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[nib95]

By upclocking later models wouldn't they be screwing over people with PS4 "phats"?

Yes. If the first gen consoles couldn't handle the upclock that is. There was a rumour of an upclock a while back. Wish it was true. Could do with that extra muscle.

 

[Lifesontheline]

You'll change your tune when Sony releases a downloadable patch that allows liquid nitrogen cooling.

for a minute I pondered if it was possible

A GPU upclock simply isn't happening IMO.

Even then, I'm not inclined to believe leadbetter.

Yea i probably went to far with the leadbetter comment, guess we'll see I don't see a upclock ever happening either. that's suicide for a closed box like these.

 

[rjinaz]

What's with so many saying pre order canceled/disappointed? lol

Even if it turns out that 2.5 GB is reserved for future use in addition to the OS's 1GB/1.5GB amount. I cannot see how that would seem restrictive for first and probably second year games since overall devs seem fine with what they have been given and like the PS3 OS matured, the PS4 will probably also see a reduction in RAM memory usage and unlike the X1 it has only 1 OS so this is probably an attempt to keep up with features in response to Microsoft by future proofing the RAM available.

Also since this is GDDR5 memory console muti-platform will still have better RAM to work with on PS4 over the competition.

I have read through all three of these fridayton ram threads and I'm pretty sure nobody has actually canceled their pre-orders over this. Maybe, one or two people have at most. Most everybody has said it in jest. Same goes for those saying they are disappointed. They are either jesting, or, they had a problem with the PS4 in the first place. The jesting is what has made these threads fun to read through.

 

[crazepharmacist]

I was thinking that maybe but why wouldn't you do it prior to release then? Are they afraid it wouldn't be stable? If that's so it wouldn't be any more stable down the road, right? They wouldn't dare risk fragmenting their user base.

Weren't there rumors about an RSX overclock? As the PS3 slims were significantly cooler than the original fats Sony felt confident in releasing a firmware update to overclock the GPU. Slims and super slims run it fine but original fats starting dying off a bit faster than usual. It's definitely not outside the realm of possibility to do this for PS4.

 

[nib95]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also said some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

Good summary.

 

[i-Lo]

Yes. If the first gen consoles couldn't handle the upclock that is. There was a rumour of an upclock a while back. Wish it was true. Could do with that extra muscle.

Even a 50MHz increase would push it to 2TF.

 

[MichaelMikado]

Okay, let's pretend for a moment that remote play uses the full bandwidth of 802.11n at absolute highest speed it can possibly run at. Which it won't. But let's say it does. That's 600 Mb/s. Note that's megabits, not megabytes, so you have to divide by 8 to get megabytes. So that's 75 megabytes per second. There's 1024 megabytes in a gigabyte. The PS4 has 176 gigabytes per second of bandwidth.

So the absolute max bandwidth remote play could be using, assuming it doesn't have a separate bus between the hardware encoder and wifi, is 75 out of 180224 megabytes per second. I suspect if the PS2 had a hardware h.264 encoder and wifi, it could handle remote play without any noticeable slowdown. edit: I guess I should point out that the PS3 does not have a hardware encoder, which is why remote play on it sucks.

PS4 does have a hardware encoder. Sony has implied that the VITA could be used as a second screen separate from what is displayed on the PS4 for some games, meaning it would need to render both the main screen and the remote screen simultaneously. Unlike the PS3 where remote play disables the screen. NOT separate games but it would still need to render the image separately. Also lets not forget the real-time recording which is likely being compressed and encoded realtime after being rendered and set back through memory to the HDD.

 

[Odrion]

I keep looking at this title and thinking "The Chocolate Cerny Starfish and the Ram-Flavored Water"

 

[Spongebob]

Yes. If the first gen consoles couldn't handle the upclock that is. There was a rumour of an upclock a while back. Wish it was true. Could do with that extra muscle.

Honestly I hope both consoles get upclocks, but its probably pretty unlikely.

 

[Zukuu]

Best title.

Gaf drowning in the tub.

 

[Elios83]

Nm process or chip size? Later ones might be smaller and run cooler. Or simply gave better yields. He said something about how the PSP got an up clock late cycle. I didn't even know this.

It wasn't really an update, the chip was capable of running at a higher speed since the beginning, they said that it could work between 233MHz and 333MHz from day one.
At launch because of the battery technology available back then they decided to settle with 233MHz as the best compromise for graphics and battery life. Then later on they allowed developers to use the 333MHz mode.
This is not something that I can see being applied to a home console.

 

[Dragon]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

Nice man. This should be in the OP.

 

[Lifesontheline]

Yes. If the first gen consoles couldn't handle the upclock that is. There was a rumour of an upclock a while back. Wish it was true. Could do with that extra muscle.

I think a downclock(right now) is more likely with these boxes than a upclock. I don't see either company risking upclocking these things late in the gen when they're are designed for proper heat consumption.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

http://youtu.be/zEAUt-QHKkw

Obviously he's never met my people.

*purrs seductively*

 

[nib95]

Even a 50MHz increase would push it to 2TF.

If there's any way without negative repercussions, I say do it. 2 Tflops is that prime mental barrier.

 

[Lastgengamer]

I have read through all three of these fridayton ram threads and I'm pretty sure nobody has actually canceled their pre-orders over this. Maybe, one or two people have at most. Most everybody has said it in jest. Same goes for those saying they are disappointed. They are either jesting, or, they had a problem with the PS4 in the first place. The jesting is what has made these threads fun to read through.

You are probably right about it being in jest, with the internet it can sometimes be hard to be sure-_-

 

[QP3]

Great summary

Wow, this helps catch up. Thank you!

 

[FINALBOSS]

If there's any way without negative repercussions, I say do it. 2 Tflops is that prime mental barrier.

Would make all us PS4 owners straighttttt thug.

 

[nib95]

I think a downclock(right now) is more likely with these boxes than a upclock. I don't see either company risking upclocking these things late in the gen when they're are designed for proper heat consumption.

Not really. These are small chips with pretty good leeway, even for more excessive over clocks. They're actually more conservatively clocked than the PC GPU comparatives, despite having what I'd imagine would be a more advanced cooling solution.

 

[Spongebob]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

Spot on.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Wow, this helps catch up. Thank you!

He missed the ram gifs, though. Those were awesome.

 

[MichaelMikado]

All that is fine but in the end I doubt that it's bad because as aforementioned, if all the processes except remote play were simultaneously functional (quite possible) it'll still require less than 1GB/s or if the bit rate for HD video+audio recording, in-game chat and in-game music haven't changed overnight.

With regards to remote play, the PS4 can't play another game simultaneously while streaming one to PSV. So it doesn't form a part of that aggregate.



Dafuq is this shit?

See other post about second screen vita which separate image being rendered. Not different game but still needs the image rendered at the PS4

 

[ypo]

So so close but blueballed once again.

 

[Spongebob]

Even a 50MHz increase would push it to 2TF.

Could that still happen despite Sony being very open with the current 1.84TFLOPS figure?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Could that still happen despite Sony being very open with the current 1.84TFLOPS figure?

Man, after all the shit that's happened since the initial PS4 reveal... anything can happen. lol

EDIT: Next, that absolutely retarded Wii U overclock will be true!

 

[Spongebob]

All these digital foundry threads over the past few days have followed the exact same format....

 

[Ironmanxrs2]

Weren't there rumors about an RSX overclock? As the PS3 slims were significantly cooler than the original fats Sony felt confident in releasing a firmware update to overclock the GPU. Slims and super slims run it fine but original fats starting dying off a bit faster than usual. It's definitely not outside the realm of possibility to do this for PS4.

So after the original consoles have been on the market for a couple of years (and out of warranty) you make changes to the new redesign upclock GPU via firmware and watch your old "phat" systems die off over the next two years forcing people to buy a new console?

If so, that would be really, really gangster.

 

[daveo42]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

Thanks a bunch for the update. Haven't been really following because it seems like this shit changes every 30mins.

I think we may never really know the true total until either Sony confirms or the console launches.

 

[i-Lo]

Could that still happen despite Sony being very open with the current 1.84TFLOPS figure?

I honestly don't see it happening given how public the 1.84TF figure for GPU has been. Still, it is possible just not probable.

 

[cLOUDo]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

this should be in the OP


EDIT: thanks btw

 

[SEGAvangelist]

So after the original consoles have been on the market for a couple of years (and out of warranty) you make changes to the new redesign upclock GPU via firmware and watch your old "phat" systems die off over the next two years forcing people to buy a new console?

If so, that would be really, really gangster.

Tin foil hat and all... I swear that's what happened to my 60GB PS3 launch unit.

 

[ypo]

Sony will never release the allocation figures. No console maker ever did.

 

[nib95]

Could that still happen despite Sony being very open with the current 1.84TFLOPS figure?

Doubt it. Do FCC certificates have info on such things? If yes, almost impossible imo, since retail units have already passed theirs.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Sony will never release the allocation figures. No console maker ever did.

This thread can go on forever, then? SWEET!

 

[Lifesontheline]

Not really. These are small chips with pretty good leeway, even for more excessive over clocks. They're actually more conservatively clocked than the PC GPU comparatives, despite having what I'd imagine would be a more advanced cooling solution.

idk, i just don't see them taking the chance down the line to increase the speed of older models in 2 years. that's imo something you should test and design for from the start instead of risking massive failures down the line.

maybe i'm not optimistic enough for these gpus *shrug*

 

[Spongebob]

Sony will never release the allocation figures. No console maker ever did.

Someone will leak it either way.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

idk, i just don't see them taking the chance down the line to increase the speed of older models in 2 years. that's imo something you should test and design for from the start instead of risking massive failures down the line.

maybe i'm not optimistic enough for these gpus *shrug*

It's the launch unit risk, man. Just roll with it.

 

[daveo42]

This thread can go on forever, then? SWEET!

Only until NDAs get lifted, which should be in approximately 3 months.

Even a 50MHz increase would push it to 2TF.

How much power draw and additional heat are we talking about here? I mean, you can push the spec, but it also depends on if your hardware and cooling can handle the bump.

 

[Elios83]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place.

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

Thank you! =)
So DF seems to be wrong on the particular allocations.
Still as I said yeasterday I think this has really little relevance. PS4 was conceived for 4GB of total memory, the rest was added lately to catch up on the OS side.
Do developers really need more than 4GB of memory dedicated to games with a 100Gigaflops CPU and 1.8Tf GPU?
I honestly don't think so, unless the memory is just being used for every conceivable form of laziness with datas management.
That's why no developer is actually complaining as per point 3 of your reply. Memory available to them is really balanced and more than enough to make the games they want to make.
Personally I think that 5.5GB for games and 2.5GB for OS (including reserved memory for future proofing) is a really good and balanced split for the system.

 

[Odrion]

Yeah, thuway's overclocking predictions seem a little crazy.

Thuway keeps mentioning that the PSP was overclocked later on, but remember that the PSP's cpu was first underclocked due to battery drain. The PS4's GPU is the way it is so it doesn't fry the system.

 

[lazybones18]

59 pages....keep up the good work, guys

 

[meppi]

Leadbetter has done incredible work on reporting the ins and outs of these machines, and is an amazing source of knowledge. I've chatted with him personally about 4k gaming and where we see the future of graphics. Do not make Leadbetter out to be some console fanboy that is getting paid in Kinnects.

Thanks you for pointing this out once and for all.

I've been saying this for a long time now and I hope the detractors and haters will finally put all the crap they have been spewing about him to rest.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

 

[googleplex]

2 GB for the OS is a lot more reasonable if it's cram packed with always running, rich software. It's still high, but believable. 3 GB for Windows 8 HTPCs that have 2 apps open isn't believable.

It actually sounds like the current OS with all of its advertised functions takes up 1.5 gigs of ram and Sony is reserving an additional 512 megabytes for future use.

 

[LowParry]

Man, I keep checking out these threads to see what's been going on with the title changes. Goddamn GAF. It's nice to see some clarification though. Don't know why people were getting all upset with Sony.

 

[lordchompy]

Looks like someone got more RAM than they asked for. Oh wait, if we're talking about consoles and Gaf, that's not possible.

 

[xaosslug]

1) Digital Foundry / Eurogamer claims in an article that 4.5 GB is available for development at launch, with 512 MB / 1 GB as flexible memory

2) Various, unbanned GAF insiders have said "That article is incorrect"

3) Thuway, Famousmortimer, BruceLeeRoy, and Verendus (all unbanned) have all heard "The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way." That should mean that games at launch won't be affected by any kind of restrictions in place

4) Thuway stated that some games currently in development are using 6 GB of RAM, but also implied some form of RAM restrictions at launch is not completely out of the equation

5) Kagari (has connections to Square-Enix) also agreed with the 6 GB claim

6) VBlank Entertainment (Retro City Rampage) has denied that Sony is reserving 3.5 GB of RAM for the OS

7) NOTHING is confirmed until either Sony states something or launch RAM allocations are revealed in some way

8) filopilo (GAF's newest insider?) denied DF/Eurogamer's climes as well...

 

[thuway]

Yeah, thuway's overclocking predictions seem a little crazy.

Thuway keeps mentioning that the PSP was overclocked later on, but remember that the PSP's cpu was first underclocked due to battery drain. The PS4's GPU is the way it is so it doesn't fry the system.

I didn't say this is going to happen for sure. The PS4 is a very conservative design in regards to heat. If launch units hold up well over the years, there is a possibility of a late gen bump for when things get stale.


HOWEVER,

The main point I wanted to make it is there are games utilizing 6 GB of RAM in development.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

WITH THIS SAID: There are games in development that are using 6 GB of RAM. I will not say any more about this.

 

[Row]

What's the deal with DF anyways? They sound more and more like a Microsoft subsidiary everyday