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[cyberheater]

It runs about 40~45 fps from some benchmarks i have seen at 1080p.

Yes but the devs themselves making a ton of optimisations on a fixed platform without the baggage of Windows 7 etc... with a 6 core processor, fast DDR3 ram and that eSRAM should easily be able to hit 1080p at 60fps.

 

[Darkwaknight]

THIS IS A LAUNCH GAME, Dice were probably only given the go-ahead/dev kits to ship on Next gen consoles within the last 12 months.

The team are shipping across 5 platforms at Launch, they cannot spend the time optimising specific to platforms when the platform holders are still fixing/sorting there API's.

I am sure out of the box the PS4 version can run at a higher framerate at a given higher resolution but with all the Numpty's on here and other sites simply lying about there PC versions running a CONSTANT 60fps with no drops at 1080p is simply disingenuous, so they aim to hit a Constant 60fps with no drops no matter what and this takes a hit at this early stage, they cannot spend the time optimising one to run a 900p @ 60fps and the other @720p 60fps, most likely they are working on their own solutions (Outside of MS updates) to get to this level of 720/60 and the PS4 version is already there. 90% of the buying public will not care/notice about 720 upscalled to 1080 on both so why waste resource effort on it. Maybe they can patch/update post launch, but IMOP Dice are working to get the game solid and stable (most likely on the X1 at the moment).

I am sure when it comes out everyone will love it/play it and agree the 60fps was the right choice and then just quieten down, or go and attack the next sub-par game!!!

When did gamers all become such spoilt brats!!

 

[dragonelite]

Because you can't fit a next gen games framebuffer into the eSRAM so Microsoft made it so you can break it up and keep less used parts of the framebuffer in the system ram. Easier to drop resolution to help squeeze as much needed stuff as you can into the eSRAM in the rush for launch. Then later figure out how to run the games at 1080 later on as they don't have enough time to play with it and figure it out for launch.

Killzones frame buffer is what 46megs? Can't remember of the top of my head.

You can fit four 1080p render targets in esram pretty much what standard deferred gbuffer uses.

Yes but the devs themselves making a ton of optimisations on a fixed platform without the baggage of Windows 7 etc... with a 6 core processor, fast DDR3 ram and that eSRAM should easily be able to hit 1080p at 60fps.

They should be able to do it but given how they still need to be on 6 platforms time is more of an issues.
If they can cut off current gen and focus on next gen and pc only my guess is ps4 1080p and X1 900p or 1920*800 black borders for frostbite games.

 

[cyberheater]

Because you can't fit a next gen games framebuffer into the eSRAM so Microsoft made it so you can break it up and keep less used parts of the framebuffer in the system ram.

You don't know what your talking about.

Frame buffer size at 1080p @ 16bit

1920 x 1080 x colour depth (16bit)
1920 x 1080 x 16 = 33177600 (bits)
Now divide by 8 for bytes = 4147200 (bytes)
Now turn that into megabytes = 3.8Mbyte

Two frame buffers is less then 10Mb.

Even if they were using 32bit framebuffers (I've no idea). It would easily fit into the eSRAM.

 

[StuBurns]

This might have come up, but I can't see it. Is this for the multiplayer and campaign? Or are they doing some sort of KZ type thing?

 

[Jburton]

The consoles are a lot closer to one another than they are to a 1200 dollar gaming rig. A fact that seems lost on many due to console wars or something. They're as close to being identical as 2 competing consoles have ever been.

Nonsense ....... in terms of architecture ... Yes.


In terms of difference in spec ..... No.


PS4 has clearly better gpu and memory specs.

 

[cyberheater]

They should be able to do it but given how they still need to be on 6 platforms time is more of an issues.
If they can cut off current gen and focus on next gen and pc only my guess is ps4 1080p and X1 900p or 1920*800 black borders for frostbite games.

They shouldn't need to drop from 1080p on Xbox One. Also, the human eye is more sensitive to vertical resolution so keeping the 1080p vertical scale and reducing the horizontal scale might be a better option.

 

[KMS]

You don't know what your talking about.

Frame buffer size at 1080p @ 16bit

1920 x 1080 x colour depth (16bit)
1920 x 1080 x 16 = 33177600 (bits)
Now divide by 8 for bytes = 4147200 (bytes)
Now turn that into megabytes = 3.8Mbyte

Two frame buffers is less then 10Mb.

Even if they were using 32bit framebuffers (I've no idea). It would easily fit into the eSRAM.

Yeah, high on lack of sleep for the life of me can't remember but thought killzone would need a eSRAM size 16meg bigger with the way the made it but can't remember why.
Probably going insane.

 

[StuBurns]

They shouldn't need to drop from 1080p on Xbox One. Also, the human eye is more sensitive to vertical resolution so keeping the 1080p vertical scale and reducing the horizontal scale might be a better option.

And we focus far more on the inside of the screen too of course. I'm actually surprised we haven't seen a game that's 1680x1080 with the central third of the screen per-pixel, and 2x1 either side, something along those lines.

 

[kitch9]

Yes but the devs themselves making a ton of optimisations on a fixed platform without the baggage of Windows 7 etc... with a 6 core processor, fast DDR3 ram and that eSRAM should easily be able to hit 1080p at 60fps.

The CPU isn't actually that good though, to get the most out of these systems you'll need to leverage the GPGPU capabilites of the GPU's to take some of the pressure off them.

Something that hasn't been done probably with the launch titles.

 

[velociraptor]

According to wiki. The GPU in Xbox One which is measured as 1.3Tflops is equivalent to something like a GTX 560 which is also measure at around 1.3Tflops.
I'm pretty sure folks with a GTX 560 can run BF3 at 1080p. And that's without the benefit of eSRAM and a ton of fixed architecture console optimisation.

So why the fuck can't the Xbox One version of BF4 run at 1080p?

You cannot compare the architecture of AMD cards and Nvidia cards.

The closest equivilent to XBO's GPU is the 7770 (1.28 vs 1.31). That doesn't run BF3 even at medium settings 1080p. You get 53-54FPS. 900p would give 60FPS though.

For the 7850 (1.76 vs 1.84), BF3 runs at 1080p60 at high settings.

Yes but the devs themselves making a ton of optimisations on a fixed platform without the baggage of Windows 7 etc... with a 6 core processor, fast DDR3 ram and that eSRAM should easily be able to hit 1080p at 60fps.

100% true.

 

[jaosobno]

To be fair Rops/pixelfillrate is not that big of an issue these days if it was
Forza 5 wouldn't run 1080p@60fps2xMsaa(?) now would it.
The Compute will make the difference at least it should but i wouldn't be surprised with launching on what seems like 6 platforms that time is more of an issue.

Sure, pixel fillrate is not important as it used to be but we are still talking about 1152 SP vs 768 SP, 18 CU vs 12 CU, etc.

Downplaying that kind of difference as something not particularly important is just plain wrong.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, high on lack of sleep for the life of me can't remember but thought killzone would need a eSRAM size 16meg bigger with the way the made it but can't remember why.
Probably going insane.

I believe the Killzone slide reference 2 16MB buffers. I don't know why cyberheater was calculating 16bit color. No one would be using less than 32bit and some might be using 64bit. The Killzone slide also references another ~800MB worth of render targets.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You don't know what your talking about.

Frame buffer size at 1080p @ 16bit

1920 x 1080 x colour depth (16bit)
1920 x 1080 x 16 = 33177600 (bits)
Now divide by 8 for bytes = 4147200 (bytes)
Now turn that into megabytes = 3.8Mbyte

Two frame buffers is less then 10Mb.

Even if they were using 32bit framebuffers (I've no idea). It would easily fit into the eSRAM.

Yeah because crytek would use a framebuffer this simple.

 

[JonathanPower]

Maybe because frostbite 3 is pretty CPU heavy. Maybe the architecture of Xbone is a bottleneck, maybe the drivers arent optimzed yet. Its pretty sad to see how weak this console is.

The game running at 60fps means the CPU is not the bottleneck. Resolution is pretty much dependent on the GPU.

 

[cyberheater]

Yeah because crytek would use a framebuffer this simple.

We're talking DICE. Are you in the wrong thread?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

THIS IS A LAUNCH GAME, Dice were probably only given the go-ahead/dev kits to ship on Next gen consoles within the last 12 months.

The team are shipping across 5 platforms at Launch, they cannot spend the time optimising specific to platforms when the platform holders are still fixing/sorting there API's.

I am sure out of the box the PS4 version can run at a higher framerate at a given higher resolution but with all the Numpty's on here and other sites simply lying about there PC versions running a CONSTANT 60fps with no drops at 1080p is simply disingenuous, so they aim to hit a Constant 60fps with no drops no matter what and this takes a hit at this early stage, they cannot spend the time optimising one to run a 900p @ 60fps and the other @720p 60fps, most likely they are working on their own solutions (Outside of MS updates) to get to this level of 720/60 and the PS4 version is already there. 90% of the buying public will not care/notice about 720 upscalled to 1080 on both so why waste resource effort on it. Maybe they can patch/update post launch, but IMOP Dice are working to get the game solid and stable (most likely on the X1 at the moment).

I am sure when it comes out everyone will love it/play it and agree the 60fps was the right choice and then just quieten down, or go and attack the next sub-par game!!!

When did gamers all become such spoilt brats!!

I hear your point but there is a certain level of expectation of capability when you are shelling out £415 for a

Spoiler

mediabox/

gaming machine.

I mean come on. Gamers waited 8 years and 720p?

 

[Can Crusher]

I don't know why Dice doesn't simply lower some graphical options and puts both these versions at 1080p. Seriously, who gives a shit about some extra lens fare and shit? 720p is going to ruin the detail anyway.

 

[darkwing]

I don't know why Dice doesn't simply lower some graphical options and puts both these versions at 1080p. Seriously, who gives a shit about some extra lens fare and shit? 720p is going to ruin the detail anyway.

but it will be upscaled to 1080p like Ryse?

 

[iamshadowlark]

We're talking DICE. Are you in the wrong thread?

I guess. You can put in Dice also.

 

[riflen]

There aren't many 64bit EXE's on the PC, but BF4 will only be 64bit with no 32bit version.

Falsehood! The PC beta will be x86_64 only but the PC release will ship with a binary for x86. The percentage of PC gamers still using a 32-bit OS is small and progress marches on.

 

[gofreak]

I remember seeing a 3-figure number for BF3's g-buffer at 1080p. It was 1xx MBs.

Other games could and do have even larger buffer sizes.

Buffer juggling, perhaps tiling, etc. - and maybe even resolution reduction for convenience - will still be very much a thing with XB1.

 

[Jack_AG]

Sure, pixel fillrate is not important as it used to be but we are still talking about 1152 SP vs 768 SP, 18 CU vs 12 CU, etc.

Downplaying that kind of difference as something not particularly important is just plain wrong.

Oh yeah? Well.... CLOUD.

BOOM, lawyered.

 

[Jack cw]

The game running at 60fps means the CPU is not the bottleneck. Resolution is pretty much dependent on the GPU.

So then its the arcitechture. The GPU should handle 1080p. I think the framebuffer is big enough.

 

[jaosobno]

Oh yeah? Well.... CLOUD.

BOOM, lawyered.

Dang!

 

[mitchman]

Missed this.

... Are there even 32-bit CPUs for PCs anymore? We had 64-bit hit the mainstream and stay there nearly 10 years ago. Granted maybe there's some budget CPUs I'm not taking into account, but it seems to me 32-bit CPUs are purely the domain of mobile now, and even that's probably going to end thanks to Apple.

The problem isn't so much 32-bit CPUs, but 32-bit versions of the OS still being sold pre-installed on some low-end PCs (with less than 4GB memory). Less and less of a problem, but when we looked at whether it would be feasible to only release 64-bit versions of our program at work, we found that 32-bit OSs versions of Windows were still being sold at the time (a year ago).

 

[elektrixx]

They should've stayed 30FPS.

 

[badb0y]

According to wiki. The GPU in Xbox One which is measured as 1.3Tflops is equivalent to something like a GTX 560 which is also measure at around 1.3Tflops.
I'm pretty sure folks with a GTX 560 can run BF3 at 1080p. And that's without the benefit of eSRAM and a ton of fixed architecture console optimisation.

So why the fuck can't the Xbox One version of BF4 run at 1080p?

Don't compare GPUs from nVidia with AMD based on Tflops because the architecture is different. The GPU in Xbox One is closer to HD 7770 than GTX 560.

 

[kitch9]

Falsehood! The PC beta will be x86_64 only but the PC release will ship with a binary for x86. The percentage of PC gamers still using a 32-bit OS is small and progress marches on.

I stand corrected I thought I had read that the final client was 64 bit.

 

[mrlovepump]

Just a slight side thought on this. I have seen a few posts making statements that seem to suggest Microsoft made a less capable console due to engineering pedigree. I thought we should just make it clear that Microsoft made an educated choice about their hardware based on a production cost, expected competitor performance etc and got the gamble wrong. If they had wanted to they could have had double the GCN cores (APU size permitting) or even used a separate chip to accommodate a fancy enough graphics system. The fact is though that they went for what they thought would be “good enough” at a production price they were happy with. The design is nothing to do with skill or intelligence and everything to do with making a business call. If they had hit a cheaper price point it would of made sense but remember this was a game of poker. It was all about guessing what the other player would show when they revealed their hand.

 

[StuBurns]

Just a slight side thought on this. I have seen a few posts making statements that seem to suggest Microsoft made a less capable console due to engineering pedigree. I thought we should just make it clear that Microsoft made an educated choice about their hardware based on a production cost, expected competitor performance etc and got the gamble wrong. If they had wanted to they could have had double the GCN cores (APU size permitting) or even used a separate chip to accommodate a fancy enough graphics system. The fact is though that they went for what they thought would be “good enough” at a production price they were happy with. The design is nothing to do with skill or intelligence and everything to do with making a business call. If they had hit a cheaper price point it would of made sense but remember this was a game of poker. It was all about guessing what the other player would show when they revealed their hand.

Poker has an element of chance to it, that isn't the case here. MS chose to have a flush to put up against Sony's full house.

It shouldn't matter what the opposition is doing, you should provide the maximum performance for your price point, and minus the Kinect, their console price point is essentially even, so their performance should be too.

 

[cyberheater]

Don't compare GPUs from nVidia with AMD based on Tflops because the architecture is different. The GPU in Xbox One is closer to HD 7770 than GTX 560.

So an AMD Tflop isn't as powerful as a nVidia Tflop. Why is that. How are AMD wasting performance?

 

[Darkwaknight]

Here is the first footage I have seen from the Current Gen versions of BF4 (This being the 360 version from the beta).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=766iVzP2vFg

Looks even worse than BF3 so this is going to be another patch work release like the PS3 BF3 was i guess, the gun and hand looks REALLY bad!!

EDIT: Sorry this is my bad, I was Rick Rolled, ignore as this is BF3....:-(

 

[cyberheater]

Just a slight side thought on this. I have seen a few posts making statements that seem to suggest Microsoft made a less capable console due to engineering pedigree. I thought we should just make it clear that Microsoft made an educated choice about their hardware based on a production cost, expected competitor performance etc and got the gamble wrong. If they had wanted to they could have had double the GCN cores (APU size permitting) or even used a separate chip to accommodate a fancy enough graphics system. The fact is though that they went for what they thought would be “good enough” at a production price they were happy with. The design is nothing to do with skill or intelligence and everything to do with making a business call. If they had hit a cheaper price point it would of made sense but remember this was a game of poker. It was all about guessing what the other player would show when they revealed their hand.

Yep. I agree with this post especially the bolded part. I'm convinced that MS thought that PS4 would only ship with 4Gb of GDDR5. When Sony announced 8Gb, the MS offices must have exploded.

 

[oldnick]

We're talking DICE. Are you in the wrong thread?

I chuckled ;p

 

[fluffydelusions]

Here is the first footage I have seen from the Current Gen versions of BF4 (This being the 360 version from the beta).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=766iVzP2vFg

Looks even worse than BF3 so this is going to be another patch work release like the PS3 BF3 was i guess, the gun and hand looks REALLY bad!!

That is bf3

 

[Darkwaknight]

That is bf3

Ah no my bad... I got Rick Rolled there, I cam across it from a video scan and I am not a big BF3 player so did not notice!! SORRY!!

 

[MMaRsu]

They should've stayed 30FPS.

Hahaha no.

 

[AdmiralPain]

I call all people to boycott Battlefield 4! I don't want to play downgraded version on PS4 because Microsoft make weak console. I will not support DICE for some shitty PS4 port. YOU WON'T SEE MY MONEY, DICE!!!

Yeah, if the XB1 version massively outsells the PS4 version, that will send the right message to DICE, right?

 

[Ubersnug]

Don't know if this has been posted, but here we have some positive impressions of BF4 on the XOne http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtDFfPCrIwY

 

[jet1911]

I call all people to boycott Battlefield 4! I don't want to play downgraded version on PS4 because Microsoft make weak console. I will not support DICE for some shitty PS4 port. YOU WON'T SEE MY MONEY, DICE!!!

Nah man, I'll be allright with the PC version.

 

[MMaRsu]

Well I for one can say with certainty that if it's not full hd on PS4 either I personally will skip it and pick up Shadowfall instead.

We need NEXT GEN, not half gen.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Yeah, if the XB1 version massively outsells the PS4 version, that will send the right message to DICE, right?

Yeah, never understood the whole "boycott this version" thing. I've seen it used for Wii U ports, but nobody seems to understand that if that version sells like shit it'll only compound the problem.

 

[badb0y]

So an AMD Tflop isn't as powerful as a nVidia Tflop. Why is that. How are AMD wasting performance?

Not sure, I have never researched why that is I just chalked it up to different architectures lol.

 

[Strawman]

Yeah, never understood the whole "boycott this version" thing. I've seen it used for Wii U ports, but nobody seems to understand that if that version sells like shit it'll only compound the problem.

I disagree, If console X sells 1 million units and console Y also sells a million units but battlefield4 sells twice as much on console Y than X that would be a clear sign that something needs to be investigated. There's no way I'm prepared to buy PS4 games that i suspect have been downgraded to match the X1 versions.

 

[mrlovepump]

Poker has an element of chance to it, that isn't the case here. MS chose to have a flush to put up against Sony's full house.

It shouldn't matter what the opposition is doing, you should provide the maximum performance for your price point, and minus the Kinect, their console price point is essentially even, so their performance should be too.

Absolutely it should. If MS had gone for a kinectless SKU that was $50-100 cheaper than the ps4 the general populous would be ripping them off the shelves. I cannot help but feel that MS got a bit greedy, wanting to break even / make a small profit on the hardware sales.

Having said that though if MS went kinectless they would remove the only thing that is a glimmer of hope at the moment and that is pulling off the dream of this seamless media experience. I like the vision, I just fear they wont pull it off.

If they could of come out of the gate with kinect and media working internationally with the one guide etc fully functioning I think for many the debate would go out of the window, at least considering it as a strong second console. Maybe just me. Having young kids I am often scrambling for the remote and having voice control over TV would be really really handy. After all thats all we used our previous kinect for "Xbox Pause" lol.

Anyway... this is getting a wee bit off topic.

 

[StuBurns]

I disagree, If console X sells 1 million units and console Y also sells a million units but battlefield4 sells twice as much on console Y than X that would be a clear sign that something needs to be investigated. There's no way I'm prepared to buy PS4 games that i suspect have been downgraded to match the X1 versions.

"Why do you think we sold better on XBO?"
"Well, Killzone probably"
"Yeah, sounds about right"

No one gives a shit about a PS4 version being 'downgraded', no one outside of the core would ever even know.

 

[Tsundere]

Honestly instead of straight up boycotting it, start a #PS4NoCompromise campaign or something. Get the public to see what's going on, make them understand that DICE/Ea shouldn't downgrade the PS4 version to please Microsoft.

 

[cyberheater]

Not sure, I have never researched why that is I just chalked it up to different architectures lol.

I wonder if it's due to AMD crappy drivers?

 

[kriskrosbbk]

Honestly instead of straight up boycotting it, start a #PS4NoCompromise campaign or something. Get the public to see what's going on, make them understand that DICE/Ea shouldn't downgrade the PS4 version to please Microsoft.

The #PS4NoDRM thing worked quite well . Count me in.