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[LuuKyK]

If you run around saying you're hot for Lightning and where are the screenshots of her in skimpy clothing, being very blatant about your perverseness...

I never said that though.

insulting your taste in games is personal, but cancer isnt? get a grip

Whats wrong about the cancer word? Its obviously a bad thing. My grandpa just died because of it. So what? I am not linking its meaning to anyone personally. I meant that in a way to tell how that is bad for an RPG in my opinion. So please stop interpreting things in the way you find it convenient to defend someone you barely know. "Get a grip".

 

[Toth]

I'd rather we come back on topic of why exactly Lightning Returns bombed in Japan!

Personally, I don't really think it can merely be reduced to the fact that the home console market is shrinking in Japan.

A good game can boost console sales as well.

What is a definition of bomb anyway? It still debuted number 1 and outsold its next highest selling game by a 3:1 margin. I would think a bomb would be maybe 100-200k total sales like the Wonderful 101. It seems like senseless sensationalism at this point when people in the know already predicted these sales months ago.

The only 'defending' going on here are people like myself pointing out that these were expected sales for the title and that the JPN market is horrendous now outside of mobile gaming.

 

[qq more]

I think a bomb would be more like something selling below expectations or not selling enough to make a profit (which usually overlaps "selling below expectations" anyways).

What was their expectations on the title's launch sale number? Curious if there's any data on that.

I never said that though.

I don't think that was actually directed towards you, but I could be wrong.

 

[Kagari]

Can we stop bringing what LuuKyk said about SMT4 into other threads. Thanks.

 

[Can Crusher]

Hopefully this sends a message. In SE's bizarro world, this probably means it needs another spin off.

 

[Toth]

Hopefully this sends a message. In SE's bizarro world, this probably means it needs another spin off.

I think everyone can agree that there is absolutely no further need for any more Lightning games.

 

[hateradio]

I think everyone can agree that there is absolutely no further need for any more Lightning games.

Except for the 138.5k people who would buy the next game.

 

[Itsuki]

Hopefully this sends a message. In SE's bizarro world, this probably means it needs another spin off.

If they made another game, it would sell less than LR so S-E would lose money. Also, the XIII story has ended.

 

[kayos90]

Except for the 138.5k people who would buy the next game.

I see what you did there and it's not funny.

 

[qq more]

I see what you did there and it's not funny.

I thought it was kind of funny

 

[Meccanical]

I did too.

>_>

 

[kayos90]

What is a definition of bomb anyway? It still debuted number 1 and outsold its next highest selling game by a 3:1 margin. I would think a bomb would be maybe 100-200k total sales like the Wonderful 101. It seems like senseless sensationalism at this point when people in the know already predicted these sales months ago.

The only 'defending' going on here are people like myself pointing out that these were expected sales for the title and that the JPN market is horrendous now outside of mobile gaming.

First, @ the bolded, I forget if it was you and/or the others but people who are unsurprised by these numbers when they were clearly saying that LR was going to sell better than XIII-2 have no room to talk at all. Not only is it borderline hypocrisy but it just makes you a ridiculous toon posting on GAF. No joke.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if it sold the best that week or not. I'm sure if I won a race against a bunch of 5th graders, no offense 5th graders, I would be considered a victor, right? No. It's not a victory. It's making yourself look bad. If you have to preach that "I sold #1 in a week where everything else sold crappy" it's a shitty thing to preach.

Lastly don't say things like the JPN market is horrendous outside of mobile gaming. It's not. Stop deluding yourself.

 

[YAWN]

Wait, this quote from FF Wiki -

According to Motomu Toriyama at a presentation for Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, Lightning is considered a role model in Japan due to her courage, speed, and elegance.

People look up to her speed? how is that even wat

 

[kayos90]

Wait, this quote from FF Wiki -

People look up to her speed? how is that even wat

Courage and elegance are descriptive words that can stand on its own. I agree with you; what the fuck do they mean by speed?

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

He sounds like a used car salesman.

 

[Meccanical]

gotta go fast

 

[fredrancour]

Courage and elegance are descriptive words that can stand on its own. I agree with you; what the fuck do they mean by speed?

Maybe a translation error? Maybe it was "speed" like "quickness" like "quickwitted?

Or an idiom?

OR this was Doge talking and sony is managed by memes.

 

[Toth]

First, @ the bolded, I forget if it was you and/or the others but people who are unsurprised by these numbers when they were clearly saying that LR was going to sell better than XIII-2 have no room to talk at all. Not only is it borderline hypocrisy but it just makes you a ridiculous toon posting on GAF. No joke.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if it sold the best that week or not. I'm sure if I won a race against a bunch of 5th graders, no offense 5th graders, I would be considered a victor, right? No. It's not a victory. It's making yourself look bad. If you have to preach that "I sold #1 in a week where everything else sold crappy" it's a shitty thing to preach.

Lastly don't say things like the JPN market is horrendous outside of mobile gaming. It's not. Stop deluding yourself.

Anyone thinking LR was going to see as much as 13-2 were being even generous or ridiculous. I only hoped it would be a slighter decrease but cest la vie.

For your second point, its pure economics. You can only sell as well as the market allows. The market sucks for console games, it's just a fact. Saying it's lower sales are purely due to Japan being 'sick' of lightning is too black and white.

GTA V moving over 300k was a surprise though I admit.

 

[kayos90]

Anyone thinking LR was going to see as much as 13-2 were being even generous or ridiculous. I only hoped it would be a slighter decrease but cest la vie.

For your second point, its pure economics. You can only sell as well as the market allows. The market sucks for console games, it's just a fact. Saying it's lower sales are purely due to Japan being 'sick' of lightning is too black and white.

GTA V moving over 300k was a surprise though I admit.

I guess Xillia 1 and 2's sales were a complete fluke and something out of the ordinary.

 

[Toth]

I guess Xillia 1 and 2's sales were a complete fluke and something out of the ordinary.

2's sales were half those of Xilia too. See the trend?

edit: not half but from like 550k to 360k.

 

[Slime]

Hopefully this sends a message. In SE's bizarro world, this probably means it needs another spin off.

Unfortunately the message they'll get from this probably isn't going to be "make better console games," but "make even shitter iOS/Android games."

 

[kayos90]

2's sales were half those of Xilia too. See the trend?

I have no idea what your argument is. You just point out observations without substantiating them with analysis. Argue better.

Xillia 2 was a sequel. Sequels can be a hit and miss regarding if they do better or worse than its predecessors. Regardless, of what the result may be, Xillia 1 and Xillia 2 did have great sales. Were Xillia 2's lower? Yeah. Does it discount the fact that it did good? No. Not only that but a good sales number for these two game doesn't conclude the fact that console gaming sales suck in Japan, even if it went down between the two games.

 

[Toth]

I have no idea what your argument is. You just point out observations without substantiating them with analysis. Argue better.

Xillia 2 was a sequel. Sequels can be a hit and miss regarding if they do better or worse than its predecessors. Regardless, of what the result may be, Xillia 1 and Xillia 2 did have great sales. Were Xillia 2's lower? Yeah. Does it discount the fact that it did good? No. Not only that but a good sales number for these two game doesn't conclude the fact that console gaming sales suck in Japan, even if it went down between the two games.

I fail to see how that same argument cannot be applied to XIII and XIII-2, as well from XIII-2 to LR.

My argument is that in Japan, sequels not on a mobile platform see decreases across sales consistently.

 

[kayos90]

I fail to see how that same argument cannot be applied to XIII and XIII-2, as well from XIII-2 to LR.

My argument is that in Japan, sequels not on a mobile platform see decreases across sales consistently.

. The market sucks for console games, it's just a fact.

Way to change the whole core of your argument entirely. Great argumentation.

 

[YAWN]

I think Lightning would have been better if she was a Ronso.

 

[Toth]

Way to change the whole core of your argument entirely. Great argumentation.

It's one and the same. It is very difficult to see a game series grow with the way things are over there. All I see are continuous declines.

 

[kayos90]

It's one and the same. It is very difficult to see a game series grow with the way things are over there. All I see are continuous declines.

Wait. You're telling me that "The market sucks for console games, it's just a fact." and "sequels not on a mobile platform see decreases across sales consistently" are arguing the same thing? Are you being serious here? If you seriously can't tell that these two statements are arguing different things then there's a serious lapse of understanding or you're failing to recognize that you haven't made your stance clear from the very beginning.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I think Lightning would have been better if she was a Ronso.

I agree. We really need more Ronso-based action games (more than zero).

 

[Meccanical]

I think Lightning would have been better if she was a Ronso.

Could we still dress the Ronso up?

That would...that would be something.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I fail to see how that same argument cannot be applied to XIII and XIII-2, as well from XIII-2 to LR.

My argument is that in Japan, sequels not on a mobile platform see decreases across sales consistently.

Just in case you don't know, it's considered normal and acceptable for a sequel to sell less than it's predecessor. Even with your "Decline", Xillia 2 still launched higher than any other game in the franchise released over the past 5 years, mobile, handheld, or anywhere else.

 

[Tzeentch]

How can Japanese game companies make a profit if even "successes" like 13-3 are selling so poorly?

 

[kayos90]

How can Japanese game companies make a profit if even "successes" like 13-3 are selling so poorly?

I read this as a jab. I hope I was right.

 

[Toth]

Just in case you don't know, it's considered normal and acceptable for a sequel to sell less than it's predecessor. Even with your "Decline", Xillia 2 still launched higher than any other game in the franchise released over the past 5 years, mobile, handheld, or anywhere else.

And FFXIII-2 sold higher than Xillia 2. Every year sales decline across the board on consoles. I am not making this stuff to prove anything.

 

[shouamabane]

Japan is going to continue being tough for home consoles.

 

[Meccanical]

Japan is going to continue being tough for home consoles.

Like moms.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I feel like XV is going to sell better in Japan than XIII did. I don't buy this 'decline' is some nebulous force, and is just a product of subpar offerings on console over an extended console generation. The rise of handhelds was the symptom of handheld games supplanting the traditional role of console games. The handheld movement in Japan doesn't seem irreversible.

 

[evanmisha]

Like moms.

Took me a couple minutes, but it was worth it.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Is Toth really arguing that selling 82% less than XIII and 48% than XIII-2 week one and will probably end up selling ~75% on the whole less than XIII and ~40% on the whole less than XIII-2 indicates nothing about what people think of The Lightning Saga?

 

[MechaX]

I feel like XV is going to sell better in Japan than XIII did. I don't buy this 'decline' is some nebulous force, and is just a product of subpar offerings on console over an extended console generation. The rise of handhelds was the symptom of handheld games supplanting the traditional role of console games. The handheld movement in Japan doesn't seem irreversible.

On average, sales are down from the PSX/PS2 era, but it's not some "across-the-board" doomsday scenario. Shin Megami Tensei games are selling better than they did on the PS2 era, Tales games are selling higher than they were at the start of the generation, Musou games are still selling strongly, Gundam games are selling well enough (even better than a lot of the shit PS2 entries), etc, etc.

 

[Meccanical]

Is Toth really arguing that selling 82% less than XIII and 48% than XIII-2 week one and will probably end up selling ~75% on the whole less than XIII and ~40% on the whole less than XIII-2 indicates nothing about what people think of The Lightning Saga?

Spinjitzu.

 

[RSLAEV]

For serious if they used this engine and made a game starring Fran with appearances by Balthier I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[UrSuLeTzU]

Congratulations Square-Enix, you've killed your flagship franchise.

Nah, just RIP XIII already!

 

[Toth]

Is Toth really arguing that selling 82% less than XIII and 48% than XIII-2 week one and will probably end up selling ~75% on the whole less than XIII and ~40% on the whole less than XIII-2 indicates nothing about what people think of The Lightning Saga?

No. I just said the decline is not black and white. Part of the issue is the declining market. Throw 13-2 and LR at the end of the PS2 era and you would see better sells. The other is the expected brand fatigue. There may be other contributing factors but these two are the majority.

 

[Soriku]

2's sales were half those of Xilia too. See the trend?

edit: not half but from like 550k to 360k.

Xillia 1 sold 632k and Xillia 2 sold 409k based on Garaph.

 

[Shogun1337]

No. I just said the decline is not black and white. Part of the issue is the declining market.

There is no declining market... things don't have to either be upward sloping or downward sloping. They're fine and stable where they are.

Throw 13-2 and LR at the end of the PS2 era and you would see better sells.

I don't think so... I think they'd still be regarded as shit. Heck, bigger shit because in those days we had gem JRPG's coming out monthly.

The other is the expected brand fatigue.

What the heck is brand fatigue? You mean Final Fantasy as a whole, or this XIII saga? If the former, LOL. If the latter, yeah that's the point...

 

[MechaX]

No. I just said the decline is not black and white. Part of the issue is the declining market. Throw 13-2 and LR at the end of the PS2 era and you would see better sells. The other is the expected brand fatigue. There may be other contributing factors but these two are the majority.

Wait, are you using the market condition to justify XIII-2/LR's lower numbers or the entire XIII series' lower numbers across the board?

And what stable market are you talking about? What is selling in Japan now besides Pojemon and MH games? Probably mainline FFs and DQs.

If in your perspective, the only games that sell are the multimillion sellers like Pokemon/MH games (while ignoring the mid-tier market), no wonder you think the console market in Japan is worse than it really is.

 

[Toth]

There is no declining market... things don't have to either be upward sloping or downward sloping. They're fine and stable where they are.

I don't think so... I think they'd still be regarded as shit. Heck, bigger shit because in those days we had gem JRPG's coming out monthly.

What the heck is brand fatigue? You mean Final Fantasy as a whole, or this XIII saga? If the former, LOL. If the latter, yeah that's the point...

The XIII saga.

And what stable market are you talking about? What is selling in Japan now besides Pojemon and MH games? Probably mainline FFs and DQs.

 

[Red Mage]

You know, I really can't wait for Spoony to review this one.

 

[Soriku]

And what stable market are you talking about? What is selling in Japan now besides Pojemon and MH games? Probably mainline FFs and DQs.

Lots of games. Pop into a Media Create thread every now and then.

 

[Nekofrog]

If you're using Pokemon as the barometer for where games "should" be selling, then you need a reality check.