The Hamburglar
Banned
It’s one stupid fucking movie . It’s basically a retarded James Bond film with stupid use of time travel.
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“Tenet” - 2020, new Christopher Nolan film
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LisaMariaMartin
Banned
His best movie yet. Needs to be watched multiple times though and even then, there are some plot holes that make no sense.
I don't understand the tower scene at the stalsk battle. They say there are snipers in the tower so they need to bomb it twice.
Lets say blue team goes at them inverted and bombs them out, that means at some point the snipers were alive. That means from the pov of red team, the snipers are initially dead and will come back to life to kill them. Thats why they ALSO have to bomb the tower. Which means the snipers in the tower die, come back to life for a split second and die again, this time for good.
If red team doesn't bomb the tower, blue team dies. If blue team doesn't bomb the tower red team dies. This is because from, the pov of blue team, the same thing happens. The snipers are alive, then rewind back to life.
What doesn't make sense is this: at what point of time is the tower intact? answer: only during the split second of time difference between the shot of blue team and red team.
Still think its a masterpiece though.
I don't understand the tower scene at the stalsk battle. They say there are snipers in the tower so they need to bomb it twice.
Lets say blue team goes at them inverted and bombs them out, that means at some point the snipers were alive. That means from the pov of red team, the snipers are initially dead and will come back to life to kill them. Thats why they ALSO have to bomb the tower. Which means the snipers in the tower die, come back to life for a split second and die again, this time for good.
If red team doesn't bomb the tower, blue team dies. If blue team doesn't bomb the tower red team dies. This is because from, the pov of blue team, the same thing happens. The snipers are alive, then rewind back to life.
What doesn't make sense is this: at what point of time is the tower intact? answer: only during the split second of time difference between the shot of blue team and red team.
Still think its a masterpiece though.
Alter_Fridge
Member
It's not a good film at all in the classic sense
But very few films can have you still mulling it over, weeks after you've seen it, trying to piece it all together
But very few films can have you still mulling it over, weeks after you've seen it, trying to piece it all together
Razvedka
Banned
I share these sentiments. I thought it was self indulgent trash.
FreedomOfSpeech
Banned
I turned it off a bit after halfway.. Should have done it sooner.
Bolivar687
Banned
I've seen it four times and I think it's utterly brilliant, not only in the action and inversion sequences that happen on-screen but also in the implications of what those sequences mean and the themes they are trying to convey.
My understanding of this scene was not the snipers inside of the tower but the team on the ground, because they would have seen Ives and the Protagonist running into the hypocenter. When the tower inverts back up into place, them blowing up the top of it allows the debris and smoke to block their line of sight and gives the main characters the distraction they need to get inside. That's why Ives says "if they see us, it's all over," because they would then brief the other team of antagonists about it.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
Just watched it, and it felt like a Mission Impossible movie for people that like sniffing their own farts to me.
And damn, either that blonde was tall or everybody else a midget in that movie.
And damn, either that blonde was tall or everybody else a midget in that movie.
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Dee Dah Dave
Member
Watched ten minutes. The sound mix was shocking so I turned it off.
SJRB
Gold Member
O-N-E
Member
Razvedka
Banned
TEMPORAL PINCER MOVEMENT
The benefit of this kind of operation is still inexplicable. Why? Why do any of that? Just get a bunch of gun ships in the air and blow everything living to paste.
GAMETA
Banned
I enjoyed it. I think the characters needed more development like we see in Inception or Interstellar, the plot this time seemed a bit too shallow and things happened too quickly, maybe a 20 more minutes of world and character building would've done wonders.
The only person I end up caring about was Pattinson's character. The others and the main protag seemed a bit too "yeah, whatever"...
I also think there was some bad acting involved on the scenes with the indian woman...
I think it's a good movie overall. Great concept but maybe only good execution in terms of story telling... had some fucking amazing actions scenes though.
The only person I end up caring about was Pattinson's character. The others and the main protag seemed a bit too "yeah, whatever"...
I also think there was some bad acting involved on the scenes with the indian woman...
I think it's a good movie overall. Great concept but maybe only good execution in terms of story telling... had some fucking amazing actions scenes though.
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O-N-E
Member
There was no internal conflict for the main character aside from "save the world". There was an attempt with the blonde, but it wasn't good enough, not at all.
Massive weakness in the character department. The execution on introducing and expanding on the mechanisms of Tenet at times felt fine and at times very bad.
Most of the action was great, but some scenes felt strangely non-Nolan in how simple they were. Like the simple red filter or lights he used for the one room and blue for the other. I get that it's supposed to indicate the time direction, but it felt too harsh. Needed a better solution for that.
Overall, there are pieces of a good movie in there, but it didn't come together properly.
Tesseract
Banned
i m o
it's way beyond just time direction, calls to question nature versus nurture, free will, allegiances to red versus blue, so forth, ...
there's a trove of ideas to explore w / tenet, but for me the movie is ultimately a good reminder that in this universe it's far easier to destroy something than construct something
hilbert frames and all that, signal processing and energy equivalence
it's way beyond just time direction, calls to question nature versus nurture, free will, allegiances to red versus blue, so forth, ...
there's a trove of ideas to explore w / tenet, but for me the movie is ultimately a good reminder that in this universe it's far easier to destroy something than construct something
hilbert frames and all that, signal processing and energy equivalence
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SJRB
Gold Member
I don't understand the focus on that tower either. To be fair I find it hard to deconstruct the technicalities of a movie that literally tells the audience not to think too hard about the things that happen.
Tenet tries to be super technical by dumping massive, MASSIVE amounts of exposition on the audience, but at the same time tells the viewer to just go with the flow and not overthink things. You can't have it both ways, Nolan, you fucking hack. You either make your time travel movie a watertight mindbender, or you pull a Looper and say "fuck it, let's just have fun".
The entire finale is an endless stream of "why is this happening" situations, especially once you realise that both parties have fucking time travel at their leasurely disposal. I mean, the time loops [or paradoxes] should be endless.
O-N-E
Member
The default is destruction (entropy up), but living beings like humans can construct locally (entropy down).
Anyways, it seems like you got stuff out of it that I didn't (at least not any satisfactory way).
That's cool tho.
Tesseract
Banned
very aware of the physics, each their own insofar as what's extracted since part of the movie's impact is feeling not necessarily facts
thorne did a respectable job but it's clear nolan had to abandon some ideas for practical purposes / readability
btw this scene is absolutely brilliant, belongs in a fucking museum
what is the ultimate impact of unseen information in a universe that tends to devolve physical states to the same state
it's a brilliant paradox
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Tesseract
Banned
in some ways this is like the ultimate crypto movie
if you told me sato(r) was modeled off the blessed unit satoshi, i might beileve you
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
if you told me sato(r) was modeled off the blessed unit satoshi, i might beileve you
Sator Square - Wikipedia
Reference implementation - Wikipedia
TheGrat1
Member
Because they will have inverted troops nearby that can relay your every movement to their comrades allowing them to know your every move before you make it, like they did with the plutonium heist. Plus, the operation has to be kept as small as possible because any paper/electronic trail can be used against them as Sator's allies from the future will be able to intercept it.
She is 6'2 3/4" (1.9 meters)
and probably wearing heels most of the time.
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LisaMariaMartin
Banned
They already explained it in the movie. They didn't want to kill everyone at the site, they wanted to prevent Sator from burying the algorithm under the explosion.
The whole attack is a diversion. Sator and his goons think red and blue team just want to prevent the explosion while the actual team goes into the bunker and lifts the algorithm before Sator can drop it. Thats why they had to blow up the tower. The protagonist had to enter the bunker unseen.
If all goes according to plan, Sator thinks he won, sends the future people the location of the algorithm and dies. In reality though, the protagonist managed to swipe the algorithm undetected so the future people looking for the algorithm in the rubble can't find it there and, well, die.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Yes, I understand this perfectly well, but how can the tower be destroyed at all times? That means it was broken since the inception of time.TEMPORAL PINCER MOVEMENT
From red teams point of view, its already destroyed because blue fired at it. From blue teams point of view, its also already destroyed because red team fired at it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's probably not a good movie, but it's exactly the kind of movie that I wanted to see. We dont make high concept movies like this anymore. This is Nolan going full Kojima and I love it.
If people want standard mediocre action movies they can continue to watch a half a dozen comic book movies that come out every year. This movie is trying to do something more. I am not sure if Nolan pulled off what he was trying to do but its an exceptional movie in every way.
Hollywood needs more movies like this but if the audience keeps rejecting it because they didnt understand it on the first viewing or because it was too loud then we will just keep getting mediocre avengers movies.
If people want standard mediocre action movies they can continue to watch a half a dozen comic book movies that come out every year. This movie is trying to do something more. I am not sure if Nolan pulled off what he was trying to do but its an exceptional movie in every way.
Hollywood needs more movies like this but if the audience keeps rejecting it because they didnt understand it on the first viewing or because it was too loud then we will just keep getting mediocre avengers movies.
TheGrat1
Member
From their respective perspectives it was only destroyed five minutes ago and the people who destroyed it (who, to them, are moving backwards) have just finished taking the shot. Knowing that allows them to get the timing down and they essentially destroy it simultaneously making it no longer an obstacle for their opposite teams throughout the duration of the operation.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Except they don't have time travel at their disposal because "whats happened, happened". There are no multiverses, only a single fixed timeline. Inverting time and waiting is not time travel. You have to go back to the turnstile because if you don't, you never entered it.
The movie is already over from the start because you know that the future people lost. If they had won, the world would have ended the day Sator was on the ship. Stalsk and the Opera siege all happen at the same time which means the protagonist already won at the start of the movie. Thats what Michael Caine tells him at the beginning. He is talking about the opera siege and the explosion at stalsk.
Thats not what I am asking. Look at the picture. blue team destroys the tower at 12:05 which means when red team arrives its already destroyed at 12:03. On the other hand, red team destroys the tower at 12:05 which means it was already destroyed at 12:07.
So the tower had to be built during that very small timeframe where blue and red team are shooting it which is just impossible.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I see Hamburger Dalton is playing this down because he does not understand time as a concept.
OT:
The only movie of last year i went to see twice in the cinema. I very rarely, if ever do that (Didn't do that for Dunkirk or Wonder Woman).
And even on second showing was still refreshed. Its like Memento, except Memento is timeless and this, well... is aswell.
There are so many subtle references to thought provoking concepts that, like earlier Nolan movies, its also a great scientific filmic piece to study.
OT:
The only movie of last year i went to see twice in the cinema. I very rarely, if ever do that (Didn't do that for Dunkirk or Wonder Woman).
And even on second showing was still refreshed. Its like Memento, except Memento is timeless and this, well... is aswell.
There are so many subtle references to thought provoking concepts that, like earlier Nolan movies, its also a great scientific filmic piece to study.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
John David Washington is only 5'9 and Kenneth Bragnaugh is 5'10. She is almost 6'3 and wearing heels in almost every scene. So she almost has 8 inches on these guys.
Nolan has a knack for hiring non native English speaking actors for the most exposition heavy parts. I remember not understanding a single fucking thing ken Wantanabe said in Inception and I loved him in The Last Samuari.
The sound mixing is already awful, and an indian accent on top of that is too much.
SJRB
Gold Member
I don't think the image is accurate. I'm rewatching the moment right now and it clearly shows the building destroyed for both teams after the 5 minute mark.
It collapses for blue team [hit on the base of the building], it rebuilds, stands and has the upper floors damaged for red team.
TheGrat1
Member
Both teams destroy the tower at 12:05. Yes, it is rubble at 12:03 from red teams perspective but it will be standing again in two minutes because the people who destroyed it are inverted. They and their action's entropy is inverted. The building's entropy is also inverted from each teams perspectives. It is rubble when they land but the rocket that destroyed it is going to get sucked back into the bazooka that fired it in 5 minutes, simultaneously "fixing" the tower and making it necessary for the respective teams to destroy it themselves. From 12:05 --> 12:00 blue team destroyed it. From 12:05 --> 12:10 red team destroyed it. If red team does not destroy the tower at 12:05 then it will be an obstacle for blue team as they approach it and vice versa.
I really do not know how much better to explain it. "Temporal pincer movement" is the perfect name for it.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Ok so you agree that the lower part of the tower is destroyed at 12:03 when red team approaches the tower?
When red team runs towards the tower, the lower part is destroyed. It gets repaired at 12:05 when the rocket flies backwards into the launcher of blue team.
That means the tower was also destroyed 5 days ago. Or 5 months ago. Or 5 centuries ago. Because blue teams rocket is "repairing" the tower at 12:05, it was destroyed at any time before that.
Who built the tower?
Edit: the only explanation for this is something the indian lady says. she talks about how everything happens simultaneously and to stop thinking in linear terms.
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TheGrat1
Member
I think this is an example of what Neil said about the standard, forward flow of time dominating the inverse. It is possible that the building was fine until the pincer movement happened and only collapsed as the event drew near. Just like the Protagonist's arm wound going unnoticed until a day or so before the airport heist. Also, blue team is going to un-invert at some point. Their perspective (if they went back, flew overhead and watched) would be the same as red team and it would look like the forward time actions are the dominant ones, as no one will be able to un-blow up that building. There is also the possibility that the building was built with inverted materials, further complicating things.
This happened a few other times in the film. Remember the inverted bullet hole that the Protagonist saw in the opera house? The one that got sucked out of the seat? Similar situation, except this time there was no one was there to shoot the seat after the inverted bullet came out. Clearly it was built without a bullet inside. Same with the side mirror on the BMW. Did it come out of the factory broken?
I guess we are simply unable to think of this in non-linear terms.
sol_bad
Member
The fights are forwards and backwards depending on who's perspective it is from. I think the fight mid movie was exceptionally well done. It really felt like both characters were really struggling with what's happening.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
They were struggling because the choreography is confusing.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
Wasn't it only the main protagonist struggling? The inverted one seemed to be in control of the entire situation, emptying the clip so he wouldn't get shot by his own self.
That was probably the best fight scene I have ever seen in a movie (the inverted fight). The movements of the inverted protag were really unnverving and otherworldly.
INC
Member
Why?
First time u see its forwards fighting backwards
Second time its backwards fighting forwards
jufonuk
not tag worthy
So many unnecessary moves. Just overly complex. In the sense the fight could have been streamlined and still cinematic.
I’ve watched a shit load of 90’s B movie martial art films so I know overly complex movie fights.
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SJRB
Gold Member
I dunno, fight choreography where one person moves forward in time and the other moves backwards seems crazy complex to me.
It might look a bit goofy but for me that's just because both characters are way out of their league - how do you fight someone that moves in opposite timeflow?
That said, Nolan has literally never had a good fight scene in any of his films, it's not exactly his forté.
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jufonuk
not tag worthy
That’s my whole point Nolan is good for epic shots and the slow burning stuff and set pieces such as the Joker jail break. That was nicely filmed. Just up closer fast moving action such fights he isn’t as good as other directors. Such as Edgar wright. Who is great as close up fast moving filming. Scot pilgrim, baby driver etc.
Edgar he can’t do epic scope and large set pieces like Nolan but Nolan can’t do balls to the wall action.
But he is a flipping amazing director none the less.
just I don’t think Nolan is the second coming of Christ in cinema form.don’t get me wrong he is amazing. He kind of just had got lost in trying to outdo himself. Kind of like M Night Shylaman or how ever you spell his surname.
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INC
Member
M Knight has 1 good film, the other films have been ok or below par
Nolan had like what?........2 OK films, the rest are well above average.
I wouldnt say he's trying to out do himself at all, he just has a continuing obsession with time.
I get the hate for tenet I really do, there's a shit load I dislike about the film, and yet i still love the concept of the entire thing
Also I presume most have considered that Neil is also the child in the film?
I’ve been wondering since I saw it...the only time travel available in the film is backwards in time; and even then it’s not to a desired time, you have to wait for that time in real reverse time. Time travels normally for both entropy directions. However if you travel to the past inversely aren’t you stranded there? How can you ever get back to your normal point in time if you can’t travel forward, only at a normal pace with waiting?
I guess the catch with all their dealings in inverse time travel is being stranded in the past and becoming the genesis of the thing that Tenet becomes. Sacrifice your future to stay in the past for the future of others while the past becomes your future. Nolan needs to ease up on these time travel stories of his.
I guess the catch with all their dealings in inverse time travel is being stranded in the past and becoming the genesis of the thing that Tenet becomes. Sacrifice your future to stay in the past for the future of others while the past becomes your future. Nolan needs to ease up on these time travel stories of his.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
You're right, there is no time travel. They just reverse time and wait. Thats what one of the characters mentions, no matter what Sator does, he can't outun his cancer.
SirKicksalot
Member
A Luc Besson quote that should be inceptioned in Nolan's hack brain:
S
Sidney Prescott
Unconfirmed Member
I much prefer Nolan's other films such as The Prestige and Inception, but it's not a bad film at all. There is just a lot going on. I would like to rewatch it when I get the chance, a lot of things I missed/didn't understand properly. I liked John David Washington and Robert Pattinson has really come to his own as an actor.
The sound mixing was a bit weird at times, I think subtitles are definitely a good way to watch it. I tend to actually like subtitles anyway because I often mishear dialogue in films. Very easy to do in this one.
The sound mixing was a bit weird at times, I think subtitles are definitely a good way to watch it. I tend to actually like subtitles anyway because I often mishear dialogue in films. Very easy to do in this one.
INC
Member
Tell that to lynch
INC
Member
His sound mixing is some of the worst in the industry, or his demands of the sound mix itself
MastaKiiLA
Member
I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Glad I got to watch it at home first. Probably my favorite Nolan film after The Prestige.
I didn't notice any flaws in the presentation of time flow either, which is nice. The weakest part of the film for me was the weak explanation of the threat that was posted by the algorithm. However, I can excuse that as it established the stakes that fueled the rest of the story. World-ending stakes? Cool, now show me the loops. Fantastic.
I didn't notice any flaws in the presentation of time flow either, which is nice. The weakest part of the film for me was the weak explanation of the threat that was posted by the algorithm. However, I can excuse that as it established the stakes that fueled the rest of the story. World-ending stakes? Cool, now show me the loops. Fantastic.