Vermillion
Banned
I felt so bad for Burke. Went out all heroic...
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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
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I felt so bad for Burke. Went out all heroic...
Why. They have got points. 5 gb of ram is over 10x that of last gen. Overreacting to fuck all.
ChainsawFilms
Member
Such a madness filled thread, it's encouraged me to sign in and post.....
Some of the posts here are insane. And not in a funny way
It looks like Sony, having jumped from 4gig to 8gig, decided to play it smart. They figure if MS are reserving 3gig, why not do the same FOR NOW to see what they have up their sleeve. Maybe MS are sitting on some awesome feature and Sony want to make sure they have room to copy it (remembering they couldn't do cross game chat last gen, for example).
The old figures we had thrown around back in the 4gig day, with 3.5 being for games, was probably true. The games were being developed for 3.5gig. Sony now turn around, let the devs know they've got another gig / 1.5 gig to play with RIGHT NOW. Everyone's happy, less memory optimising to do during this crucial pre-launch dev period, and no currently developed game (or rather announced) would be "handicapped" by having this extra RAM.
The PS4 OS will likely still sit in that planned 512mb, and maybe Sony decide to raise their own OS footprint to a gig. You have to figure they'd want another gig reserved for apps / multitasking, and it would make sense to store that 15minutes of gameplay in system RAM rather than thrash the HDD and eat into precious HDD bandwidth. So yeah, 2 gigs sounds about right, all in. Keep another gig saved just in case, then release it as and when you can.
If they're telling some devs to target 6 gig, they're pretty sure that's what the end figure will be.
Some of the posts here are insane. And not in a funny way
It looks like Sony, having jumped from 4gig to 8gig, decided to play it smart. They figure if MS are reserving 3gig, why not do the same FOR NOW to see what they have up their sleeve. Maybe MS are sitting on some awesome feature and Sony want to make sure they have room to copy it (remembering they couldn't do cross game chat last gen, for example).The old figures we had thrown around back in the 4gig day, with 3.5 being for games, was probably true. The games were being developed for 3.5gig. Sony now turn around, let the devs know they've got another gig / 1.5 gig to play with RIGHT NOW. Everyone's happy, less memory optimising to do during this crucial pre-launch dev period, and no currently developed game (or rather announced) would be "handicapped" by having this extra RAM.
The PS4 OS will likely still sit in that planned 512mb, and maybe Sony decide to raise their own OS footprint to a gig. You have to figure they'd want another gig reserved for apps / multitasking, and it would make sense to store that 15minutes of gameplay in system RAM rather than thrash the HDD and eat into precious HDD bandwidth. So yeah, 2 gigs sounds about right, all in. Keep another gig saved just in case, then release it as and when you can.
If they're telling some devs to target 6 gig, they're pretty sure that's what the end figure will be.
MichaelMikado
Banned
By section I mean amount before some gaffer yells you don't measure bandwidth in sections
SEGAvangelist
Member
Me eyes! (seriously, that was a lot of blinding white, lol)
thanks for the backup
so Overreacting guy
BTW this need more views
http://retrocityrampage.com/blog/2013/07/522/
Not necessarily.
I don't know if it's been conclusively proved/disproved since Friday, but there was the notion that DF is reporting on the limits for 8GB devkits that have to devote extra resources to tools, debug, etc, while 2GB/6GB could be the planned split for retail units, and final devkits that potentially have more than 8GB of RAM.
Given the hardware even 5GB of GDDR5 seems fine. People have some very unrealistic expectations when they're panicking about things like this. Look what 512MB got us over the course of ~7 years.
If a dev is struggling with 5 (or I guess 6 now) gigs of memory than something doesn't add up
If a dev is struggling with 5 (or I guess 6 now) gigs of memory than something doesn't add up
Your the one making an extraordinary claim here. And I don't have a source for anything. Please stop pulling bullshit assumptions out of your ass.
Using basic knowledge one would know that cross game chat whose bit rate is somewhere between 32 and 128kpbs. Add to that music is streamed on the HDD and the bitrate for that is generally under 320kpbs (mp3). As for background download, if we are to hypothetically assume that everyone has 50mbit connection (around 6MB/s) and for some reason has to go through RAM before it can be sent to HDD buffer before being written on it, they all add up to far less than 1GB/s.
I don't know what you're trying to pull here.
TheGuardian
Member
A framebuffer for Vita would take around 2MB of memory.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Right. Not being rude but it's 1:40am. Time for bed. See ya.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Well we'll actually have real things to judge rather than endless speculation. Casey Hudson should have just made the ME3 ending about RAM.
Multiplatform titles will always target the lowest common denominator. The job of multiplatform development is parity. If you have extra headroom, you can throw out spare effects, higher resolutions, etc. However, to the majority of GAF and the mainstream audience- they will never notice a difference.
If you've followed the thread properly, you'd have read developers saying that the numbers were false, and other people with insider sources who passed "the test" also say the numbers were false.
The important thing is, never again, as a playstation only console owner will ever suffer from the stigma of inferior ports.
So the ps3 and 360 mutiplatform games were all dead even?
The little nuances are what drive the fanboy wars.
if that were true why is it some of the best looking games are multiplatform? why is it some multiplatform games look better than some on one system instead of another?
So the ps3 and 360 mutiplatform games were all dead even?
The little nuances are what drive the fanboy wars.
By mainstream audience I think he means casuals. Obviously many core and forum dwelling gamers will pick at even the smallest differences.
Thank you Kagari.
I hope this puts an end to the GAF hive mind. Stop trying to compose a narrative where the RAM available on PS4 is somehow compromising next generation titles. Famousmortimer, Bruce, Verendus, and I have all heard:
This cannot be repeated enough. No matter how many times this was said, there is "disappointment" and an insistence that Sony is crafting a machine that isn't focused on gaming. Stop it GAF.
WITH THIS SAID: There are games in development that are using 6 GB of RAM. I will not say any more about this.
I will say: the RAM situation on launch, will not reflect the RAM situation in two years, and not reflect the RAM situation at the end of the console's life cycle.
Another hint I've been trying to drop is that there is potential for an upclock a few years into the console life cycle for both Xbox One and PS4. This can give a late generation graphics boost similar to the one on PSP. (Optimistic parrot hopes for a 2.4 TF 1 GHZ GPU)
Finally,
GAF, I love you, but sometimes you have to understand people can be wrong. I've been wrong, yes, I'm sorry, but I have never personally tried to mislead anyone. Leadbetter has done incredible work on reporting the ins and outs of these machines, and is an amazing source of knowledge. I've chatted with him personally about 4k gaming and where we see the future of graphics. Do not make Leadbetter out to be some console fanboy that is getting paid in Kinnects.
Honestly Thuway, I simply don't see a GPU upclock ever happening.
MichaelMikado
Banned
I see you don't know how a computer works.. Yes it goes to RAM first. In addition the Vita Remote play must be rendered on the PS4 as well since it is designed for EVERY GAME. Plus the 15 mins of video being CONSTANTLY recorded. MUST all travel in/out of system RAM unless the CPU is and rendering pipe are able to directly/magically write direct to the HDD. Again there are ALOT of active and memory intensive services running simultaneous which could POTENTIALLY be bandwidth hogs. So Where all you getting those numbers from??? Again I say SOURCE. All the services I listed were VERIFIED by Sony. You are the only making up things as FACT.. We don't even know if these items are compressed, uncompressed, when they travel through system RAM
Aquamarine
Member
We will never be "sure" until Sony makes clarifying comments or developers reveal launch, retail allocations.
But we should be doubtful about Digital Foundry's claims until we can get the full story.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
No, that's not what I was saying.
I explicitly said I haven't followed One since the DRM situation. I just took it as a norm that any eDram solution meant to combat the fast GDDR5 in the PS4 would at least have higher bandwidth than the PS4's mem. I don't know if it does. I just assumed so. Otherwise its existence is completely superfluous.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I've read the thread endlessly (along with the rest of them). Based on the way thuway worded things, his defending DF, and also based on what Shin said as well, there may be some truth to some of what DF published at least for the launch window which won't use all the RAM anyway. What are you having a hard time understanding?
ElfArmy177
Member
God damnit GAF. Is it 4.5/5/6??? I need to know this to help with my attack against my Xbox friends! I'm kidding, but seriously do we have confirmation?
My god.
well all the numbers have come from sources who have been known to be wrong before so take that for what you will.
Aquamarine
Member
Why on earth would that matter?
I'm sure those in the know know what these numbers actually mean with regards to developing games for a closed box environment. But I'm also sure that the vast majority of people overreacting to this (in one way or the other) have no idea what it means in real terms and are just concerned with an arbitrary numbers pissing contest.
Long an short of it: the games they've shown so far look great, many a jaw has dropped, 5GB of memory open to developers would be more than most hoped for in their best case scenario for next gen consoles (if you cast your mind back just 5 months or so), and having an extra 10% or 20% more RAM than that won't make a difference to your enjoyment of the console.
Long an short of it: the games they've shown so far look great, many a jaw has dropped, 5GB of memory open to developers would be more than most hoped for in their best case scenario for next gen consoles (if you cast your mind back just 5 months or so), and having an extra 10% or 20% more RAM than that won't make a difference to your enjoyment of the console.
You seem to having a hard time understanding "the numbers are wrong".
Meaning, launch may not have "the most available RAM", but the numbers being thrown by Digital Floundry are wrong.
RedAssedApe
Banned
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Very good read. And although he opens with how he "can't go into specifics," he does say about the rumor that, "even had it been true," which to my ears sounds like he's definitively (and sneakily) saying it's flat out false. Of course, he's already called the rumor "absolutely false" and "absolutely ridiculous."
I'm fairly convinced.
MichaelMikado
Banned
That's a claim stated as fact. Source?
Ironmanxrs2
Banned
Oh it's going to be brutal. Check out this exact scene in BF4 ... See the elbow on that 4th guy in the back...blurry!
It's going to be so awesome to watch.
I can't wait to participate in those threads and tear down those Team Vernia's and his comrades!!!
It has at least 5, and the RAM is faster than the Xbox 1's RAM, and so is the GPU.
MichaelMikado
Banned
Also Im talking bandwidth not size here.
I don't remember claiming knowing all the ins and outs of a computer. Also, you talked about cross game chat and background download, not remote play and HD recording. For the things I talked about, the numbers are obvious. I don't know why would anyone require sources for those data rate consumption for those services. Simple math.
For things like HD recording and Remote play, those things are intriguing but I don't believe Sony will ever reveal figures for bandwidth "cap". One can only hope for something like that from arstechnica/DF/Anandtech.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
What if DF knew no one was allowed to confirm or deny this rumor so they intentionally low balled the number to get a rise out of the internet.
Look how GAF and devs on twitter are reacting to it.
Look how GAF and devs on twitter are reacting to it.
Duxxy3
Member
Wow.
LOL
Not very well apparently. Guess you missed the Sony dev who said the numbers were wrong (he wrote a blog post about it), as well as others. And GAF insiders implying 6gb. Thuway just said he knows of a game already using 6gb, and that's using a dev kit now.
Edit: Oh and the Filipo guy Bish spoke to privately (eg not banned so legit) who also said the numbers were BS.
Precisely, good sir.
Why is everyone forgetting that the PS4 GPU (you know, the main shit that matters-mostly) is 50% faster?
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