vpance
Member
That girl with the hand on her hip must've been waiting for the copy machine to finish.
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Digital Foundry: Forza 5 1080p/60FPS gameplay and performance analysis videos
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
That girl with the hand on her hip must've been waiting for the copy machine to finish.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
Wasn't there 6 cars on screen in the reveal?
I still would rather have the superior graphics & a regular 6-8 car competition than having downgraded graphics, but with 16 cars that really have no impact on the races (not with Forza's penalty free rewind feature anyways).
Well, tell that to Turn 10.
Delicious.
velociraptor
Junior Member
My point is that there are more important things to care about. Such as better lighting and shaders. Such as time of day and weather. Such as 60FPS.
sol_bad
Member
I thought games in general were meant to look better and better as development went along, not worse and worse. I can completely understand it being the start of a new generation and all but first parties at least should have their games looking better at release.
Admittedly it would be understandable for 3rd party games to look worse at release compared to when it's revealed as they won't have access to proper dev kits and most likely use PC hardware to show their games off. First parties should have access to the proper dev kits though surely!
Third parties across the board on PS4 and Xbone are worse in comparison to their reveals. First parties, I honestly don't want to bring any sort of console war into this but if you are going to talk first parties you can only use examples from both consoles.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Killzone, Knack, Drive Club and Infamous have all seen vast improvements compared to their reveals.
Forza 5 looks worse, dos this mean that Turn 10 also used over-speced PC's back at E3?
Maybe I missed the threads about Dead Rising 3 and Ryse but did they both get better or worse since their reveals?
Admittedly it would be understandable for 3rd party games to look worse at release compared to when it's revealed as they won't have access to proper dev kits and most likely use PC hardware to show their games off. First parties should have access to the proper dev kits though surely!
Third parties across the board on PS4 and Xbone are worse in comparison to their reveals. First parties, I honestly don't want to bring any sort of console war into this but if you are going to talk first parties you can only use examples from both consoles.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Killzone, Knack, Drive Club and Infamous have all seen vast improvements compared to their reveals.
Forza 5 looks worse, dos this mean that Turn 10 also used over-speced PC's back at E3?
Maybe I missed the threads about Dead Rising 3 and Ryse but did they both get better or worse since their reveals?
Ol No Bones
Banned
The cars and lighting are the best I've seen but the environment needs some serious work. Mostly the textures.
Neutralfanboy
Banned
All the reviews praise Forza's graphics yet you have people still trying to say it doesn't look that impressive. Keep those blinders on
lighting looks a lot more natural, although that's not necessarily an upgrade, rather a design choice.
A lot of those 3d buildings you'd see from the top of the hill in the distance are gone, as is the fog.
Overall, very pleased with the way the game looks and runs. AF also looks a lot better than it did in YT videos.
DAT 3D CROWD, though.
wait...
i thought i saw..
isn't that...
OMG COUNTLESS GREENAWALTS IN THE CROWD !
Motherfucker it's 2013 and we still getting this PS1 shit
I think that's the guy who pops up and says "Toasty!" or something every now and again in the old MK games. Dunno what the story is behind that though.
A lot of journalists and media tell us there's barely any noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p as well. Just sayin...
Doctor_Thomas
Member
A review is an opinion. Every reviewer in the world could say it's the best graphics ever, but it's still just an opinion. Other people may not share it, hence, some people think this looks awful, OK, good, great, or whatever they want to think.
Night and day.
hahaha
if there is one thing that makes time pass joyfully, its the console warriors fight to resist!!
why bother with the haters for anything else than laughs people?
isnt these the same people that found downgrades in ryse too? ;D
funny thing though, I thought that this game is a driving simulator, and what are its features worth pimping is VERY accurate tire data in extreme conditions, a new advanced physics calculation system, some laser scanned tracks that where most wanted for years,
and todays news should be that DF verified that its a rock solid 1080p 60hz synced and locked game....
yet
everything in discussion revolves around the least important details ever.
OMG the shadow of the third window on the left in the second building on the right, has different shadow!! game ruined total!!
so, please TEAM RESISTANCE, go on
the rest of you, lay back and enjoy
if there is one thing that makes time pass joyfully, its the console warriors fight to resist!!
why bother with the haters for anything else than laughs people?
isnt these the same people that found downgrades in ryse too? ;D
funny thing though, I thought that this game is a driving simulator, and what are its features worth pimping is VERY accurate tire data in extreme conditions, a new advanced physics calculation system, some laser scanned tracks that where most wanted for years,
and todays news should be that DF verified that its a rock solid 1080p 60hz synced and locked game....
yet
everything in discussion revolves around the least important details ever.
OMG the shadow of the third window on the left in the second building on the right, has different shadow!! game ruined total!!
so, please TEAM RESISTANCE, go on
the rest of you, lay back and enjoy
Obvious downgrade!
CitizenCope
Member
Please let this become a thing lol
lol
Someone add that guy from the Tiger Woods pic. You know the one.
wow. besides the crowd being obviously garbage now - overall it's an improvement for sure.
I wonder if they tried fxaa? I can't believe there is NO headroom for that.
GoofsterStud
Member
To bad for the lack of AA but 60 1080p/60fps is what matters!
This is my must have.
This is my must have.
Hell yeah. "Woah"
Red Chocobo
Banned
I'm confused. I thought it was a real location, but whole buildings have been moved in different versions.
Which one is more accurate to the real place? The E3 one or the release one?
Which one is more accurate to the real place? The E3 one or the release one?
Out of curiosity, why are you only cherry picking the things that have been improved, and ignoring all the countless examples of things being downgraded? The original comparison in the E3 downgrade thread wasn't of specific examples, but each different segment of the track. It was a fair comparison. It was also comparing direct feed YouTube video to direct feed YouTube video, not direct feed super high quality video to direct feed YouTube video. Also, you realise people are watching these videos back to back and noticing the difference first hand without even picking at individual segments?
If you watch one video after the other, without even going in to specifics the graphical downgrade is immediately obvious. It looks very different in terms of overall visual fidelity, lighting, AO, cleanliness, IQ, post processing etc.
I have to commend your efforts to downplay the differences, but most people viewing both videos back to back are immediately noticing the downgrade.
Dictator93
Member
You know, the game receiving final art passes and the whole sale reducing of geometry to god damn textures are completely unequivocal.
I have played the game in person, and I can tell you that beyond the player car... everything in this game looks painfully average to not too good.
Enjoy your self convinced reality.
I don't think anyone is saying there are no compromises being made. There is also no need to belittle the pointing out of an obvious improvement I think.
hahaha
if there is one thing that makes time pass joyfully, its the console warriors fight to resist!!
why bother with the haters for anything else than laughs people?
isnt these the same people that found downgrades in ryse too? ;D
funny thing though, I thought that this game is a driving simulator, and what are its features worth pimping is VERY accurate tire data in extreme conditions, a new advanced physics calculation system, some laser scanned tracks that where most wanted for years,
and todays news should be that DF verified that its a rock solid 1080p 60hz synced and locked game....
yet
everything in discussion revolves around the least important details ever.
OMG the shadow of the third window on the left in the second building on the right, has different shadow!! game ruined total!!
so, please TEAM RESISTANCE, go on
the rest of you, lay back and enjoy
Pointing out a downgrade in visuals in certain areas doesn't mean anyone is rubbishing the game or ignoring advancements in other areas etc.
Not sure how pointing out a downgrade in one area diminishes the others, but hey you play that card.
dragonbane
Member
Looks like a YT to HQ comparison? I'm a wrong?
Why is it so important to point out the changes and focus only on "downgrades"?
To me it looks more like the build from E3 isn't even the same build as the release one. The track-side, and even the track itself, are completely different in places. It's like they went back in and redid the entire thing from end to end.
It's obvious they sacrificed things, but it's being driven into the ground in a thread that's about how well the game performs (even if it's due to rebuilding or rearranging the track).
I don't think he's pointing out anything that compression would change. I think he's just showing how things are completely different there. In that particular corner the lighting and buildings are totally and completely changed.
I'm highlighting examples that show specific moments on the track where there's dramatic change. I've noted and commented elsewhere (including a conversation with you, btw) where the changes aren't as flattering. We've had high quality images to corroborate that as well. My words in response to you were
If you think the segments I've made gifs of are inaccurate comparisons, please explain how that's so. Considering you've responded in the past saying adding geometry and elements like the bridge isn't important for the conversation, I think "efforts to downplay" evidence may fall slightly more on your side. I'm submitting examples without commentary, and that seems to disturb you.
a) you callin someone for cherry-picking.. its an insult
b) learn to think ahead Nib....
imagine the case where you manage to piss gestault just enough, so that he goes through GT6 and cherry pick aaaall the bad apples, juust like you've been doing for months in forza....
you think you can handle that? ....just sayin'...may wanna think about it ;D
Is photographic examples of a before and after comparison problematic somehow? Considering there were no words of reaction in my post aside from labels for each image, I don't understand anything about what you're trying to say. "The lady doth protest..."?
blankempathy
Member
Downloaded the torrent and fired up the video and the very first thing I noticed was the jaggies.
Pharaoh 117
Member
Somebody photoshop GT's Translator-San, please.
It doesn't disturb me, but it does seem a tad disingenuous. Throw a bunch of captures from different segments of the track and let people decide for themselves, instead of cherry picking only sections (cropped out) of improvements only. I appreciate this is something even I have been guilty of (and why I've not re-posted my original comparison but instead only used the new one), so I'm not specifically gunning you. Then there's comparing HQ video against a 720p YouTube capture at that. The way you're presenting the GIF's is as if there are just as many upgrades etc. You do not need to add commentary, your GIF's are doing that by themselves.
But yea, overall, just view the videos back to back, or check out this post here, which I think is pretty fair as it covers a large range of the track, not just one or two points, and compares like for like video quality (or close enough).
Forza 5 | Direct Feed YT E3 gameplay vs Direct Feed YT Final build gameplay comparison
I do think it's wrong that the visuals have been downgraded as much as they have. Really graphics should only be improved before release, as is usually the case with optimisations and polishing, especially when the've stated as much through the PR channels. Having it the other way round is slightly disingenuous and a mis-selling of the product.
How is pointing out a clear difference disingenuous. You are doing the same, no? We are not blind, you imply everyone is ignoring the differences. I can only speak for myself but I think they are clear to everyone. I think you are only getting a bit mad because no one is mounting the barricades.
You are really close to netBuff now, who constantly repeated the same thing over and over again - without even trying to understand other opinions or arguments, or why some people might not have problem with those things even.
too good.
Please let this become a thing lol
I love these so much, lol
The Crimson Kid
what are you waiting for
This really is one of the biggest downgrades I've seen in some time. Between the poorer shadows, worse filtering at a distance, those crowds, and several other things that have already been noted, it really makes for a dramatic drop in image quality. I don't know what to make of the environments yet because some parts have clearly had an added pass for detail while some parts have seen drops in detail, so it would be nigh impossible to say what happened to the environments.
I wonder if they using the LoD trick that they used with cars in previous Forza games (where cars in-race were much less detailed than the showroom models), and if they are, to what extent.
No. Plenty of things have changed for the worse from the numerous demos done "on final hardware" besides those crowds. Also, you're going to be slowing down at turns and be brushing up real close to those crowds in Prague when you do so.
The reason that environment detail is so scrutinized in sim racing games is because you're spending more time looking at environments than the cars themselves (especially if you are a good driver) and most people play these games from a camera view where you don't see most of your car (hood, bonnet, or cockpit). You're looking at environments quite a lot, especially on returning to tracks you've already played, which will be quite often in Forza 5. When you're out in the lead in hood view playing Gran Turismo, the game rarely looks all that hot.
And if crowds in an environment weren't so important, then why did Bizzarre Creations put thousands of 3D spectators in their environments? Those environments look about as good overall, and better in some cases, than what is in this video. And while PGR ran at 720p30, (1080p60 requires 4x more power), why shouldn't I expect more from the enviroments on a next gen console that is ~10x more powerful than the 360? Especially when Turn 10 was making all that ruckus about having to redo all the tracks to get a "next-gen" level of detail and accuracy in them?
Yep. Microsoft has been claiming for months that the demos have been running on final retail consoles instead of dev kits, yet this downgrade is pretty recent and pretty drastic.
It's kind of baffling actually. Hopefully we get a detailed breakdown into what changed when and why. It would be interesting to know.
Well this is a thread about the tech, not the gameplay. (And there are plenty of detailed criticisms in those reviews about the gameplay.). Nice tag, btw.
Anyways, the final game has seen some pretty significant tech downgrades from what they have shown in live demos that they repeatedly claimed were running on final hardware. What was showed at E3 and beyond was the most graphically impressive racer I had seen, yet with the downgrades in the final product, it is no longer that. GRID 2 on PC looks better than this on my not-amazing PC, and if they were to have done a simple port of that to XB1 running at 1080p60, it would look better than Forza does in races.
I don't see how people discussing the graphical downgrades in a big launch game in a thread specifically about the tech in this big launch game is unbelievable in any realistic way.
I wonder if they using the LoD trick that they used with cars in previous Forza games (where cars in-race were much less detailed than the showroom models), and if they are, to what extent.
No. Plenty of things have changed for the worse from the numerous demos done "on final hardware" besides those crowds. Also, you're going to be slowing down at turns and be brushing up real close to those crowds in Prague when you do so.
The reason that environment detail is so scrutinized in sim racing games is because you're spending more time looking at environments than the cars themselves (especially if you are a good driver) and most people play these games from a camera view where you don't see most of your car (hood, bonnet, or cockpit). You're looking at environments quite a lot, especially on returning to tracks you've already played, which will be quite often in Forza 5. When you're out in the lead in hood view playing Gran Turismo, the game rarely looks all that hot.
And if crowds in an environment weren't so important, then why did Bizzarre Creations put thousands of 3D spectators in their environments? Those environments look about as good overall, and better in some cases, than what is in this video. And while PGR ran at 720p30, (1080p60 requires 4x more power), why shouldn't I expect more from the enviroments on a next gen console that is ~10x more powerful than the 360? Especially when Turn 10 was making all that ruckus about having to redo all the tracks to get a "next-gen" level of detail and accuracy in them?
Yep. Microsoft has been claiming for months that the demos have been running on final retail consoles instead of dev kits, yet this downgrade is pretty recent and pretty drastic.
It's kind of baffling actually. Hopefully we get a detailed breakdown into what changed when and why. It would be interesting to know.
Well this is a thread about the tech, not the gameplay. (And there are plenty of detailed criticisms in those reviews about the gameplay.). Nice tag, btw.
Anyways, the final game has seen some pretty significant tech downgrades from what they have shown in live demos that they repeatedly claimed were running on final hardware. What was showed at E3 and beyond was the most graphically impressive racer I had seen, yet with the downgrades in the final product, it is no longer that. GRID 2 on PC looks better than this on my not-amazing PC, and if they were to have done a simple port of that to XB1 running at 1080p60, it would look better than Forza does in races.
I don't see how people discussing the graphical downgrades in a big launch game in a thread specifically about the tech in this big launch game is unbelievable in any realistic way.
Pharaoh 117
Member
someone already has made it
Masterful.
All your comparisons so far involve things that look like obvious placeholders and unfinished bits of the tracks. They're almost completely different building, not improved version of the same ones.
Now, if you look at this:
vs
the differences in terms of IQ (especially aliasing), DOF, lighting, and things like tress or crowd is massive. The final footage is nowhere near the original reveal.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Man remember when 2D crowds and shitty trees was suuuuuuch a big deal in regards to GT?
God I hope that was completely intentional irony, because otherwise you need a mirror STAT.
I actually like the lighting on the reveal trailer better. Looks more like real life to me.All your comparisons so far involve things that look like obvious placeholders and unfinished bits of the tracks. They're almost completely different building, not improved version of the same ones.
Now, if you look at this:
vs
the differences in terms of IQ (especially aliasing), DOF, lighting, and things like tress or crowd is massive. The final footage is nowhere near the original reveal.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Having just watched Sessler's review, the review build looks sublime. There have been some changes, sure - changes always happen during the development, especially with launch titles - but downgrades? On the whole, I wouldn't say so. Regardless, I'm more than pleased with the way the game looks.