TheFurizzlyBear
Member
I don't understand this, both Forza 4 and Horizon had the tokens. The only difference is that they don't give you free cars for leveling this time. Why are people freaking out about this now?
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An incorherant rant about microtransactions on full priced titles. [Forza 5]
- Thread starter Delusibeta
- Start date
Voice of the People, Jim Sterling, sums up my own views better than I could: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6755-Breaking-the-Bones-of-Business
afternoon delight
Member
.
If it didn't sell, they wouldn't do it. It burns me up so much I haven't bought a single game that offers an ecosystem like these.
Forza 3.
And it was never an issue. You could make plenty of money by doing all sorts of things.
And people keep saying to me that microtransaction wouldn't tamper with the game core design. Developer would make as it is and left microtransaction as an option for those without enough time to make their way through with money and it isn't a problem since they doing it with full consent.
Wow.
Wow.
sixteen-bit
Member
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
That's pretty gross.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
You don't care about companies making a game nearly impossible to progress through without spending additional money? Sorry, but not everyone has the time or patience to grind for 40 hours to unlock something made ridiculously hard to obtain because the publishers want to squeeze every last cent out of consumers. If they didn't go down this route of microtransactions and day 1 DLC I would be MORE willing to spend additional money on their product as a gesture of good-will.
I think this is getting massively, massively overblown.
Nothing stated in the OP(series netting about 110,000 credits, some cars costing millions) is any different from previous Forza's.
Seriously, this is pretty ridiculous and you can clearly see who plays Forza and who doesn't.
Punishment mechanics are simply unfun.
I don't mind if devs allow whales to skip the grind for cash, so long as they balance the game around not paying. Making the grind worse is indefensible.
It's a different story for f2p games because that's their only source of revenue, but that's why I don't play them, too.
I don't mind if devs allow whales to skip the grind for cash, so long as they balance the game around not paying. Making the grind worse is indefensible.
It's a different story for f2p games because that's their only source of revenue, but that's why I don't play them, too.
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
What the hell?
Somehow, someway, they really "got" what DLC is supposed to be about and even though they are new to that game, they are one of the top makers of DLC.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Yes, but Horizon has pushed it further up front with the shop and cars clearly locked away like it with enough messages telling you about it. Is 5 even more obnoxious about it?
KillerDark
Member
That sounds pretty crappy.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
.
Prophane33
Member
Exactly. Even though I feel their DLC is a little overpriced (e.g. way too close to Japanese DLC prices), they have yet to release DLC for a game I own that I wasn't like, "hmm, I could see buying that."
Triggerhappytel
Member
It's almost as if most of the professional critics don't seem to be representing our best interests any more...
Chairmanchuck
Member
This doesnt make the whole business-model good though.
phosphor112
Banned
Isn't the store system gone now and replaced by something else?
I hate it when microtransactions are advertised in-game.
Man I hope that isn't what happens in game. I really really want to enjoy Bravely Default and not be harassed constantly to buy SP.
Its optional. Going by what the reviewer said, there is no evidence that things have become 'more grindy' than they were before. So if you don't want to buy cars with real money, don't. It wont affect you whatsoever.
What store system? :/
phosphor112
Banned
The auction house...? You can make money off of it buy selling your tune ups, cars, and designs...?
. Don't you have Forza?EDIT: The point is, you don't have the extra source for income in FM5. Not that I know of.
Maybe I'm massively overblown it, but is it really the devs wouldn't be forced by the publisher to intentionally make it really hard or extended it with unnecessary grinding in order to make the microtransaction option more appealing. When a game is too grindy or too hard or both, it is the result of bad design and the way to fix it is by readjusting it. Now with microstransaction, they can keep the bad design as it is and masquerade them as an option. By OP, it is clearly stated that they increase the grind, and in the meantime they add a microstransaction option. Do you expect me to believe that the increase in "difficulty" doesn't have anything to do with the microtransaction option? Maybe I'm just too paranoid about this, but it's clearly the option is there and there is nothing for publisher from stopping them doing such thing.
Seriously, what makes you so sure that the microtransaction option doesn't have anything to do with the increase of grindiness of the game? Do you have word of god from the developer that the microtransaction wouldn't tamper with the core design of their games?
You said that there is no evidence that the game become more grindy. I could said the same too that there is no evidence otherwise that the game become less grindy or kept as it is in the very least. Grindiness tolerance of each people is different. Maybe the reivewer love it as much as you do that they don't notice the difference. There is a reason why I think game serious like this that isn't tied down by any connection to the previous installment should be reviewed with neutral stance.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
They did it in Fire Emblem 3ds,you can buy maps that give you a lot of easy money or experience.
They are just behind the curve, but they are getting there...
hypostatic
Member
Microtransactions like that really piss me off. Having said that, I do appreciate having the option of microtransactions like in AC4 that unlock a display for all of the collectable items in the game. I am very happy to pay $0.99 for that. I might even pay $4.99 for that. I like collecting things, but don't have the time to look for them!
Chairmanchuck
Member
It will affect my time though if I want to have one of the premium-cars that cost a million and I need to play 10 hours for just one car.
If I like another of the premium cars and I want it, thats another 10 hours.
Just because it was similar in the old Forza titles, doesnt really make it a good business-practice.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Which is weird because the only difference between them and us is that they get paid to give their opinions. Being a "professional" video game journalist doesn't make them any more qualified than a fellow gaffer to talk about a product. This is why I'm absolutely baffled that things like this aren't reported on, this is a HUGE deal to a lot of people.
I mean, look at the Battlefield 4 fiasco as another example. That game was essentially launched broken but I have yet to see a major media outlet call EA out on their bullshit. I'm really tired of seeing reviews pushed out the day of release in this era where the online portion of a game plays a huge role in determining the fun factor and longevity of a title.
"We have different opinions, you must be overreacting!"
Gormless Noodle
Member
I really dislike this "It's optional" line of defence. Come on now, think for just a minute. We're in a business meeting, we want more money out of our game, what is the easiest way to do this for the sequel?
We've already eased the audience into it after all, so stretching the limits just a little bit more each time, won't matter right? It's still optional after all. We're just giving everyone a choice.
We've already eased the audience into it after all, so stretching the limits just a little bit more each time, won't matter right? It's still optional after all. We're just giving everyone a choice.
Marauder Shields
Member
Yeah agreed. This didn't come from nowhere.
Microtransactions are fine in F2P. The fact that they are creeping into paid games is troublesome.
It is a hard balance to strike. I play some iOS racers and though micro transaction in asphalt 7 were perfect (mainly because I never used them) as I had at least one maxed car in every class with every available car unlocked. If you wanted a broader ranger of competitive vehicles you could buy them but they were not necessary and neither was grinding. Asphalt 8 crossed the IAP line for me with very limited selections and unfair difficulty curve that needs grinding to advance or shortcut by spending money.
If you play Forza well but don't unlock things then it will feel like a grindfest.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7811-Fee-to-Pay
It is a growing problem and just saying "meh ignore it" is part of the problem.
You could count that as microtransaction, but actually you could get pretty much anything in Hard difficulty without resorting to said DLC. It reduces the grindiness nature for building up a streetpass team. And we are not counting that the said map isn't available from get go as it is released much later unlike most microtransaction option. I would look forward to next Fire Emblem installment whether or not this particular practice affect the core design in anyway. If I can't plow through the main chapters without grinding with free battles or spotpass teams, then Nintendo indeed have jumped the boat.
I didn't know the entire storefront is gone(?), but even if so, you still make money in pretty much every mode. I don't think many people lacked for money in FM4 and only the very rarest cars were hard to attain.The auction house...? You can make money off of it buy selling your tune ups, cars, and designs...?
EDIT: The point is, you don't have the extra source for income in FM5. Not that I know of.
The evidence that its about the same is right there in the OP. If you played Forza games, you'd know. But you don't, so you're getting overly worked up about it. I can see why you'd be worried, but really, with Forza, it hasn't been an issue before and it doesn't sound any different now.
Trust me, if it was something I thought would really be terrible, I'd be the first to say it. And so would the other Forza fans. But they aren't concerned because they know that it isn't an issue.
Yes, the expensive cars will take some time to get. I don't think that's unreasonable. Its not as if you wont have plenty of other cars you can easily afford along the way, though. Its like many games - certain things will take some time and effort to get.
Hey_Blinkin
Member
I'll just summarize my rant from the review thread:
I absolutely do no want to strip away the right for someone to take advantage of the time saving options if it improves their experience. I guess in the end it all comes down to how much you trust a company to be honest in balancing the game with customer experience in mind vs the amount of money that is able to be made.
I absolutely do no want to strip away the right for someone to take advantage of the time saving options if it improves their experience. I guess in the end it all comes down to how much you trust a company to be honest in balancing the game with customer experience in mind vs the amount of money that is able to be made.
gutterboy44
Member
What bothers me with this "time saving" aspect is why does this require more money? If the developers/publishers cared about saving us time, it should just be a menu option, or better yet, a fucking game paced to not feel like a slog! It is an illusion of convenience. It is nothing more than exploiting more money from their customers. It is fucking crazy that we have hit a point where we feel the need to pay other people, who we already paid once, for the privilege of them to not further waste our time with their product.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Yeah, I always thought the "it's optional!" defense was BS.
Your options are to a) pay the toll, or b) grind it out (which was made more tedious in order to. . . encourage you to pay the toll).
Those are both GREAT options for gamers to choose from.
If you think it is as simple as this, then you are just begging to make these practices even worse. To assume that their micro transactions are only balanced around not needing to buy them only comes across as naive. I mean was forza 4's time sink justifiable? Did they decide that perhaps the time sink needed might have needed to be balanced, but instead just added micro-transactions? I'm sorry, but this kind of dlc has to effect the game, even if they "changed nothing" from one version to the next. That doesn't mean 4 didnt need timesink adjusting, it just means they decided to add micro-transactions.
phosphor112
Banned
Yep, or an item you can buy IN GAME not with real money. The Pokemon games have an item (XP Share) and you can enable to level up your pokemon faster. They also give you rollerblades (in addition to the regular bike you can unlock) to reduce the games grind significantly.
Yep.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=584531
I absolutely hate when people say "gaf is...". Seriously, stop. Out of all the people you should know better than saying we are all one entity.
Opinions how do they work?
I would have opened the topic about it if I weren't a junior member. Microtransactions in $60 games are bugging me, and the latest shocker came in a form of GT6.
I honestly never thought PD would do that.
And now Forza... Seriously, credits and the balance of it are crucial in racing games, they give a sense of reward and progression, as well as a competitive edge over other players in online, or just the bragging rights.
Now with microtransactions I feel cheated, and time I sink in the game seems in vaine.
I honestly never thought PD would do that.
And now Forza... Seriously, credits and the balance of it are crucial in racing games, they give a sense of reward and progression, as well as a competitive edge over other players in online, or just the bragging rights.
Now with microtransactions I feel cheated, and time I sink in the game seems in vaine.
Hey_Blinkin
Member
I have no answer for this. I guess i've played so many f2p iphone games that it seemed fair that they were getting money somehow. But you're right; if i've already paid them $60 it really is a completely different situation.
Animal crossing with IAPs would be so sad.
awww, shit.
Do you realize that you could live in the bubble without seeing such obvious problem? There are reasons why common people could point out basic logical fallacies in fiction that the fans and writers didn't even realized from the get go. Being not playing the game doesn't invalidate my argument that there is absolutely nothing that could stop such business model could tamper the core design. I questioned it whether or not there are any insurance that developer keep their game at it is without the transaction model in mind, which I think at the moment there is absolutely nothing to make sure of that.
If Game Freak Jumped the boat, they would make all of that as part of paid DLC. Don't want wasting time to train your team for online battles? Buy the EXP Share from store now!
This kind of practice is bullshit. If they want to reduce the grindiness of a game they should tamper the core design. If the argument that it will dumbified the game, then make it an in-game option with no extra payment required then. There is reason why difficulty option exist in the first place. Pokemon do this in the right way. I could keep it hard without turning on EXP Share during the playthrough. Keeping it behind paywall it just proof that the publisher is a crook from the start.
I don't get what you're saying. Anybody who played FM4 normally usually had plenty of money. Most cars were perfectly attainable. It was only the expensive, rare cars that would possibly require any grinding.
Ok, so you can still make money with that, then. Its just quite buying/selling like it used to be. I guess if you played these games, you'd know what was being said there.
I do know. I was making a slight jab at the person I was responding to with that.
But I was being serious about people here overreacting a lot, though. You can easily see who knows about Forza and who is just getting worked up about this one misleading quote.
Seriously, unless ALL car prices have gone up drastically in FM5, then this wont be an issue. Like I said, if it was something that was really worth getting upset about, Forza fans would be the first ones to be doing it and they're not. Because they know the deal and know that this will be an optional thing that they can safely ignore.
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