 30fps the maximum memory available per frame is 2.266GB


PS4 | 8GB GDDR5 at 176GB/s (5.5GB available to devs) 512mb of that swap space, paged to the HDD.

At 60fps the maximum memory available per frame is 2.933GB
At 30fps the maximum memory available per frame is 5.866GB

---

This is the actual maximum amount of memory available to each console irrespective of what amount the OS uses up.


If people are wondering why the figures at they are, the bandwidth amounts dictate the maximum amount of ram available per second. So 68GB/s means 68GB maximum memory access per second. If a game is 30fps it means there are 30 frames rendered per one second. So you just divide 68 (the amount of ram bandwidth and thus available ram per second) by 30 (in this example the number of frames being rendered in per second).
Click to expand...

This is also why 1080i should not be abandoned this console generation.
 
L

Law Abiding Stranger

Banned
Aside the lack of mandatory camera and more mature architecture of PS4 the two consoles are really pretty much the same thing at this point.

Which is good because I want them to compete with games and services for my wallet.
 
B

B.O.O.M

Member
lol so after reading some of the earlier pages I feel like some people had a lot of pent up frustration when it comes to the PS4. It just came pouring out or something hahaha

5-5.5GB of GDDR5 is awesome. I mean we were comparing 4GB of GDDR5 to 8GB of DDR3 a while back lol PS4 still has a clear advantage despite what some posters seems want to believe
 
L

Lagaff

Gub'mint Researcher
Let's see the games first..
Then what feature console makers can add to the os, and we can see if it's good or bad to have 3 gig reserved for the os.
I'm sure the footprint of the os will be reduced with the time on ps4 and xboxone.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
-griffy- said:
Oh, so Sony has the same amount of RAM allocated for games as the Xbox One does, only Sony's RAM is faster? In other words, exactly where we were when we knew Xbox One had 8GB of DDR3 and PS4 had 8GB of GDDR5. PS4 has always had the advantage there and it still does. The PS4 has the same amount of memory but it's faster. This is essentially a non story that has blown out of proportion.

What gets me is all these people crying that "What the hell Sony, I guess it never was 8GB. You lied to us." Um, no you idiots. The system has 8GB of RAM. When developers asked for the system to have 8GB of RAM, this is exactly what they meant. It's not like developers are going, "What the hell? We don't have 8GB of RAM anymore?" They didn't think they were getting a full 8GB of RAM to utilize with their games, because the developers aren't morons and they know how hardware and OS's work.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, lol. At this point, I am just curious to see what all that space in the OS will be used for. There is more than enough of the best RAM on the market available for games. The GPU has a decisive edge over the Xbox One as well. Nothing has changed.
 
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