Well, can you define what a decent amount of sales is consistent in the market?
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Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII launches in Japan with low sales of 277k
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Well, can you define what a decent amount of sales is consistent in the market?
That depends on the game. There is no universal benchmark.
Is any game that sells 300k, or even 200k, a success or not then?
Again, depends on the game. If a mainline FF, Pokemon, DQ, whatever sold that much it'd be a disaster. For games like SMT or Kiseki or Senran Kagura (mid-tier games) that's solid.
You need to work on your wording, having followed this thread from time to time, I think you need to chill out. Everyone on GAF should be pals.
I agree with like 80% of the stuff you say, but the way you word it makes me want to hide your posts. This isn't highschool, you won't impress people with debate class skillz.
<3
Goddamn! :lol
Not sure why you feel the need to stalk me constantly and continually bother me. Its becoming increasingly annoying. Can you be any more of a jerk?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Let's not attack each other. Stay on topic please.
1.) This is a forum and as you know I'm a FFXIII fan. Let's not go there with the stalking business.
2.) I would've posted that reply regardless if it was directed to you or anyone else for that matter. Get over yourself.
3.) Get over yourself.
Maybe Muppet345 was right 
He was an expert.
He was an expert.If someone has crap argumentation that constantly throws out stupid points without any correlation or something that doesn't make sense then I'm going to call it out. It's not a matter of showing off my "debate class skillz."
Oh noooo. Lol the irony of you posting in this thread. Hahah
Since LR is more akin to SMT and Kiseki, I guess we can say its solid then.
And kayos, why are you so condescending? People are trying to be civil and you are acting like a child, calling other arguments stupid and crap. I have yet to attack you and your opinion, no matter how bias against XIII-related stuff I think it is. Respect goes two ways, sir.
LR probably still got more of a budget than any Shin Megami Tensei/Kiseki or Ys title ever. At the very least, we objectively know that not only did it get a more of an advertising campaign than even Persona games can get in Japan, the game has fancy CG cutscenes rather than shit Gonzo-esque cutscenes with limited animation, lots of different costume designs a step beyond "[x] colored coat" like in Resonance of Fate, but the open world that LR does have is still larger than anything any of those games have done. For how low budget in comparison to other SE works LR is, there is definitely a reason Atlus is just now announcing P5 on a current gen console; each company has different circumstances and different standards (and importantly, different audience sizes).
So no, LR is still not "solid"; it's still disappointing because it follows a higher pedigree than Atlus/Falcom titles (where even at SE's worst, the stuff they put out is still a far cry above what you see from your Namco, Atlus, etc contemporaries when you look at each individual piece of the game).
So no, LR is still not "solid"; it's still disappointing because it follows a higher pedigree than Atlus/Falcom titles (where even at SE's worst, the stuff they put out is still a far cry above what you see from your Namco, Atlus, etc contemporaries when you look at each individual piece of the game).
airmangataosenai
Member
The next entries in their respective series (Of which Tales will also be on PS3 and therefore directly comparable) will do fine. Moreover you need to realize that Lightning Returns isn't the biggest PS3 game for this year so isn't the best milestone for the overall health of the industry. Numerous other games released this year had larger debuts.
theprodigy
Member
wait a sec, where do you guys think LR will end up in Japanese sales LTD
wanna see which formerly niche JRPGs can beat it
Dual Blade
Member
Well deserved imo. This series really took a nosedive after ff12!
I hope Nomura and ff15 can save it.
I hope Nomura and ff15 can save it.
Maybe it's time you stop trying to convince yourself this game didn't bomb.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Isn't 277k is actually decent for a console game in Japan, though.
If Square adjusted accordingly, then maybe they're okay with the sale's performance.
These are numbers. Not opinions (I leave these to you). Sorry
It was explained to you many times SE doesn't decide alone for the size of the shipment but you don't want to understand it. The only numbers I see are these are those in the OP.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Except for the 138.5k people who would buy the next game.
Clearly the solution is for Squenix to milk every game they make with a sequel until the first one that sells <100k, then they stop and move on to the next game.
I'm actually not sure if I'm joking either, because they could use the money.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
And those numbers are on part with the shipped ones. What's so complex to understand about it?
speculawyer
Member
Well people are not buying them so I'm not surprised they are not making as many.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
It's a very hard situation, especially when you see Nielsen listing in the most wanted next-gen games KH3 and FFXV only 9th and 10th position in the ranking. Battlefield, Uncharted, Just Dance and co. all before it. Bleah.
This series.......
You guys do realize ff13-3 isn't the only FF game out right now and that FF14 is strengthening the name of FF. All FF13 is showing is that no one cares about lightning. The brand of FF is still strong the game just needs to be good. Good FF is still dominant.
You guys do realize ff13-3 isn't the only FF game out right now and that FF14 is strengthening the name of FF. All FF13 is showing is that no one cares about lightning. The brand of FF is still strong the game just needs to be good. Good FF is still dominant.
Only, if you look on that chart that the OP posted, MH was in ninth place, and that was the installment that released that same week.
That might tell you something.
Love how people in this thread are trying to spin the low sales numbers across the board as insignificant to ONLY 13-3 and not to the other franchises. Or that sales numbers equal quality (Disgaia, anyone? One of the best SRPG franchises around that doesn't get nearly as much sales as it deserves). Just love how people are trying to justify their blind hate for this.
Not saying that they are right or wrong (I might think that the game sucks ass when I get to play it), but seriously, the lengths people are going to try to validate their hate for a game that isn't out on any other shores yet is mind boggling!
That1BlackGuy
Member
I think it'll do respectable numbers over its lifetime but nowhere near a mainline entry naturally, not to mention taking budget and company expectations into account. I saw this (and XIII-2) as nothing more than revenue streams to recoup sunk costs in the short term, even if XIII-2 was made with the intention of addressing consumer feedback from the first game.
Not everyone plays MMOs though, so FF14 doesn't appeal to everyone. You can't expect everyone to just move on to FF14.
UGH...
SniperHunter
Banned
Toriyama and co have basically killed the series...and the same man is heading a Final Fantasy Committee. .
These are numbers. Not opinions (I leave these to you). Sorry
The game sold less than Dirge of Cerberus.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Well, he's part of a committee that has more than 4 members (Kitase, Tabata, Toriyama, Yoshida, and more, but excluding Nomura), he's not heading it.
Uh... the MH game in ninth place is MH4, which is still showing some considerable amount of legs for being out for like a month and selling 2 million units. I'm not quite following what that is supposed to tell us outside of the fact that mainline MH still sells. The only new MH installment that was released "that same week" (which I'm assuming you're talking about the sales charts for last week) was Frontier G on the PS3. I don't think an expansion to a six year-old MMORPG that initially released on the PC and Xbox 360 in Japan is going to tell us anything.
MH4 didn't release last week, it was released in September. The MH title that released the same week that you're presumably trying to use as a valid argument for something that you didn't elaborate is an MMO spinoff port, so I don't get how it is useful to any argument you might have about the state of console sales or LR's numbers.
I don't think they're trying to validate their hate for the game. Several of the posters provided valid data and explanations for Mario's numbers. Of this list of new releases in the same week, other than Mario, what is actually comparable to the kind of game LR is budgeted, promoted, and as relevant to the dev/pub company as a release?
So yes, the low sales numbers across the board are insignificant to the other franchises but significant to the 13 games and possibly FF (you said this backwards in your post, but I think you were trying to imply this and not the reverse). There's not much length being gone through to validate any hate, the sales numbers do the talking.
He's not heading it...he's just one member.
That is the core issue. ANYTHING perceived negative about the title (or anything FF13) related is so gleefully used to justify their dislike with the XIII series. They have to have their own hatreds proven correct after all. Yet when defenders prick up a positive note or find a positive in general about a game, we are 'morons'. The fan base is just a mess.
what are you talking about ?
Its a FACT that square enix EXPECTED sales on the LOWER end when their total shipment for the game was around 388k
This was never to meant to be the next FFVII....Square Enix clearly knew, hence they didn't even title it Final Fantasy 13-3.
This is a spin off directed at a very specific fanbase.
On another note mario 3D had its lowest opening ever with 100k. Its the best mario game in the last decade probably.
People here are celebrating the fall of the franchise for no reason at all.The XIII series made SE a ton of money.And LR was cheap to make and its also a good game.
Glass Rebel
Member
Retailers order shipments. Square-Enix can't force them to take copies they don't want.
FTFY.
Shogun1337
Junior Member
Around 800K.
You guys should learn how to read the numbers before talking about them. S-E doesn't decide the number of the total shipment, retailers do, the fact that only 388k were shipped means that the request was low. S-E can't be happy with those numbers.
The Mario comparison is laughable since Mario has legs while JRPGs are always front loaded.
Shogun1337
Junior Member
A bomb is a bomb. Stop pretending you know what sales SE was expecting.
Glass Rebel
Member
Final Fantasy XIII - 1,516,532 / 1,904,313
Final Fantasy XIII-2 - 605,660 / 860,514
Sales of FF13-2 are suggesting 400-450k for Lightning returns based on first week vs LTD.
However, people are acting like this is the first time a FF game as failed to sell millions. People no longer buy the series blindly, and people know the difference between a shitty FF13 spinoff and a mainline title.
EDIT: On second thought, 500K might be optimistic.
I'm kind of used to it because, sadly, that's how I've been seeing a good bit of gaming debates having anymore on either side of a particular one. I'm always hopeful that those kinds of people can be kept out (not saying there are valid points on both ends being said), but you always get the one that spoils the bunch.
PshycoNinja
Member
I am not sure if you're trying to say that's a good thing or a bad thing. I see it as a great thing. It shows people are still interested in FF thanks to FFXV.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
It's very bad because KH3 and FFXV should deserve 1st and 2nd spot. lol.