KojiKnight
Member
Until Thief 4 comes out? Not really no. Not unless you're like me and want to see the pretty numbers when you do the star swarm stress test.
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AMD Mantle Thread - Time to shake some things up!
- Thread starter KojiKnight
- Start date
Until Thief 4 comes out? Not really no. Not unless you're like me and want to see the pretty numbers when you do the star swarm stress test.
zephervack
Member
I thought the 7970 doesn't have any mantle support yet? , everyone saying it feels different with that card is pure placebo.
KojiKnight
Member
7970 has support on the driver level, but it's not fully optimized in BF4. Not sure if there are no benefits, but it's definitely not running as well as it could be.
I see a difference with my 7950. It just seems smoother. Unless I'm crazy.
Telephoto999
Member
Use the perfoverlay showgraph command to confirm. You could be getting much smoother performance without actually seeing a huge framerate improvement.
Turin Turambar
Member
Which, in the other hand, also shows the bad side of Mantle: every game have to optimize paths for every card generation in a more specific way than with Dx. Low level api = more job to cover all the video cards.
KojiKnight
Member
Errr.... not really. The alternative to optimizing for cards is to wait for AMD/Nvidia themselves to apply optimizations on the driver side which is what we currently do (which is why it can sometimes be weeks to months before a game gets fully optimized drivers for games) which is currently what happens via directX.
So the "bad" side you mention is something that is already a "feature" of direct X and therefore not any more of a downside than our current system.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
I have a 7970 and my experiences with mantle was crashing and memory leak :/ I understand it's a beta and it's not optimized. However I did notice a 10+ fps improvement when it did run fine.
rudieboy77
Member
Hey you got it running, awesome. I have the same gpu and am having the same issues. I just deactivated it until it gets worked out.
but I didn't do any crossfire
RazorbackDB
Member
isn't 260x just a rebranded 7970 with the true audio dsp activated? it should run fine.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
The 7870 supports Mantle correct? It is now rebranded as the 270x as well, right?
Keysersoze
Banned
Anyone have an issue installing the driver and it still showing up as 13.10? I've completely purged 13.10 and installed 14.1 but it still shows up as 13.10.
KojiKnight
Member
7870 owner <-- mantle works for me. At least with Star Swarm, I don't have BF4 to test it.
Irobot82
Member
Do you have an intel chip? You have to disable your intel graphics in device manager.
That 780Ti is murdered alright.
No. It's 7790 with the DSP activated ..
Skyfireblaze
Member
Well as much as Mantle boosted and smoothed things out for me in the BF4 Multiplayer I had to revert to DX11 for now 
Mantle really made a difference for me and I am able to play even Shanghai 64 player on Ultra at almost always 60fps with my 7970 though around 15 minutes into the match my VRAM starts to fill up and leaked into till I eventually hit the 3gb mark and my game freezes and crashes. This happened 4 times on different maps and servers :/
Still especially after switching back to DX11 it was really jarring to play and only then I realized how much Mantle smoothed things out, DX11 suddenly felt so jumpy and uneven in direct comparison. I hope future patches and drivers will fix that quick so I can go Mantle full-time!
Mantle really made a difference for me and I am able to play even Shanghai 64 player on Ultra at almost always 60fps with my 7970 though around 15 minutes into the match my VRAM starts to fill up and leaked into till I eventually hit the 3gb mark and my game freezes and crashes. This happened 4 times on different maps and servers :/Still especially after switching back to DX11 it was really jarring to play and only then I realized how much Mantle smoothed things out, DX11 suddenly felt so jumpy and uneven in direct comparison. I hope future patches and drivers will fix that quick so I can go Mantle full-time!
Played about 2 hours of BF4 this morning with Mantle enabled, switched back and forth a few times.
If the difference here is placebo, then I must be crazy. 64 player matches on the much tighter China Rising maps and the game was running smooth as butter. I'm playing at 2560x1440, so that may explain why I'm not getting any FPS boost at all.
If the difference here is placebo, then I must be crazy. 64 player matches on the much tighter China Rising maps and the game was running smooth as butter. I'm playing at 2560x1440, so that may explain why I'm not getting any FPS boost at all.
I could not get the showgraph command to work but the Drawfps did.
EDIT:Old Direct X shot (has AA RadeonPro tweaks left on because I'm derp)
http://i.minus.com/iLL2DY2QtwZIy.jpg
EDIT: Updated Directx shot (minus RadeonPro tweaks)
Mantle
Looks like I'm not crazy.
GPU 7950
CPU AMD FX 8-core 8120 (4.0ghz)
Mantle turns off AA, lowers the draw distance, and lowers shadow detail.
Something seems weird about those two screenshots you posted.
Maybe, I can see how you gained nearly 35 FPS.
Or it could be dependent on the server you joined and whether the middle building has fallen or not. Not to mention player count on the server.
Not a fair comparison really.
EDIT: You know what, I'm calling that out. Those two shots are fishy. You did something to them Minion or Mantle severely downgrades the game.
Something seems weird about those two screenshots you posted.
Maybe, I can see how you gained nearly 35 FPS.
Or it could be dependent on the server you joined and whether the middle building has fallen or not. Not to mention player count on the server.
Not a fair comparison really.
EDIT: You know what, I'm calling that out. Those two shots are fishy. You did something to them Minion or Mantle severely downgrades the game.
Ricerocket
Member
Yeah there is a noticable downgrade between the two. The papers look like a mess, the sidewalk to the right isn't the same color for some reason. Less AA overall on everything.
It's a 64 man server with all settings max. I joined it 6 times flipping back a forth between mantle and direct X. I got the same results everytime. I think this goes to show what a shitty CPU the AMD 8120 is. I feel like punching my friend for convincing me to buy it over the i5 I wanted.
DarkLiberator
Banned
I haven't noticed any difference between the two besides the fog which doesn't have an impact on framerate apparently.
That extra edge AA in the Directx shot is from the program "RadeonPro" (it does not work with mantle). I had totally forgot I added SMAA and triple buffered V-sync with it.
Updated Directx shot (minus RadeonPro tweaks)
The server had 24 players at this point and still not much of a difference from the shot first posted.
a little pre and post. i used the test range to try to get the most accurate results.
i5 2500k @ 3.8ghz
amd 7950 @ 925/1250
8 gigs ddr3 1333
everyting ultra, terrain quality/decoration on low (which = ultra), aa deferred off, aa post high, occlusion off
pre mantle 129fps
mantle 139fps
i5 2500k @ 3.8ghz
amd 7950 @ 925/1250
8 gigs ddr3 1333
everyting ultra, terrain quality/decoration on low (which = ultra), aa deferred off, aa post high, occlusion off
pre mantle 129fps
mantle 139fps
I could not get the showgraph command to work but the Drawfps did.
Direct X
Mantle
Looks like I'm not crazy.
GPU 7950
CPU FX 8-core 8120 (4.0ghz)
Strange.. Mantle seems to have lower draw distance or the fog is obscuring the distance with those bf4 screen shots... Can't see the most distant building or the building inbetween the 2. AA also looks to be less active on the power lines ever so slightly?
Unknown Soldier
Member
So basically Mantle is only for AMD and low-end Intel CPUs, or for high-end CrossFire setups? In other words, severely CPU-bound PC builds?
People who own an i5 or i7, and a single AMD GPU, need not apply it seems.
People who own an i5 or i7, and a single AMD GPU, need not apply it seems.
The extra fog is noticeable in Siege of Shanghai. I heard the brightness of Mantle is a glitch that will be fixed. The SMAA was a tweak from a program. I posted an updated shot.
Telephoto999
Member
while I appreciate the results, this isn't a good comparison for mantle at all. Mantle really shines in CPU stressed situations, such as 48+ players or maps like Seige of Shanghai with thousands of particle effects and fire, etc around.
or in bios like a lot of us do
jediyoshi
Member
My cursor is getting a pretty bad vertical offset in the menus, even in fullscreen mode.
Huh does fraps just normally pick up bf4 in mantle for you?
Huh does fraps just normally pick up bf4 in mantle for you?
You still get a noticeable performance bump just not an amazing one.
alexandros
Banned
That's not really realistic for anything other than extremely CPU-bound scenarios.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Yeah, thats what I am doing as well. Another thing to note for anyone that has a 7970, I enable mantle, then switch back to D11 due to some crashing. After awhile I stated bf4 up and still had memory leak and had a frame rate drop.
Dictator93
Member
nah, that "benchmark" is extremely unstable. Crashes for me all the time in DX. Never even starts to render before it crashes.
TheNamelessOne
Member
What is nVidia doing to match this? ARE they doing anything to match this?
SpankmasterC
Member
They were hyping up some OpenGL commands at Valve's Dev Days, see: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=756668
iamshadowlark
Banned
The only thing of record I think is them advocating for Open GL extensions. We know developers want low level access and we know they've spoken out against competing APIs.
Who knows what Nvidia's response will be.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Pushing OpenGL, and probably seeing what happens with DirectX Blue (aka DirectX 12).
I don't think anyone is realistically expecting them to jump on the Mantle train.
cascardian
Member
Turin Turambar
Member
KojiKnight
Member
Shhh... truth-facts have no business in this thread!
iamshadowlark
Banned
They are sorta pushing OpenGL with the newer multi draw command(whose functionality has been apart of Direct X for ages now)but draw calls are only one part of the equation. There are still very prominent issues with things like threading models and end to end register control that can't really be addressed on the level of DX/OGL without complete overhauls.
I fully expect Nvidia to hop in on the low level
API train.
The fact that they haven't fully outright denied it tells me that they are at the least considering something, much to the contrary of the resident "experts"
I actually wonder whether that's all there is to the story. Lacking any concrete information about Mantle API, it's hard to say, but the initial unveil talks gave me the impression this was more than draw-call accelerator, giving you low-level access to aspects like user-controlled memory aliasing (not having your hands tied by the API), which could considerably impact how you implement some things (speed and quality wise).Durante said:
But of course, I may have just been reading into my own wishful thinking there about what I'd want to see from the API...