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IGN: Sony has yet to show anything running on PS4, using PCs [actually Dev-kits]

B

beast786

Member
LukasTaves said:
You quoted him yourself:

"Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same."

He is talking about everything that was in a box similarly shaped to the retail units.
Click to expand...

And that PC running was not in a similar box and running win7. So again. No
 
J

jmdajr

Member
shinobi602 said:
iBcTPDhrbSX7B.gif
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This gif is pretty darn good
 
G

Gestault

Member
benny_a said:
I went back to threads around E3 to link someone else to a thread.

The issue at E3 was that "demos" were running on Windows PCs. The issue was certainly overblown, but it was because the hardware games were running on were not even close to target-spec.
(Not even using AMD, but Nvidia. 2x Titan and shit like that.)

To call this concern over not running on final units is quite the mischaracterization.
Click to expand...

With that E3, we ended up with confirmation that many of the first-party games were running on final hardware (this was even before the upclock), and the PC setups were running at comparable settings to what the companies were claiming their final release would look like. You simply can't suggest that the threads reacting to that weren't incredibly negative even in light of that information. That was simply how a meaningful chunk of gaming enthusiasts reacted to it. Here we're having someone point out the same situation with Sony's presentations, but much later-on.

Like I said; most people should understand that using dev-units isn't indicative of a problem, but I was explaining why someone seeing that might think it was newsworthy. Sony may simply not care to make a point to show using consumer-style hardware because they have nothing to prove. Considering the reaction from the community at the time in a similar situation, I think the author's justification for thinking this was something people would care about is absolutely warranted (again, all things being equal).
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Gestault said:
With that E3, we ended up with confirmation that many of the first-party games were running on final hardware (this was even before the upclock), and the PC setups were running at comparable settings to what the companies were claiming their final release would look like. You simply can't suggest that the threads reacting to that weren't incredibly negative even in light of that information. That was simply how the gaming enthusiasts reacted to it. Here we're having someone point out that much later-on, Sony doesn't even appear to be at the point Microsoft was then.
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So according to your interpretation of this thread, Sony isn't running the games shown at the Sony booth on PS4 hardware but Microsoft was running games over 2 months ago already on final hardware?

That doesn't seem consistent with Albert Penello saying that there is no final hardware yet, only near-final hardware. (His post was made post-GC.)
Also doesnt seem consistent with what Scott Lowe says, if you have to use him as the basis for your argument, as he clarified he was talking about PS4 devkits all along and was just confused when calling them PCs. (My editorial of the 11 hour late revelation.)
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
Mobius1 said:
As for the tweet, what he should have said is "I personally haven't seen a functioning, production-line PS4. I wonder if that means anything?" The attempt to equate dev-kits with PCs was silly.
Click to expand...

It wasn't just silly, it came across as disingenuous.

Then once it was made clear in his feed that devkits were used for both consoles at GC, he shifted his "concern" to the form factor.

Yes. We should all be concerned that Sony, who has been making cutting-edge consumer electronics devices for decades, has suddenly forgotten how. They've met their match with the PS4: a box comprised of customized PC parts.
 
B

Breemin

Member
aganu said:
It's a running joke. :p
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phew I would hope so... Because if anyone really did, that would be an even bigger joke. Anyone making this into a real issue does not fully understand the development lifecycle. It was truly a non issue with MS and same with Sony.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
I see people jumping all over the guy, but if it's true that he has yet to see anything running on a system that even remotely resembles the PS4 final retail appearance, then that is something worth reporting, considering that, on the flip side, multiple titles have been seen running on nothing but retail Xbox One units. I'm quite certain the stuff he sees running is on PS4 dev kits, , but if he truly hasn't seen what he claims, and supposedly others from IGN share the same view, then it's something that should be reported.

I don't think people would be treating his reporting as somehow falsified or packed with bias if he were talking about the Xbox One, so we have to be a bit fair minded about this. That said, it isn't all that suspicious or unheard of that devs simply wouldn't have final dev kits, but simply have final hardware encased in something resembling a PC, even with it being this close to launch.

SniperHunter said:
So basically this IGNorant editor doesn't know what a devkit is and that the final hardware can't run unfinished code. lol
Click to expand...

You gotta be kidding me.... The code may not be as optimized as a developer wants or needs it to be for release, but final hardware regularly runs unfinished code.
 
T

TheHater

Member
mrklaw said:
this. Does IGN not expect to have any responsibility for crap they spout? Journalistic integrity?
Click to expand...

Does any game site take responsible for their employee action? Serious question btw.

SenjutsuSage said:
I see people jumping all over the guy, but if it's true that he has yet to see anything running on a system that even remotely resembles the PS4 final retail appearance, then that is something worth reporting, considering that, on the flip side, multiple titles have been seen running on nothing but retail Xbox One units. I'm quite certain the stuff he sees running is on PS4 dev kits, , but if he truly hasn't seen what he claims, and supposedly others from IGN share the same view, then it's something that should be reported.

I don't think people would be treating his reporting as somehow falsified or packed with bias if he were talking about the Xbox One, so we have to be a bit fair minded about this. That said, it isn't all that suspicious or unheard of that devs simply wouldn't have final dev kits, but simply have final hardware encased in something resembling a PC, even with it being this close to launch.
Click to expand...
But IGN had a retail PS4 in their position, they even made a video with it. I think they even had a 15 minute demo of Knack running on a PS4. I'm at work, so I can't look the video up
 
B

bigboss370

Member
Mobius1 said:
So you're saying every person at IGN happens to have the same bias? Or by 'IGN' did you just mean Scott Lowe?

Look, I'm not defending the guy, or IGN for that matter. The place has plenty of problems. But console fanboyism isn't one that I saw.
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ooh, now i'm curious. do tell. i'll even take a PM :p
 
M

Mobius1

Member
Latvian Hitman said:
It wasn't just silly, it came across as disingenuous.

Then once it was made clear in his feed that devkits were used for both consoles at GC, he shifted his "concern" to the form factor.
Click to expand...

It seemed to me 'form factor' was always the concern. There was no claim that the games won't run. You're right though, the statement was made in an inflammatory and intentionally vague way.

In any case, I think you're confusing ignorance for malice.
 
P

Penguins&PolarBears

Member
I don't think this means much myself, but I find it hilarious to think about how different the responses here would be if it was Xbox One instead of PS4.

People certainly wouldn't be attacking IGN, that's for sure. With the whole Lococycle E3 scandal fresh in my memory the double standard here is just incredible.
 
B

Breemin

Member
benny_a said:
How do you know? How can you tell?

Compared to how you can know and how you can tell with the PS4. Where it's very easy to distinguish.
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People are basing this off of splash screens they see when booting or after a crash or what not. Those are also in Dev kits btw...
 
P

Prince Vultan

Banned
I don't think I'll bother with PS4 now. Using devkits to show games pre-release in this day and age is fucking shocking, and not something I'm prepared to financially show approval of.

Might as well go back to playing video games on cave walls... which is probably something Sony would like us to do as well!
 
S

SniperHunter

Banned
SenjutsuSage said:
You gotta be kidding me.... The code may not be as optimized as a developer wants or needs it to be for release, but final hardware regularly runs unfinished code.
Click to expand...

I thought retail consoles couldn't run non gold discs, due to the usual anti piracy measures and all. Maybe the operating system isn't finished yet? who knows?
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
Mobius1 said:
It seemed to me 'form factor' was always the concern. There was no claim that the games won't run. You're right though, the statement was made in an inflammatory and intentionally vague way.

In any case, I think you're confusing ignorance for malice.
Click to expand...

We're talking about a senior editor at one of the most visible gaming sites in the world. Either one is bad.
 
B

beast786

Member
benny_a said:
How do you know? How can you tell?

Compared to how you can know and how you can tell with the PS4. Where it's very easy to distinguish.
Click to expand...

Because he knows more than Albert Penello, as its obvious that Penello comment of not finalized was outdated.
 
B

Breemin

Member
Penguins&PolarBears said:
I don't think this means much myself, but I find it hilarious to think about how different the responses here would be if it was Xbox One instead of PS4.

People certainly wouldn't be attacking IGN, that's for sure. With the whole Lococycle E3 scandal fresh in my memory the double standard here is just incredible.
Click to expand...

I think back then the hatred because of the DRM policies escalated things.
 
S

Skeff

Member
SenjutsuSage said:
I see people jumping all over the guy, but if it's true that he has yet to see anything running on a system that even remotely resembles the PS4 final retail appearance, then that is something worth reporting, considering that, on the flip side, multiple titles have been seen running on nothing but retail Xbox One units. I'm quite certain the stuff he sees running is on PS4 dev kits, , but if he truly hasn't seen what he claims, and supposedly others from IGN share the same view, then it's something that should be reported.

I don't think people would be treating his reporting as somehow falsified or packed with bias if he were talking about the Xbox One, so we have to be a bit fair minded about this. That said, it isn't all that suspicious or unheard of that devs simply wouldn't have final dev kits, but simply have final hardware encased in something resembling a PC, even with it being this close to launch.
Click to expand...

but xb1 games aren't on final retail hardware either, Albert Penello used the phrase "near-final" meaning it was also most likely a Devkit, as of right now, both companies are in the same position showing games on Devkits.

Albert Penello said:
Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello
Click to expand...

It's not a big deal either way, the only reason it was made a big deal of at E3 is because some titles were running on vastly over powered nVidia hardware.

I'd like to think if he said he hasn't seen a retail xb1 running games and only using devkits then this would also be met with derision.
 
D

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
So what he's saying is that he's played games on the actual XB1 console, but all PS4 games he's played have been running on devkits?

Cool story, bro.
 
M

maverick40

Junior Member
Prince Vultan said:
I don't think I'll bother with PS4 now. Using devkits to show games pre-release in this day and age is fucking shocking, and not something I'm prepared to financially show approval of.

Might as well go back to playing video games on cave walls... which is probably something Sony would like us to do as well!
Click to expand...

qqX04.gif
 
S

sechsterangriff

Member
Prince Vultan said:
I don't think I'll bother with PS4 now. Using devkits to show games pre-release in this day and age is fucking shocking, and not something I'm prepared to financially show approval of.

Might as well go back to playing video games on cave walls... which is probably something Sony would like us to do as well!
Click to expand...
My sarcasm meter is broken...
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Penguins&PolarBears said:
People certainly wouldn't be attacking IGN, that's for sure. With the whole Lococycle E3 scandal fresh in my memory the double standard here is just incredible.
Click to expand...
Double standard?

PS4 games running on PS4 devkits at trade shows.
XB1 game running on Windows 7 SLI Titan setup.

Seems more like false equivalence.
 
G

Gestault

Member
benny_a said:
So according to your interpretation of this thread, Sony isn't running the games shown at the Sony booth on PS4 hardware but Microsoft was running games over 2 months ago already on final hardware?

That doesn't seem consistent with Albert Penello saying that there is no final hardware yet, only near-final hardware. (His post was made post-GC.)
Also doesnt seem consistent with what Scott Lowe says, if you have to use him as the basis for your argument, as he clarified he was talking about PS4 devkits all along and was just confused when calling them PCs. (My editorial of the 11 hour late revelation.)
Click to expand...

My point is that this tweet was motivated by someone seeing people being very concerned at an earlier point that games were being shown off in a mixture of dev-kits and PCs supposedly running at spec'd detail settings, so the author assumed that the same thing being true at a much later point would be newsworthy to his audience. Again, I was answering someone's question of why he would even post something like this.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Gestault said:
If you look after where you bolded my quote, you'll see I made reference to how the hardware wasn't actually final. My point is that this tweet was motivated by someone seeing people being very concerned at an earlier point that games were being shown off in a mixture of dev-kits and PCs supposedly running at spec'd detail settings, so the author assumed that the same thing being true at a much later point would be newsworthy to his audience. Again, I was answering someone's question of why he would even post something like this.
Click to expand...
I don't feel this post addresses any of the questions I raised in mine.

How is the situation at E3 and now equivalent for first-party titles, which is what Scott Lowe talks about in his posts on twitter.

EoBT9vi.png

AZhsP5E.png


I can see where it would be exactly the same if he didn't 11 hours later correct himself that he didn't mean "PCs" but "PS4 devkits", when he said "PCs".
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
DrM said:
It will be quite crowded at MS with all this "journos" competing for their dream job.
Click to expand...

This was posted on 8/1/13.

http://majornelson.com/2013/08/01/l...ick-ass-team-to-help-lead-us-into-the-future/

Have you wondered what it would be like to work in one of the coolest jobs on the West coast? Actually, two of the coolest jobs on the West Coast that have just opened up as full-time positions on my team. (One and Two) This is a rare and unique opportunity to join me, Major Nelson, and the Xbox Community team as we blaze new trails and I want you on this team!

Interested? Read the official job descriptions here and here. If you’ve held these reins before, and one of these roles scream you, APPLY NOW via the MSFT Careers Page.

Knock us out. Show us your innovation. Show us why you are different.

OK, go!
Click to expand...
 
B

beast786

Member
Gestault said:
My point is that this tweet was motivated by someone seeing people being very concerned at an earlier point that games were being shown off in a mixture of dev-kits and PCs supposedly running at spec'd detail settings, so the author assumed that the same thing being true at a much later point would be newsworthy to his audience. Again, I was answering someone's question of why he would even post something like this.
Click to expand...

No, people were concern because it was running on PC version, not the dev-kit XB1 games. Stop mixing it up .

Why cant you get that simple concept.
 
L

lherre

Accurate
SenjutsuSage said:
You gotta be kidding me.... The code may not be as optimized as a developer wants or needs it to be for release, but final hardware regularly runs unfinished code.
Click to expand...

But retail consoles can't run unsigned code ... only test and devkits units (tool units)
 
lifa-cobex

lifa-cobex

Member
Some concerning news: Scott Lowe thinks size matters in tech development.

So I take it he spent a day reading about computer development on the web to achieve this outstanding cause for concern.
 
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