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1 million people and 40+ world leaders to march against terror in Paris
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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GameGuru59
Banned
Outstanding."It's capitalism, stupid."
GameGuru59
Banned
There is no such thing as a non-political argument. This protest itself is an argument. And it is very political.
Or basically you no empirical evidence to argue witv and can probably only post poorly sourced articles that make vague connections.
Again I've actually been apart of the effort in the past 5 years so my bullshit detector is strangely accurate.
Slavery is another detestable issue, but please don't try to conflate and change the subject or move goal posts.
That was my experience living 22 years in France at least.
Try to do dark humor about black or maghrebin people.
Then try the same joke with jews.
People tend to be more defensive and attentionate about jews, probably because WWII. Which doesn't mean there aren't jokes/satires made at their expense; but you are very fast branded with antisemitism, even if it isn't your point at all. Which isn't helped by actual antisemits that sadly still remain.
It's political on all sides.
See the people that are using this as a case for freedom of speech, rationalization for the continued war on terror, anti immigration policy, etc.
Disagree. There's no real political position on terrorism . Its more of a human rights argument than anything superficial like politics.
There's actually a huge Wikipedia page about this affair, and it doesn't even get into details.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Siné
One of the reasons of the discord between Siné (who was fired) and Val (the publication head) was that Val and some others wanted to show their support of the lawyer in the Clearstream case and some was disagreeing. The lawyer was also the one that was in charge of Charlie Hebdo, so it's even more entangled.
The Clearstream case is an complex affair involving justice, companies linked to the army, listing where the name of the french president was written, etc. The kind of affair that Charlie Hebdo would deal with, but when journalists are taking different sides on a given case, it can only bring discord.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Clearstream_2
I'm pretty sure that Sine was fired only because Val and him couldn't bear each other anymore, and the "joke" was just a convenient pretense.
GameGuru59
Banned
lol. Human rights were attained through political actions, and they are maintained through immense political power in the west. You do not understand the nature of politics.
NonexistentK
Member
Saudi State, just like all the kingdoms and Emirates in the region are creation of the Western powers to protect/benefit the interest of the Western powers (hint there is a reason all the borders in ME look like they were drawn a ruler) Pull western support, these states will fall.
Wahabisim was a minor social/political faction until British Empire decided to fund them, arm them and use them against Ottoman Empire to break of and control the resource rich parts of the empire.
The original "Mujahaddeens" or "Jihajist" got their training by CIA to be used against Soviets (Green Belt Strategy) in the 80's. Saudi funded fundamentalist madrasas (religious schools) that were set up in Pakistan, Afghanistan were also a part of the Green Belt strategy.
Naked Snake
Member
The Shogun
Banned
Taking a stand against people walking into a business and gunning down civilians is now something that is political.
Lol there are some people in this world that want to literally argue about everything.
ComputerMKII
Banned
In Ramallah, West Bank:
ShadowKingpin
Member
Seeing people united for peace is truly beautiful. 
The Shogun
Banned
Seeing people united for peace is truly beautiful.
Yep incredible pictures from all over the world today. So proud
World War here we come.
May I ask why you are saying this?
I'd say that's probably true to some extent, at least recently (that was definitively untrue thirty years ago, curiously, so that may be a little more complex than a WW II consequence).
The "funny" thing is that it's FAR easier to joke about jews in front of jews. They've, as far as my experience go, no problem with humour about jews, and they even go farther themselves than you would.
But even if you're probably open to more criticism (and usually not from jews themselves, again) when you made certain kind of jokes, which lead some people to be cautious and others to be provocative in reaction, I think the bias is far, far less obvious in justice arbitrations. And Charlie Hebdo isn't afraid of criticism for their jokes, and there's no chance such a joke would lead to judiciary consequences.
And indeed, it was ruled twice that Sine's joke hasn't gone too far.
BaronLundi
Member
If you are talking about jokes/satire made in the public sphere (media, press, shows, movies etc.) I wholeheartedly disagree, Jews are the subject/target of jokes and satire as much as Muslims and Christians. This is especially clear in a publication like Charlie Hebdo.
And people are labelled as racists just as much and as easily as they are labelled antisemites (in both cases pure and simple denial being of course in order).
That being said, if you are talking about general racism, especially in the press, then it's a different matter and yes, arabs/muslims/immigrants coming from Africa/roma are undoubtedly the biggest victims.
They were attained thru a colloquial acceptance of said rights, not politics. There's stout differences between the two. Politics and law only codify things but they are literally only paper thin without social acceptance.
It's how we still have racism post Civil Rights
Act. Or how we still have voter oppression post Voting Rights act.
I'd like to think I have a great sense of how social constructs such as law or politics affect society.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Netanyahu is in the synagogue of Paris about to deliver a speech to Jewish French.
Alx
Member
Phew, finally back from the march. It was quite an experience, although I mosty realized it on my way back.
The best description I could make of it is "serene" and "peaceful". And also "crowded". It took me more than an hour to go from one end of Place de la République to the other, and 3 hours in total to get to Place de la Nation. One of the most surprising things is that you wouldn't hear anybody complain ; and when you know the French, it's some kind of miracle. People were neither angry nor sad, just there. Maybe happy to be so many, and eager to show that they (we) are here.
I like the fact that there was no loudspeaker, huge political banners or such things. It really felt like regular people gathering and nothing else. "National unity" may sound like a political buzzword, but that's what it was.
On my way back I checked a few newsfeeds and read that people had friendly chatters with the policemen in charge of security, there were even chants to thank them. That's the second miracle of the day, especially when you know the usual tensions with the police in demonstrations. The old 68ers from Charlie Hebdo would have probably hated it, just like they would have hated the Marseillaise chants or the whole consensual march. But it's something we needed at this time, and a rare occurence in the country. We usually talk a lot about liberty and equality in such events, but it's the first time I've witnessed fraternity. It feels good.
The best description I could make of it is "serene" and "peaceful". And also "crowded". It took me more than an hour to go from one end of Place de la République to the other, and 3 hours in total to get to Place de la Nation. One of the most surprising things is that you wouldn't hear anybody complain ; and when you know the French, it's some kind of miracle. People were neither angry nor sad, just there. Maybe happy to be so many, and eager to show that they (we) are here.
I like the fact that there was no loudspeaker, huge political banners or such things. It really felt like regular people gathering and nothing else. "National unity" may sound like a political buzzword, but that's what it was.
On my way back I checked a few newsfeeds and read that people had friendly chatters with the policemen in charge of security, there were even chants to thank them. That's the second miracle of the day, especially when you know the usual tensions with the police in demonstrations. The old 68ers from Charlie Hebdo would have probably hated it, just like they would have hated the Marseillaise chants or the whole consensual march. But it's something we needed at this time, and a rare occurence in the country. We usually talk a lot about liberty and equality in such events, but it's the first time I've witnessed fraternity. It feels good.
BaronLundi
Member
Imam Chalgoumy being acclaimed in a packed Grande Synagogue of Paris for the memorial service honouring all victims.
a) Because 4 Jews were killed in the terrorist attack
b) Because there is currently a ceremony in the Great Synagogue
c) Because they own the media
d) All of the above
a) Because 4 Jews were killed in the terrorist attack
b) Because there is currently a ceremony in the Great Synagogue
c) Because they own the media
d) All of the above
BaronLundi
Member
The terrorist want one.
Can I call a friend? ^_^
(all 4 in the shop were jews, btw?)
On a similar matter, seeing how Charlie Hebdo was secularist at heart, and attacked as often as possible catholics, I found quite... strange? ironic? (can't find the term) the main Paris church saluting them with bells...
I wish I went to Paris... even if it was nice everywhere.
GameGuru59
Banned
You're talking about "legitimate power." Which is essentially a manifest power structure that has been accepted by society. At one point, the power structure was created through an "exercise of power" (like the US and French Revolutions- and the subsequent drafting of their Constitutions, and the US Civil War and the Amendments that followed it) which is what politics is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(social_and_political)
Wikipedia said:
Wikipedia said:
Also, see the Five Bases of Power.
In all interaction between humans, politics and political power exists.
Embearded
Member
Modern Christian church will only ban you if you try to take money from them or expose them for money scandals.
This retorts nothing I said. And I would argue that in mega democratic systems like what the US employs politics have even less influence. People collectively decide the laws of there society in both theory(law) and practice. Most people don't live in autocratic or authoritarian systems where law is absolute or where politicians gain complete control of governments.
I think its obvious that we are discussing politics on different levels though. I'm talking on a individualized state level where countries like the US have basically reverted into the sham of a government that it has now. American politics are more akin to a dog and pony show than anything substantial.
BaronLundi
Member
Yes. The four men on the bottom left. Yohan Cohen, Yoav Hattab, Philippe Braham and François-Michel Saada.
Having all these people out in the streets in every parts of the world is heartwarming. Having so many officials marching together too. That said...
I really hope Charlie will mock them all with all their heart in their next edition. Make fun of how Leaders can only march together when caricaturists die, of how so many of the marching foreign leaders have no freedom of press, or have lèse-majesté laws. Or how they were able to put millions people in the street in their name but were still struggling selling 50 000 copies of their journal as of last week. Or how so many news outlets gave Charlie credit yet without showing the controversial covers. So much material. Don't fail me Charlie Hebdo, the world will read your next 1million edition. Make it count. Offend us.
I really hope Charlie will mock them all with all their heart in their next edition. Make fun of how Leaders can only march together when caricaturists die, of how so many of the marching foreign leaders have no freedom of press, or have lèse-majesté laws. Or how they were able to put millions people in the street in their name but were still struggling selling 50 000 copies of their journal as of last week. Or how so many news outlets gave Charlie credit yet without showing the controversial covers. So much material. Don't fail me Charlie Hebdo, the world will read your next 1million edition. Make it count. Offend us.
Our poor prime minister (Denmark) fell down the stairs, thankfully she's okay.
And I'm so happy to see us people stand so united in dark times like these. I'm so sad about what happened in France.
Been drankin purple drank
RustyNails
Member
Why is the dude behind her laughing?Our poor prime minister (Denmark) fell down the stairs, thankfully she's okay.
And I'm so happy to see us people stand so united in dark times like these. I'm so sad about what happened in France.
This picture is pretty epic:
Wow, amazing photo.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Naked Snake
Member
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's one for the history books.This picture is pretty epic:
Amazing. Shame on the people trying to make this about something it's not "fake national unity." Yea ok.
Alx
Member
:')
The gendarmery also tweeted that video of the crowd clapping their convoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLpqRvAEigo
Really unexpected.
*edit : timelapse of the Place de la République by Le Monde
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ehytm_a-republique-la-marche-filmee-en-acceleree_news
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