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A familiar face is returning to Doctor Who Series 10 (Massive Spoilers)
- Thread starter Dalek
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infiniteloop
Member
Missy kills Simms Master, Simms Master regenerates into... David Bradley as the first doctor.
Exterminieren
Banned
The potential's there for a Two Masters story to be wonderfully fucked up, particularly given Gomez's involvement. Can't wait for that.
I guess part of me just wanted to remind us that we live in the Eric Roberts timeline.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Go balls out. Like, if they were actually going to do The Five Masters - bring in some Doctors, too.
Like, if Alex McQueen gets his live action five minutes, bring Eight back with him for a sec.
Like, if Alex McQueen gets his live action five minutes, bring Eight back with him for a sec.
Spectromixer
Member
Can't believe the BBC actually confirmed it, awesome.
I would assume
The first Doctor and Susan will be in this story based on the rumors they're going to appear. Who knows maybe they will bring in some other Doctors as well to battle all the Masters.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I wonder if this might also be a way for Moffat to tie up one last Capaldi loose end: Where did he fly in from when he arrived to help all the other Doctors zip up Gallifrey into that pocket dimension from Day of the Doctor?
I mean, we're gonna have two Masters. Maybe we'll end up with extra Doctors. And maybe the one thing will lead to that other. (shrug)
I mean, we're gonna have two Masters. Maybe we'll end up with extra Doctors. And maybe the one thing will lead to that other. (shrug)
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Who the hell wants to the see the worst master in Doctor Who history along side the newest, and best person to play the Master?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Whole buncha people
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
But how? I mean I loved him as The Master, but.. how?
Well we know he escaped somehow.
Maybe Missy broke him out. Wrap your head around that one.
I feel like expecting a bunch of extra Doctors to pop in as well is setting yourself up for disappointment really.
We'll get two Masters, and we'll at least get Delgado in some way. There's no way to do a multi-Master special without paying tribute to him. Probably some reused old footage for a new scene.
Besides that? Maybe crispy Master, he should be easy to do. Ainley, same as Delgado, although perhaps less essential.
I don't expect Jacobi (just because I don't think he'd do it), and I don't expect Eric Roberts. There are some weird rights isssues with that movie. Same reason why Big Finish couldn't just use the companions from that movie (they used the actors, but had to write new parts for them) and why they couldn't just use the Roberts Master. The only thing they could really use was McGann as the Doctor.
I suspect it'd be too much effort to sort out for something so obscure. I mean, you've got Fox, 20th Century Fox and Universal all involved. I just don't think they'd bother.
I don't see them doing multiple Doctors at the same time as well. Speculation about that quickly starts sounding like people who desperately wanted the 50th special to be more than 'just' Tennant, Smith and a new one.
Two Masters is already pretty big for a season finale. I think that's gonna be it (apart from, like I said, some Name of the Doctor style cameos). And that's fine.
Android18a
Member
If the episode isn't called The Two Masters they're missing a trick.
Me. I *loved* the previous master.
It's never really too late when it comes to Doctor Who. Old Doctors have returned decades after they finished. And, well, they're still bringing stuff from the 60s back even now. Those ancient callbacks have always been a part of the show.
That time when David Tennant met the Fifth Doctor worked fine, even though it was 23 years since Davison left the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXpHuRYjPJw&
All you need is a line or two joking about it, and that's it. Seeing Doctors together like that makes the age discrepancy easy to forgive. And I don't think Eccleston aged that much. The only actors who really look drastically different now compared to when they played the Doctor are Tom and Colin Baker, I think.
The real issue is whether Eccleston would ever want to do it. And for the forseeable future, probably not. He was almost convinced to do Day of the Doctor (there were talks and there are storyboards floating around with him being a bigger part of the story), but he backed out in the end. So I don't see him doing it, but technically it's not an issue at all.
Has Simm been in much recently? I loved him as The Master and in Life on Mars, but those were both a fair bit ago.
Odds are this'll be an episode where the Doctor travels to a point in time before The Master is Missy. Bet we'll see the regeneration too.
Odds are this'll be an episode where the Doctor travels to a point in time before The Master is Missy. Bet we'll see the regeneration too.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
CHICKEN AND CHIPS AND CHEESE
BlackGhost
Banned
Nice
He did a BBC America show called Intruders which bombed, an ITV miniseries and he's now a regular on an American show called The Catch. Also did a Sky show called Mad Dogs which was basically a British TV actors all-stars.
Yes Capaldi is an excellent Doctor.
I think season 8 was pretty good and season 9 only had a few good episodes while others think season 9 was good and season 8 only had a few good episodes but Capaldi is very much worth watching.
There are some really great episodes in Capaldi's seasons. Listen is a top tier episode of Doctor Who and Heaven Sent is one of the best episodes of Doctor Who ever made.
Series 8 was a bit hit and miss but series 9 was one of the best series of the show to date.
Best of all can binge watch!
The Elite
BOSS
I would prefer Eric Roberts or Jacobi but I will take what I can get for a multi-Master story.
Can we have both the Doctor and the Master wearing a hoodie in the same episode?
Do we know that Simm -> Gomez is the correct order? I could see them twisting it and having Gomez regenrate into Jacobi, maybe. Given how the order doesn't *really* matter for the Master
I still hold out hope for Tennant as the Valeyard
I still hold out hope for Tennant as the Valeyard
Baleoce
Member
Yeah this for sure.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Wasnt the first Master to be introduced the very last of his regenerations? Theres 12 other unknown Master incarnations before Delgados version. If you were going to go all out on a multi-Master story you could do one where the reveal is that every character in the story besides the Doctor is The Master.
I liked him as The Master but I like Missy too
Pretty much any incarnation of anyone can show up at any time in this show. River died in her introduction episode.
Vincent Alexander
Member
No no no no no
Please, god...kill off the Master for good so this is our last season. I'm so so tired of recycled villains every damn season.
Please, god...kill off the Master for good so this is our last season. I'm so so tired of recycled villains every damn season.
About the bolded: well technically we don't know.
The first Master we saw was Delgado. We don't know the number of his regeneration. After Delgado died (in real life), they retired the character for a number of years, and when we saw the Master again he was that crispy skeleton, and we were told the Master had run out of regenerations. So that means he had 13 lives, and we had only seen 1 (or 2, depending on whether crispy skeleton was still Delgado or a different regeneration). But we don't known where Delgado was on the timeline. He could have been 1, or 4, or 8, or whatever.
After crispy Master, he basically stole a couple of extra lives - Ainley and Roberts were both stolen bodies, not traditional regenerations.
Presumably, at some point the Master received a new set of regenerations from the Time Lords. As Jacobi, he fled from the Time War and forgot he was actually the Master. When he remembered who he was, he turned into Simm, which was the only traditional Master regeneration we've seen (and that means we've only seen the Master transform from one form into the next twice: crispy skeleton into Ainley and Jacobi into Simm).
We don't know yet how the transformation from Simm to Gomez happened.
So yeah, we've seen 7 bodies: 2 (or, again, 1, depending on your interpretation) from his first set of regenerations, 2 stolen bodies, and 3 from his second set of regenerations. So that means there are at least 11/12 incarnations we've never seen. And we've only seen a direct transformation from one body into the next twice.
So there's definitely a lot of interesting stuff they could do, although I doubt how deep they want to go with that. I've said this earlier, but it's unlikely they'll get Roberts back given rights issues with the movie (and the relative obscurity of that version of the Master), and Delgado and Ainley are both no longer with us, although they'll probably use some archive footage for Delgado at least. But I'm guessing it'll mostly be Simm/Gomez and maybe some weird twisty version of that regeneration - which would be fun to see but not essential, the weird chaotic background of the Master is part of the fun. As opposed to the Doctor, his regenerations don't need to be seen or explained. Although I'm guessing they'll probably do it.
** All this is based on the tv show, not the added stuff in the audio's, comics, books etc. I can't imagine they'll use any of the extra incarnations who weren't part of the tv show.
*** I've mentioned the idea that crispy burned out skeleton Master might be the same as Delgado, and although it's never stated outright on screen, most fans (and I guess writers too) consider them two separate versions. If only because it seems only right to treat Delgado's work as standing on its own.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Ah okay. It was the burned one that had run out of regens. i was thinking Delgado.
No, no, Ecclestone would be the perfect Valeyard.
Richard E Grant would have been the perfect Valeyard really. Exactly what that character should be (and kind of fun in a meta way since he was the 9th Doctor for some online BBC cartoons, before they started the tv version again and made Eccleston the 9th Doctor).
But of course, he already played The Great Intelligence, which was a lot of fun as well. But that's the kind of actor I see as the Valeyard.
The problem is that we already know what the Valeyard looks like:
Based on what we know about the character, there's no reason to assume there are multiple versions of the Valeyard running around. Just that one.
And if they're ever going to tackle the Valeyard on the modern show, narratively it makes sense that he would be Capaldi's problem. After all, he's described as " as an amalgamation of the Doctor's darker sides from between his twelfth and final incarnations.", which means he would be created at any point in the Doctors timeline starting from Matt Smith's regeneration into Capaldi. Which also means it could happen at any point in the future really, since 'final' means nothing in a story that never ends.
I actually don't think we're going to get to the Valeyard this season though, that sounds like a lot. Seems like the finale will concern itself with the Masters, and there is no real link (at this point) between the Master and the Valeyard.
And the real problem with doing the Valeyard is that his entire thing is that he's the evil version of the Doctor. Which is actually what the Master also is. I'm not sure they want to figure out that relatively obscure and already super vague plot again anytime soon, especially while the Master still has such a heavy presence in the show.
Fan fiction time (which will probably never happen on the show): given that Matt Smith was the last incarnation of the original run of Doctors, and the Time Lords were very hesitant to give him another set of regenerations, there must be a reason for them not wanting to give those out unless it was an absolute emergency (like in Smith's last story). There must be a very heavy price attached to it. A big risk of something going wrong. Something like....a creature like the Valeyard being created.
Which sounds like something that would come to bite Capaldi in the ass, but I don't think there are enough episodes left (and it's diving too deep into Who lore) to do that at this point.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm not expecting shit, really.
What ifs aren't my hopes and dreams held tender and true. Just some what ifs. I'm just bullshitting.
Remember, I didn't believe this shit was happening at all before yesterday.
Why not? The Valeyard is the Doctor, and there have been multiple reincarnations of the Doctor. The laws of the Time Lord twist and turn all the time, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they even introduce the Valeyard as a woman.
The Valeyard is not really the Doctor, more of a separate entity. He's not even a Timelord really. He's just this thing, this dark side of the Doctor made flesh.
Of course, yes, rules get bent all the time on this show. But if you make the Valeyard just another Timelord, an evil Doctor who can regenerate and all that, you pretty much just have another Master. That doesn't sound that satisfying to me, and it takes away from what makes the Valeyard unique.
In his story, the Valeyard is definitely presented as something more metaphysical than an actual real person, if that makes any sense. That's where the fun lies.
Edit: Also, if the dark side of the Doctor's soul gets made into its own separate entity and takes the form of a woman, I think that might send out the wrong message, heh. It might be a bit too 'redpill' if all the evil bits inside you turn out to be the feminine parts. But it also wouldn't really match up with what we know about the character.
The Doctor himself turning into a woman would be ace though. Well not Ace but oh fuck it.
Edit Edit: Also, sorry everyone for going so deep into Who lore all the time recently. I should probably just make a Gallifreybase account at this point to bother the people there, but I'm not quite ready for that step yet. I'm quite aware I'm a geek when it comes to this stuff.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I thought Moffat's whole thing about tackling the regeneration limit was so that it would never have to be mentioned again.
Also if we're doing Master can we get Jacobi back please?
Also if we're doing Master can we get Jacobi back please?
That's true. As long as the show is popular and the BBC wants to keep it on the air the Doctor will just keep regenerating.
Don't do that. This reminded me I have any account there that I hadn't logged into since 2013. After reading a few posts I'm reminded why.
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