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GamesRadar: It’s time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console

WolvenOne

Member
What nintendo needs to do is wait 2 years and release a new console with a regular controller that is more powerful than the ps4

Mm, two is probably pushing it. Three years would already be a fairly condensed console cycle, two years would be insane. It'd mean they'd essentially be giving up on the Wii U now, and would be moving development over accordingly.

Basically, the Wii U would lose most of it's software support for years. Then, Nintendo would have to turn around and ask consumers to support them anyway. Sega tried that, and while it almost worked, their brand name was far too fragile to survive Sony marketing afterward.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
If you want those games you aren't going to buy a Nintendo console. Period.

Microsoft and Sony own that demo. They each have large first and second party commitments to games that appeal to that demographic.

Nintendo has large studios dedicated to Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, SSB, Metroid, etc.

At some point a company has to look in the mirror and be ok with who they are. Every time Nintendo has tried to chase "mature" games it has been a failure. It simply is not in their corporate DNA going all the way back to censoring games on the SNES.

I hate this myopic, apologist argument. This attitude is the exact reason they are in trouble.
 
I grew up loving Nintendo... but they could make SO MUCH MONEY if they would swallow their pride and become a third party. Their hardware just isn't anything special - and hasn't been for years.

Truly depressing for someone raised on Nintendo.

no they will have to pay license fes to MS and Sony and they are not that good at making FPS or open world games. mario or zelda type games usually dont sell on xbox or playstation.
 

steveovig

Member
I didn't read everyone's replies but they can't just give up on the Wii-U so fast. The small userbase they have now will be burned and won't show up the next time. These idiotic articles suggest stuff like this without thinking about the business end of it all.
 
Wii U will find its footing now that its got games(and if it contiunes to amass games at a regular interval). You guys enjoy your nintendoomed, while ill be playing mario 3d world.
 

AmyS

Member
I absolutely believe Nintendo will introduce their successor to 3DS in 2016 and a non-Wii branded console in fall of 2017, five years after the release of Wii U.

Nintendo will absolutely have a 7th home console of one kind or another, and it will not be some sort of hybrid handheld/console system, and also not anything like Vita TV.

Once again, I refer to Nintendo's Corporate Management Policy Briefing posted January 31, 2013.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html

As you might already know from some newspaper reports, we will reorganize our development divisions next month for the first time in nine years. Two divisions which have independently developed handheld devices and home consoles will be united to form the Integrated Research & Development Division, which will be headed by Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director.

Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms. What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform. They will also work to avoid software lineup shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware.
Some time ago it was technologically impossible to have the same architecture for handheld devices and home consoles and what we did was therefore reasonable. Although it has not been long since we began to integrate the architecture and this will have no short-term result, we believe that it will provide a great benefit to our platform business in the long run. I am covering this topic as today is our Corporate Management Policy Briefing.


Could Nintendo's future 7th console be their last console? Yes. However there will be at least one more. The Wii U is not their last TV-based home game console. They'll give consoles at least one more shot, and even after that, Nintendo would still at least make handhelds beyond even 3DS' successor.

That said, I could see Nintendo abandoning the console market if their 7th home console fails. However Nintendo going completely 3rd party, not making any of their own hardware, is not even on the horizon right now.

Nintendo is not SEGA. Nintendo has massive cash reserves, a huge war chest, that Sega did not have with Dreamcast, or really at any time even during their prime when Genesis was outselling SNES in 1991-1993.
 

spock

Member
Wii U will find its footing now that its got games(and if it contiunes to amass games at a regular interval). You guys enjoy your nintendoomed, while ill be playing mario 3d world.

Pretty much this. The Wiiu is just now going to get in a groove. Not saying its going to be huge, etc but its going to be on an uptrend and stabilize simply due to games and price. With the PS4 and the X1 now out everyone's cards are showing. The value is just going to keep stacking in the Wiiu's favor. Not sure its going to be a 3ds level recovery but it will be within reason and probably due to a similar strategy.

My bet is on the X1 having the sales issues going into the new year. Ps4 is direct competition. Games like titanfall will move some consoles but not anywhere near what people think. Microsoft doomed threads coming soon,lol.
 

Mik317

Member
Whats with all the Nintendo should do this or diiiiie articles lately?

This is probably the dumbest idea yet tho....I think they give the console one more year before calling it quits and even then they shouldn't think about launching a new console until 2016 at the earliest IMO.


But seriously all of the fix Nintendo ideas are super short sighted. The Hybrid idea kills off one source of income (and the Vita TV apparently isn't taking off IIRC...I just think its the wrong gimmick to follow and I don't think the tech is quite there yet...maybe next next gen lol). 3rd Party helps now becomes a burden later. Killing the tablet requires complete OS rebuilds, fracturing the market and resource wasting. And this idea alienates the few that are supporting you so you can chase the dream of getting the "hardcore" crowd with more power (which by the way alone isn't the answer...if they struggle with shitty hardware as some call it then why would it be awesome to work on even more advance tech...which also costs more?

All of these ideas cut quickly into the Warchest and if things go wrong, they won't have that to fall back on and thus bankrupt city. The short term effect is always potentially great but the longterm outcome is always bleak.

Nintendo can ride out the Wii U, thanks to the Warchest and the 3DS money and it won't cut into it as badly as some think (it has been said a lot of the losses come from building the new facility). So do that and then learn from the fuckups for once and then go at it when the "next gen tech is cheaper" with something Nintendo like that sets them apart. Use this gen to creat new franchises, learn about HD development, mend relationships and just learn...rushing to match the PS4 is rash and could easily kill the company. Its not as dire as many think.

But seriously, we all have been repeating ourselves for like 20 threads now...and that is just in the last few days.....Capcom needs to step up and do something scummy so they can get the hatestick for a bit...I am running out of things to say now man.
 
Pretty much this. The Wiiu is just now going to get in a groove. Not saying its going to be huge, etc but its going to be on an uptrend and stabilize simply due to games and price. With the PS4 and the X1 now out everyone's cards are showing. The value is just going to keep stacking in the Wiiu's favor. Not sure its going to be a 3ds level recovery but it will be within reason and probably due to a similar strategy.

My bet is on the X1 having the sales issues going into the new year. Ps4 is direct competition. Games like titanfall will move some consoles but not anywhere near what people think. Microsoft doomed threads coming soon,lol.

Yup, if they can lower the price down to 250 or 200 bucks along with some forced advertising. They will be sitting pretty.
 

Mithos

Member
I'm guessing half that except the CPU. GPU in the range of the PS4. No way in hell they aim for 2.4 TFs unless N is really gonna be my kinda N :)

Well, depends when/if Nintendo built a new console. In three to five years, these would be very low-ball specs. The sort of thing you'd expect Nintendo to release for 200USD or less.

Right this moment, it'd be fairly highball specs, yeah.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong by Nintendo, if not only to see what 3rd parties will make as an excuse not to support it this time.
 
Nintendo shouldn't scrap the system. But they should start making plans to. As soon as 2016 hits, let it go and release the hybrid everyone has been clamoring for. At that point, the 3DS will be looking long in the tooth as well. It's that or go third party in my mind. The handheld market is going nowhere but down, and Nintendo doesn't seem to have the ability to compete in the console space anymore. Combine the two and get the maximum bang for your buck.

I'd hate to be the head of Nintendo at this point. 20 years of mistakes culminating all at once. Shame.
 

Mik317

Member
But the console side isn't a source of income for them. It's a source of loss.

I get that but it doesn't have to be that way. Two sources of income is better than just one. You don't put all your eggs into one basket if you don't have to. And is the whole Hybrid thing just a suped up Wii U. If People don't get it or like it like so many claim...then why would they want this?

My main issue is that the tech isn't there and if it was it would be kinda expensive. We are talking about something that has to have HD screens, high tech, stream to a TV (or have ports), all the other high tech stuff people will want as I doubt a fully portable Wii U is good enough...that is is expensive and that alone will give people the go ahead to not buy it...and it will flop or force Nintendo to drop the price, losing them even more money...and now they dont have the handheld fall back.

The Hybrid Idea is a contradiction from what people say they want. They want power, 3rd parties, cheapish, and new IPS.....does this hybrid give them that? It's the least dumb of the normal answers but I do wonder if those calling for it truly thought it out.

The Handheld fallback plan is what has saved Nintendo countless times...I just don't think forcing everything into one is smart because they lose that option. Their handhelds will be fine...never DS levels again barring a Tablet (lol) or something but they will do fine as long as they know to release at a great price with some software of note (They need to launch with Pokemon....). They can fix the console space too, or at least become profitable in that field again and thus have two sources of income that brings in money.

i just haven't heard a compelling argument for the hybrid
 
Just brainstorming:

Maybe Nintendo could release a new console relatively soon (summer 2015). Make it comparable in power to the competition, and backwards compatible with the Wii U and Wii. Backwards compatibility with the Wii U requires purchase of the Gamepad separately (so the Gamepad doesn't drive up the price of the new console). Current Wii U owners could trade up by simply keeping their Gamepads and turning in the main body of the Wii U for $150 or so toward the new console in an official trade-in program. Nintendo could re-sell all those Wii U's refurbished and paired with new Gamepads (for a dramatically reduced price, of course). Make the new console extremely developer-friendly, then go to the 3rd parties hat in hand and beg them for forgiveness.

Still a terrible idea, but that's the best I've got.
 

The N64 released in 1996, so almost 20 years. Nintendo really hasn't been the same post-SNES. Back in the day you could not only count on their first party studios delivering (I'd argue the best games Nintendo's ever produced was during the SNES era) but they also had some of the best third-party support. The N64 was really where their problems started.
 
Pretty much this. The Wiiu is just now going to get in a groove. Not saying its going to be huge, etc but its going to be on an uptrend and stabilize simply due to games and price. With the PS4 and the X1 now out everyone's cards are showing. The value is just going to keep stacking in the Wiiu's favor. Not sure its going to be a 3ds level recovery but it will be within reason and probably due to a similar strategy.

My bet is on the X1 having the sales issues going into the new year. Ps4 is direct competition. Games like titanfall will move some consoles but not anywhere near what people think. Microsoft doomed threads coming soon,lol.

This is my thinking as well. $499 for a console is going to be tough sell year round, and I can't see them dropping the price anytime soon. Especially since they've thrown so much at it to get it where it is, exclusive deals and all.
 
This reads exactly likely one of GAFs daily "What Nintendo Needs to do" threads. It's also about as well thought out and persuasive.
 

Midou

Member
The N64 released in 1996, so almost 20 years. Nintendo really hasn't been the same post-SNES. Back in the day you could not only count on their first party studios delivering (I'd argue the best games Nintendo's ever produced was during the SNES era) but they also had some of the best third-party support. The N64 was really where their problems started.

The head of the company would aim to make money though, so I'm not sure how the head should feel bad for 20 years of mistakes when the Wii made them a ton of money. The N64, GC and Wii all had awesome games too.

Third party support is entirely different now than back then anyways. It basically went to the most popular platform up until the PS2, then with last-gen, the race was different and everything went multi-plat since there was no clear winner like the PS2.

So third party stuff side, they still have had a ton of great first party offerings, losing third party support is shitty, but the Wii U hasn't even had time to do anything yet, with titles like Smash Bros and Mario Kart, it should breath more life into the system.
 

Mik317

Member
The N64 released in 1996, so almost 20 years. Nintendo really hasn't been the same post-SNES. Back in the day you could not only count on their first party studios delivering (I'd argue the best games Nintendo's ever produced was during the SNES era) but they also had some of the best third-party support. The N64 was really where their problems started.

It also was only Sega as their competition. Nintendo was top dawg back then, so if you went against them it's Sega or bust fool....then Sony came and there was a legit other option. Now there is 3.
 
Releasing a new console before 2017 would be one of the most stupid things Nintendo could do. It will severely damage their reputation with what fan base they still have while essentially writing off the money they invested in the Wii U. For better or for worse, they have to stick it out this generation and get back on the next.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
There's a reason why Nintendo is in the video game business while Gameradar isn't.

Because what Gamerader is asking Nintendo to do is the most stupidest thing that I have ever heard.

Cutting the support of your console short isn't exactly going to encourage customers over to the new system.

This is one of the reason why the Sega Dreamcast struggled sell because Sega has burned their customers by dropping support for their system early.

But Wii U is not next-gen

The Wii U is next-gen deal with it.

I grew up loving Nintendo... but they could make SO MUCH MONEY if they would swallow their pride and become a third party. Their hardware just isn't anything special - and hasn't been for years.

Truly depressing for someone raised on Nintendo.

Because going third party worked so well for Sega.

If Nintendo went third-party the quality of their game would drop and titles like The Wonderful 101 would never get green lighted as Nintendo knows they won't sell.
 

Mik317

Member
This reads exactly likely one of GAFs daily "What Nintendo Needs to do" threads. It's also about as well thought out and persuasive.

I think we all need to agree to give them a break for like a day (until the Cranky bomb hits).

I am totally going to just quote my posts from older threads from now on....my senile ass is starting to repeat myself...
 

spock

Member
Nintendo shouldn't scrap the system. But they should start making plans to. As soon as 2016 hits, let it go and release the hybrid everyone has been clamoring for. At that point, the 3DS will be looking long in the tooth as well. It's that or go third party in my mind. The handheld market is going nowhere but down, and Nintendo doesn't seem to have the ability to compete in the console space anymore. Combine the two and get the maximum bang for your buck.

I'd hate to be the head of Nintendo at this point. 20 years of mistakes culminating all at once. Shame.

You really need to go look at Nintendos profit sheets for the last 20 years....lol They have had 1 loss year I think outside the current situation. Nintendos long term numbers surprised the heck out of me...Because they where better and stronger then anything I thought.

Back to the topic at hand, as another gaffer mentioned MS's $500 price tag is going to be a hard sell year round. Now if nintendo can get that 249 price to be its norm all year round along with steady game releases each month they will do well.
 
nintendo third party will only make marios, zeldas, pokemon and your ocassional animal crossing, forget about everything else for long time.
They will also invest a lot in mobile, porting their old games to ios and android,they will close a lot of their studios and then sever their ties with western collaborators like next level .
 
I get that but it doesn't have to be that way. Two sources of income is better than just one. You don't put all your eggs into one basket if you don't have to. And is the whole Hybrid thing just a suped up Wii U. If People don't get it or like it like so many claim...then why would they want this?

It's not a Wii U because (a) it's actually portable and (b) the hook isn't to be playing with two screens. The hook is having a huge library that you can play on the go or at home.

My main issue is that the tech isn't there and if it was it would be kinda expensive. We are talking about something that has to have HD screens, high tech, stream to a TV (or have ports), all the other high tech stuff people will want as I doubt a fully portable Wii U is good enough...that is is expensive and that alone will give people the go ahead to not buy it...and it will flop or force Nintendo to drop the price, losing them even more money...and now they dont have the handheld fall back.

Well, if the tech isn't there, you're right. Then they couldn't do it. But Nintendo isn't going for the latest and greatest tech, which is exactly why the hybrid is a good idea.

The handheld power is approaching their console, and the diminishing returns are there. Maybe when it's being used as a handheld, it uses less power and doesn't output to HD screens? And then when used as a bridge to the TV, it can be plugged in for more power and then outputs HD and fancy effects, like improving your computer?

I don't know the costs, but it's worth looking into.


The Hybrid Idea is a contradiction from what people say they want.

This is never a good argument. "People" want different things.

They want power, 3rd parties, cheapish, and new IPS.....does this hybrid give them that? It's the least dumb of the normal answers but I do wonder if those calling for it truly thought it out.

The hybrid would be undoubtedly be cheaper than buying both a 3DS and a Wii U for all your Nintendo needs. Part of the strategy would be about consolidating the Nintendo Handheld install base with the Nintendo Console install base.

Such a consolidated audience could indeed be more attractive to third parties. Because while they're abandoning ship on the console side, they still support 3DS to a degree. Suddenly Monster Hunter 4 becomes a game you can play on the go or at home, and it can be sold to both the Console and Handheld fans because they both bought the same device.

As for new IPs, I absolutely think the hybrid helps this cause. It's one of their biggest advantages. Look at how they rushed out NSMB2 and NSMBU back to back. Look at how development effort is made porting games like Donkey Kong Country Returns. Think about how "one per platform" franchises have to be made twice to accommodate two platforms.

Now, imagine if the NSMB team only had to make one NSMB game. Imagine if the Mario Kart team only had to make one entry as the defining Kart game. Instead of rushing to alternate between console/handheld/console/handheld, these developers could take a break on the franchises.

These devs could then be making new stuff. They could be in the search for the Next Big Thing, instead of constantly reviving the Last Big Thing. The only way we got a Last of Us was when Naughty Dog was able to take a break from Uncharted. And now Sony has two big franchises instead of one.

This would also lessen franchise fatigue, and it'd be better for the games because the reinvigorated developers would be able to come up with some fresh ideas rather than half-assing some new "innovation" like coins in NSMB2.


The Handheld fallback plan is what has saved Nintendo countless times...I just don't think forcing everything into one is smart because they lose that option. Their handhelds will be fine...never DS levels again barring a Tablet (lol) or something but they will do fine as long as they know to release at a great price with some software of note (They need to launch with Pokemon....). They can fix the console space too, or at least become profitable in that field again and thus have two sources of income that brings in money.

i just haven't heard a compelling argument for the hybrid

The hybrid doesn't get rid of the handheld. It is the handheld. It just also outputs to the TV. And it has twice the library.

If anything, the hybrid is an understanding of the threat of smartphones. It fortifies all of Nintendo's resources (including VC which I haven't mentioned) with a single strong ecosystem.

Nintendo has droughts (bad ones) on both their console and handheld side. Those hurt hardware sales and software sales. A consolidation of resources works to end those droughts.

Nintendo has some of the best developers in the world. All of them could be developing for the same platform. That's such an enticing proposition, it could not only attract Nintendo Handheld fans and Nintendo Console fans, but it might also attract fence-sitters for both.
 

Gleethor

Member
Nintendo shouldn't scrap the system. But they should start making plans to. As soon as 2016 hits, let it go and release the hybrid everyone has been clamoring for. At that point, the 3DS will be looking long in the tooth as well. It's that or go third party in my mind. The handheld market is going nowhere but down, and Nintendo doesn't seem to have the ability to compete in the console space anymore. Combine the two and get the maximum bang for your buck.

I'd hate to be the head of Nintendo at this point. 20 years of mistakes culminating all at once. Shame.

By "everyone" you mean "a handful of people on message boards who have been repeatedly told why this is a bad idea".
 
Ladies and gentleman I give you game journalism!

Seriously, are they that stupid? First of all, it's been one year. People need to give the Wii U AT LEAST one more year before you can call it a failure. Nintendo has tons of games coming out and a chance to redeem their poor marketing through most of this year. If Mario Kart and Smash, along with aggressive marketing cannot get the Wii U in peoples homes, then nothing probably will.

But the other thing is... Do people honestly expect Nintendo just to snap their fingers and bring a console out of thin air? It takes YEARS to develop a new console. Nintendo have always said as soon as they release a console they start thinking about what their next one will be. You can bet that they have begun this process again, if not deep into it already, especially with things not going so well with the Wii U. They mention Christmas 2015 for a new console, and lets say that is possible. Is Nintendo supposed to just discontinue the Wii U, and take all the nearly finished titles coming out in 2014, and shift their development to Wii U's successor? That would mean no Nintendo console games for 2 years. The people that own Wii U's are probably Nintendo's most loyal fans. This would piss them off beyond anything they have ever done. They would risk loosing their most hardcore fanbase on a gamble that might not even pay off.
 
I'd prefer they just fix the account system, add achievements, and keep putting out Wii U games. I'll upgrade my PC in the next year or so and it will embarrass the PS4, the Xbone, and any theoretical new Nintendo console.

Really don't get the power chest thumping. I buy my consoles for exclusives.
 

Taker666

Member
Utter stupidity. If Wii U isn't getting ports from the 360/PS3..a more powerful machine won't get them from PS4 and Xbox One. They'll just have a bigger flop costing them far more money.

Nintendo need to get further away from the type of machines Sony and Microsoft have..not closer.
 

spock

Member
Ladies and gentleman I give you game journalism!

Seriously, are they that stupid? First of all, it's been one year. People need to give the Wii U AT LEAST one more year before you can call it a failure. Nintendo has tons of games coming out and a chance to redeem their poor marketing through most of this year. If Mario Kart and Smash, along with aggressive marketing cannot get the Wii U in peoples homes, then nothing probably will.

But the other thing is... Do people honestly expect Nintendo just to snap their fingers and bring a console out of thin air? It takes YEARS to develop a new console. Nintendo have always said as soon as they release a console they start thinking about what their next one will be. You can bet that they have begun this process again, if not deep into it already, especially with things not going so well with the Wii U. They mention Christmas 2015 for a new console, and lets say that is possible. Is Nintendo supposed to just discontinue the Wii U, and take all the nearly finished titles coming out in 2014, and shift their development to Wii U's successor? That would mean no Nintendo console games for 2 years. The people that own Wii U's are probably Nintendo's most loyal fans. This would piss them off beyond anything they have ever done. They would risk loosing their most hardcore fanbase on a gamble that might not even pay off.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts when I first saw the article. The rational and reasoning from someone supposedly an insider to the industry is just ridiculous. Sure you can argue and say that kind of stuff as a fan on a forum but as an actual article and member of the press?

Outside of Nintendo following the 3ds playbook (games, price, etc) & aggressive marketing I really think they should leverage mobile as a marketing channel. They should release some free games and start crushing the app charts just for brand awareness and to some how connect those mobile games to their consoles. They could kick so much ass on mobile with minimal effort and use it as some kind of funnel without doing much harm to their core business. I honestly wish I could pass on some ideas I have directly to them...
 

wsippel

Banned
It'll fix their third party problems.
If it was about power, Wii U would have gotten high quality ports of all PS360 games released over the last twelve months. It didn't. They could design a system that's five times as powerful as the PS4 and Xbone combined and it wouldn't make a difference.
 

MAtgS

Member
Maybe Nintendo can buy the XBox division when Microsoft sells it. That'll give them a system that actually sells.
 

Herne

Member
I'm launch Wii U owner and I want Nintendo to abandon the Wii U and release a new system more powerful than PS4.

I'd rather get a new Nintendo system with all third party games and Nintendo games then buy a PS4 and keep the Wii U around.

I'm also a launch Wii U owner and I wouldn't give a shit if Nintendo's next system has N64-level graphics. As long as I get to play Nintendo games, I don't care.

Having the same level graphics as the original XBox didn't help the GameCube - third parties didn't flock to it then, so why should a Nintendo console with the same as or better tech than Microsoft or Sony's consoles attract them when it didn't before?

Maybe Nintendo can buy the XBox division when Microsoft sells it. That'll give them a system that actually sells.

You mean just how, a generation ago, the Wii outsold the 360 despite being dead for the last two years?
 

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
Wii Z

At first it was about mii
then it was about U
Now, we have no fucking idea of what we're doing.
 

Ansatz

Member
No. Single platform future, two SKUs. One is the natural successor of 3DS, the other is a stationary box that plays the same games with an upscaled resolution.
 
Their next console should be a hybrid of portable and home console. They would have both markets covered. I would buy it day 1 because it's guaranteed to have huge support and it's gotta be region free

If the 3DS was a hybrid console there would have never been a drought for the past 10 months on the Console front. I would have bought one on day 1
 
I think they need to stop splitting their resources between handheld and consoles and focus on exactly one major product, probably a handheld, and make that the future of their company.

Maybe they'll merge their handheld and console division and the next handheld comes with HDMI out?
 

Mik317

Member
Freezie,

when I was talking about cost I meant more so for Nintendo. For that tech to work, it would be costly to make. You can't have XBone level at worst level graphics on something that also has to be a handheld too.

The other stuff, I can be swayed on as I am no expert.

Like I said, it's the least stupid idea out of the normal go tos but I just don't think it's feasible right now nor it is the best choice. Making a good console and a good handheld is a better option....Now whether or not Nintendo is capable is something else lol.

I can be swayed on the hybrid thing as the point about a more games is a good one as it is the best way to "save" Nintendo. It is a lot easier to buy a Nintendo box (if 3rd parties still stay away) when there is a shitton of games per year...however putting everything in to one basket is stupid risky and if it fails to take off for whatever reason, the company could find itself bleeding money with nothing to fall back on.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
so long as they tech was where it should be (at least what sony/ms is doing with their systems in 2013), i'd be there
 
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