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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better

Krakn3Dfx

Member
Good news for people buying the system, figured most of this was the case, but hopefully they get a grasp on this stuff pretty soon to avoid further issues down the line.

Will be going PlayStation out of the gate, but would like to pick up a One down the line to enjoy all the options once there's a price cut in 12 to 18 months. Going to new bummed to not play Dead Rising 3 next month, especially if it's good.
 
It's more difficult to work with and get the same performance out of, is how I interpret it.

Developers will get better at using it.

But it will never change the fundamental hardware disparity.

Not that developers will get better but MS will provide better tools for them to work with the eSRAM. MS should have known this was gonna be an issue and that should have been priority. Didn't they learn anything from Sony?
 

stew

Member
How much more work does this mean for the devs, to work on two differents resolutions for most of the games? I've read that it would be more profitable for them to make almost the same game for both consoles, is that true?
 
Except PS3's hardware advantages (dat Cell power) were eventually exploited to its advantage and to compensate for its weaknesses (the non-unified memory pools and the seeker GPU.)

Conversely, CBOAT is saying the XBone's gimped hardware will ALWAYS be behind the PS4.


So yeah, development will get better/easier on XBone, but it will never make up for the obvious deficit in raw power.

People were expecting the specs to change or something? I don't know lol. :)

This was pretty much expected. ESRAM is just an extra hurdle on the Xbox One side.

Pretty much.

Has anyone other than Proelite mentioned OS crashes and freezes? That sounds nasty but I haven't heard it gaining steam among the insiders like the usual big rumors do.

Don't buy it for a second. I have a friend in first party development for the system that specifically calls that nonsense. They've seen or heard no such thing. Maybe some people elsewhere experienced issues with a dev kit or something at most, but that's not a widespread issue they've heard almost anything about.
 

Gaz_RB

Member
And that got me thinking yesterday about Sony's kerfuffle circa 2006. If Sony can recover from "$599" and "Giant Enemy Crabs" and get to where they are now, then I'd imagine MS could do something similar. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen but, you know, anything's possible. Naïve hope and what not.

I'm pretty sure they'll be fine in the long run. If the money's not coming in, things will change. Have no fear, friend flesh
 

Wurdfurd

Member
TBH I think the first time we will be TRULY impressed with the X1 hardware will be Halo 5. Its their flagship title and so much time and money will be poured into it.

I mean, ignoring what Halo 4 was, it was a phenomenal looking game considering the hardware it was on.
 

Heysoos

Member
Which lines up with previous rumors about the drivers or w/e being extremely behind and the console not being prepped for a 2013 launch. MS got caught with their pants around their ankles. Sony came out firing on all cylinders, good for them.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
How much more work does this mean for the devs, to work on two differents resolutions for most of the games? I've read that it would be more profitable for them to make almost the same game for both consoles, is that true?

Two different resolutions with all other settings the same would literally just be changing a couple values.
 

Spongebob

Banned
TBH I think the first time we will be TRULY impressed with the X1 hardware will be Halo 5. Its their flagship title and so much time and money will be poured into it.

I mean, ignoring what Halo 4 was, it was a phenomenal looking game considering the hardware it was on.
Halo 5 is going for 60fps, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was 720p.
 

Pain

Banned
So what exactly prevents 1080p from being the norm on Xbobe? Is it a DDR3 problem? Is the GPU even more limited than we thought?
 

DogMeat77

Member
How much more work does this mean for the devs, to work on two differents resolutions for most of the games? I've read that it would be more profitable for them to make almost the same game for both consoles, is that true?

Different resolutions won't really be an issue, resolution will be the compromise. The issue is apparently the eSRAM in the XB1.
 

The Flash

Banned
I'm pretty sure they'll be fine in the long run. If the money's not coming in, things will change. Have no fear, friend flesh

I'm sure it will be too. Just wanted to know more about how/why the One is in the state that it's in. Thanks friend gaz.
 
it's pretty obvious phil harrison is the culprit. not ken kutagari and his ps3. now he's working with xbox one and such. i would like to see him go to Nintendo next.
 

Bsigg12

Member
So what exactly prevents 1080p from being the norm on Xbobe? Is it a DDR3 problem? Is the GPU even more limited than we thought?

It will be entirely design decisions. If they want to maintain rendering techniques between the two platforms, the Xbox One will likely be taking a resolution hit to keep all the bells and whistles.

That said, it is the GPU being weaker. Nothing new really.
 
Misterxmedia and his cult are still waiting to watch GAF burn in the dual-GPU fire.

See, I'm as positive about the Xbox One and it's capabilities as just about anyone here, and I think I have good reason to be based on what I've heard from a friend working on the system, but I can't believe people believe that rubbish over there. I'm almost certain it's someone intentionally making fun of them.

They haven't seen that this guy keeps moving the goal posts all over the place? I actually tried to go over there and read some stuff once, and I quickly got a headache trying to follow all this stuff. It's insane, and what makes it tougher is reading the comments section. A lot of genuinely cool people that are totally being misled by this individual, who I'm 100% convinced is having conversations with himself, and not some "insider."

So what exactly prevents 1080p from being the norm on Xbobe? Is it a DDR3 problem? Is the GPU even more limited than we thought?

Nothing, really. 100% of games could be 1080p on the Xbox One if developers didn't demand a certain level of graphical and visual polish from their games. People demand better and better graphics, and if a lot of games were 1080p, especially early in the system's life, sacrifices to graphical detail and features would have to be dialed back to hit that resolution at an acceptable level of performance. Developers don't like that tradeoff. They want their games to look as amazing as they can make them, and that's why they don't hesitate to go for lower resolutions if it helps them achieve that. As developers get better with the hardware perhaps they'll be able to do more with the system graphically at 1080p, but there's the PS4 which has more powerful hardware, and it's no secret that games will regularly be looked at and compared between the two systems, and a game with a lowered resolution on Xbox One but with the graphical details kicked up an extra notch compares more favorably than a game that is probably compromised in some fashion to hit 1080p, but doesn't really look all that hot as a result. At the end of the day, I think developers realize that nobody gives them any points for ticking off boxes on a checklist. Gamers, but also developers themselves, want to be able to look at a game and say, "Wow, this shit looks awesome." They don't want to think it looks like a better looking 1080p version of what an especially good looking last gen game would've been like.

And even as I say this, there will be developers this gen, I fully believe, that will make me eat crow at 1080p on the Xbox One, and a couple immediately come to mind. I suspect Turn 10 will do it with their followups.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I'm sure it will be too. Just wanted to know more about how/why the One is in the state that it's in. Thanks friend gaz.

I wouldn't worry all that much about XBO in the long run as long as MS wakes up to the issues. PS3 was a console I despised when it first came out and it eventually became my favorite console ever. XBO will have a rough start but if they can get the exclusives polished, fully locked down, and get the price down things will turn around quick.
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
And that got me thinking yesterday about Sony's kerfuffle circa 2006. If Sony can recover from "$599" and "Giant Enemy Crabs" and get to where they are now, then I'd imagine MS could do something similar. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen but, you know, anything's possible. Naïve hope and what not.
It truly depends, but it's 100% possible, especially with as fast as they 180'd their policies. However, Sony really bit the bullet to catch up and stay competitive with the 360. They took massive losses and started amazingly generous initiatives to build faith. It will be interesting to see if MS would make those same sacrifices, because after all they're profiting/breaking even off every single console. They may sell at a rate that gives them an expected lifetime sale of 50 million console, and coast. The Xbox One is positioned to be the most profitable Xbox no matter how many boxes they sell (within reason).

Whatever happens it will be fascinating to see how far MS will go. Will they care more about being "first place" in market share, or would they rather maximize profits? Time will tell.
 
If the games look good and play good. I'll be happy.

Amen brother! I've got an X1 pre-ordered, and I'm looking forward to it. So basically, we're going to see 900p, 720p, and 1080p games on the X1. There are already two titles confirmed at 1080p for the X1 and a couple more rumored to be. I'm not questioning Mr. CBOAT, but I would imagine that X1 users will see more 1080p games down the road, not less.

Anyway, the best my current gaming TV can do is 720p, and after spending roughly $1000 at launch (console+games+new head-set), I don't see a new 1080p TV for me til' maybe this time next year.

I wish everyone the best...whatever console you choose.
 

stew

Member
Two different resolutions with all other settings the same would literally just be changing a couple values.
Indeed, but the game would look clearly different and the difference would be noticeable. If they don't want the differences to be that noticeable, does this mean a lot of work? Is this in their interest?
 
I'm sure it will be too. Just wanted to know more about how/why the One is in the state that it's in. Thanks friend gaz.

Because brands and companies are run by humans, and we make mistakes.

If MS took Apple seriously a few years ago like Google/Samsung instead of laughing them off, they'd be in a completely different position now.

And Apple/Google are closing in on MS's biggest fort (Office) faster than MS I'd closing the mobile gap.
 

vpance

Member
Fffffffuuuuuuuuuuu. That is insane! You'd think that by the time second and third gen games arrive, devs will have figured out how to work at least 1080p 30fps on every XBO game.

It can be figured out as far as a fat man can figure out how to fit into size 28 jeans :p
 

nictron

Member
Amen brother! I've got an X1 pre-ordered, and I'm looking forward to it. So basically, we're going to see 900p, 720p, and 1080p games on the X1. There are already two titles confirmed at 1080p for the X1 and a couple more rumored to be. I'm not questioning Mr. CBOAT, but I would imagine that X1 users will see more 1080p games down the road, not less.

Anyway, the best my current gaming TV can do is 720p, and after spending roughly $1000 at launch (console+games+new head-set), I don't see a new 1080p TV for me til' maybe this time next year.

I wish everyone the best...whatever console you choose.

You sir are not a very Vicious Possum, actually rather pleasant.
 

Spongebob

Banned
Amen brother! I've got an X1 pre-ordered, and I'm looking forward to it. So basically, we're going to see 900p, 720p, and 1080p games on the X1. There are already two titles confirmed at 1080p for the X1 and a couple more rumored to be. I'm not questioning Mr. CBOAT, but I would imagine that X1 users will see more 1080p games down the road, not less.

Anyway, the best my current gaming TV can do is 720p, and after spending roughly $1000 at launch (console+games+new head-set), I don't see a new 1080p TV for me til' maybe this time next year.

I wish everyone the best...whatever console you choose.
Prepare to be disappointed.
 

Gaz_RB

Member
I asked in a different thread but...is that even possible? Could we see MS overclock the shit out of xb1 and slowly release better specs in future reiterations of the console?

It won't happen. Consumers don't care enough about graphics for it to change. As long as XB1 can deliver the games in the next year or two, it'll be just fine. COD is falling, and the next big franchise is just around the corner. Might be Titanfall, might be Destiny, might be something else. But as long as Xbox has games like Halo, the small graphics gap won't matter enough for them to do something this crazy.
 

DogMeat77

Member
Amen brother! I've got an X1 pre-ordered, and I'm looking forward to it. So basically, we're going to see 900p, 720p, and 1080p games on the X1. There are already two titles confirmed at 1080p for the X1 and a couple more rumored to be. I'm not questioning Mr. CBOAT, but I would imagine that X1 users will see more 1080p games down the road, not less.

Anyway, the best my current gaming TV can do is 720p, and after spending roughly $1000 at launch (console+games+new head-set), I don't see a new 1080p TV for me til' maybe this time next year.

I wish everyone the best...whatever console you choose.

Holy hell. Watch yourself... I have a taste for delicious
o
possum steaks. ;)

Only Sony learned from Sony this time around.

This fellow speaks the truth. I've worked for and with big corporations my entire life. Everyone likes to talk about the "Nintendo bubble" but a lot of corporations only learn from THEIR mistakes... not their competitors. Can't see the forest for the trees.

I can't speak specifically for Microsoft but I can't imagine they are any different.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Indeed, but the game would look clearly different and noticeable. If they don't want the differences to be that noticeable, does this mean a lot of work? Is this in their interest?

We already know of a few games with resolution differences between PS4 and XBO. Aside from that, resolution differences were pretty common this gen. I don't exactly know by what you're asking about it being a lot of work. It's a compromise to get the framerate and effects the same on both platforms. Depending on the game they could decide to cut back on resolution, AA, effects, or some combination of settings in order to get the closest approximation of the intended result.
 

Bsigg12

Member
See, I'm as positive about the Xbox One and it's capabilities as just about anyone here, and I think I have good reason to be based on what I've heard from a friend working on the system, but I can't believe people believe that rubbish over there. I'm almost certain it's someone intentionally making fun of them.

They haven't seen that this guy keeps moving the goal posts all over the place? I actually tried to go over there and read some stuff once, and I quickly got a headache trying to follow all this stuff. It's insane, and what makes it tougher is reading the comments section. A lot of genuinely cool people that are totally being misled by this individual, who I'm 100% convinced is having conversations with himself, and not some "insider."

I only go there for laughs. His "insider" has to be him with some of the things he posts.

Like you I'm being positive about the Xbox One based on what my friend who's in the internal beta for Microsoft has seen over the last few months. The system has improved drastically with every update they issue so I'm hopeful they know they've made some huge mistakes and have to really work to fix it.

They're going/are to get/getting chastised for being the weaker system but if they can deliver great experiences on the platform (games, the media stuff is just a bonus to me) then I'll be OK with it being a Microsoft exclusive only console and my PS4 getting the majority of my multiplats.
 

Zee-Row

Banned
It always seemed like Microsoft had this better understanding of what developers wanted with hardware with the Original Xbox and 360. Now it seems like they have "Kutaragi's" doing their hardware designs.
 
See, CBOAT isn't all doom & gloom.

And 720-900p will be the norm for launch, right? Not the for the life of the XBO?
Devs will always drop the resolution to keep the bells and whistles the same hoping no one will notice.

PS4 will be the multiplatform console of next generation and it won't be like this gens "OH ITS MISSING A BUSH" it will be noticeable in all aspects of the game.
 
See, I'm as positive about the Xbox One and it's capabilities as just about anyone here, and I think I have good reason to be based on what I've heard from a friend working on the system, but I can't believe people believe that rubbish over there.

I'm 100% convinced is having conversations with himself, and not some "insider."
Your last sentence is how I feel about your first one, no offense.

Anyways, I really appreciate insiders like CBOAT and Proelite. And famous standing in front of yesterday's shitstorm. Crazy.
 
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