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[Toth]

Generally I can appreciate the opinion of any fan who doesn't get aroused by Lightning in costumes.

I do think among the vocal FFXIII fan base you are among the more sane, but I still very much disagree with your view points.

I think the biggest difference is what one considers 'important' in a Final Fantasy. I will not say FFXIII is not a real FF or that fans of it are not true FF fans, but I can say it's easily the most removed from the standard, even for a series that tries something new with each entry.

Thanks Midou, we can agree to disagree. I just never found XIII as removed from the standard as VIII was or even XII. In fact, I found XIII had more in common with the old games (crystals being hugely important, a fight to save an entire world, classic summons, individual character differences) than XII (though the Zodiac version def brought up back to even ground with XIII).

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

GAF let me address thee.

• We all know this is the mere sequel of a spin-off.
• We all know this is a mid-tier production at best.
• We all know Square will still make money.
• We all know the story of AAA production costs and the importance of mid tier games.
• We all know Square has a habit of milking every successful franchise they own.
• We all know the era of PS1 & PS2 jrpgs and their respective market are both long gone.
• We all know it's pointless -even insulting- to compare sales wise a mere spin-off to the main numbered series.
• We all know this 25 year old franchise has the most fragmented fanbase of any game there is.
• We all know it is pointless to make generalized claims about the preferences of the fanbase.
• We all know the "damaged franchise" phrase was used explicitly for FF XIV 1.0 and not the original FF XIII.
• We all know that even FF XIV 1.0, the admittedly biggest commercial failure since The Spirits Within, did very little to in fact damage the franchise.
• And most importantly we all know that LR was designed in the first place as the final installment and how it performs means absolutely fucking NOTHING.

And we chose to be petty.

We're not even interested in the game in question but we took this chance to vicariously hate on the original we didn't like which succeeded nonetheless.

A whole thread straight out of the comment section of youtube, not worthy of NeoGaf.

 

[theprodigy]

errr

well this is something alright

LMAO wtf did I just read

 

[darkziosj]

GAF let me address thee.

• 
  Ramdon things..

• 
  
  And the point of those random facts is just to hate on the haters? because i don't see it doing anything else.

 

[Unknown One]

Generally I can appreciate the opinion of any fan who doesn't get aroused by Lightning in costumes.

Hard to get aroused when she has a body of a 14 year old, has only one emotion, and have a giant head.

 

[Kagari]

Hate is a form of caring.

 

[Meccanical]

Hate is a form of caring.

Yep.

If I didn't care I wouldn't even be here.

 

[genjiZERO]

GAF let me address thee.

• We all know this is the mere sequel of a spin-off.
• We all know this is a mid-tier production at best.
• We all know Square will still make money.
• We all know the story of AAA production costs and the importance of mid tier games.
• We all know Square has a habit of milking every successful franchise they own.
• We all know the era of PS1 & PS2 jrpgs and their respective market are both long gone.
• We all know it's pointless -even insulting- to compare sales wise a mere spin-off to the main numbered series.
• We all know this 25 year old franchise has the most fragmented fanbase of any game there is.
• We all know it is pointless to make generalized claims about the preferences of the fanbase.
• We all know the "damaged franchise" phrase was used explicitly for FF XIV 1.0 and not the original FF XIII.
• We all know that even FF XIV 1.0, the admittedly biggest commercial failure since The Spirits Within, did very little to in fact damage the franchise.
• And most importantly we all know that LR was designed in the first place as the final installment and how it performs means absolutely fucking NOTHING.

And we chose to be petty.

We're not even interested in the game in question but we took this chance to vicariously hate on the original we didn't like which succeeded nonetheless.

A whole thread straight out of the comment section of youtube, not worthy of NeoGaf.

I don't care how bad it would be, but I'd totally buy waifus of Final Fantasy Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Serah and Yuna wrestle in moogle bikinis? Yes please.

 

[qq more]

Anyway, title is still misleading, duckroll. Can you post the dengaki and famitsu numbers as well, plus the other title sales of the week so people can at least see the breakdown and decide for themselves if the market is just dead or not.

It's not misleading. Famitsu and Media Creates are different trackers and both are just as right and wrong.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Hate is a form of caring.

You get it.

 

[Skilletor]

Man, you super fans are scary. And a little bit sad.

 

[Mexi]

Hate is a form of caring.

You don't say

Of course, a lot of people care about Final Fantasy since they grow up playing those videogames, it's kinda sad to see what Final Fantasy has become.

I would rather have had a spiritual sequel of The World Ends with You but instead we got this crap :/

I don't care too much about Square-Enix these days, i am kinda optimistic about Final Fantasy XV but not too much.

I am glad we have Atlus, they know how to please their fans

 

[Mihos]

I am still going to buy it. The DLC stuff can bite me, though.

 

[Meccanical]

Man, you super fans are scary. And a little bit sad.

Bro, c'mon, you are getting free entertainment.

Let's give'em a hand.

 

[Cipherr]

3D World will keep selling and could very well outsell Lightning Returns in the coming weeks, imo. Nintendo games usually show great legs around years end.

More importantly, 3D world Bricked.... So its not to be used as a metric of success in any way, shape or form.

 

[Esura]

Hate is a form of caring.

Hate is also very, very ugly. :3

Bro, c'mon, you are getting free entertainment.

Let's give'em a hand.

Don't act like you are removed from the fun.

 

[LuuKyK]

Hate is a form of caring.

A form of caring that induces to a lot of not-caring opinions. Not sure if thats a good thing in this case.

 

[RoninChaos]

Anyone think Square is due for a shake up?

 

[Meccanical]

Don't act like you are removed from the fun.

True.

We all deserve a hand.

 

[Haunted]

Hate is a form of caring.

I think this is the most telling development.

As a huge Final Fantasy fan for decades, I went from loudly complaining and lamenting the nosedive the Final Fantasy brand has taken in the last couple years with shit games like the mobile stuff (hello All the Bravest) and FFXIII/XIV to not really following FFXIII-2 all that much to only marginally glancing at the most popular Lightning Returns threads, more out of habit than real interest, admittedly.

Looking at these sales numbers, guess I'm not the only one. Pretty spectacular how wrong Square's market assessment was, pushing Lightning and the FFXIII spinoffs so hard when even their strongest market is rejecting it like this.

 

[ULTROS!]

i like all mainline ff games

yes, i even have some sort of interest with II, at least the world theme rocks

 

[Arsenic]

If the 66% decrease in sales for the first sequel didn't scare them away, why this 50% decrease will?

I'm positive they're happy with this.


Also to those of you saying so, no fucking shit FFXV will sell well. Most people here arent against the franchised as a whole, we're just fed up with the super star treatment FFXIII has been receiving, and we can't be more happy that its finally over. Poor sales are just icing on the motherfucking cake.

 

[RangerBAD]

If the 66% decrease in sales for the first sequel didn't scare them away, why this 50% decrease will?

I'm positive they're happy with this.


Also to those of you saying so, no fucking shit FFXV will sell well. Most people here arent against the franchised as a whole, we're just fed up with the super star treatment FFXIII has been receiving, and we can't be more happy that its finally over. Poor sales are just icing on the motherfucking cake.

It's the last FF13 spin-off game, so it doesn't really matter what the decrease is. Well, we are all hoping FF15 will be good, but I'm sure we'll see a FF15-2 whether it does well or not.

 

[Mexi]

I have a question

Is lightning very important in Japan? I mean, i know that she is very popular there but holy siht, that doesn't mean she deserves three fucking games.

 

[Meccanical]

I have a question

Is lightning very important in Japan? I mean, i know that she is very popular there but holy siht, that doesn't mean she deserves three fucking games.

No.

The only reason you got three games is for milk money.

 

[Mexi]

No.

The only reason you got three games is for milk money.

It looks like milking money isn't working for them though

 

[Beth Cyra]

You don't say

Of course, a lot of people care about Final Fantasy since they grow up playing those videogames, it's kinda sad to see what Final Fantasy has become.

I would rather have had a spiritual sequel of The World Ends with You but instead we got this crap :/

I don't care too much about Square-Enix these days, i am kinda optimistic about Final Fantasy XV but not too much.

I am glad we have Atlus, they know how to please their fans

Atlus only knows how to please fans of Persona 3 and 4. Persona 1, 2.1, and 2.2 are much different games and fans of those games can't really make this claim.

 

[LuuKyK]

Atlus only knows how to please fans of Persona 3 and 4. Persona 1, 2.1, and 2.2 are much different games and fans of those games can't really make this claim.

Well, I guess it makes sense for them to please the fans of their most lucrative games right? I don't think there is much they can do with the older games, besides a full remake.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Well, I guess it makes sense for them to please the fans of their most lucrative games right? I don't think there is much they can do with the older games, besides a full remake.

It's not just remakes, even the style and feel of Persona 3 and 4 are incredibly different. They could always make a game that was more in the style of Innocent Sin or Persona 1.

Maybe one day.

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't see why games that use XIII engine and assets actually had to continue the story and characters of XIII.... So I'm gonna call half-bullshit on the explanation that keeps popping up in here about the reason for more XIII games being "milking" alone.

 

[Meccanical]

I don't see why games that use XIII engine and assets actually had to continue the story and characters of XIII....

It didn't.

The shit XIII-2 and LR does has shit all to do with the first.

 

[LuuKyK]

It's not just remakes, even the style and feel of Persona 3 and 4 are incredibly different. They could always make a game that was more in the style of Innocent Sin or Persona 1.

Maybe one day.

Maybe Persona 5? From the teaser alone it looks kind of gloomy with those chains and all, but who knows...

 

[Beth Cyra]

Maybe Persona 5? From the teaser alone it looks kind of gloomy with those chains and all, but who knows...

Maybe. I doubt it.

Still though SMT IV gives me hope. Maybe one day they will just make a spin off and let it be in the spirt of the first 2.

 

[LuuKyK]

Maybe. I doubt it.

Still though SMT IV gives me hope. Maybe one day they will just make a spin off and let it be in the spirt of the first 2.

Uhm, well, I am not giving my opinion about this, since the next time I say something about SMT IV I expect people to kill me or something...

 

[kayos90]

A form of caring that induces to a lot of not-caring opinions. Not sure if thats a good thing in this case.

More like it induces real discussion of the state of both the franchise and the company that manages said franchise rather than blindly and stupidly liking something that should be criticized regardless of its status of being a spinoff or not.

Like it or not, there are many legitimate claims, statements, and comments to be had in this thread. Don't like it? Then either put up with it and have an intelligent discussion or get out. The fact of the matter is LR has relatively low sales, and it's expected considering what it is and how the game plays. To those of you who touted that this game would sell better than XIII-2 and would be better than XIII-2, I highly recommend you open your eyes to reality rather than blindly hope for something. There is a difference between hoping for something or what will be.

In addition, just because LR is a "spin-off" doesn't mean it should sell like this nor does it mean it should be rated horribly by its fans. We have tons of spin-offs by SE that are awesome. Theaterythm, Crisis Core, Type-0, etc. These are all great games. If a game sucks then fucking call it out. Do NOT give SE a free pass. No company deserves a free pass, and this industry is no different. Like I stated earlier, if a game stinks then it should bomb, be ridiculed by its fanbase, and have it be meticulously criticized. On the flipside, if a game is good then it should succeed, be praised by its fans, and still be meticulously criticized for what it does well and bad. What happens to a bad (or good) game should directly reflect the company and affect it. Saying shit like "WHY ARE WE HOPING THIS GAME BOMBS?!" or "WHY ARE YOU HAPPY THAT THIS GAME FAILED?!" is stupid and pointless. Why? Because it shifts the blame of the creators of the game to the players. If a product sucks then it should be called out. We're not going to praise a game and hope it does well if it's shit. It makes no sense. If a game fucking sucks then we should be glad it bombed otherwise it'd saturate the market with even more shit and not only that but we're signaling to the developers that we're fine with shit and they'll only create shit.

To the so-called "haters," elaborate on your explanations. I'm SO sick of drive-by comments. I am not a fan of drive-bys and it's become increasingly clear with each FF13 thread, and GAF growing, that there is a surplus of this nonsense. If you're not willing to add discussion and only post here to voice your opinion in a thread that has a serious discussion going on then you're doing the community a disservice, and you're acting on your own selfish impulse. Have something to contribute for goodness sake.

 

[GuardianE]

This is a natural and expected decline by anyone who isn't a fool.

 

[LuuKyK]

More like it induces real discussion of the state of both the franchise and the company that manages said franchise rather than blindly and stupidly liking something that should be criticized regardless of its status of being a spinoff or not.

Like it or not, there are many legitimate claims, statements, and comments to be had in this thread. Don't like it? Then either put up with it and have an intelligent discussion or get out. The fact of the matter is LR has relatively low sales, and it's expected considering what it is and how the game plays. To those of you who touted that this game would sell better than XIII-2 and would be better than XIII-2, I highly recommend you open your eyes to reality rather than blindly hope for something. There is a difference between hoping for something or what will be.

In addition, just because LR is a "spin-off" doesn't mean it should sell like this nor does it mean it should be rated horribly by its fans. We have tons of spin-offs by SE that are awesome. Theaterythm, Crisis Core, Type-0, etc. These are all great games. If a game sucks then fucking call it out. Do NOT give SE a free pass. No company deserves a free pass, and this industry is no different. Like I stated earlier, if a game stinks then it should bomb, be ridiculed by its fanbase, and have it be meticulously criticized. On the flipside, if a game is good then it should succeed, be praised by its fans, and still be meticulously criticized for what it does well and bad. What happens to a bad (or good) game should directly reflect the company and affect it. Saying shit like "WHY ARE WE HOPING THIS GAME BOMBS?!" or "WHY ARE YOU HAPPY THAT THIS GAME FAILED?!" is stupid and pointless. Why? Because it shifts the blame of the creators of the game to the players. If a product sucks then it should be called out. We're not going to praise a game and hope it does well if it's shit. It makes no sense. If a game fucking sucks then we should be glad it bombed otherwise it'd saturate the market with even more shit and not only that but we're signaling to the developers that we're fine with shit and they'll only create shit.

To the so-called "haters," elaborate on your explanations. I'm SO sick of drive-by comments. I am not a fan of drive-bys and it's become increasingly clear with each FF13 thread, and GAF growing, that there is a surplus of this nonsense. If you're not willing to add discussion and only hear to voice your opinion in a thread that has a serious discussion going on then you're doing the community a disservice, and you're acting on your own selfish impulse. Have something to contribute for goodness sake.

I try. Its hard though. Have you seen the first few pages of the same thread? Tell that to those too. You think if I posted a huge opinion it wouldn't get lost in the middle of all the drive-by-posting or wouldn't be mocked, called a chill, a Toriyama fake account, or something like that? I think I experienced enough XIII threads to know that I would. So I just don't see the point of contributing to this threads anymore, because I know how its going to turn out in the end and my contribution will not be considered at all, and rather be dismissed by things downright insulting like the most recent "Just go on back to your crappy weaboo high school simulator and leave it for people with taste.". I try to be as good as a member as I can, and the fact that I never got banned (even if I am relatively new here) is proof of that. I value this board/my membership a lot. The XIII threads are just a completely turn off. I gave up on them, and with reasons.

 

[kayos90]

I try. Its hard though. Have you seen the first few pages of the same thread? Tell that to those too. You think if I posted a huge opinion it wouldn't get lost in the middle of all the drive-by-posting or wouldn't be mocked, called a chill, a Toriyama fake account, or something like that? I think I experienced enough XIII threads to know that I would. So I just don't see the point of contributing to this threads anymore, because I know how its going to turn out in the end and my contribution will not be considered at all. I try to be as good as a member as I can, and the fact that I never got banned (even if I am relatively new here) is proof of that. I value this board/my membership a lot. The XIII threads are just a completely turn off. I gave up on them, and with reasons.

Your contribution isn't viewed as valued because your argumentation stinks, your perspective is viewed as insufferably unmalleable, and you have a tendency to repeat your arguments instead of exercising proper discourse/discussion.

 

[Trent Strong]

That's too bad. The game looks fun and I like Lightnin'.

 

[Toth]

More like it induces real discussion of the state of both the franchise and the company that manages said franchise rather than blindly and stupidly liking something that should be criticized regardless of its status of being a spinoff or not.

To the so-called "haters," elaborate on your explanations. I'm SO sick of drive-by comments. I am not a fan of drive-bys and it's become increasingly clear with each FF13 thread, and GAF growing, that there is a surplus of this nonsense. If you're not willing to add discussion and only post here to voice your opinion in a thread that has a serious discussion going on then you're doing the community a disservice, and you're acting on your own selfish impulse. Have something to contribute for goodness sake.

I agree here Kayos. I have no qualms hearing and discussing with people who do not like the games but drive by posts and "Toriyama waifu lol' posts just anger me so much. If you can't time to make a sensible statement and back it up, stop wasting our time. That's my hope anyway.

That's too bad. The game looks fun and I like Lightnin'.

Don't sweat it. It's already coming here and its success or failure mean little for the XIII series. It's over and done with.

 

[kayos90]

I agree here Kayos. I have no qualms hearing and discussing with people who do not like the games but drive by posts and "Toriyama waifu lol' posts just anger me so much. If you can't time to make a sensible statement and back it up, stop wasting our time. That's my hope anyway.

I have no idea why you or Perfo or luukyk or any one of you have the gall to say that after entertaining so many driveby posts. It's not that hard to ignore them.

 

[Toth]

I have no idea why you or Perfo or luukyk or any one of you have the gall to say that after entertaining so many driveby posts. It's not that hard to ignore them.

When you enjoy something and people are unwilling to engage in sensible discussion, you get frustrated. I ignore some but sometimes it just reaches a breaking point.

 

[Skilletor]

I try. Its hard though. Have you seen the first few pages of the same thread? Tell that to those too. You think if I posted a huge opinion it wouldn't get lost in the middle of all the drive-by-posting or wouldn't be mocked, called a chill, a Toriyama fake account, or something like that? I think I experienced enough XIII threads to know that I would. So I just don't see the point of contributing to this threads anymore, because I know how its going to turn out in the end and my contribution will not be considered at all, and rather be dismissed by things downright insulting like the most recent "Just go on back to your crappy weaboo high school simulator and leave it for people with taste.". I try to be as good as a member as I can, and the fact that I never got banned (even if I am relatively new here) is proof of that. I value this board/my membership a lot. The XIII threads are just a completely turn off. I gave up on them, and with reasons.

When you post things like, "1st person perspective is cancer to RPGs," you shouldn't be surprised when nobody cares about what you have to say regarding other RPGs.

 

[kayos90]

When you enjoy something and people are unwilling to engage in sensible discussion, you get frustrated. I ignore some but sometimes it just reaches a breaking point.

Insert every single person trying to have a serious discussion in this thread but doesn't have the mental/intellectual capacity to engage in said discussion.

 

[Kagari]

When you post things like, "1st person perspective is cancer to RPGs," you shouldn't be surprised when nobody cares about what you have to say regarding other RPGs.

Please don't bring that into this thread.

 

[Supermanisdead]

But they are dating?

wait, this image is incredible. what is this?

 

[RangerBAD]

When you post things like, "1st person perspective is cancer to RPGs," you shouldn't be surprised when nobody cares about what you have to say regarding other RPGs.

He must not know the awesomeness of Dungeon Crawlers. Someone needs to hook LuuKyK up with some Etrian Odyssey or even Dragon Quest for that matter.

 

[MechaX]

I have no idea why you or Perfo or luukyk or any one of you have the gall to say that after entertaining so many driveby posts. It's not that hard to ignore them.

And that's the crazy thing about this "FFXIII Thread Cycle"; for the big harm that a lot of the drive-by posts have done to virtually every XIII thread, Perfo/LuuK/Toth/Shinta often add gasoline to the flames by making big deals out of said drive-by posts or by setting up "haters" strawmen. This shouldn't be a tit-for-tat scenario; it should be very, very easy to ignore "XIII = death of FF" posts.

People shouldn't be reaching "breaking points" at all; we need to keep things in perspective that this is an online forum about video games.

 

[stargateheaven]

so guys.. general thoughts on this game? i'm hearing medicore.. but at least tell me its an improvment over previous lightning games?

 

[Toth]

And that's the crazy thing about this "FFXIII Thread Cycle"; for the big harm that a lot of the drive-by posts have done to virtually every XIII thread, Perfo/LuuK/Toth/Shinta often add gasoline to the flames by making big deals out of said drive-by posts or by setting up "haters" strawmen. This shouldn't be a tit-for-tat scenario; it should be very, very easy to ignore "XIII = death of FF" posts.

People shouldn't be reaching "breaking points" at all; we need to keep things in perspective that this is an online forum about video games.

That's true. It's just a little harder to let things go when you are on the defense.