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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better

Chobel

Chobel

Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
no fucikn shit

Aab
abgosuteylut nopthi nyou $aid made a lick so fsense.
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oh-snap.gif
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
oflaherty01 said:
But why, it's my conjecture. Please give me more than "Just stop." We know the max outputs in each of the console pipelines, and we know the power outputs. I am not talking about just graphical fidelity here, I am talking in game mechanics, load times, and advantages that could be used by first parties on either console. I haven't looked as in depth into the ps4 pipeline, so I gave a light conjecture and maybe I should not have given one at all.
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Why would a comparatively more powerful yet less exotic set up be a curse in any manner?
 
T

TheExecutive

Member
KoopaTheCasual said:
I wonder how GAF is going to react when we see the first 900p game in the PS4's lifetime? Yes, it's a machine primed for 1080p, but don't game resolutions tend to drop over a console's lifetime as devs try to push visuals to their peak?

Just wanna throw that out there so people are prepared for the inevitable day. 1080 will always be the norm, tho.
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Probably too busy laughing about the xbones 640p display if I had to guess.
 
A

Aussie Legend

Banned
So ESRAM is basically CELL-lite for devs ay? Powerful but no one outside first party devs are really gonna utilise it to its full potential, for most it will just be a pain.

Microsoft and Sony really have switched places :/
 
R

rjinaz

Member
oflaherty01 said:
But why, it's my conjecture. Please give me more than "Just stop." We know the max outputs in each of the console pipelines, and we know the power outputs. I am not talking about just graphical fidelity here, I am talking in game mechanics, load times, and advantages that could be used by first parties on either console. I haven't looked as in depth into the ps4 pipeline, so I gave a light conjecture and maybe I should not have given one at all.
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Nah don't feel that way. There are plenty of us that enjoy reading the thoughts of others, even though we may disagree with them, especially posts in which a lot of thought went into them.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
supersanni said:
Your last sentence is how I feel about your first one, no offense.

Anyways, I really appreciate insiders like CBOAT and Proelite. And famous standing in front of yesterday's shitstorm. Crazy.
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That's fine, but that's how I knew for a fact that a downclock to the Xbox One GPU wasn't happening, and was willing to take a perma ban if wrong. That wasn't a guess or a real risk that I was taking :p

Still, I'm fine with people being skeptical. I'm certainly no "insider," and I don't leak information. I just have a good friend that works in first party development that tells me stuff from time to time when we talk. Obviously I don't expect them to bad mouth the system they're working on exclusively, but what they tell me I feel confident I can take to the bank on the possibilities for the system.
 
I

ironcreed

Banned
NoMoreTrolls said:
I definitely agree. I hope and believe that this PR nightmare will lead to a focused Microsoft push to regain the hearts and minds of gamers, thus leading to more software on the market.

Looking forward to this next console generation.
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I hope they regain some focus from this mess as well. They need to drop the price, offer some great deals and come out with a horde of killer exclusives in order to win the hearts of many back. But then of course they have a different philosophy behind the entire design of this console, with a huge focus on Kinect, services and TV. I don't think they are just going to throw in the towel on all of that... unless it is a total failure a few years down the line.
 
Z

Zatoichi's Cane

Member
I wish someone with some thread creation skills (not me) would start a thread about people who have/had xbone preorders and how they will proceed in the upcoming weeks given the information we've had about the xbone.
Preferably by someone who is a bone fan so it doesn't seem like a sony fan gloating about the recent events.

I would love to hear an honest discussion about what people are going to do with their preorders, and wether they accept that the upcoming generation will be populated with 720/900p games.

Someone please make this happen. :)
 
M

Matt

Member
oflaherty01 said:
But why, it's my conjecture. Please give me more than "Just stop." We know the max outputs in each of the console pipelines, and we know the power outputs. I am not talking about just graphical fidelity here, I am talking in game mechanics, load times, and advantages that could be used by first parties on either console. I haven't looked as in depth into the ps4 pipeline, so I gave a light conjecture and maybe I should not have given one at all.
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Ignoring the fact that, again, your technical analysis is completely without merit (or coherency), your ascribing reasons for the Xbox's design that simply didn't exist. It has ESRAM because is uses DDR3, and it uses DDR3 because Microsoft wanted 8 GB for it's larger media ambitions and using DDR3 was (wrongly) thought to be the only way to accomplish that.
 
T

TheExecutive

Member
Aussie Legend said:
So ESRAM is basically CELL-lite for devs ay? Powerful but no one outside first party devs are really gonna utilise it to its full potential, for most it will just be a pain.

Microsoft and Sony really have switched places :/
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No it's nothing like the cell. Devs will utilize it but it will make little difference. The ESRAM is to make up for shortfalls in the architecture.
 
D

Dreamgazer

Member
Aussie Legend said:
So ESRAM is basically CELL-lite for devs ay? Powerful but no one outside first party devs are really gonna utilise it to its full potential, for most it will just be a pain.

Microsoft and Sony really have switched places :/
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I seriously hope there isn't going to be a new trend of comparing SRAMs to a processor.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Aussie Legend said:
So ESRAM is basically CELL-lite for devs ay? Powerful but no one outside first party devs are really gonna utilise it to its full potential, for most it will just be a pain.

Microsoft and Sony really have switched places :/
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The analogy lies in difficulty to utilise it, not so much in hidden power. When utilised well the Cell enabled the PS3 to match and/or exceed the 360's overall performance; the ESRAM will never do that. All it does is make up for the lower bandwidth of the main RAM pool in the XB1.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
soul creator said:
I'd actually be curious if someone attempts to take the cell phone approach to game consoles. MS already flirted with it with the subsidized model.

They'd have to be pretty strict about enforcing game compatibility though, and it would definitely be a long-shot (and mostly unprecedented in the console world)
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Kind of what Steam is trying to do no?
 
G

Gaz_RB

Member
shinra-bansho said:
What does one do when someone's post is just one big flawed argument and baseless conjecture, though?
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I'd say help him understand where he's wrong and actually explain what esram really does and why it wouldn't work in the cases he described. Just some substance. But I understand that takes a lot of work sometimes. The dude obviously thought he was telling the truth. If someone really explained esram and why Xbox chose to go with it, I'd be happy to know, as I have no idea and I don't claim to.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
m0dus said:
Not enough frothing negativity?

While I simply don't agree with his technical points (very reductive and factually ridiculous) nothing warrants the dismissive attitude. Really, I'll take a reasoned approach over the ridiculous shitslinging that has pervaded the talk the last two days, even if it's something I find inherently incorrect.

Or maybe I've simply read too much 'HURR DURR XBONE' and 'LOL KILLZONE LOOKS LIKE SHIT' drivel...:)
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What he said. :)

NoMoreTrolls said:
Never seen CBoaT so confrontational. It's interesting, to say the least.
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That's what happens when he gets to the office and finds out that all the coffee is finished, and all the jelly donuts and danishes are also finished.
 
P

Project Alice

Banned
Microsoft needs is Robbie Bach and J. Allard back. Harrison helps, he seems like he genuinely cares about the games ecosystem. MS needs to reach outside of the MS walls and scoop up a couple of prodigies to lead the XBOX division into the future.

Let's hope this console cycle doesn't run 8 years, and it shouldn't as this time they're not starting in the hole on hardware like last gen. (Well PS4 is, but it's about to print some Nintendo style money soon on PS+ sales).
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
no fucikn shit

Aab
abgosuteylut nopthi nyou $aid made a lick so fsense.
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Matt said:
Ignoring the fact that, again, your technical analysis is completely without merit (or coherency), your ascribing reasons for the Xbox's design that simply didn't exist. It has ESRAM because is uses DDR3, and it uses DDR3 because Microsoft wanted 8 GB for it's larger media ambitions and using DDR3 was (wrongly) thought to be the only way to accomplish that.
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This thread is not going well for oflaherty

Never discount the boat or the matt
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Gaz_RB said:
I'd say help him understand where he's wrong and actually explain what esram really does and why it wouldn't work in the cases he described. Just some substance. But I understand that takes a lot of work sometimes. The dude obviously thought he was telling the truth. If someone really explained esram and why Xbox chose to go with it, I'd be happy to know, as I have no idea and I don't claim to.
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This is why:
Matt said:
Ignoring the fact that, again, your technical analysis is completely without merit (or coherency), your ascribing reasons for the Xbox's design that simply didn't exist. It has ESRAM because is uses DDR3, and it uses DDR3 because Microsoft wanted 8 GB for it's larger media ambitions and using DDR3 was (wrongly) thought to be the only way to accomplish that.
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It's been very obvious throughout, really. Overarching business goals, that extend beyond just gaming, have influenced the design from the outset. Not some weird wishful thinking about how it's better for cinematic experiences.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
SenjutsuSage said:
I have always said this from the very beginning, but people only like to target the parts of my posts that they don't like, and misinterpret the entirety of what I'm saying. It's just that in addition to that I've been saying that ESRAM has benefits to the system outside of the obvious bandwidth benefits based on what my friend has told me about work they're doing on the system. No more, no less.
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This the first for me that I see you mention eSRAM negatively.
 
Z

Zephyx

Member
The Flash said:
Desperate MS is best MS as the saying goes. In a really weird way, I'm kinda glad all of this crap has happened. MS as a whole has been slipping for years. I think the triple hit of the Xbox One snafu, Windows 8 (which I'm using now), and the Surface RT (which is on my nightstand right next to me) will snap them out of the funk that they've been in. A little bit sad to see Ballmer go because he was goofy and seemed like a cool guy but at least Mattrick is gone. I think they're heading in the right direction but only time will tell.
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They are still not desperate enough when it comes to the Xbox though. That price and pack-in Kinect is still there. Is MS earning profit for each Xbox One sold?
 
NoMoreTrolls

NoMoreTrolls

Banned
m0dus said:
I see complete sentences and proper punctuation so, no, it's not exactly incoherent. Factually wrong, certainly, but not the level of, say, a drunk YouTube commenter.

But offer up more than a figurative 'fuck off' now and then, if it's not a blatant troll. Really, there's nothing any more or less accurate than half the shit people spin who have little technical inclination toward what these machines can do, be it positive, negative, or hopelessly lost. Point out the flaw in the argument--then, like magic, you have a discussion going.
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C

crazy buttocks on a train

quite possibly the greatest username
m0dus said:
I see complete sentences and proper punctuation so, no, it's not exactly incoherent. Factually wrong, certainly, but not the level of, say, a drunk YouTube commenter.

But offer up more than a figurative 'fuck off' now and then, if it's not a blatant troll. Really, there's nothing any more or less accurate than half the shit people spin who have little technical inclination toward what these machines can do, be it positive, negative, or hopelessly lost. Point out the flaw in the argument--then, like magic, you have a discussion going.
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IMsory ndont banplees ;but tha whoel post was nfpixeldust

Iwil PM datils on esram to u or evil or bish nf need be,
 
H

Hattori

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
What does one do when someone's post is just one big flawed argument and baseless conjecture, though?
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Ignoring it would probably be the best choice if one is not up to making an effort in refuting those flawed arguments. I mean quoting a long post just to say "just stop" doesn't really add anything meaningful to the conversation.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Gaz_RB said:
I'd say help him understand where he's wrong and actually explain what esram really does and why it wouldn't work in the cases he described. Just some substance. But I understand that takes a lot of work sometimes. The dude obviously thought he was telling the truth. If someone really explained esram and why Xbox chose to go with it, I'd be happy to know, as I have no idea and I don't claim to.
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Yeah, I always think this is the best route. Unless the poster clearly is just being absurd, this guy - even though he's very wrong - put effort into his thoughts and deserves the respect to analyze his position fairly. Even though I can say most of his points are wrong, it is more interesting to explain why. :)
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Thanks to oflaherty, we have CBoaT and Matt commenting in this thread.
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crazy buttocks on a train said:
IMsory ndont banplees ;but tha whoel post was nfpixeldust

Iwil PM datils on esram to u or evil or bish nf need be,
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Again, thank you oflaherty
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
Chobel said:
This the first for me that I see you mention eSRAM negatively.
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I don't think that's me referencing it negatively, personally. I've always acknowledged that it would be a challenge for developers, and they would have to think more carefully about how they manage what they put in thee, and what they don't, and when compared to the much more straightforward and simple architecture of the PS4. I've just always said it in a more longwinded fashion, rather than cutting to the chase.

If someone had said ESRAM is a complete piece of shit and way worse than the 360's EDRAM or something, then I would've disagreed, but he didn't really say that. :)
 
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