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//: StarCraft II World Championship Series 2014 America, Europe & Korea Season 1
- Thread starter SamuraiX-
- Start date
Crimsonlink
Member
Man DTs suck ass.
Flash should have gotten the 3rd CC for more scans instead of more rax. He tried his best though. Lets see if Flash has better luck in game 2 or simply beats the other 2 players.
Flash should have gotten the 3rd CC for more scans instead of more rax. He tried his best though. Lets see if Flash has better luck in game 2 or simply beats the other 2 players.
unknownstranger
Member
No idea why Flash didn't place Missile Turrets in his mineral lines sooner when he knew DT's were coming.
My first time seeing this map.
My first time seeing this map.
AdventureRacing
Member
Flash had a poor opening, the reaper opening already puts you a little behind ecomonically but when you have to scan as well to see their tech it puts you behind. After that he just lost way to much to the DT harass.
Flash needs to hit hard soon. Protoss lategame is unstoppable aside from player error.
Yep, he pushed too late, and even though he wrecked the protoss army it didn't matter. He needs to watch more Maru games where the terran attacks early to do poking damage, setting up for an overwhelming assault in the mid before protoss can steamroll.
Yep, he pushed too late, and even though he wrecked the protoss army it didn't matter. He needs to watch more Maru games where the terran attacks early to do poking damage, setting up for an overwhelming assault in the mid before protoss can steamroll.
unknownstranger
Member
Damn Flash just got outplayed.
AdventureRacing
Member
Flash played poorly imo. There may be problems with PvT but flash could have won that game quite easily.
Crimsonlink
Member
Flash is way too passive sometimes and over commits in other regards.
Of course TvP is still being stupid with the MSC and the upgrades being chronoed out so fast that it was 1/1 vs 3/3. Really sad about this. Hope Bravo takes it vs Leenock and then Flash can take out Leenock and Yongwha in a row to take a Code S spot.
Of course TvP is still being stupid with the MSC and the upgrades being chronoed out so fast that it was 1/1 vs 3/3. Really sad about this. Hope Bravo takes it vs Leenock and then Flash can take out Leenock and Yongwha in a row to take a Code S spot.
I don't know about easily when one attack is blocked by slow time and forcefields, and then deflected again after a quick drop thanks to photon overcharge. Protoss can defend two bases with almost no units.
unknownstranger
Member
Flash had plenty of time to catch up after the first SCV pull but instead smelled blood and went for a second SCV pull.
Crimsonlink
Member
It really is infuriating to see. My blood pressure is rising when I saw that Yonghwa just put down a 2nd Overcharge while teching up because he didn't bother warping in any units. He literally had 2 stalkers from the beginning and 1-2 sentries. But of course if Flash commits and attacks and loses his army. The counter attack would kill him.
Flash had only one widow to push when 2 rangeless colossus were out and the MSC was out of energy but Flash couldn't take that chance due to to no Medivac to mitigate stim.
It was a narrow choke so he would have just been force fielded back again anyway.
AdventureRacing
Member
After he baited out those first 2 PO's the game should have been over. He never pushed in or tried to drop when he got medivacs. If someone like maru was playing he would have destroyed youngwha there.
That's not why it was 1/1 vs 3/3. Flash was planning to allin so he stopped upgrading after 1/1. He wasn't far behind in upgrades especially considering how greedy youngwha was being with upgrades.
I agree that the MSC early game is bullshit. Right now they need to make changes. You can't remove the MSC and PO or early game protoss simply won't survive early terran harass with medivac speed. There needs to be some changes early game to fix this on both sides imo.
Even when he got medivacs he didn't even try to harass with them. He didn't need to take chances he knew the MSC was out of energy so he could have poked more aggressively.
Flash played way too cautious all game (even his opener puts him behind economically in order to be safe).
Edit: Also i question his decision making if that situation after the MSC was out of energy was a risky situation to push in. If that's too much of a risk then i don't know why he is pulling scv's. You're basically just flipping a coin and hoping your opponent fucks up. At least earlier on he had things slightly more stacked in his favor.
The main problem is Flash is an early / late game player. He either wins with an early rush, which is impossible against protoss without being very lucky, or a late game overwhelming force, which is even more impossible. The style and approach he's taken since the broodwar days just doesn't work in current TvP. Maru dominates because his style is the only thing that does work.
Crimsonlink
Member
Flash should have started the armory after sniping the 3rd. Then take a 4th. Then pray in the late game that he can get amazing engages.
That was the only time he was ahead in the game. I agree that the 2 reapers is not a good strat. The map is one where reapers are really good so I don't see the need for 2 of them.
I think Flash was scared of blink actually. Then the forge and robo was scouted and he had to change his strat.
Well whatever, Bravo looks like he is going to fall as well. ;_;
AdventureRacing
Member
But when you're given an oppurtunity like that you should be able to take it. Maybe it isn't quite his style but he is a quality player and he should be able to adapt.
It sucks that the terran play style is limited in TvP but right now that's how the game is and you need to adapt to it.
That's where we disagree. When those 2 PO's were baited out flash had a great opportunity to do some real damage. He should have been trying to drop and push at the front. Youngwha simply didn't have the units to deal with that due to how greedy he was being (and flash saw the forges).
I'm not sure it would have worked in this particular game since the main and the natural are close, and the protoss had observers to spot any incoming drops. Even after baiting the charges, the protoss still had forcefields and enough units to snipe medivacs. Even the best possible result wouldn't have ended the game, while losing those units would mean almost no defense against the hordes of zealots and coming collossi.
Maru wins through superhuman speed and multitasking. Flash is ironically nowhere as fast. I'm not expecting great results for Innovation either.
AdventureRacing
Member
Remember that conversation we had about massing a single unit? This is just crazy. It's kinda disgusting how fast turrets go down.
Didn't he have like 2-3 stalkers? He wasn't sniping any medivacs there. Youngwha had less than 30 army supply with 2 collosus.
Didn't he have like 2-3 stalkers? He wasn't sniping any medivacs there. Youngwha had less than 30 army supply with 2 collosus.
Crimsonlink
Member
He didn't have medivacs man! ;_;
Force Fields made it too dangerous to push and losing army that early is dangerous.
Flash and Yonghwa was equal up to that point because neither had lost much.
Flash was late on medivacs so I'm pretty sure even Yongwha had more than that. I'm not saying Flash played a perfect game. He made a lot of mistakes, but his window where he could win was unfairly narrow. But I really need to stop balance whining. It's pointless.
Crimsonlink
Member
Dammit meching players need to work on finishing the game faster! *Shakes fist
I don't see why there was no SHs and using Mutas to snipe the Factories. Bravo didn't even build PFs to protect his stuff.
I don't see why there was no SHs and using Mutas to snipe the Factories. Bravo didn't even build PFs to protect his stuff.
StopMakingSense
Member
If this ends up with Flash v Leenock in losers then 
AdventureRacing
Member
Such a disappointing game 2 ;;. That has got to be demoralizing after that first win.
I mean when he did. When his first 2 medivacs arrived flash was up by around 20 army supply. Right then Youngwha was upgrading 2/2 and collosus range and was building i think his 3rd collosus. He also had no PO's.
A single stimmed marine or scan would have shown flash that youngwha didn't really have the army to punish him.
I mean when he did. When his first 2 medivacs arrived flash was up by around 20 army supply. Right then Youngwha was upgrading 2/2 and collosus range and was building i think his 3rd collosus. He also had no PO's.
A single stimmed marine or scan would have shown flash that youngwha didn't really have the army to punish him.
The collosi were right between the two bases, plus there were forcefields. There was no range, but Flash didn't know how far that was from finishing. He should have gone for it, but he was never going to do serious damage. He didn't have the forces to snipe a nexus in time.
AdventureRacing
Member
It's not about ending the game. Picking off a collosus or even some probes makes a big difference. Even just force him to pull his probes off the mineral line in the main. The point is you can't just let a protoss go double forge straight into collosus range and go light on units without getting something done. Flash starts with a build that puts him behind and then lets the protoss play greedy. He is handicapping himself. The worst part is what youngwha did is the perfect counter to an scv pull and yet flash went ahead and did it anyway.
The matchup is difficult but i don't buy that you can't win (we have seen players winning even in pro league).
unknownstranger
Member
That whole series was brutal to watch. Bravo was outmatched but got lucky that Leenock stayed on only Muta's for so long in game 1.
AdventureRacing
Member
Another zerg who doesn't bother with corruption. I really hate that, such a simple spell that makes corrupters so much more powerful.
You would think with his experience and success that perhaps looking at a foreign team could be an option. I agree that he would be a solid pickup for a kespa team.
You would think with his experience and success that perhaps looking at a foreign team could be an option. I agree that he would be a solid pickup for a kespa team.
Crimsonlink
Member
Prime really should have picked up Leenock for their team but they took in Kassia and Departure instead.
AdventureRacing
Member
TBH i don't really know what primes line-up looks like anymore. Things have been changing so fast lately. Leenock would have beena damn good pickup for them.
Crimsonlink
Member
I'm done for the day. Need some sleep and I as much as I want to cheer on Flash, I don't have the time. GL HF to all the players left in the matches.
AdventureRacing
Member
The blessing of being on SEA time . I feel for you guys in EU and NA trying to watch GSL.
. I feel for you guys in EU and NA trying to watch GSL.AdventureRacing
Member
Oh man that was bad lol. Tonight really hasn't been as good as i was expecting.
First series was pvp so quick I missed it. RorO just took a game off Cure. He's the better player so he'll probably win the series, but I hope both of them take down these protossi.
And RorO takes his first series, looking in great shape. Should have never put him on my anti-team.
And RorO takes his first series, looking in great shape. Should have never put him on my anti-team.
unknownstranger
Member
Mech sucks against Zerg without constant Hellion/Hellbat harass. RorO basically got 5 bases for free.
Crimsonlink
Member
Wow Panic won vs Hurricane that fast? Well it was a PvP.
RorO dominated Cure thanks to Mutas and Roaches in games 1 and then 2. Looks like we will see one of every match up except TvT and ZvZ.
BTW if Cure gets knocked down then only 10 Terrans have a chance of making it to Code S and with Maru that makes 11 Terrans possible in Code S. I predict that less than half of Terrans will make it so at most we will have 6 Terrans in Code S LOL.
There are already 10 Toss and another 4 look to pass easily with the groups they got.
6 Zergs with 1 Zerg confirmed due to 3 Zergs in the last group.
Another 4-5 should go up as well. So 12 Zergs.
14 P +12 Z + 6 T= 32
RorO dominated Cure thanks to Mutas and Roaches in games 1 and then 2. Looks like we will see one of every match up except TvT and ZvZ.
BTW if Cure gets knocked down then only 10 Terrans have a chance of making it to Code S and with Maru that makes 11 Terrans possible in Code S. I predict that less than half of Terrans will make it so at most we will have 6 Terrans in Code S LOL.
There are already 10 Toss and another 4 look to pass easily with the groups they got.
6 Zergs with 1 Zerg confirmed due to 3 Zergs in the last group.
Another 4-5 should go up as well. So 12 Zergs.
14 P +12 Z + 6 T= 32
But I'm sure DK will just ignore that and throw out some bull shit about "sample sizes" yet continue to use Protoss going full foreigner in Proleague as the barometer.
Crimsonlink
Member
I'm only going to watch this group sadly. Hope Fantasy and Bbyong passes on and adds more Terrans to Code S.
They both are playing pretty terribly but Panic didn't have a choice on Dade point.
RorO just went blank minded in game 1.
They both are playing pretty terribly but Panic didn't have a choice on Dade point.
RorO just went blank minded in game 1.
Cure turtled too much. He's about to lose.
Edit: Could anyone lend me some spare crow?
Those EMPs were SICK CITY! I have never seen a Protoss army vanish in an instant like that. Immortals don't mean shit if they don't have their Hardened Shields.
And that's how you make mech work against Protoss. Beautiful.
Edit: Could anyone lend me some spare crow?
Those EMPs were SICK CITY! I have never seen a Protoss army vanish in an instant like that. Immortals don't mean shit if they don't have their Hardened Shields.
And that's how you make mech work against Protoss. Beautiful.