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[Nohar]

She certainly didn't deserve what happened to her at the EG Expo. No one deserves to be humiliated in front of others, or to be deshumanized and be called a "it".
I believe she had every right to confront the comedian in question, and that they shouldn't have refused it.

Now, regarding her actions on the internet (specifically her Twitter account): it's difficult to say if this was or was not a good move. It all depends on the goal she seeked to fulfill. Obviously, this allowed her to finally be able to make MS react and to contact the comedian in question. On the other hand, she put herself directly on the public place, and became the target of death threats made by, at best, ignorant people, and, at worst, complete scumbags. Needless to say, that certainly wasn't her intent.

Also, like GrizzleBoy said, there are other problems which arise from this situation: her journalistic integrity and the comedian reputation and employability. No matter how you look at this, there are going to be consequences for both of them on a professional level.

Was she right to try to defend herself and get closure? Certainly. Was it a smart move to make her problem public? I'm not so sure. Was there a better way to solve the situation? Hard to say, since she said that MS wouldn't let her talk to the comedian, so was there really any alternative to the public declaration?

 

[BanGy.nz]

Not especially. People are constantly making hurtful and inflammatory comments on the internet. You'd think a journalist would understand that and know take the peanut gallery for what they're worth. Bigots are going to be bigots I don't endorse bigotry, but she drew attention to herself, posted her own private information publicly, demonized and floated the name of some guy with a phony account of events so people would perceive him unquestioningly as the aggressor, etc., etc. Everything that followed that is wholly predictable. If you thrust yourself in the spotlight seeking attention don't be surprised when it's not the kind you'd like.

I don't understand how anyone could think like that, we'll never agree on this.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Laura Kate Dale and Fraser Millward have come to agree that the situation which took place at the Xbox stand at Eurogamer on Sunday 29th September was an unfortunate misunderstanding on both sides. It has now been made clear that Fraser did not refer to Laura as an 'it' or a 'thing' or a 'he', and these claims have now been fully retracted by Laura and she is sorry for the hurt this caused. Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'. Laura was also upset by statements which she saw as suggesting that she was not female. Fraser is sorry he said this, and for the pain he inadvertently caused Laura. Both parties wish to put the situation behind them and consider this matter now resolved.

 

[emalord]

Uhm, I read the whole thing today and I understood that a transgender boy now a girl used her status of transgender to start a crusade against a comedian in charge of a MS public event because he said/did something that she did not like.
And while noone would have cared for the same accident if the part in cause was a common male/female person, the whole internet posse took the part of one of the twos because a so-called minority used its status to rise the masses against one person.

This is why I do not consider anyone or anything a minority. This is why I treat everyone as a normal people and why I loved a phocomelic lovely girl in my 30's, because when someone offend me, when someone is rude to me or to the persons I love, I kick his/hers white/black/yellow ass regardless of anything. Everyone ows me the same respect I pay to anyone and he/she will never hide behind the wall of being a minority if they disrespect me or my beloved.
That's why I love everyone in the world and I respect everyone in my life, because I do not want to feel sad or remorse when their bones are aching.

 

[A Link to the Past]

And he was being attacked even before her statement was even confirmed.

That doesn't mean a thing. There's a world of difference between "attacking someone due to poor evidence" and "attacking someone because they're transgender". One is poor judgment and the other is bigotry. Again, the hate mail was not the result of her lying, misunderstanding, or misrepresenting what happened. The hate mail was because she was transgender. I don't understand why I have to explain the difference between mistaken (vitriolistic) criticism and hate mail that could qualify as a hate crime.

 

[SmokyDave]

Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'.

They really ought to have found a better way to phrase this. 'This person' doesn't carry any gendered connotations, quite the opposite in fact. I guess he had to cop to something though.

 

[Dictator93]

Laura Kate Dale and Fraser Millward have come to agree that the situation which took place at the Xbox stand at Eurogamer on Sunday 29th September was an unfortunate misunderstanding on both sides. It has now been made clear that Fraser did not refer to Laura as an 'it' or a 'thing' or a 'he', and these claims have now been fully retracted by Laura and she is sorry for the hurt this caused. Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'. Laura was also upset by statements which she saw as suggesting that she was not female. Fraser is sorry he said this, and for the pain he inadvertently caused Laura. Both parties wish to put the situation behind them and consider this matter now resolved.

This peson is offensive from a mis-genedering aspect?!

Hate to be a dick, but how does that make sense?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Uhm, I read the whole thing today and I understood that a transgender boy now a girl used her status of transgender to start a crusade against a comedian in charge of a MS public event because he said/did something that she did not like.
And while noone would have cared for the same accident if the part in cause was a common male/female person, the whole internet posse took the part of one of the twos because a so-called minority used its status to rise the masses against one person.

This is why I do not consider anyone or anything a minority. This is why I treat everyone as a normal people and why I loved a phocomelic lovely girl in my 30's, because when someone offend me, when someone is rude to me or to the persons I love, I kick his/hers white/black/yellow ass regardless of anything. Everyone ows me the same respect I pay to anyone and he/she will never hide behind the wall of being a minority if they disrespect me or my beloved.
That's why I love everyone in the world and I respect everyone in my life, because I do not want to feel sad or remorse when I break their bones.

Can I just go ahead and say that you have an agenda?

1. Transgender people are a minority. This isn't a matter of debate. This is observable in every day life.

2. Are you really arguing that no one should care if such a situation were to occur because no one would care if it happened to a man? Well, to that, I will say what I always say: why don't you actively discuss the problem with this happening to a man (a rare situation considering men usually don't have a problem fitting into the gaming industry/community) in a constructive manner? Why is it that every situation where this rears its head, no one ever wants to do anything about it? At least the person who criticized my use of manchild seemed to be pretty "into" the idea of defending men, and seemed to have a pretty specific idea in mind. This post seems to suggest that the only motive is to devalue what purportedly happened rather than to give value to what you're discussing. It's pretty shitty how you use it like a tool for your own benefit.

3. In the end, it doesn't matter if you don't look at people as minorities. Specific groups of people will still have less power, less income, less opportunities, because of what they are.

 

[CambriaRising]

So the journalist lied about this almost completely.

That is...wow. I seriously don't understand how "this person" has any gender connotations unless it is some kind of tonal argument.

 

[Hex]

"It's just the internet" isn't a reasonable excuse for the transphobic abuse Laura has received, that abusive and toxic element that exists in most online communities needs to be destroyed.

Please stop defending these people.

Sticking my neck out here, but how much hatemail and abuse do you think that he got from lbgt defenders rushing in judgement to lash out in defense at the very first sign of her accusations without even bothering to look to see or research if they were true or fabricated or if there was more to the story?
How many emails and tweets went flooding out for this guys head possibly calling him transphobic or homophobic or countless other things, many very eager to see him lose his job and livelihood.
When at the end of the day he was just a bad comedian.
She knew that the minute she hit twitter there would be a frothing throng of support out there ready to support with no questions asked.

Yes there is an abusive and toxic element in most online communities, and yes it is something that is out there and while yes it going away would be ideal a thicker skin is something that is unfortunately still needed in this day and age and it does not look like that will change anytime soon. At the same time there are also elements so eager to support their cause and in many cases very worthy causes that sometimes they are willing to overlook some things because it is part of said cause.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I am thorougly screaming at this new update. Funny when I first came into this thread and explained my reasoning of being disgusted by the accessory of women on stage, I was shot down to death because everyone disagreed but look at that...Right in the update it sits in the first couple of lines. I feel for homegirl but that's as far as it goes.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

"It's just the internet" isn't a reasonable excuse for the transphobic abuse Laura has received, that abusive and toxic element that exists in most online communities needs to be destroyed.

Please stop defending these people.

Saying "it's just the internet" isn't nearly the same thing as "defending these people."

If someone observes, "well, the sad truth is that crime will always exist," that doesn't mean that person is defending criminals.

 

[BanGy.nz]

I don't understand why I have to explain the difference between mistaken (vitriolistic) criticism and hate mail that could qualify as a hate crime.

Apparently on the internet you say anything because it's the internet.

You can almost literally see the privilege in emalord post.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Sticking my neck out here, but how much hatemail and abuse do you think that he got from lbgt defenders rushing in judgement to lash out in defense at the very first sign of her accusations without even bothering to look to see or research if they were true or fabricated or if there was more to the story?
How many emails and tweets went flooding out for this guys head possibly calling him transphobic or homophobic or countless other things, many very eager to see him lose his job and livelihood.
When at the end of the day he was just a bad comedian.
She knew that the minute she hit twitter there would be a frothing throng of support out there ready to support with no questions asked.

Yes there is an abusive and toxic element in most online communities, and yes it is something that is out there and while yes it going away would be ideal a thicker skin is something that is unfortunately still needed in this day and age and it does not look like that will change anytime soon. At the same time there are also elements so eager to support their cause and in many cases very worthy causes that sometimes they are willing to overlook some things because it is part of said cause.

Why do people keep arguing this. He did not deserve the hate mail he got, but at least the hate mail was for something that people thought he DID. Your argument would be FANTASTIC if she was receiving hate mail for lying, AFTER she was confirmed to have done so. She didn't. She received hate mail for accusing him of mis-gendering her as well as hate mail targeting her for being transgender.

tldr; he was targeted for supposedly being transphobic, she was targeted for being transgender. There's a fucking difference. I can understand not entirely empathizing with her for what she did but to suggest that the hate mail the two of them received was even remotely the same is a fucking farce.

 

[Ulumsk]

So her claims were mostly fabricated and the worst the comedian could be accused of would be ignorance or being insensitive?

Well that ended poorly for everyone involved.

 

[bigmit3737]

Has it been verified that he refused to speak with her at the show in regards to an apology?

 

[HolyBaikal]

tldr; he was targeted for supposedly being transphobic, she was targeted for being transgender. There's a fucking difference. I can understand not entirely empathizing with her for what she did but to suggest that the hate mail the two of them received was even remotely the same is a fucking farce.

Yeah, I couldn't possibly agree with this statement more.

Attacking someone for something they didn't do is bad.
But attacking someone for being transgender is horrible. But attacking someone for being transphobic, is not.

 

[Delusibeta]

So, at the end of the day, the only phrase she had a problem with that the comedian agreed he said was "this person".

Honest question: is there any other gender neutral pronouns in the English language?

 

[Geedorah]

... but to suggest that the hate mail the two of them received was even remotely the same is a fucking farce.

Why in the world does it even matter to compare the two?!

You seem to miss the actual issue at hand, trying instead to focus on who is getting more 'legitimately worthy of our empathy' hate mail directed to them...

It would be a terribly uncomfortable position to be misgendered on stage in front of lots of people - but didn't she actively walk up on stage? It all sounds like a huge misunderstanding that should have been resolved there at the performance by two adults talking face-to-face; but ultimately running to Twitter and unleashing the fury, undermines her entirely.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why in the world does it even matter to compare the two?!

You seem to miss the actual issue at hand, trying instead to focus on who is getting more 'legitimately worthy of our empathy' hate mail directed to them...

It would be a terribly uncomfortable position to be misgendered on stage in front of lots of people - but didn't she actively walk up on stage? It all sounds like a huge misunderstanding that should have been resolved there at the performance by two adults talking face-to-face; but ultimately running to Twitter and unleashing the fury, undermines her entirely.

It's being compared because other people are bringing it up as a counter as though her causing him to receive hate mail is the same as her receiving hate mail for being transgender.

 

[watershed]

Laura Kate Dale and Fraser Millward have come to agree that the situation which took place at the Xbox stand at Eurogamer on Sunday 29th September was an unfortunate misunderstanding on both sides. It has now been made clear that Fraser did not refer to Laura as an 'it' or a 'thing' or a 'he', and these claims have now been fully retracted by Laura and she is sorry for the hurt this caused. Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'. Laura was also upset by statements which she saw as suggesting that she was not female. Fraser is sorry he said this, and for the pain he inadvertently caused Laura. Both parties wish to put the situation behind them and consider this matter now resolved.

I'm glad this has been resolved but she really shouldn't have lied in the first place. It seems clear the the MC meant no offense when he said "this person". I can totally understand her being offended in that moment but to say other things were said after the fact is just wrong.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

So her claims were mostly fabricated and the worst the comedian could be accused of would be ignorance or being insensitive?

Well that ended poorly for everyone involved.

how is calling someone "this person" be ignorance or insensitive?

This person is the most gender neutral thing you can call!

 

[A Link to the Past]

how is calling someone "this person" be ignorance or insensitive?

This person is the most gender neutral thing you can call!

My best guess is that the comedian called her this person while calling others by their gender.

As for whether she lied, it is entirely possible that she misheard after becoming upset by being identified as "this person". Also gotta remember that he did say that they needed women on the stage, which he acknowledges and states that he meant more women.

 

[SmokyDave]

It's being compared because other people are bringing it up as a counter as though her causing him to receive hate mail is the same as her receiving hate mail for being transgender.

Whilst I understand what you're saying, I think you should bear in mind that she caused him to receive hate mail, he didn't cause her to receive hate mail. I think that lends him an additional degree of sympathy that might slightly balance out the differing severities of the mails in peoples minds. That's just my speculation though.

 

[Hex]

Why do people keep arguing this. He did not deserve the hate mail he got, but at least the hate mail was for something that people thought he DID. Your argument would be FANTASTIC if she was receiving hate mail for lying, AFTER she was confirmed to have done so. She didn't. She received hate mail for accusing him of mis-gendering her as well as hate mail targeting her for being transgender.

tldr; he was targeted for supposedly being transphobic, she was targeted for being transgender. There's a fucking difference. I can understand not entirely empathizing with her for what she did but to suggest that the hate mail the two of them received was even remotely the same is a fucking farce.

I understand why she was targeted.
And it is a shitty part of the world that we live in, but it has nothing to do with Kotaku, Microsoft, the comedian or anyone else but herself for not stepping back and taking a breath before running to the keyboard.
As a TG journalist, in the world that we live in this can not be the first time, nor would it be the last time.
Female journalists broke this ground and dealt with this long ago and dealt with hate and derision, the first black journalists had it even worse and went through life threatening situations to get their stories in a country that hated them. (Yes I know a bit dramatic for an online gaming journalist but still..)
These are words on the internet.
It sucks, but if you are going to be a journalist, if you dare call yourself a journalist you are going to say things that people do not like and then people will lash out.
If you are going to go into that starting off as a minority? You should be ready for that. You HAVE to be ready for that, unless you are going to hide in one little corner of the internet.
If you are not then do not do it.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

My best guess is that the comedian called her this person while calling others by their gender.

As for whether she lied, it is entirely possible that she misheard after becoming upset by being identified as "this person". Also gotta remember that he did say that they needed women on the stage, which he acknowledges and states that he meant more women.

according to the comedian he said he was calling everyone this person

 

[A Link to the Past]

Whilst I understand what you're saying, I think you should bear in mind that she caused him to receive hate mail, he didn't cause her to receive hate mail. I think that lends him an additional degree of sympathy that might slightly balance out the differing severities of the mails in peoples minds. That's just my speculation though.

For clarity, I never blamed him for the hate mail - my position has always been to criticize the people sending the hate mail. The reason why the balance tips in favour of her for me in terms of the weight of the hate mail is that she didn't do anything at the time to justify it, while at the time (and in the minds of the people sending the hate mail), he did. Both people deserve sympathy, but the fact is that even if she was right, she would still have received the hate mail.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I understand why she was targeted.
And it is a shitty part of the world that we live in, but it has nothing to do with Kotaku, Microsoft, the comedian or anyone else but herself for not stepping back and taking a breath before running to the keyboard.
As a TG journalist, in the world that we live in this can not be the first time, nor would it be the last time.
Female journalists broke this ground and dealt with this long ago and dealt with hate and derision, the first black journalists had it even worse and went through life threatening situations to get their stories in a country that hated them. (Yes I know a bit dramatic for an online gaming journalist but still..)
These are words on the internet.
It sucks, but if you are going to be a journalist, if you dare call yourself a journalist you are going to say things that people do not like and then people will lash out.
If you are going to go into that starting off as a minority? You should be ready for that. You HAVE to be ready for that, unless you are going to hide in one little corner of the internet.
If you are not then do not do it.

Are you seriously trying to justify this hate mail because "oh, 50 years ago this same hate mail existed!" The past doesn't justify the present. While it is true that being a minority journalist, especially a transgender journalist, is a hard job, it does not mean that the hate mail is acceptable. It means that it's normal. Being normal and being okay are two different things. This normal thing is absolutely a terrible thing and as such needs to be addressed, and is most certainly a bigger problem than a poor assumption leading to hate mail.

 

[BruiserBear]

I think we're missing the heartwarming story here about how white knighting transcends traditional gender conventions.

I don't have any sympathy for hyperbole, distortion of the facts, or playing the victim card- especially if that's your tact whenever someone calls out your bullshit. Freaking out over a faux pas and publicly trumping up your accusations does a disservice to anyone who's been on the receiving end of truly malicious intent.

This is perfect.

 

[mclem]

I'm curious if it'd be regarded as more insensitive to politely *ask* what gender she identifies as; on the one hand it's bringing attention to it, on the other it does mean you can be sure to be addressing her in terms she's satisfied with.

 

[pixlexic]

so it was nothing and people jumped to outrage instantaneously AGAIN on a whim without knowing what truly happened?

Its scary how many pitchforks are lined up on the wall ready to go.

 

[Tesseract]

her fabricated bullshit could well have costed him his career, network of employers, perhaps worse. she's a liar, through and through.

that joint statement is a fucking joke.

 

[halfbeast]

they only thing I've learned from this is, if someone threatens to quit their job after a "little" incident, it's best to not get involved.

twitter fights seem to be the new thing these days - it needs to die out.

 

[Gui_PT]

I'm glad this has been resolved but she really shouldn't have lied in the first place. It seems clear the the MC meant no offense when he said "this person". I can totally understand her being offended in that moment but to say other things were said after the fact is just wrong.

Completely agree. Deserves a quote.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Has it been verified that he refused to speak with her at the show in regards to an apology?

Apparently he had nothing to apologize for.

 

[A Link to the Past]

so it was nothing and people jumped to outrage instantaneously AGAIN on a whim without knowing what truly happened?

Its scary how many pitchforks are lined up on the wall ready to go.

You know what's scarier? The fact that being transgender causes people to want to kill you

 

[blackflag]

Laura Kate Dale and Fraser Millward have come to agree that the situation which took place at the Xbox stand at Eurogamer on Sunday 29th September was an unfortunate misunderstanding on both sides. It has now been made clear that Fraser did not refer to Laura as an 'it' or a 'thing' or a 'he', and these claims have now been fully retracted by Laura and she is sorry for the hurt this caused. Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'. Laura was also upset by statements which she saw as suggesting that she was not female. Fraser is sorry he said this, and for the pain he inadvertently caused Laura. Both parties wish to put the situation behind them and consider this matter now resolved.

So basically he did nothing intentionally hurtful but she did? That's what I read from this.

 

[flatearthpandas]

For clarity, I never blamed him for the hate mail - my position has always been to criticize the people sending the hate mail. The reason why the balance tips in favour of her for me in terms of the weight of the hate mail is that she didn't do anything at the time to justify it, while at the time (and in the minds of the people sending the hate mail), he did. Both people deserve sympathy, but the fact is that even if she was right, she would still have received the hate mail.

The balance of what? Sympathy? The guilty is more sympathetic than the innocent because she purposefully stirred up the internet and it backfired on her?

What I don't get is how you can say that she got hate mail purely because of who she was when I can find any number of public members of the trans community on Twitter that are not being inundated by hate mail. It seems the hate mail, as vile as it may have been, whatever it said, was a response more to the questionable public spectacle she made than to her identity. Her identity was ammunition against her obviously, but not what sparked the flame.

What I find crass about this situation is the attempt to turn this whole thing around as to why trans people don't speak out. As if what she did was legitimately try and speak out instead of "publically shaming anyone that made her feel like shit" because she was "tired of being professional." I'm certain that if she had gotten a lawyer and/or contacted a reputable new source, this could have been cleared up niceley without anywhere near the level of vitriol. Of course, her story would have had to be true to run that course.

 

[Tesseract]

You know what's scarier? The fact that being transgender causes people to want to kill you

what's that got to do with her being a liar and coward?

 

[BruiserBear]

So basically he did nothing intentionally hurtful but she did? That's what I read from this.

Yup.

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's lawyer emailed/called this girl and said "you're going to release a statement admitting you lied, or else".

 

[Freki]

You know what's scarier? The fact that being transgender causes people to want to kill you

fixed that for you

 

[A Link to the Past]

what's that got to do with her being a liar and coward?

The fact that people immediately targeted her for the fact that she was transgender far more than they later did for being a liar or supposed coward.

 

[Cels]

Laura Kate Dale and Fraser Millward have come to agree that the situation which took place at the Xbox stand at Eurogamer on Sunday 29th September was an unfortunate misunderstanding on both sides. It has now been made clear that Fraser did not refer to Laura as an 'it' or a 'thing' or a 'he', and these claims have now been fully retracted by Laura and she is sorry for the hurt this caused. Fraser caused offence to Laura on stage when he publicly misgendered her by addressing her as 'this person'. Laura was also upset by statements which she saw as suggesting that she was not female. Fraser is sorry he said this, and for the pain he inadvertently caused Laura. Both parties wish to put the situation behind them and consider this matter now resolved.

how is sayng "this person" misgendering someone? it is the most neutral nonoffensive thing you could really do when describing someone whose gender you are unsure of.

 

[BruiserBear]

The fact that people immediately targeted her for the fact that she was transgender far more than they later did for being a liar or supposed coward.

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if she hadn't lied in the first place. She wouldn't have received any of this attention if she didn't attempt to smear this guy because of an honest mistake.

 

[shuri]

I think that at the end of the day, Her over-reaction to this caused more harm to the LGBT acceptance movement than the usa of 'this person' . I find it really sad and it's almost 'shameful' to see that the events were misrepresented.

Nobody wants to have their livehood destroyed because they chose thr wrong words by mistake! And it sucks for people who are victims of real harrassement!

 

[Senor Kami]

I'm stepping back into this thread having been away for a few days and I want to make sure I've got the story right.

A woman whose gender wasn't and isn't obvious to the eye was referred to as, "this person," by a comedian. She then makes up a bunch of lies about being called "it" and "thing" and goes on Twitter to publicly shame (her words, not mine) the comedian for the false acts that she made up.

Why are we feeling sorry for her again? She tries to use lies to shame someone and ends up getting shamed herself. That sounds like what goes around comes around and karma to me.

how is sayng "this person" misgendering someone? it is the most neutral nonoffensive thing you could really do when describing someone whose gender you are unsure of.

I'd say you could be overly kind and refer to them as, "beautiful human beings," but then if they're a woman and you're a male, you'll be accused of being a sexist, misogynist pig and #1reasonwhy

 

[Tesseract]

The fact that people immediately targeted her for the fact that she was transgender far more than they later did for being a liar or supposed coward.

nobody gives a damn about lunatic fringe extremists, they're everywhere. are you going on about fucktard anonymity again?

and it's not supposed cowardice, the joint statement paired with her previous actions paints a pretty clear picture of the kind of person she is. whoops, called her a person.

the horror.

 

[Bravocado]

I'm glad this has been resolved but she really shouldn't have lied in the first place. It seems clear the the MC meant no offense when he said "this person". I can totally understand her being offended in that moment but to say other things were said after the fact is just wrong.

Yeah, it sucks that it happened, and the backlash against her is still undeserved, but the lying makes the difference when it comes to that comedian's job and public image.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So wait... This turned out to be bullshit? Lol if true.

 

[daycru]

how is sayng "this person" misgendering someone? it is the most neutral nonoffensive thing you could really do when describing someone whose gender you are unsure of.

When victimhood is your Oxygen, sometimes you need to inhale really deep.