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[inherendo]

I'm not butt hurt. The last sentence was in response to my replier. I didn't call him stupid. He's the one that pretty much called me stupid by telling me I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. But whatever.

The rest of my post was stating that there is no reason why the ps4's form factor wouldn't work, just that it might be quite audible under full load since it is a pretty small form factor.

 

[Kun Aguero]

Shouldn't Arthur backing someone up automatically discredit the source?

Pretty much, neither of them have an agenda.....Honestly!

 

[kidhero1000]

Man, this is hilarious. How hard is it for these people to just verify these things or even know anything about the subject they're talking about before they vomit from their mouth? I mean, christ. That interview with Cerny... and STILL he says this?

It's just another one of those

IGN moments.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Polygon and IGN's recent agenda is so transparent it is pathetic.

Sony's engineering shouldn't be questioned. Even the original fat PS3 didn't have a power brick and none of the PS3 consoles ever had issues with overheating.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Excellent points, George. I guess this is why GAF is so disliked by so many sites.



No wonder many on GAF stay away from these sites.

If you've seen the documentary GA, the game industry looks at GAF like a cuddly bear. Interesting from afar, but capable of mauling you if you screw up. Why do you think Albert Penello from MS has been here since E3 doing damage control? GAF has that kind of influence.

 

[Chaplain]

Are you serious? I think you're being a bit naive if you are. The "whole purpose" of a gaming site like IGN is to drive traffic for their ads, or other forms of income, so they can make money and stay in business. Their livelihoods are also directly tied to having relationships with the MS's and Sony's of the world so they can quickly and cheaply produce their content. The line between press and PR isn't just blurred in this industry; it's barely there at all. No journalist worth anything would agree to do a filtered and controlled "Xbox One AMA" like IGN did if they were concerned about maintaining distance and credibility. IGN is an "entertainment" site, and nothing more. If anyone enjoys their videos and content, that's fine (I myself listen to Beyond and only recently stopped listening to Unlocked due to the incompetence of the hosting), but don't be fooled; IGN is not the place to go to find honest, consumer focused reporting. If anything, they are in the service of the games industry.

Most consumers of video game press don't think about these things though, and that's why sites like IGN keep trucking along. There's no credibility check, because by and large, people don't care. They just want to get excited about games and have people reinforce their opinions about their purchases. IGN's only concern is to drive revenue and get clicks.

Interesting point of view.

So, IGN is not here to be honest or credible for their readers, but just to get paid by whatever means necessary.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I'm not butt hurt. The last sentence was in response to my replier. I didn't call him stupid. He's the one that pretty much called me stupid by telling me I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. But whatever.

The rest of my post was stating that there is no reason why the ps4's form factor wouldn't work, just that it might be quite audible under full load since it is a pretty small form factor.

You didn't call him stupid, you called him an idiot. It's in your post.

 

[kaching]

There's nothing like a "close race" narrative to put butts in seats, so to speak. So I wouldn't really think IGN's intent is to specifically distort things in favor of the Xbox because they're biased towards that platform, just that it makes a better narrative for the sake of clicks to make it seem like the XBO is doing a lot better at closing the gap than reality may actually confirm.

 

[Rustle Da Jimmies]

There's nothing like a "close race" narrative to put butts in seats, so to speak. So I wouldn't really think IGN's intent is to specifically distort things in favor of the Xbox because they're biased towards that platform, just that it makes a better narrative for the sake of clicks to make it seem like the XBO is doing a lot better at closing the gap than reality may actually confirm.

So it's Edge vs IGN then,

Both biased for each respective console.

Spoiler

jk, don't really care for console warz

 

[tensuke]

PS4 has GATTACA pre-loaded onto HDD confirmed?!

Spoiler

/s

If this was was the menu music on PS4, I wouldn't even be mad if it was the size of an elephant.

 

[Mobius1]

Excellent points, George. I guess this is why GAF is so disliked by so many sites.

No wonder many on GAF stay away from these sites.

Unfortunately this isn't particular to the gaming industry, this is how media works in general. Political news shows, websites, newspapers, heck even PBS exists because companies want to buy their advertising slots.

 

[Chaplain]

If you've seen the documentary GA, the game industry looks at GAF like a cuddly bear. Interesting from afar, but capable of mauling you if you screw up. Why do you think Albert Penello from MS has been here since E3 doing damage control? GAF has that kind of influence.

I think the same thing when I see Albert post. He was just sent here for damage control because GAF called out MS and it had devastating effects on their brand and image.

just that it makes a better narrative for the sake of clicks to make it seem like the XBO is doing a lot better at closing the gap than reality may actually confirm.

So, it's a work like pro wrestling? Meaning, the writers at IGN are paid by companies to preach their Gospels (what to say and what to think)?

 

[Persona7]

Polygon and IGN's recent agenda is so transparent it is pathetic.

Sony's engineering shouldn't be questioned. Even the original fat PS3 didn't have a power brick and none of the PS3 consoles ever had issues with overheating.

All three sony consoles have had minor to major technical issues.

 

[Nibiru]

I played the ps4 this past weekend at Fanexpo Canada in Toronto I don't know what this guy is talking about.

 

[ToyBroker]

There's nothing like a "close race" narrative to put butts in seats, so to speak. So I wouldn't really think IGN's intent is to specifically distort things in favor of the Xbox because they're biased towards that platform, just that it makes a better narrative for the sake of clicks to make it seem like the XBO is doing a lot better at closing the gap than reality may actually confirm.

To IGN's (the actual organization) credit, it was just a tweet. Not like it was some massive article on IGN.

Either way, I think we can all agree after all the evidence supplied in this thread (the prize being the Cerny interview) that this dude is straight dumb and made his tweet just to cause a mini-mess today.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

There are a lot of personal attacks going on over this. I’m struggling to understand what’s actually going bad here. If it’s simply just that the Scott Lowe was pointing out that the games shown so far haven’t been shown on final silicon then it’s a valid thing to point out right?

The implication in his feed is that we should be "concerned" about this. I'm not sure what his reasoning is. There's nothing unusual or concerning about devkits being the only working hardware present at a trade show months before a new hardware launch.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Interesting point of view.

So, IGN is not here to be honest or credible for their readers, but just get paid by what ever means necessary.

They still ostensibly need the readers, because the readers are there for the ads, which is where I imagine the majority of the revenue comes from. But it behooves IGN to toe the line when it comes to reporting. Too much positivity toward one company or the other and you risk driving away readers, or maybe more troubling, future revenue from advertising from an MS or a Sony, or a game publisher for that matter. I don't think honesty and credibility are a major concern as long as the readers are happy to keep clicking.

I'm also not claiming and conspiracy or behind the scenes dealings here, or that a bias is apparent to me. I'm only saying that IGN is a business, and making money trumps good journalism any day of the week. Hell, Miley Cyrus just proved even websites like CNN aren't necessarily about delivering the news when driving traffic is a concern.

 

[BlackClouds]

Gaming journalism. The only reason why this isn't worst than fox news is that real lives are affected. This is just about some unimportant hobby. Still disgusting nontheless.

 

[GeoramA]

Stupid job. I'm missing way too many of these awesome threads.

 

[RedAssedApe]

All three sony consoles have had minor to major technical issues.

curious what is considered a minor/major issue? Only thing I can think of is YLOD and that was within failure spec for electronics IIRC?

 

[hipbabboom]

If you click on the link to twitter, it shows that he was contrasting it with the Xbox One where he claimed it was running on "Xbox One units"

He changed his argument from "PCs" to "PS4 devkits" 11 hours later, but the initial comparison was between Sony using PCs to demo their games at their own booth and Microsoft using "Xbox One units."

What's the distinction between Xbox One units and PS4 devkits that caused him to write any of his posts?

Given that there is no way to visually differentiate a Xbox One devkit and a Xbox One consumer model. Especially not at trade-shows where physical access is restricted.

To me it's the same then. If you're charitable you can say it's because he is concerned about the thermal profile of the PS4.
But he already asked this question to lead architect Mark Cerny and got an answer in an interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsl6zmPMje4&t=6m45s

I see. I interpreted his assertion to mean that XB1 was using final silicon and PS4 dev kits were still running spec'ed PC guts. I suppose the change from PC to "dev kit" could be seen either as a cover-up or a clarification. While I tend to not fall on either the side of blind skepticism to avoid flying of the handle now or being disappointed later just to avoid the sort of reactions I see here, I would be interested to understand how he came to the conclusion PS4 dev kits may not be using final silicon (knowing this is even may be my own misinterpretation of the situation).

The implication in his feed is that we should be "concerned" about this. I'm not sure what his reasoning is. There's nothing unusual or concerning about devkits being the only working hardware present at a trade show months before a new hardware launch.[/QUOTE]

While I agree with this, even on these forums, there was a lot of people unhappy with the idea that some XB1 games were running on PC's back at E3.

Just to be clear about my assumptions here, I'll list how I imagine these hardware boxes are being classified:

• PC: After market PC components running none-custom OS / PC build of games
• Dev Kits PC : After market PC components running custom OS
• Dev Kit running final Silicon: Final hardware

Either way, if he was pointing this out as feedback to the public reaction to XB1, though it could certainly be suspect as to what his true motivations were, it still seems like something the community might want to know. He really clarify what he means by PC/Dev Kits. It may hopefully calm the people who are so upset with him.

 

[Tamanon]

All three sony consoles have had minor to major technical issues.

Every console in existence has had "minor to major" technical issues.

 

[Mobius1]

Interesting point of view.

So, IGN is not here to be honest or credible for their readers, but just to get paid by whatever means necessary.

Yes and no. Again, from my experience working there, when I reviewed a product I was never told to soften my criticism. Companies are generally happy just to get some exposure, regardless of the tone of the review. On the other hand, I did have my writing censored because a company complained about a news blurb I wrote. It's not black and white.

 

[Chaplain]

Unfortunately this isn't particular to the gaming industry, this is how media works in general. Political news shows, websites, newspapers, heck even PBS exists because companies want to buy their advertising slots.

They still ostensibly need the readers, because the readers are there for the ads, which is where I imagine the majority of the revenue comes from. But it behooves IGN to toe the line when it comes to reporting. Too much positivity toward one company or the other and you risk driving away readers, or maybe more troubling, future revenue from advertising from an MS or a Sony, or a game publisher for that matter. I don't think honesty and credibility are a major concern as long as the readers are happy to keep clicking.

I'm also not claiming and conspiracy or behind the scenes dealings here, or that a bias is apparent to me. I'm only saying that IGN is a business, and making money trumps good journalism any day of the week. Hell, Miley Cyrus just proved even websites like CNN aren't necessarily about delivering the news when driving traffic is a concern.

Well, both of you sure point to a gloomy situation for ethics in the media and our industry. Hopefully someone steps in and stands up for the consumer at some point.

Yes and no. Again, from my experience working there, when I reviewed a product I was never told to soften my criticism. Companies are generally happy just to get some exposure, regardless of the tone of the review. On the other hand, I did have my writing censored because a company complained about a news blurb I wrote. It's not black and white.

Ty for your honesty, Mobius. Did you say something to your editor about being censored?

 

[Canis lupus]

Man, this is hilarious. How hard is it for these people to just verify these things or even know anything about the subject they're talking about before they vomit from their mouth? I mean, christ. That interview with Cerny... and STILL he says this?

Dat 15 minute fame, these people know their controversial tweets will be picked on by gamesites and will proceed to post anything without checking twice and verifying what the fuck they're about to tweet.

 

[kaching]

So, it's a work like pro wrestling?

More like media coverage of any modern US presidential race.

To IGN's (the actual organization) credit, it was just a tweet. Not like it was some massive article on IGN.

Agree, but I was commenting in a broader sense, inclusive of some of their other activity that's being discussed in this thread now (the "AMA", etc.).

 

[ndawgdrake]

People do realize modern day gaming laptops with much more powerful specs than the PS4 can have a smaller footprint than the PS4?

 

[ToyBroker]

More like media coverage of any modern US presidential race.

Agree, but I was commenting in a broader sense, inclusive of some of their other activity that's being discussed in this thread now (the "AMA", etc.).

I hear ya dude.

Don't have to convince me that IGN is a bunch of monkeys drumming on keyboards.

 

[kidhero1000]

I think the same thing when I see Albert post. He was just sent here for damage control because GAF called out MS and it had devastating effects on their brand and image.



So, it's a work like pro wrestling? Meaning, the writers at IGN are paid by companies to preach their Gospels (what to say and what to think)?

It is their job

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Unfortunately this isn't particular to the gaming industry, this is how media works in general. Political news shows, websites, newspapers, heck even PBS exists because companies want to buy their advertising slots.

Nailed it.

Not enough people stop to think about the implications of this.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I see. I interpreted his assertion to mean that XB1 was using final silicon and PS4 dev kits were still running spec'ed PC guts. I suppose the change from PC to "dev kit" could be seen either as a cover-up or a clarification. While I tend to not fall on either the side of blind skepticism to avoid flying of the handle now or being disappointed later just to avoid the sort of reactions I see here, I would be interested to understand how he came to the conclusion PS4 dev kits may not be using final silicon (knowing this is even may be my own misinterpretation of the situation).

I didn't understand it in that matter for what it's worth. Sounded to me like he was claiming that Sony games were just running on PCs, which would be bad. But in reality, we're talking about devkits. Either someone pointed this out to him for his subsequent tweet, or he simply equates the two, which are absolutely not the same thing (They are PS4 hardware with additional components and software used for development). Maybe he didn't intend to create an uproar, but I likewise don't think he intended to imply anything about "not final silicon." I think that kind of tech understanding is giving him too him too much credit given how fast and loose he's using the terminology.

 

[sono]

IGN re gamescom - where is the proof of what you are saying,

Did you consider what Sony might do if you are proved wrong ?

 

[tensuke]

People do realize modern day gaming laptops with much more powerful specs than the PS4 can have a smaller footprint than the PS4?

No that's impossible, PS4 is just too small, no way Sony can manage it.

 

[Chaplain]

It is their job

I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree that these type of sites should be trusted if they are not going to be honest with their readers.

 

[Alchemist]

You are completely right.

I'll post it again because I love this.
Here is the guy from the OP. IGN's Scott Lowe, getting this exact thing explained to him by Mark Cerny himself.

This is hilarious.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Yes and no. Again, from my experience working there, when I reviewed a product I was never told to soften my criticism. Companies are generally happy just to get some exposure, regardless of the tone of the review.

Shit. Is assume somehow, somewhere, people are thanking Billy Ray for making Hank Hill relevant again..no softening there!

 

[Audioboxer]

No one in the industry can fuck with detective GAF. You're pretty much tieing your own noose if you post BS in the gaming world.

 

[dubq]

lol that's some crack gaming journalism from Scott Lowe and his wife Arthur Gies.

 

[recklesscognition]

What is the big deal 3 months out? That they won't be able to manage heat, or cram everything in the case? Like they seriously designed that without trying to fit everything in?

 

[Mobius1]

Ty for your honesty, Mobius. Did you say something to your editor about being censored?

I should have said something but I didn't. I wasn't a full-time employee, and it wasn't even the editor that censored the article but the director (basically a senior employee that was friends with the owner) that oversaw several areas of the site. By then I was pretty disillusioned with the whole 'gaming journalist' career and saw it as another nail in the coffin.

 

[Darklor01]

Microsoft could have made a much smaller console. They chose the large size and look because they wanted it to belong in consumer's media center, less fan noise, and better airflow. Think of your A/V receiver. It has all the extra room when you look through the vents. That allows for passive cooling. Obviously, the next gen consoles will generate much more heat, but you get the point.

Not sure how quiet the ps4 will be since it is so small. The fan will probably spin at very high rpm and generate noticeable noise under load. Do I think the cooling system will work? Yes. Look at the ITX form factor. It can fit a normal size GPU and still have adequate cooling. The apu used by both companies have much lower TDP than chips used in standard desktops and that is why the ps4 can be so small.

Actually, it's been documented that the power consumption is lower than previous generations, and that this set up will create less heat, and can fit in a smaller casing due to this. No one has cracked the case and posted info about the actual air flow and cooling needs/design for this set up to my knowledge. Stating anything about heat without knowing the actual casing/airflow design and cooling needs for the PS4 seems a bit misinformative/disingenuous.

 

[JawzPause]

Mods should close this thread, IGN are getting fucking more ridiculous as the days go by.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Well, both of you sure point to a gloomy situation for ethics in the media and our industry. Hopefully someone steps in and stands up for the consumer at some point.

I'm with you there. I had hoped Polygon was going to end up being a more high-brow, taking games and reviews more seriously, sort if site, but boy was I wrong there. Still waiting for something new to come along that really does feel consumer focused. Giant Bomb is generally who I trust the most given that they're largely membership driven, and I think that could be a good model for better journalism, but they also advocate strongly for not taking reviews seriously and some members certainly have their biases.

All I think you can do right now is try your best to get to know the personality of writers out there and try to find a few who seem genuine. Follow them enough and you'll get a feel for how far you can trust them on various topics.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

Mods should close this thread, IGN are getting fucking more ridiculous as the day goes by.

Come on man, they're a legitimate news organisation now, they're even branching out to updates of the English Dictionary.

 

[operon]

Man, this is hilarious. How hard is it for these people to just verify these things or even know anything about the subject they're talking about before they vomit from their mouth? I mean, christ. That interview with Cerny... and STILL he says this?

Why verify stuff when you can post drivel and just watch the bait clicks coming in. There is a recession out there integrity goes out the window to get bread on the table. Console launches don't come every day

 

[Mononoke]

Well, both of you sure point to a gloomy situation for ethics in the media and our industry. Hopefully someone steps in and stands up for the consumer at some point.

 

[Satchel]

While I love how small the PS4 is, I'll be surprised if they can keep it cool AND quiet. I hope so because the WiiU is pretty decently loud, but my PS3 Slim and 360S are really nice and quiet.

From all reports the Xbox Oe can't be heard at all, so ill take that size if I know I won't hear from it.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Unfortunately this isn't particular to the gaming industry, this is how media works in general. Political news shows, websites, newspapers, heck even PBS exists because companies want to buy their advertising slots.

When you have development contracts talking about hitting a particular metacritic score, all hope is lost.
How can you even have impartial opinions, when outlets are blocked of certain games because of past reviews or articles?

 

[Portugeezer]

Ask Scott Lowe how Microsofts anus tastes.

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

I never really understood the hang-up with this. As long as the games look and run as advertised then who cares what they previewed the software on?