BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Pretty sure Square wouldn't agree with you there.
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Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII launches in Japan with low sales of 277k
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Pretty sure Square wouldn't agree with you there.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Combat and ability customization was great fun. Even on easy I had challenge. Found it to be most difficult in the XIII series. I enjoyed the combat a lot.
Visually a mixed bag. But a few high points. Battle visuals and a few of the setpieces were nice to look at. Final boss was up to FF standards, and the ending CG looked great. Just wished it had more consistency. Aurally it is fantastic though.
Questing was addictive, and liked how stats were attached to quest completion. All voiced too. Either way, I thought it had better sidequests than the first two games. Main quest missions could have been longer.
It's not a masterpiece or free of flaws, but as a Final Fantasy fan I had a lot of fun with it. And there is a one-man-band street performer doing Battle at the Big Bridge that was kinda funny.
I have to agree. There is no doubt mainline FF games are expensive to make, but I would argue it may very well have been far more expensive to invest so much time and resources into the XIII universe. There were serious implicit costs: the potential damage done to the brand; the potential damage done to the fabric of the team/company after being restricted to cheap, unambitious products for so long; and the fact that instead of creating something amazing that could have sold comparably to a mainline title, they instead created a series of mediocre products that will ultimately sell much, much less, even if you combine their sales.
And yes, not only are there always a lot of left over ideas/assets/etc. that you can leverage toward a brand new title, but I'm sure by the time XIII finished, their development tools were much more polished, and the team was generally more comfortable in HD development. That afterward they set their sights lower instead of higher is a real shame.
So, personally, I don't buy the "they had to milk it by turning it into a forgettable trilogy!" argument. It's possible XIV sucked a lot of the team's talent away, or something along those lines. But no one should take for granted that, hey, SE needed a buffer for their quarterly reports in the short term while games like XIV were losing dramatic amounts of money, and so for some reason it was perfectly okay to completely neglect long term growth. This being the course of action SE chose doesn't mean it was actually the right one.
You've just described a good bit of gaming issues (one of which I'm even having a hard time holding interest in because of the toxicity).
But yeah, you can have your opinion on the game, but basically treating a game like this like it was The War Z is beyond blasphemy.
My main question is this: am I going to have a fun experience with the game? Will it make me want to come back for more? How are the controls, is the difficulty fair without it being too easy or hard? Will the experience be over before it begins? How much of a grind are things like leveling up, trophies, etc.?
I want to know if the game is a fun experience. So far, user reviews seem to be mixed. Like I said, professional reviews usually don't do it for me anymore because many have either an axe to grind or an ass to kiss. The XIII series hasn't been perfect, but it's held my interest so far. I'm not saying people are right or wrong on it, though.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Damn. This whole post. This whole fucking post. Thank you for this.
Isn't Lightning's VA also super famous in Japan? Or did I just make that up?
yes but she's in everything ever forever
Maaya Sakamoto, so yes.
RSLAEV
Member
Okay, I just played through the demo a couple times, and it's far from the worst game in the world but it really is just a game for people who like the characters already or are open to liking them for some reason. I think the characters from the 13 series are poorly written, and they exist in an overly complicated story that isn't very appealing, so I'm just too turned off that to play Lightning Returns. If you like the *look* of Lightning, then I can understand you enjoying this game.
If this game starred a character that really rocked me visually, and they somehow focused less on the corny story, I'd play it. I would never go so far as to call it a masterpiece like *some* people here have, but I'd play it.
If this game starred a character that really rocked me visually, and they somehow focused less on the corny story, I'd play it. I would never go so far as to call it a masterpiece like *some* people here have, but I'd play it.
airmangataosenai
Member
Just so we're clear, you do know that XV is (Still) a spin-off of XIII, right?
So they did really invest a lot on Lightning. I never thought her VA was so popular in Japan. 3 installments, cameos, conceived from Cloud. Did I miss something?
OT" VA's are huge in JP and fans go wild with them. I noticed this with the Tales fandom. They really love Zelos and Lloyd.
OT" VA's are huge in JP and fans go wild with them. I noticed this with the Tales fandom. They really love Zelos and Lloyd.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It isn't. XV and XIII are two different interpretations of Kazushige Nojima's "Fabula Nova Crystallis" mythos. They're both spin-offs of that concept, if anything.
It's not a spinoff of 13. That's like arguing Type-0 is (Still) a spin-off of 13 even though Type-0 has a completely separate cast, story, setting, and history and so on, despite its name change and the different implementation of the general mythology set out for the Fabula Nova Crystallis games.
airmangataosenai
Member
The mythology story is essentially the connecting origin story for all of the different worlds within FNC. I've never seen anything to imply that these themes are like those with the Vanadiel games where it's just a name, the FNC games are intended to all be within the same multiverse.
RPGCrazied
Member
It's on the Japanese PSN.
It's not a connecting origin story though. It is literally a sketchy mythology that they all share. Opposite of what you say that you have never seen anything to imply that these themes are just shared names, there has never been mention that they all exist within the same multiverse. So where are you getting the idea that they do?
You're going to have fun.
I'm only 4-5 hours in, but I'm really enjoying the combat, which is the usual innovative SE stuff, and the music continues to impress, with a few great old FF13 and 13-2 tunes here and there. (Remember the Gapra Whitewood? You go there once and then never go back. Well, you can hear it again this time, in the Wilderness.)
The characters are vapid and the dialogue is nothing special. The graphics are a mixed bag of really beautiful stuff and lower-grade textures that wouldn't be out of place on the PS2, but basically they're what we already saw in FFXIII-2.
By now everybody knows that this isn't going to be a great, fascinating, or even coherent story. Go in with that in mind and just enjoy what's there.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
kayos90 said:
This is nonsensical, I'm sorry.
First of all, conflating sales with quality is utterly pointless. There is a long history of high quality titles that failed to find their audience, look back and see how Vagrant Story did. 40/40 in Famitsu and it tanked utterly.
There is no absolute correlation between quality and sales. These are two separate issues.
Secondly, how can people know "how the game plays" when they haven't bought it in the first place? The PSN demo has only just appeared so you can't even pin it down to that, even assuming that any demo can actually be meaningfully representative of a long-form game's experience.
If you are pre-committed to the premise that a game will be no good, to the extent that you are unwilling to try it, you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy. If you are at least hopeful and positive enough to give something the benefit of the doubt and actually try it, the end-result remains open. You could end-up being pleased or disappointed, or neutral.
This is why blind positivity is ultimately preferable to blind negativity even if neither is really that meaningful in its own right.
No, it's not. Same base mythology, different universe and cast of characters. Not one connection to XIII other than being based on the FNC mythos.
To clarify, Versus XIII was originally a part of Fabula Nova Crystallis (hence its name). For whatever reason, it has since been removed from Fabula Nova Crystallis and is now the standalone Final Fantasy XV.
Presumably, XV will have nothing to do with FNC's mythos, but we have not had any proof that that is the case.
I have a feeling that Nomura has had a falling out with FNC, so I don't foresee XV having anything to do with it.
Presumably, XV will have nothing to do with FNC's mythos, but we have not had any proof that that is the case.
I have a feeling that Nomura has had a falling out with FNC, so I don't foresee XV having anything to do with it.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
I don't dislike X but I prefer XIII by far over it.
Have you played it?
I don't really get how comments like these aren't bannable. Calls other commenters pathetic, and calls the game an abomination even though its not even out yet. Lists zero reasons why the game is supposedly bad. This is really barely above youtube level commenting. Drags down the entire site.
I don't know what the point of even having moderators is if shit like this flies without question. And then if Toth or I take offense to blatantly being insulted and called pathetic, we're the problem for acknowledging drive by posts? No.
The latest trailer for Final Fantasy XV still states that it is part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis. I highly doubt the references to Etro or anything else have been removed.
Yeah we should expect l'cie, Etro and all that jazz hope it's done far better this time...
People have been playing the proper release of the game, there are enough stream videos and impressions out there to form a solid idea of the mechanics of the combat system and the troubles with the field play.
Sales doesn't correlate to quality, but it is a factor. Even a game like Call of Duty did not rise to its insane heights today by being a game that plays badly. However, I don't think Kayos implied that sales = quality either, just that the thread originally focused on LR's low sales, what he is asking for is intelligent discussion on the subject that doesn't involve drive-by 'shitting on 13' comments or the 'Lightning-sama is the best you guys are being bullies' reflexive posts.
I don't think blind positivity is preferable to blind negativity, but rather it varies on a case by case basis. Given the history of the 'Lightning Saga', negative skepticism is reasonable. Moreover, there are actual videos of the game out right now, so it's not completely blind judgment either. Not to make this political, but to use an analogy: do you really think 'blind positivity' would be the best case scenario if someone claims that a new method of implementing trickle-down economics will definitely work, even after a nation has been burned twice by it?
Perhaps you can say it's not comparable, but I hold that a negative view of a game before trying it does not mean by default that a person cannot be objective about it.
I won't defend the guy's comment, but you're the second person I've seen asking why people aren't being banned, and I think it's fair to say that's being passive aggressive in a way that is like you're hoping someone will be banned for saying bad things about your opinion. If you have a legitimate cause don't you think it's better to contact a mod to sweep the thread or something, instead of asking for bans in your posts?
The guy literally called ME pathetic. He hasn't commented at all on my opinions.
Pretty sure they tried that and that game ended up becoming XV.
Well, I was called a tasteless weeaboo that needed to get back to my waifu game yesterday. :lol If thats not a youtube level comment I don't know what is. Honestly...
Nah. XV still has its FNC connection as does Type 0. The only thing is that they dropped the number XIII.
Then go and report him to a mod instead of whining about how the thread isn't moderated.
I thought by this
AllenShrz qualified he thought the Lightning defense force was being pathetic by trying to spin what are clearly not good sales numbers into some kind of positive light. I thought that was more of an attack on the posts rather than on the people, but we may see this differently. Make a case for a mod instead of publicly calling out other people, posters can see who is banned and who is not.
If you sit around and sulk, you only end up come off as a whining poster playing victim.
No, I did not
WTF
Why do they keep going back to XIII? Christ. I just want a new FF game
No, I did not
WTF
Why do they keep going back to XIII? Christ. I just want a new FF game
Lol.. of course it's not a spin off, he is mixing things up.
Pretty sure you're getting one.No, I did not
WTF
Why do they keep going back to XIII? Christ. I just want a new FF game
It is.
New director, world, cast.
This time it actaully has the writter who created the base Mythos working on the title as well.
So unless you count every Final Fantasy that shares names and summons as spin offs, you're golden for XV.
and you know what you said to elicit that response.
I wonder why she was horribly designed like that.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
dramatis said:
Its very apparent however that many commenters haven't played the game or demo, and in fact have no interest in playing it at any point due to their abiding dislike of the XIII sub-franchise.
I'd also add that watching a game being played is not close to the same experience as actually playing it for yourself. And I can't help but feel that in many instances its just used as a shallow justification for upholding an existing prejudice.
dramatis said:
No it isn't a factor. Popularity is an empirical metric, "quality" in the way we apply it to games or any other form of art, is entirely subjective.
You can say game x is a masterpiece, and I can say the same game is mediocre, and we can both be right because each is our own honest assessment according to our respective personal tastes.
What we can't say is that just because more people fall into line with our viewpoint, it must then be the "right" evaluation. Populism isn't the hallmark of quality, its just a target for marketeers!
I don't think responses like those are warranted at all regardless of what he said.
I gave my (fairly controversial) opinion about a game. Thats it. Do you really think that should lead to an offense on personal levels? I never even mentioned that other member, much less called him anything on that level. As much as you are trying to spin that by acting as his defense attorney, that was really low from him, and there is no denying it.
Black Door
Banned
No, I did not
WTF
Why do they keep going back to XIII? Christ. I just want a new FF game
You got five.
Sure, watching is not the same as playing. But the game can be observed and conclusions drawn. It's actually more obvious than your standard action game because all the commands are expressed clearly on the screen in battle. For quests and sidequests, it's easy to see the content and the objectives, and so on. So I think if someone has observed a play of LR for a length of time, he can draw conclusions about how the systems work and actually be right, compared to say trying to understand Bayonetta where the pace is faster and actions less clear.
Sales is a factor in quality. It has nothing to do with our opinion in this respect, it has to do with a market response to something that is good and therefore people will buy it. The anticipated sales determine the kind of resources and time allotted to a game's development. So yes, sales do affect a game's quality! If the developers didn't intend to sell anything in the first place, they wouldn't be making a game to sell. Of course there can be good games that don't have much sales. That's why I say it is a factor in quality but not necessarily simply 'sales equal quality'.
Perhaps in a more roundabout way, the sales of a sequel may better represent the quality of its predecessor, as evidenced by 13-2 in which half the audience recognized that 13 is not properly a good game and therefore did not return for a second bite.
If you run around saying you're hot for Lightning and where are the screenshots of her in skimpy clothing, being very blatant about your perverseness...
insulting your taste in games is personal, but cancer isnt? get a grip, it was a classless comparison to make
Advertising or fanart when it (vs13) was still part of the "Fabula Nova Crystallis" whatever brand.