-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Square Enix's new plan: Eidos focus = online games; Japan accelerating work on phones
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
BlazingRain
Banned
The thread title is a lie.
It's a shame that mods can get away with this on this site, but apparently Japanese devs are fair game on NeoGAF.
it's a well they seem to have forgotten they poisoned a while back when they said a million sales of a DS port of chrono trigger meant no-one wanted more Chrono games
I really hope XV and Drakengard are: A: Good and B: Succesful because they're at least vaguely in the direction I want SE to go
I think honestly, people do, just without Lightning. It's a game made quickly, on a moderate budget, with lots of side quests, an open world, an interesting OST, and a neat battle system.
If you really don't want to give the game a shot at all, that's totally your right. Skip it.
But LR is a good sign for the future of SQEX console RPGs, and if it sells, it only helps show SQEX that people want their games on consoles. They've said over and over that Lightning's trilogy is done. So, it wouldn't be "showing support" for that. They're moving on regardless.
Anyway, up to you. I think a lot of people might end up being surprised if LR ends up being a fun RPG. I'm importing it, so if you want more impressions, I'll post mine somewhere on here I'm sure: spoiler free of course.
There's also Drakengard 3 to support, if you're more interested in that. Or FFX and X-2 on PS3 and Vita.
I have to say, the general impressions that SE PR spits out are not that impressive. However with XV, KH3, BD, BD:Sequel there seems to be a fair bit of promise.
Hopefully what is happening (and unseen) is a shift to a conglomerate based business. It pretty much already is. So many fans get invested to the extent you would think they were shareholders. But the matter is that most of their PR is more focused towards the shareholders who are interested in SE breaking into new markets. Obviously they have had troubles were their historic strengths lied, but nothing tells me that they can't get things properly rolling again.
Hopefully what is happening (and unseen) is a shift to a conglomerate based business. It pretty much already is. So many fans get invested to the extent you would think they were shareholders. But the matter is that most of their PR is more focused towards the shareholders who are interested in SE breaking into new markets. Obviously they have had troubles were their historic strengths lied, but nothing tells me that they can't get things properly rolling again.
There are way better ways to say that you disagree with something. And know that we would be less without the enthusiast in the world. Be it an abnormal love for games, Devs, Poki or whatever they actually bring something to the table. Ignoring them or labeling them stupid or ignorant is just as bad as Francis made flesh.
If anything attack the ones you don't agree with with some logic, as you did earlier with pointing out how many Western Journos has totally disregarded this genre and labeling it with terribad status and at the same time worshipping Shooty Bang Bangs(not the latest CoD thou
)EDIT: Too late :/ Is it just me that is afraid of the mods? And I mean afraid as when you were in highschool and Saw Aliens for the first time?
Even without Lightning, the type of game that LR is makes me believe that it's an extremely niche title. Having said that, it's easy to say there's an audience. There's an audience for almost any game lol.
1: Holding you to that.
2. I share the same view.
From Nowhere: Anyone here that actually lives in the Tier 1 Countries where SE actually markets their games? The only "form" of market I've seen in Sweden is an Exclusive interview with one of our best gaming mags(some would argue only). And that is usually the way it is. The other form of "marketing" is a newsletter I have to sign up for myself but nothing else.
No problem! Going to go through it on winter break, and I'll definitely be talking about what I think of the gameplay.
I don't have cable TV anymore, so I can't really say but I don't think they spend much on marketing unless it's a huge game. They did for XIII, for sure, even with some NBA tie-ins. Also MS was pushing XIII a lot since they fought for a 360 version so hard. I think we'll see a lot of marketing for XV, without question. Probably KH3 as well.
They buy ad space on gaming sites like Kotaku and Destructoid from time to time too. They also do lots of sales, and utilize PS+ regularly. I wouldn't be surprised if Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, and Hitman all got some above average marketing. Deus Ex and Tomb Raider in particular. All 3 got very nice CG trailers from their Visual Works studio in Japan.
They do some interesting stuff for other games too. They had a whole live action mini-movie thing on youtube for Sleeping Dogs that I kind of enjoyed more than I expected.
Ahhh so it is you! I wondered the same thing in a previous thread but you must've missed it. Do you remember me? I used to go by the name PS1 and changed to TimeNeverRests soon after, then left when the redesign happened.
Yep! I definitely remember you
. I miss old Kotaku. Used to have some really great debates and conversations on there.I stuck around until Kinja, which was just the final nail in the coffin for me.
Dv8thwonder
Banned
MOBILEOCRITY
Yes they were good times (I also remember the guy that used to have the black mage as his avatar that got banned and the girl with the Tifa avatar lol, who is still on there I think). Can't believe it's nearly been 4 years since I was on there, time sure flies.Yep! I definitely remember you
I stuck around until Kinja, which was just the final nail in the coffin for me.
It was the very first gaming forum I took part in. Then the redesign happened and I just lurked at Joystiq for 2 and a half years until finding GAF at this past E3. Now I think to myself why didn't I just find GAF 4 years ago haha this place is brilliant.
May the debates and conversations continue here!
Square-Enix does absolutely deserve every bit of vitriolic response that they have received over the last four years. Every single time we get a thread with news about them, it's almost certainly, without fail, bad news. Every time they announce a new browser or mobile game, every time they decide to murder a legacy IP that we want a new installment of, every time Toriyama can't get over his Lightning
Square-Enix has done more damage to their own brands than we could ever hope to accomplish. We will stop giving them shit when they stop churning out shit.
Edit: Can you make one for Freya - Ether Strike?
Sorry, ain't got a video capture of it.
Nice links. For serious. (except for the p4gaming one. Joke site)
I really miss Square being awesome.
Pyrrhus
Member
Hiroki Kikuta's Sacnoth, the one that did Koudelka back on PS1? They reformed as Nautilus in the early PS2 era and did the three Shadow Hearts games. Then that collapsed and many of them became feelplus which was then eaten by AQ Interactive, which in turn became Marvelous AQL. In short, Sacnoth has died many deaths at this point.
The12thGripper
Member
Remember when that reform was supposed to help SE get more sales? Yeah, guess they didn't get the memo. Welp, as long as I still get my KH titles on home consoles; I'm good.
I was going to respond to it all thoughtfully, but you linked to a thread about a fake article about Toriyama ...
Did you know it was a joke article?
Anyway, I disagree with just about everything you said. They don't deserve all the hate they get. They do put out good products, XIV: ARR being the latest. And no, not every thread is bad news, but it's certainly not for a lack of people trying to make it bad.
Ah, come on. All of this is trivial compared to the realities surrounding SE itself. Many are down on SE, and yes, lots of exaggerations have been thrown around ("SE is dead" being a more prominent one in this particular thread), but SE brought it all on themselves. Their treatment of the FF franchise this generation has been abysmal: XIII was a uniquely polarizing title, going in a controversial direction and being a very mixed bag in terms of execution; even so, in the end around a decade of development time was put into the XIII universe, and it turned out to be the sole representative of single player FF for an entire generation; Type-0 never made an appearance in the West, and Versus XIII never made an appearance at all; FFXIV was a complete disaster; and mobile games like ATB dragged the brand through the mud still further.
The emphasis on online and mobile devices is obviously understandably controversial, too. It doesn't help that much of their mobile showings have been complete trash. Fans don't believe in these games, and nor do they believe in this business model. You can argue SE is simply doing their best to make money, but personally, I see no evidence for anything besides a reactionary, shortsighted, uninspired policy that may minimize costs but ultimately leaves extremely little room for real growth.
And there's been plenty of other obvious missteps. Their expectations for games like Tomb Raider and Deus Ex: Human Revolution were ridiculous. Their handling of the Kingdom Hearts franchise was also rather poor. And so forth.
I know none of this actually bears repeating. But I find it very strange you're putting this emphasis on fan reaction, while downplaying SE's responsibility. There really is no smear campaign. There is only perception colored by an extremely disappointing generation. In my mind, this is pretty much the feedback SE deserves, and it's up to them if they want to listen to it or not. If anything, it seems this "smear campaign's" message is unfortunately reaching deaf ears.
I did not know it was a joke article. But do you blame me for thinking it might be real? I'd be jumping for joy if half those threads were based on fake articles to be honest.
Ignore the joke article then, please go on to post what you would have omitting that article.
Not all those threads were bad news, but perception is reality, and for the majority of long time Square-Enix fans (or at least, for me), mobile/browser/iOS games are perceived as bad news.
Dirk Benedict
Member
I share the same sentiments.
Well I never said anything was a conspiracy, so that's just inaccurate. I did say it's a smear campaign. At this point, it's driven by popularity, and habit more than anything, not planning in a dark smoky room.
I admitted that SQEX has had lots of management issues, that I'm skeptical about the value of online enabled games, so I never said they're flawlessly on the right track. But that doesn't mean they're dead, or doing every single thing wrong either. They have put out a lot of good games and have shown improvement in several areas.
As far as buying Lightning Returns? I said skip it if you don't want it, but it looks like a fun console RPG. If people show SQEX they will buy console RPGs, it doesn't fix all their problems. But it does show them there's a market for it, and the game doing well can only help if your goal is to encourage them to put games on consoles.
"Crazy."
A little bit ... yeah. If it's an honest mistake, no biggie. But yeah, the fact that you weren't sure just kind of shows how exaggerated things get around here.
In reality, Lightning was barely the star of XIII. She was not the star of XIII-2, and LR is her first game in a true leading role. For a director supposedly "obsessed" with her, he has yet to really make her the focus of a single game until now.
You admit not all the threads are bad news, so we can agree there. We got XIV ARR exceeding expectations, helping prove the viability of subscription models, just this week. We got a Drakengard 3 announcement and localization announcement. We got encouragement about the possibility of XII HD. We got reassured that they will never give up top tier gaming. We got hints that XV will have sequels. We got little bits of new KH3 gameplay. We got the surprise that FFX HD is not just X but has a whole additional game with it, and that Eternal Calm and the other thing are coming over, and that they have a bonus 30 minute ending after X-2. We got Bravely Default being localized, and it being the updated version. We got Luminous engine news, and were told it should speed up development and make things easier. We got news about the PS4 being substantially easier to work with. We got news about Deus Ex, Hitman, and Tomb Raider sequels progressing, despite their unrealistic sales estimates on the first games. We got a KH 2.5 announcement, and confirmation about localization. We got news about Thief getting adjustments removing experience points so old school fans might like it more. We even got some heavy encouragement about the possibility of Type-0 and Agito in the west. And on and on and on and on. I could keep going.
Yes, we got lots of bad news too. And yes, they put out a lot of smartphone games, often just publishing them from other developers. Some of them have been awful. Some look like they were pretty decent, like Bloodmasque, Drakerider, Chaos Rings, FF: Dimensions, TWEWY Remix, and Agito.
I'm not saying they have zero blame. I'm saying that people exaggerate things a lot. Really my only point here.
And there are things to be optimistic about. XV and KH3 should be pretty amazing. If they sell well, they will make more. They want to.
I wasn't just talking about you. But if everyone buys Lighting Returns, that won't tell SE what you think it will tell them. It will tell them we want more Lighting, because they're desperately looking for a sign we do.
Stone Ocean
Member
Why wouldn't we?
The quality of the XIII plot might be debatable - and I vote for ehhh - but gameplay wise? They are right on the mark. XIII might have been super linear and claustrophobic but the battle system was excellent. XIII-2 does the exploration thing much better while expanding a bit on what made XIII fun. They might not be the best RPGs Square has put out but they are far from the worst.
I'm not asking for XV level megaproductions every other year, I just want whatever talent Square has left working on what they do best. I'll take projects like Lightning Returns gladly because this is basically the closest we'll get to Romancing SaGa style projects with current Square
I find it really hard to believe they're going to be completely abandoning the kind of games SE built their legacy on. We might not get a lot of them seeing as how the resources required to make a blockbuster game have tripled, but we're still going to get them because the audience IS there. So, I don't understand all the doom and gloom posts.
The reality is, in Japan, mobile gaming is about ten times the size of console gaming. That's a market SE needs to capitalize on to remain relevant. There's more money to be made there at a lower cost.
Console gaming is a niche now. Get used to it.
The reality is, in Japan, mobile gaming is about ten times the size of console gaming. That's a market SE needs to capitalize on to remain relevant. There's more money to be made there at a lower cost.
Console gaming is a niche now. Get used to it.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'd like a Square RPG without Lightning in it. But I guess that's why I picked up Deus Ex HR. And good thing too if Eidos is going the online only route.
Yes thinking about Kikuta and and the whole Koudelka team together with the peeps that jumped in to make Shadow Heart, more specifically Matsuzo Itakura.
I can't really argue with anything there, I feel your pain and in some way share some of it. But that doesn't mean there isn't a future for Square, I refuse to believe the majority of their company is actually developing these bastardization.
I prefer to view it as Baba said: These are not for the true fans.
Just wish Squeenix could come out and say it loud.
Because the truth of the matter is that KH3 and FFXV seems to be really large projects(assuming don't really have enough meat to say it) and they should have learned by now not to announce a new game a decade before it's release.
oh oh and before I forget I'm a believer in Shahid so I'm pretty damn sure we'll finally get THAT game.
And before we forget the handhelds. It's a possibility that these are actually the only future for RPGs as they are cheaper to develop for and I love my handhelds and see no problem in it. My own assumption btw.
"I'll accept shit because we arent going to get better than shit"
you arent going to get better than shit because you accept shit.
SE are not some tiny little indie company that just need your support.
They're a giant corporation that's complacent and lazy because they can make money off minimal effort. Thats WHY they're moving to mobile games. because some of you love the "brand" and not the actual games. so why the fuck would they bother spending $100m to make a game when you'll just as happily buy some iOS shit they made for $4 with clipart of old games because you love the "brand" and want to support the "brand"
you arent going to get better than shit because you accept shit.
SE are not some tiny little indie company that just need your support.
They're a giant corporation that's complacent and lazy because they can make money off minimal effort. Thats WHY they're moving to mobile games. because some of you love the "brand" and not the actual games. so why the fuck would they bother spending $100m to make a game when you'll just as happily buy some iOS shit they made for $4 with clipart of old games because you love the "brand" and want to support the "brand"
Is handheld gaming niche in Japan too? Because their output for handhelds has also significantly decreased. Though it may be my perception as a North American gamer, considering we have heard absolutely jack shit about Dragon Quest 3DS anything being localized. We've seen, what, three high profile 3DS games out of them over how many years the 3DS has been alive?
I'd also like to make a note to all those praising Bravely Default as something Square-Enix has graciously given us: We are getting that game in spite of Square-Enix. Nintendo is likely the one that wanted to bring that game over, SE couldn't be assed to do it themselves. Just like DQ IX.
MoogleWizard
Member
=( I will never get my Chrono Break, right?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yes Nintendo is publishing. And likely used their own translation teams.
There is Deus Ex: The Fall for iOS.
They have a lot of mobile games that aren't based off old games. Surprise surprise.
From their iOS line-up specifically, probably around half are ports of great old games and the rest original content. Though I do agree they need to cut it out with the GREE/mobage/etc games.
Stone Ocean
Member
They already have one on the works.
No, the sequel is still coming. Same with Tomb Raider, and Hitman. I wouldn't be surprised to see something at E3 considering that they've already mentioned it publicly.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Good night sweet prince.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
"SE proudly present Deux Ex: Commando, be part of the new online entry on the Deus Ex universe. Customize your augmented soldier and participate in incredible battles alongsinde your friends. Share info with the exclusive Deus Ex: The Fall 2 on iOS to get exclusive items. The best of all? Is free-to-play!"
This thread is so depressing I seriously need a stiff drink when I come home. But yes, Once again I press that I share many of your concerns but why are you blind to the good news? Only seeing the bad? I'm quoting a few things that, imo, is not ok.
It took 9 pages of similar writing before any form of discussion started. With valid points on both sides, still some refused to see the positive as this
Seriously not ok imo.
Here let me point out a few bonuses everyone seems to ignore. Going to Hijack your input Shinta.
But hey lets all focus on just the bad aspects of SE's development life. If anything Shintas post should make you all think once more.
If so we have a far too different worldview and will concede this point and ignore further discussion with those who refuse to acknowledge the fact that we still have many games coming for us.
PS. Buy a handheld and play Atelier damnit!
It took 9 pages of similar writing before any form of discussion started. With valid points on both sides, still some refused to see the positive as this
Seriously not ok imo.
Here let me point out a few bonuses everyone seems to ignore. Going to Hijack your input Shinta.
But hey lets all focus on just the bad aspects of SE's development life. If anything Shintas post should make you all think once more.
- Is this company really dead?
- Are they really just focusing on mobile games?
If so we have a far too different worldview and will concede this point and ignore further discussion with those who refuse to acknowledge the fact that we still have many games coming for us.
PS. Buy a handheld and play Atelier damnit!
graywolf323
Member
I really really dislike the new CEO
Deckard Cain
Banned
I dont want FFXV to have sequels. I dont want ONE FF universe per generation.
many places
Member
Thats the sleeping dogs sequel right?
god fucking damnitWe got 2 this generation, so I'm sure we'd get at least that. And they had to remake one of them, and it was an MMO. So we might get 3. You never know really.
Sequels will almost surely happen regardless though, because it's just too expensive to not reuse that base to make other games.
problem is that thief will most probably not be a good game (i had the chance to try it and was underwhelmed). Lightning Returns is only something for fans and having seen the decline in sales from XIII to XIII-2 there can only be another decline. I dont know the expectations of the Deus Ex Enhanced edition but I dont think the sales will be astonishing. Anyway, all these hardcore single player games will fail to meet expectations so Square-Enix will go even more in this misguided direction that they need more smartphone and more f2p. When instead they need to focus on delivering game experiences that are good enough for the mass market core gamer; although I got to admit that many of these games are normally multiplayer games (but not all).
I see it coming this way:
core games (especially thief, lightning returns. other games also below expectations) fail to deliver. square will focus even more on social, f2p and multiplayer. (after a year or two) Square sees these things are tricky as well and tries a few new ideas in more classical games for consoles. Sees success and core games for core systems will regain market share.
I see it coming this way:
core games (especially thief, lightning returns. other games also below expectations) fail to deliver. square will focus even more on social, f2p and multiplayer. (after a year or two) Square sees these things are tricky as well and tries a few new ideas in more classical games for consoles. Sees success and core games for core systems will regain market share.
Similar threads
- Locked