Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You... don't have a TV in your bathroom? Bro, it's not 2008 anymore.
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2016-17 TV Cancellations Thread: TNT finds "Nothing can come of nothing."
- Thread starter Sober
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I really need an iPad.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
who the fuck actually does this
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
That thread triggered me, not gonna lie.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
1.5 speed + scrubbing past boring scenes means you can rewatch tv pretty easily!
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
But I'm watching everything and missing out on nothing! I'm always ready to be part of the conversation! I can have opinions on the internet about shows that I 2x speed through while reading the internet on my smartphone!
The only time I've ever sped through something like that is a youtube channel where the content is great and niche but the presentation is lacking. Some of these people speak so slowly.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
But I'm watching everything and missing out on nothing! I'm always ready to be part of the conversation! I can have opinions on the internet about shows that I 2x speed through while reading the internet on my smartphone!
perfect gif usage lol
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I background watch shows I don't care about so, yeah. lol
dead souls
Member
I would never watch television like that but I have to admit it cracked me up how aghast people were at the idea.
Podcasts on the other hand are pretty much made for at least 1.5x, unless they're music related, or The Bugle. There's no speeding through a pun run.
styl3s
Member
I think most dramas work extremely well when being binged. Aside stuff like procedural shows.
I couldn't imagine watching something like a 24, Lost, Breaking Bad, GOT, Marvel Netflix shows, House of Cards etc. week-week. Network shows i just wait till they are finished airing and then binge them when i have a day off and just want to sit on my recliner like a potato.
Binge watching is great if the show is finished because there is nothing to discuss anyway without being spoiled. But on new stuff it is really a loss because you don't get that communal element. Enjoyment of shows is for me linked to that. A show with a lot of discussion is one I watch intensely.
I had to bail out so quick because I probably would have ended up with a ban had I participated in that thread.
Norwegian Rudo
Member
It's not Jenji Kohan's show, she's just a producer. I think one of the creators is from Nurse Jackie and the other has been working under Kohan.
That is disgusting.
But as long people who do that don't post in show threads complaining it is hard to follow.
Literally had people say they "watched" all of S1 of Daredevil and didn't know
Matt Murdock was Daredevil
How do you miss that? You would have to be blind not to see it.
True dat, and following some shows on twitter is hilarious
spindoctor
Member
Blame showrunners for cliffhangers. I don't think it's incumbent on Netflix to keep shows alive because they couldn't close out their story. And I'm fairly certain that virtually every showrunner knows if their show is on the bubble or not.
I watch some stuff at 1.1x. It's actually not that bad.
Not on Netflix that is notoriously difficult at sharing that information.
dead souls
Member
True, but still why should they throw good money after bad?
Some television shows won't have a proper ending and that's just how it goes. It's inherent to how the medium is made so it's not even worth worrying about.
This man speaks for me when I'm not here.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Just recently got into Blacklist after my family constantly driving me crazy about it.
How does it typically do?
How does it typically do?
Dedication Through Light
Member
Movies on LMN really have some very hot antagnoist guys...too bad their always the bad guys (saw a Nanny Nightmare (Hush Little Baby) and some other movie about some 22yo medical receptionist). I hope the channel never dies.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
The onus is on the showrunners, to a large extent, yeah. But at the same time, if Netflix actually wants people to watch the shows they're investing in, then they'd do well to actually give them endings (even in the form of a rushed wrap up special).
Lilyhammer and The Get Down ended pretty conclusively, so their cancellations weren't a big deal, ultimately, except to those who just wanted more seasons, but with shows that ended on big cliffhangers, it severely undermines their future potential of finding new audiences because not many people want to watch a heavily serialized show that ends on a cliffhanger.
spindoctor
Member
Then those showrunners should make self contained stories per season. Or get a multi year contract in advance. How about they try to make a show that is good enough to make people want to come back and watch it next season instead of leaving the story hanging half way through because they thought they're special auteurs who could never get hit by cancellation.
Let's take the example of Sense 8. It took two full years to get the second season ready and the budget doubled along the way. I'm pretty sure somewhere along the way someone should have noticed that this is not okay. And yet, from what I've read, they left the season on a cliffhanger anyway. Netflix decided not to tolerate it anymore.
Netflix gives showrunners 13 episodes with no time limit per episode to reach that ending. If the showrunner can't do it then the blame is 100% on them. The age of Netflix renewing anything and everything is gone and I don't think this reflects poorly on them at all.
As a side note, I do not understand this attitude of "Oh I won't watch this show because Netflix has a habit of cancelling shows". Because honestly, that's all of TV. Are they not going to watch any television on any channel at all? Literally the only network that is immune to this is the CW and that's because they renew shows whose ratings round down to a flat zero. So yeah, head on over to the Berlantiverse if stability is a primary concern over quality.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
...really?
And almost no serialized TV show is actually written in a way where every season ends conclusively in the event of a sudden cancellation.
Plus, during the production of Sense8 season 2, Netflix had literally never cancelled a show without giving it a proper ending*. They were even giving endings to shows that weren't homegrown, like The Killing, because "complete series are worth more to us".
*Lilyhammer doesn't count
Maybe Netflix should have told the creators of Sense8 (because generally Netflix keeps their showrunners and actors in the dark as to just how successful their shows really are for shady as fuck business reasons) that the show wasn't doing very well and that it would be a good idea to maybe end the season a little more conclusively in the likely event of a sudden cancellation (which, again, had never happened before)? Or that maybe they needed to reign in the budget? After all, Netflix didn't have to let them double the budget of season one (which supposedly only barely got renewed in the first place).
On a normal network, showrunners can look at ratings and whatnot to get a good idea of how well their show is doing - how likely a renewal is, how much their show is worth overall to the network, etc - and write accordingly (whether they choose to actually do that is another story).
It's Netflix's responsibility to have the backs of the people making shows for them, especially given their ridiculous secrecy.
Not all Netflix shows get 13 episodes. Some get just a handful, some get 8, 10, 20, etc. Also, there are limits to how long an episode can last...
Regardless, it is something that many people do not like and won't do. Not everyone is a hardcore TV fanatic who watches so many shows every year that they've become desensitized to hanging narratives.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hey, at least The CW paid for endings to Frequency and No Tomorrow. I mean it probably didn't cost much, but it was something. lol
AngmarsKing701
Member
rimshot
The Illiterati
Member
This is ultimately the point on which I'd like to see Netflix hopefully change/pivot. Do we know for a fact that they didn't give the Wachowskis some direction which was ignored? Maybe they will, going forward, now that they're being much more strict with their renewals. I would hope they give the showrunners guidelines instead of saying they have all the freedom in the world, which just amounts to seemingly unlimited rope to hang themselves with.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
#Girlboss was honestly pretty self contained. I liked it alright but I don't feel a burning desire to revisit the show with more, artificial plotline about how she gets loaded rich. She resolved her family issues to the best of her ability, she had a little relationship thing, and she launched her company. That was the point of the show.
In terms of cancelled Netflix shows, there's:
- Hemlock Grove -- This was truly bad. Did it get a real ending? I don't know, but I have no idea why anyone would have given it one season, let alone three.
- Marco Polo -- Boring, expensive, wouldn't have gotten a second season anywhere else.
- Bloodline -- Natural end, you might even argue went on a little too long.
- Sense8 -- Haven't watched it, but I bet it wouldn't have gotten one season anywhere else. Sounds like it ended without a satisfactory conclusion.
- The Get Down -- Boring, a mess, hugely expensive, I can't imagine anywhere else would have commissioned this, let alone gave it this kind of budget.
- W/ Bob and David -- A fun victory lap but not up to snuff with Mr. Show; also no serial plot, ended of its own accord
- The Characters -- Standalone episodes, not very good
- Girlboss -- As above, hit or miss creatively (I did like it though) and actually came to a pretty good natural stopping point, but I guess cancellation was still unexpected.
- The Killing -- They bought it just to give it a short ending season.
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars -- They bought it just to give it a burn-off ending season.
- Russell Peters vs. the World -- This is awful, and it was a one-off.
- Chelsea Does -- One-off, leading into her show.
- Cooked -- They adapted the whole book.
- The Keepers -- One off, they told the whole story they had to tell.
(There's a handful of kid's CG programs that ended too, but the licensing on these is always super weird and most of them are stand-alone episodes IIRC so it is what it is)
Of all their cancellations as a network going back 5 years, it sounds to me like Sense8 is maybe the only one that legitimately ended at a promising point creatively and would have been able to make good use of another season or some notice to write an ending.
In terms of cancelled Netflix shows, there's:
- Hemlock Grove -- This was truly bad. Did it get a real ending? I don't know, but I have no idea why anyone would have given it one season, let alone three.
- Marco Polo -- Boring, expensive, wouldn't have gotten a second season anywhere else.
- Bloodline -- Natural end, you might even argue went on a little too long.
- Sense8 -- Haven't watched it, but I bet it wouldn't have gotten one season anywhere else. Sounds like it ended without a satisfactory conclusion.
- The Get Down -- Boring, a mess, hugely expensive, I can't imagine anywhere else would have commissioned this, let alone gave it this kind of budget.
- W/ Bob and David -- A fun victory lap but not up to snuff with Mr. Show; also no serial plot, ended of its own accord
- The Characters -- Standalone episodes, not very good
- Girlboss -- As above, hit or miss creatively (I did like it though) and actually came to a pretty good natural stopping point, but I guess cancellation was still unexpected.
- The Killing -- They bought it just to give it a short ending season.
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars -- They bought it just to give it a burn-off ending season.
- Russell Peters vs. the World -- This is awful, and it was a one-off.
- Chelsea Does -- One-off, leading into her show.
- Cooked -- They adapted the whole book.
- The Keepers -- One off, they told the whole story they had to tell.
(There's a handful of kid's CG programs that ended too, but the licensing on these is always super weird and most of them are stand-alone episodes IIRC so it is what it is)
Of all their cancellations as a network going back 5 years, it sounds to me like Sense8 is maybe the only one that legitimately ended at a promising point creatively and would have been able to make good use of another season or some notice to write an ending.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Marco Polo and Sense8 are the big ones. Bloodlines and Longmire are/were being given mercy endings, so it seems strange in terms of what they are willing to fund to conclusion. Although I suppose the latter two are much cheaper than the former two.
Girlboss, of course, came after the company went bust and she lost all her financial and marketing capital. That and like half the women who worked there claimed that they would fire women who had cancer or got pregnant, which also probably soured the imagine. It's a show that literally came a year too late to capitalise on the success of the subject material, or came too a year too early to capitalise on all the scandals.
Girlboss, of course, came after the company went bust and she lost all her financial and marketing capital. That and like half the women who worked there claimed that they would fire women who had cancer or got pregnant, which also probably soured the imagine. It's a show that literally came a year too late to capitalise on the success of the subject material, or came too a year too early to capitalise on all the scandals.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Sense8 getting cancelled and not getting a proper ending is entirely on the Witchaoski Sisters. They knew after the first season that the show wasn't that big in the first place. So instead of tightening their budget and
trying to keep their costs down, they doubled it and risked trying to get a third season. I don't blame Netflix for not even bothering giving them money for a conclusion. Personally I think Hollywood is probably done with the Sisters, they have consistently put out questionable and and not very popular products.
trying to keep their costs down, they doubled it and risked trying to get a third season. I don't blame Netflix for not even bothering giving them money for a conclusion. Personally I think Hollywood is probably done with the Sisters, they have consistently put out questionable and and not very popular products.
I guess I'll still watch it, it getting good buzz helps me.
SunDimension24
Member
Hey don't go killing off W/ Bob & David like that 
They said they still want to do a second season but have to work around Bob's schedule for BCS.
They said they still want to do a second season but have to work around Bob's schedule for BCS. It is either gonna be postponed indefinitely or release in 2024 isn't it?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hmm? Sense8 is like the only thing they've done that has been critically praised in recent years.
Of course, since Netflix never releases numbers, I guess we'll never know if it just bombed hard or whatever. But Netflix must have known that this would be an expensive show from the very beginning, particularly given the fact that the entire cast is spread out across the world, so they probably shouldn't have ordered it in the first place if money was a concern.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I think whatever website that was trying to figure out their algorithm, usually placed Sense8 as not being very popular. And Sense8 originally came out in 2015 and was greenlit probably around the same time as a few others shows (it was even announced before Marco Polo). They had also planned for five seasons with stories planned-out and a the final episode known. This was also known by Netflix presumably since they made the contracts. Them cancelling it proves that the audience simply wasn't there by whatever metric they are using. So let's look over the course of Netflix history and the rise of their shows as being the best producer for television.
2013- House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, and Hemlock Grove (also the same year Sense8 was announced). We know that both House of Cards and OISTNB are hits.
2014-Bojack Horseman and Marco Polo (Marco Polo was announced that same year). Bojack Horseman is not their most successful show, but it is critically panned and cheaper to make than their selections.
2015- Bloodline, Sense8, Narcos, DareDevil, Jessica Jones, Unbrekable Kimmy Schmidt, Grace and Frankie, Master of None, Making a Murderer. The only shows that revived very little buzz were Bloodline, Sense8, and Grace and Frankie. Their first film Beasts of No Nation was declared to be very successful by them which has led the way to having a total of 8 Adam Sandler Movies...
2016- Stranger Things, The Get Down, The Crown, The OA, Luke Cage, Love, Fuller House, The Ranch, etc. Netflix's biggest year yet with tons of new material ranging from culture making shows (Stranger Things) to critically amazing (The Crown). Netflix starts cancelling and ending the shows that are not working (Marco Polo being their biggest), and Sense8 is rumored to be followed if the Second Season disappoints.
2017- A Series of Unforunate Events, 13 Reasons Why, Iron Fist, Santa Clarita Diet, Girlboss, Dear White People, GLOW. Following 2016, Netflix is ready to cancel if they don't see the audience for the show, The Get Down, Girlboss and Sense8 appear to be following this trend.
So is Sense8 the only show that's been critically praised in years? Hardly, if we look at (Metacritic) review scores...
2017:
91 - Master of None
87 - Dear White People
81 - GLOW
81 - A Series of Unforunate Events
80 - Love
78 - Unbreakable Kimmy Schmit
76 - 13 Reasons Why
73 - Sense8
67 - Orange is the New Black
67 - Santa Clarita Diet
60 - House of Cards
53 - Girlboss
37 - Iron Fist
2016:
89 - Bojack Horseman
86 - Orange is the New Black
81 - The Crown
79 - Luke Cage
76 - Stranger Things
76 - Narcos
69 - The Getdown
67 - The OA
And so on and so forth...so no Sense8 was also not among one of their critical darlings, and for the record Sense8 1 is at 64. So while the show did go up in quality between seasons...it's audience didn't grow enough to sustain it.
Want to bet that all these people had multi year contracts in the first place. That doesn't mean your show won't be cancelled.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I should have been clear that when I said "they", I meant the Wachowskis. lol
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Mystery 3000 Theatre or whatever it's called. And House of Cards should be renewed for a final season and be done...or at least be given quality writers.
Oh...well...I had fun at least ¯_(ツ
_/¯MST3K is Mystery Science Theatre 3000.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Well that explains why I didn't understand that abbreviation
This season was great, so you can fuck off.
House of Cards was never truly great. And it went to shit after season 2, it now has cemented itself as the embodiment of a dumb person's idea of a smart show.
But hey, I can fuck off too right?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Okay, that was a bit extreme, but you could have argued why you thought it was great rather than what you said.
I would argue Season 1 was great, the story was complex, but easy to follow. The characters were likeable, but not annoying. It felt realistic in a sense. The text messages being on screen was incredibly modern for its time. It felt smart.
Now Seasons 2 and 4 were good-ish. Seasons 3 was pretty slow, and almost a little aimless at times, but had decent payoff for the beginning arc of Season 4. Season 5, kinda dragged, had questionable writing, and just was not a good story.
It feels like Orange is the New Black followed the same trajectory as House of Cards.
Season 1 - Great
Season 2 - Good
Season 3 - Felt pretty slow
Season 4 - Goes back to being good again.
Season 5 - Very divisive / Mixed bag
Lady Dynamite was already renewed for season 2, right? I haven't heard a peep about that show.
Good stuff. I guess this will be the Gould-only season, since Gilligan is off doing his HBO show and will apparently hop back on for the potential fifth and final season (if what they say in interviews is the full current plan).
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Happy that Saul is renewed, maybe this will be the only year they can win Best Drama. I think it definitely deserves it.
This is so true lol, although I will say OITNB Season 5 is probably better than HoC Season 5.
Like I said above, I liked OITNB more, but I also binged all of House of Cards before Season 5, so I saw the quality dropped. I think OITNB had an interesting idea, but stretched it out too long, plus the cliffhanger this year was somewhat similar to Walking Dead Season 6 finale.
This is so true lol, although I will say OITNB Season 5 is probably better than HoC Season 5.
Like I said above, I liked OITNB more, but I also binged all of House of Cards before Season 5, so I saw the quality dropped. I think OITNB had an interesting idea, but stretched it out too long, plus the cliffhanger this year was somewhat similar to Walking Dead Season 6 finale.
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