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[TechnicPuppet]

I'll state my opinion whenever I want thank you very much. It it makes you mad then #dealwithit

This is a gaming forum. If you don't like to hear people's feelings towards companies in the gaming industry then maybe this forum isn't for you...

I'm not mad, feel free to say whatever you want. I am not a mod.

I am free to call you out for your obvious agenda also though.

 

[Biker19]

Well they are. Most companies can't face the backlash MS faced, then reverse policy, and still sellout of their new product.

The fact that demand is still so high for X1 after all that's happened proves his statement.

The fact that people how bought the launch 360 and got red ringed and will still buy a launh X1 proves that.

Yup. MS will be just fine. People are willing to forgive and forget pretty easily these days. I mean they released a broken console last gen and still came out fine. This reversal will have little to no effect in the long run because in the grand scheme of things who cares really other than internet. People will forget and stop caring about it within the year.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You guys think that people will just all of a sudden forget about DRM, etc. very easily by snapping their fingers & go, "poof!".

The news about it has spread everywhere, more than just gaming messageboards.

Refer back to this post here.

 

[udiie]

I'm responding to this because it is a well thought out and sensible post.
*great post*

Nail on the head man. Nothing will ever be good enough anymore.

 

[xxracerxx]

The point is MS never actually did the things that some people now hate them for. They said they were going to, suffered a backlash and reversed it.

So all is forgiven because they saw their pre-order numbers were low and reversed the policies? I surely hope not, they still have a lot to prove with this new console and I am looking forward to them doing so. Be it good or bad.

 

[Mentok]

If you read it carefully, he's talking about being reactive aka 180's and also delivering both digital and physical across all titles, that's just my interpretation but I'm sure everyone's going to run with the "Enviable" part and take it to whatever context keeps us on the Xbox One bash-fest.


"As a business, the minute we don’t listen to our customers attentively, and adapt and react in an appropriate way, then we would be in a dangerous place. I love the fact that we are reactive and agile in that way. We remain true to our vision – digitally and physically – and we are genuinely in an enviable position versus anyone else in being able to deliver that. I wouldn’t trade places with anybody.

Exactly. People are going to quote out of context for the sake of MS bashing, but the reality is that they changed their console from consumer response (pre-order figures count as consumer response). I don't understand how people expect an apology from all of this. They did not force these policy changes onto an existing product people have bought, these were policies for a yet-to-be-released console. As a corporation, they saw the pre-order numbers, heard the fan outcries, and made changes to remedy the situation.

People are acting as though that is a bad thing. Now they're doing their PR tours to clarify all the 180s that have been made, to make the console (and the company) appealing to those they may have lost. Whether they should have had the original policies to begin with, is an entirely different argument. The idea that it's "too late" for these changes is ridiculous. These consoles haven't even launched yet.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Well, since the XBone reveal, there are enough reasons why people are pissed off (including myself)
So you can defend them all you want (see everyone of your posts). But don't act like like there is no reason to dislike them.

That is a blatant lie and I will thank you not to misrepresent me. For a start my first post on this very thread was saying they were wrong and the reverses had hurt them.

 

[level44]

I'm not mad, feel free to say whatever you want. I am not a mod.

I am free to call you out for your obvious agenda also though.

Read 'Koopathecasuals' quote. Then you'll understand the way i and many others feel. I'm not going to magically praise MS when there's nothing to praise.

 

[Elios83]

Honestly what is he supposed to say?
"Yes we have been fatally wounded by our incompetence and we're going to lose next gen?"
It's obvious that he has to act confident although they're not in an enviable position being the ones with the most expensive box with a less powerful hardware. And all the mess ups they have done since May have hurt their reputation although that is not the major problem. Their value proposition is.

 

[EGM1966]

I don't think you understand what that word means. Bias means that we would be absolving Sony of any recent negative news, policies, or statements. The last "negative" thing Sony did was declare multiplayer would be pay-walled, with the reasoning to match the robust online gaming experience offered on competing platforms (dedicated servers). Even that piece of news was met with a fair share of hostility. That was months ago. Since then, Sony has been almost completely free of missteps. So much so that people are actually beginning to get suspicious, and waiting for the day Sony drops bad news. But there simply is no bad news to drop.

There is no Sony "bias". MS just gives a lot more opportunities to heckle and jeer at. If you can't understand the difference, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

EDIT: I hope people aren't honestly arguing for some perverse "False Equivalence" to be enforced here on GAF. This ain't CNN.

Nicely put - amazing some people can't see that poor MS statements/activity is what is being attacked not MS. Likewise if Sony seems to be getting it praise it's for what they're doing not just because.

I would fully expect Gaf to react vice versa when appropriate and historically that's what I've always seen (the obvious biased member excluded of course).

Gaf is gaming focused and is obviously going to praise pro-gaming news and be negative to news generally perceived as negative. Not sure what else people would expect on here.

 

[Winterblink]

I love how they try to convince people they remain true to their original vision, after so many major reversals.

 

[Shawn30]

I'm responding to this because it is a well thought out and sensible post.

Look, I have no skin in the game and I have been gaming for a really long time. With that said, I'm buying all consoles. Call me crazy, but um a gamer.

Now, the problem with expecting an apology from microsoft, and why I feel it is petty, is because there was nothing they did that was anti-consumer. "Anti-consumer" gets tossed around a lot lately and the reality is: Microsoft has been open and transparent about their consoles features from the get-go. People woukdnt be ranting if they had nothing to rant about.

A second reality: no one ever forced anyone to buy the damn thing. In fact, people are Pissed about a product that just went into manufacturing. People should really give this a thought. The product MS IS releasing is based off the feedback from consumer.

Yet, they can do no right. Alternatively, they could have kept everything the same and reversed nothing. Still, reversals are not good enough, right? Drop the price...drop the Kinect...etc

People here are acting like they are victims here. Like they have no choice. I keep reading mockery over "consumer choice".

It's really simple, if people don't like a product, no one ever forces their hand to make a purchase. That IS the consumer choice. We live in a capitalist society. A company need not apologize for a product that has yet to be manufactured and delivered to a customer. This is absolutely mind boggling to me. I do not recall Sony ever apologizing for their mishaps, Nd believe me there were mishaps (my identity and credit card information being exposed for one). Apologies are not going to make or break the next 8 years in gaming. the cconsumers choice will.

Anti consumer infers that consumers did not have the material information needed to make an informed decision. Somehow, many here like to insert their own definition.

Edit: I actually do remember the extended bow by Sony execs for the psn troubles, but false equivalency here as the Xbox one had yet to be released

First time poster, long-time lurker - Just had to respond and say thank you for saying what you did the way you did. As a older gamer, one who's seen both sides of the coin in terms of companies and their polices, practices, and shady dealings - what you said was absolutely correct. Support whatever system you like best, but when people walk around like MS released the Xbox One already and there were so many hidden things about it, it comes off fanboyish even when they try to sound reasonable. MS told you what they wanted to do in full. Gamers told them we don't want that. MS decided to change to please gamers. This was all done months before the systems release. I just don't get how we demonize them beyond words for changing before the product comes out. We demonize them for responding to bad sales with a change in tune. We demonize them because they had the nerve to tell us why their vision of the digital future was best and what their polices were long before you actually had the system in your hands. Its been widely reported Sony was about to use many of the same practices, just did their 180 much sooner, lol.

I'm buying a Xbox One day one for my own reasons, and while I hold no allusions that MS is the most innocent company ever, lol, they are far from the image I see a ton of people here describing. If Sony can be forgiven for all the crap they've done and at least given the benefit of the doubt that they have changed, why not MS? Food for thought, IMHO.

 

[w00zey]

Sometimes I feel like microsoft says the wrong things when trying to say the right things. So they are correct in that they were able to be nimble. This is a good thing to be in business and I'm impressed microsoft didn't tell us to shove it or just stay mum and not change. They shouldn't call it an enviable position because nobody is envying them having to make reversals.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Read 'Koopathecasuals' quote. Then you'll understand the way i and many others feel. I'm not going to magically praise MS when there's nothing to praise.

You don't need to praise them. Or even say anything remotely nice, constructive would be better though in my own opinion.

 

[Vizzeh]

The idea that it's "too late" for these changes is ridiculous. These consoles haven't even launched yet.

I think it shows what kind of company they are and what they were trying to do, MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1.

As for it being too late because they haven't even launched, It doesnt mean catching a friend about to steal your stuff, before they actually do it, they BS you and say they changed their mind anyway...well thats okay you can continue to be my friend

 

[Shosai]

I think it shows what kind of company they are and what they were trying to do, MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1.

As for it being too late because they haven't even launched, It doesnt mean catching a friend about to steal your stuff, before they actually do it, they BS you and say they changed their mind anyway...well thats okay you can continue to be my friend

Well, at least you didn't compare their digital plan to rape.

That said, you do realize that Sony also pays for exclusives, right?

 

[apana]

Why is the guarantee even necessary? If you are so worried that Microsoft is an evil corporation, don't buy the X1. This isn't hard.

I am not worried that Microsoft is an evil corporation, I am sure they are very nice people. I am worried that they may reinstitute a policy that they just announced and then backed away from a few months ago. If not with this console then with future consoles. I have many more options available me than simply buying or not buying a product. I can also complain, so why wouldn't I?

 

[PhatSaqs]

They shouldn't call it an enviable position because nobody is envying them having to make reversals.

But the remark had nothing to do with having to make reversals....

 

[level44]

You don't need to praise them. Or even say anything remotely nice, constructive would be better though in my own opinion.

There's no need to say anything else.
I hope MS do get bitten in the ass this gen because [thread title].

I'm not writing a whole essay detailing why, I'd been here until Christmas. Done.

 

[gogosox8]

I understand that the general consensus is that Microsoft can do no good going into this upcoming generation, but, really, they've done everything you would want a corporation to do when faced with consumer backlash. They've listened, they've made changes, and they're ensuring to communicate that this is how they are going to operate moving forward.

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

Make good first party games is really the only thing they can do since its the only thing that matters really. If they do that, then people will come back. Look at Sony, they were in a similar position as MS was but they won people back by making good games that you can only get on the PS3.

 

[.GqueB.]

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You guys think that people will just all of a sudden forget about DRM, etc. very easily. This news has not just spread all around gaming messageboards, either.

Refer back to this post here.

I just don't have faith in the average consumer. In most cases, they forgive, forget, and move on. The fact that they released a broken console last gen didn't hurt them much, why would this? A friend of mine had his 360 redring on him three times and he's still not hesitating to give this company more money.

There are just so many issues that have come up in the past when it comes to this stuff that are non-issues now for me to believe people are going to stay mad over this whole thing. Consumers care up until the point where they simply stop caring just "because". It happens all the time. I see no reason why this will be any different.

 

[Slurmer]

The reversals won't hurt them, but they are not in an enviable position. Sony does seem to have the momentum per-launch.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Another 180 (from Yoshp's comments).

 

[46w500]

I think it shows what kind of company they are and what they were trying to do, MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1.

How is Sony also not corporate and seeking profitability? I am puzzled by this.

 

[NullPointer]

First time poster, long-time lurker - Just had to respond and say thank you for saying what you did the way you did. As a older gamer, one who's seen both sides of the coin in terms of companies and their polices, practices, and shady dealings - what you said was absolutely correct. Support whatever system you like best, but when people walk around like MS released the Xbox One already and there were so many hidden things about it, it comes off fanboyish even when they try to sound reasonable. MS told you what they wanted to do in full.

The family plan, arguably the number one reason and justification for the phone-home requirement was never fully explained. MS seemed more than happy to have people spinning wild imaginings about how only one out of ten people they knew were going to have to buy a game.

We *still* don't know how it was going to work.

You could also say the same about whatever resale/trade-in system MS was supposed to roll out. What exactly was the process? How many games would actually support it?

So on the point of transparency, no, MS was being vague at best and purposefully shady at worst.

 

[Vizzeh]

Well, at least you didn't compare their digital plan to rape.

That said, you do realize that Sony also pays for exclusives, right?

Yep ofc, but im sure you know as well as I do what my point was regarding Game studios owned and the emphasis on buying exclusives as meaning allot more to X1 than it does PS4

ps...some xbox fans may consider themselves mentally raped considering gamers put the 360 on the pedestal it is/was on and I think most would agree they changed their direction (coming from a previous 360 owner)

 

[Gestault]

Didn't the EU force them to pack in other internet browsers besides IE? I realize that PR is going to PR, but that quote right there is just...yeah.

The extension of this reasoning into hardware is problematic, in the sense that you would infer that a company isn't offering choice for customers unless they promote and distribute the competing companies' products.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Love all the responses from people who didn't read the actual quote and fell for the click bait headline.

We remain true to our vision - digitally and physically - and we are genuinely in an enviable position versus anyone else in being able to deliver that.

Basically just talking about Azure being able to easily provide digital content and services worldwide while MS also has a strong physical retail presence worldwide.

BTW, Xbox One is still dominating preorders at Best Buy.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...646572&add_to_pkg=false&pagetype=listing&gf=y

The console that nobody is supposed to want with games that nobody is supposed to care about are the most preordered at BB, huh? This console is going to be very successful despite what some would like you to believe.

 

[Mentok]

I think it shows what kind of company they are and what they were trying to do, MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1.

As for it being too late because they haven't even launched, It doesnt mean catching a friend about to steal your stuff, before they actually do it, they BS you and say they changed their mind anyway...well thats okay you can continue to be my friend

You're kidding yourself if you think Sony is not "too corporate". The reason the PS4 is so appealing to all of us is because Sony had a good 2-3 years of struggling to get traction with the PS3. They learned from their mistakes and moved on. Its not like Sony said "Screw the money, let's make this console for the gamers", but more "let's focus improvements from gamer feedback to increase revenue". Which is similar to what Microsoft is doing.

I also don't understand the analogy of Microsoft "robbing from you and you catching them". They didn't underhandedly bring out these policies only to be "caught". They publicly announced them. Sure, their explanations of how these policies worked were terrible. A better analogy is your friend saying to you "I'm taking your microwave" with no proper explanation, then you flip out on them, so they say "Ok, fine, forget it".

 

[watership]

There's no need to say anything else.
I hope MS do get bitten in the ass this gen because [thread title].

I'm not writing a whole essay detailing why, I'd been here until Christmas. Done.

Frothy anger.

 

[Vizzeh]

How is Sony also not corporate and seeking profitability? I am puzzled by this.

"MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1."

Its the contrast between the too, at no point did I say Sony are not seeking profitability nor corporate.. there is just a clear difference between both companies. I see it, I wont speak for you but Iv seen alot of other indications that many others think so too.

 

[Enordash]

I am not worried that Microsoft is an evil corporation, I am sure they are very nice people. I am worried that they may reinstitute a policy that they just announced and then backed away from a few months ago. If not with this console then with future consoles. I have many more options available me than simply buying or not buying a product. I can also complain, so why wouldn't I?

I do enjoy a good complain so I guess I can't be too down on what you're doing. They may give it another shot with the next console. Who knows. They will always want to sell their product so they will probably always succumb to the will of the masses on certain points. This next gen console war (that really hasn't even started yet) has got me really sour about the population of gamers in general.

 

[Shawn30]

I think it shows what kind of company they are and what they were trying to do, MS are far too corporate, they would license air if they could. They buy their exclusives, if they were as gamer scentric as Sony I would still own my xbox and would be ordering an X1.

As for it being too late because they haven't even launched, It doesnt mean catching a friend about to steal your stuff, before they actually do it, they BS you and say they changed their mind anyway...well thats okay you can continue to be my friend

Both MS and Sony are entertainment corporations who have gaming divisions that make good and bad choices. It just seems in the haste to hate all things MS, we chose to forget/forgive/it never happened things Sony did. Was Sony gamer centric when they told you to get a second job to afford the system? Was that 699 price tag gamer centric? Was PSN's lackluster performance and hacking issues gamer centric?

No, they happened to be growing pains and lessons learned for doing bad business. Same as MS is doing right now. It sounds better to simply say you don't find the Xbox One a good system with its features and games than to complain that MS is evil, everything they say is wrong, every spokesperson is a PR liar, nothing about their specs is true, all good articals about the system are moneyhats, and Sony loves us like our grandmas. Companies/Corporations are not nice or sweet. They fight for our money, and have to produce a product we want to buy. If they can screw us over, they will. No exceptions. If many of MS's most vocal detractors judged Sony on the basis of things it did and tried to do the way they do MS, no way you would buy a Sony system ever again. But if the company that screwed up fixes things and you find you like the fixes and the product, you'll buy it. I don't have to purchase anything I don't want too, nor do I expect these companies to be anything more than what the evidence shows they have done or tried to do. I want them to fight for my money, and if that means they have to change a bad practice, do it. That in my opinion is a good thing. Far better than to pridefully refuse to change a overprices system and just expect people to buy it simply because of the name the way Sony did with the PS3 than to look at feedback and the numbers and change months before release like MS did.

 

[dose]

The console that nobody is supposed to want with games that nobody is supposed to care about are the most preordered at BB, huh? This console is going to be very successful despite what some would like you to believe.

Nothing to do with the fact that you can't actually preorder PS4s now as they're sold out?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Video-G...pe=REDIRECT&issolr=1&searchterm=playstation 4

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Love all the responses from people who didn't read the actual quote and fell for the click bait headline.



Basically just talking about Azure being able to easily provide digital content and services worldwide while MS also has a strong physical retail presence worldwide.

BTW, Xbox One is still dominating preorders at Best Buy.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...646572&add_to_pkg=false&pagetype=listing&gf=y

The console that nobody is supposed to want with games that nobody is supposed to care about are the most preordered at BB, huh? This console is going to be very successful despite what some would like you to believe.

You know both ps4 bundles on that site are sold out, right?

 

[Chaplain]

"That said, we want to offer consumers choice, including physical discs and being able to do all the things that they want with those physical discs. We want to be available in any format that our consumers are looking for. We've always been very committed to consumer choice."

This person seems to have forgotten that the original message was not to give consumers a choice, but to force things on to them...

I think gamers would be willing to trust Microsoft if they just admitted they were wrong about what they originally wanted to do.

 

[mangochutney]

I'd argue otherwise, particularly on the transparency bit. This is admittedly totally speculative, but I seriously wonder whether any of the DRM issues would have come to light had they not found their way to the rumor mill from the get-go. If people had never gotten wind of the always-online, used games restrictions and what-not, how do we know MS would have ever let that information come to light if not compelled to reveal it? And even when pushed, they tried to give us things like "the power of the cloud" nonsense that folks saw for what it really was right away. So their message has hardly been transparent, and that's a big part of the problem of their public image, why people are so ready to call out MS' PR folks on everything they say.

The fact that they didn't mention any of it on stage, and only gave vague answers when pushed and quizzed by journalists is the answer to your question.

 

[kittens]

It wasn't the reversals that hurt them, it was that they tried to shove shitty anti-consumer policies down our throats in the first place. The reversals were a good thing. Does Mike Krahulik do PR for Microsoft now?

 

[EGM1966]

You don't need to praise them. Or even say anything remotely nice, constructive would be better though in my own opinion.

Constructively they need to quieten down with these kinds of comments. Whether MS truly feel they are back in control or not excessively using PR in this way tends to produce the opposite response. People get suspicious when a company starts overly resorting to PR.

I know it's an interview but still - making sweeping comments is not the best angle for them right now : for example it's certainly arguable they are in any better shape than Sony and others to delivery physical and digital media.

 

[hellmonkey]

How is Sony also not corporate and seeking profitability? I am puzzled by this.

There are different ways of doing business. You can have a draconian fist and say do it our way or no way like Apple and like what MS is trying/tried, or you can be customer friendly and make your customers feel appreciated like Sony and Blizzard*.

* I know people will shit on Blizzard, but if you think they don't listen to their fans and try to do right by them, then youre pretty blind (not directed at you , just a general comment).

 

[Gestault]

The family plan, arguably the number one reason and justification for the phone-home requirement was never fully explained. MS seemed more than happy to have people spinning wild imaginings about how only one out of ten people they knew were going to have to buy a game.

We *still* don't know how it was going to work.

You could also say the same about whatever resale/trade-in system MS was supposed to roll out. What exactly was the process? How many games would actually support it?

So on the point of transparency, no, MS was being vague at best and purposefully shady at worst.

The current plan where anyone who plays on a system with a gold account associated with it also gets the benefits of a paid membership is still really good. Even if you're logged in at a friends' house and you have gold and they don't, they get to play online with you on XB1. Sony hasn't even offered that after switching to paid PSN for online play. Sony didn't even work out roaming accounts for the PS3, so there was no way to bring your profile to a friends' place.

Most of the services you're talking about only involved contradictory information if you were basing your info on unverifiable (positive or negative) outside rumors. The descriptions were either clear as stated or not fully described, partly because they were in the process of developing them. You're saying they could have been purposefully shady by obscuring the details; in what way would that benefit them?

 

[Shawn30]

The family plan, arguably the number one reason and justification for the phone-home requirement was never fully explained. MS seemed more than happy to have people spinning wild imaginings about how only one out of ten people they knew were going to have to buy a game.

We *still* don't know how it was going to work.

You could also say the same about whatever resale/trade-in system MS was supposed to roll out. What exactly was the process? How many games would actually support it?

So on the point of transparency, no, MS was being vague at best and purposefully shady at worst.

Honestly, they completely, utterly failed at detailing the system in a concise, plain sort of way. They weren't hiding what they intended to do. But they didn't express it well at all. The faces of the company that do the talking needed to change bigtime IMHO.

 

[watership]

This person seems have to forgotten that the original message was not to give consumers a choice, but to force things on to them...



I think gamers would be willing to trust Microsoft if they just admitted they were wrong about what they originally wanted to do.

They weren't exactly wrong in intent, just in underestimating reaction. Having the choice to lock to download or to disc would have been more reasonable too. They could have sold the idea even more by having an xbox one that came without a disc drive. People would have understood it's online only, and associated it with that. MS tried to accelerate things artificially, and it it bit them.

 

[apana]

I just don't have faith in the average consumer. In most cases, they forgive, forget, and move on. The fact that they released a broken console last gen didn't hurt them much, why would this? A friend of mine had his 360 redring on him three times and he's still not hesitating to give this company more money.

There are just so many issues that have come up in the past when it comes to this stuff that are non-issues now for me to believe people are going to stay mad over this whole thing. Consumers care up until the point where they simply stop caring just "because". It happens all the time. I see no reason why this will be any different.

Similar arguments were made when MS first announced the policy. "No one will care, people are online anyways, people won't remember by the time it launches, bros want their Xbox lol, etc." What happened, huge consumer backlash and a stunning reversal. The red ring also cost Microsoft a lot of money if I remember correctly so it's not like there were no consequences from that policy. Consumers can be forgetful but they can also mobilize quickly if something they want is genuinely threatened. Ability to play your console offline and play used games has been established as one of the fundamental rights of gaming. I want MS to do well and I am sure they will but they also need to abide by their commitments for the long haul.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

I wasn't doing a comparison of Sony vs. MS. I'm saying if your console is currently outselling everything including GTA and your next gen games and accessories are currently selling better than any other console then you are in good shape. The console is going to do very well. That's all I'm saying for now.

People here predicted doom and gloom for the Kinect because of its price point and they were wrong. People here laughed at MS when they quoted high numbers for Kinect and MS beat those numbers by a lot.

 

[Biker19]

You have got to be kidding. You really dont think anyone on this site is biased towards Sony?

Never said that. I was referring to a Xbox fanboy who thinks that people are praising PS4 over Xbox One for no good reason, when that's truly not the case.

It's Microsoft's fuck-ups along with not caring about the consumers with the Xbox One that most people are praising Sony with PS4, just like people were praising Nintendo & Microsoft with the Wii & Xbox 360, due to Sony's fuck-ups with the PS3.

 

[alr1ght]

This person seems have to forgotten that the original message was not to give consumers a choice, but to force things on to them...



I think gamers would be willing to trust Microsoft if they just admitted they were wrong about what they originally wanted to do.

Fun fact. That image has been seen by a fuckload of people.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

I wasn't doing a comparison of Sony vs. MS. I'm saying if your console is outselling GTA and your next gen games and accessories are currently selling better than any other console then you are in good shape. The console is going to do very well. That's all I'm saying for now.

People here predicted doom for the Kinect because of its price point and they were wrong.

You really believe these consoles will outsell gta5? Holy cow.

 

[vasametropolis]

I just don't like MS's continuous smoke-blowing and arrogance. Regardless of them making the right decision on policy reversal, it still feels like they are the kid kicking the sand because he didn't get his way.

Don't. Like.

Edit: For example, "great value proposition." It's a complete load. There is zero added value and they haven't been able to back it up. Anyone can just say things.

 

[NullPointer]

You're saying they could have been purposefully shady by obscuring the details; in what way would that benefit them?

By having people frothing at the mouth to get an Xbox because they interpreted the details on the family plan to mean unfettered access to each game by ten different people.

And yes, thats the shady perspective. Personally I believe its a mix of having both a work in progress as well as a hands-off approach that allowed people without final details to assume the best possible outcomes, no matter how unrealistic.

 

[Chaplain]

They weren't exactly wrong in intent, just in underestimating reaction. Having the choice to lock to download or to disc would have been more reasonable too.

That was the point of my entire post. Xbox Europe VP Chris Lewis is saying that they were always about giving consumers a choice, but the facts show that this was not the original intent.

"That said, we want to offer consumers choice, including physical discs and being able to do all the things that they want with those physical discs. We want to be available in any format that our consumers are looking for. We've always been very committed to consumer choice."

Had MS offered consumers a choice from the very beginning, like you have suggested, things would be a lot different right now.