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A Night Under No Man's Sky — PSX Session (9pst)

Well, we've seen it in action and we've seen the variety in many videos already. We've also been told that they had to look for suitable planets to showcase the game and pointed out that it wasn't easy, suggesting they had to visit many planets to find the right one. He HAS mentioned a simple adjustment can send the whole ecosystem into chaos, so clearly they're still tinkering. I really do believe that the game is close to completion and all they're doing now is tightening the code and perhaps adding more assets to be procedurally generated.

Of course, there could be things we haven't heard of that they're adding, so you could be right if that's the case. BUT I WANT THIS NEXT YEAR DAMN IT.

To be completely honest I hope you are right. I would feel a lot more comfortable if there was marketing for pre-orders (even setting it for Holiday 2015 instead a date). For some reason I equate marketing pre-orders with a confirmed release year.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
To be completely honest I hope you are right. I would feel a lot more comfortable if there was marketing for pre-orders (even setting it for Holiday 2015 instead a date). For some reason I equate marketing pre-orders with a confirmed release year.

I may well spend my entire playing of the game exploring the planet I'm first put on. When you think about the fact you can do that, it's pretty mind blowing.
 
Really? For some reason that message isn't coming across to me. They got some algorithms and concepts completed but if this game is truly massive I would imagine that there are still a lot of things to get done like AI, narratives, servers, etc. (not saying that it is impossible to complete all of this by 2015 but if bugs and problems occur I would rather have them push back the release date than force a release)

Perhaps late 2015 but if there are a lot of AAA games coming out holiday '15 then it might force their hand for a nice Spring '16 release.


Edit: Post 1000 homie.

@E3 2015

Adam Boyes: And about the release date of No Man's Sky, it's available right now.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
One question no one has asked them about yet is about planet ecosystems. I wonder if planets will have variety of environments like water, marsh, forests, deserts etc, or will EACH planet be a water, marsh, forest, desert planet?
 

-Ryn

Banned
Wait...

Planets aren't saved at all? Like... in any way aside from the name?
That's incredibly lame.

One question no one has asked them about yet is about planet ecosystems. I wonder if planets will have variety of environments like water, marsh, forests, deserts etc, or will EACH planet be a water, marsh, forest, desert planet?
I'd imagine there will be some variation in the planets environment. Or at least I'd hope so.
 

-Ryn

Banned
Where did you read that?
This comment

In the PSX interview, Sean said that the actual worlds aren't saved anywhere. The environment "bubble" is generated around you from the seed but as soon as you leave the area, it's gone. Next time you or somebody else comes to the same place, it's just generated again from scratch. You can name things you find but that's really only thing that's recorded. But you definitely can hang around in one place forever and find resources or fight robots or animals. You just can't change anything or leave anything to there. This is definitely not a negative thing and encourages the exploration aspect.


Though I just saw Gribbles comment on the same page stating that it actually does save the world data. In which case I am an idiot for not reading the whole page.
 

dalin80

Banned
Wait...

Planets aren't saved at all? Like... in any way aside from the name?
That's incredibly lame.


I'd imagine there will be some variation in the planets environment. Or at least I'd hope so.

The planet doesn't need to be saved as it always exists, you can go to the centre of the galaxy and come back and because the maths that drives the galaxy is the same the planet will be the same. The game wont remember if you have killed an individual animal there but the planet and the species that may live on it will (always unless you drive to extinction) exist.

We have seen different environments on planets. 'Soleth Prime' for instance has been shown with desert and snow areas as well as green plant life on top of the floating islands.
 
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


We can name the animals we discover?

Get ready penis-based names we are going for a ride. Dinosaur with long neck? Oh you'll be first on the list.
 

-Ryn

Banned
The planet doesn't need to be saved as it always exists, you can go to the centre of the galaxy and come back and because the maths that drives the galaxy is the same the planet will be the same. The game wont remember if you have killed an individual animal there but the planet and the species that may live on it will (always unless you drive to extinction) exist.

We have seen different environments on planets. 'Soleth Prime' for instance has been shown with desert and snow areas as well as green plant life on top of the floating islands.
According to the comment I read the planet itself wouldn't be saved and the seed would just regenerate every time you left. Which didn't make any sense to me. If you discovered a desert world and came back to it only to see an ice world then that'd be really dumb. Apparently this isn't the case though.
 

Sushi Nao

Member
I'm so excited for this game. I'm hopeful that there are really complex ecosystems with a lot of small animals to catalogue... I'm feeling like that will be my focus, a sort of futuristic 19th century naturalist. Maybe I could make sketches of all the organisms I encounter!

With no sign of permanent shelters, I'm interested in the 'transient' themes of just you and your ship. It might feel a bit agoraphobic, or lack a sense of comfort. I can picture a solar system feeling like 'home', or one planet in particular, but with warp travel being so expensive I can't really see just warping back whenever to the planet you started on.

I love the Dramatic perspective of the interactions with other entities (the narrative perspective in which you discern temperament and motivations of characters solely based on their visible actions). It helps make aliens feel really alien, and keeps the text dumps down.
 

dalin80

Banned
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


We can name the animals we discover?

Get ready penis-based names we are going for a ride. Dinosaur with long neck? Oh you'll be first on the list.

You CANNOT name planets or animals, when you discover them the game assigns a name and registers you as the discoverer.

According to the comment I read the planet itself wouldn't be saved and the seed would just regenerate every time you left. Which didn't make any sense to me. If you discovered a desert world and came back to it only to see an ice world then that'd be really dumb. Apparently this isn't the case though.

As I said it doesn't need to be saved as the maths that generated it remains constant. It is a procedurally generated galaxy, NOT randomly generated. We have seen planets with different environments on them but it has been made clear that the planet is constant. If you come back to find the environment different it just means you have landed in a different area. It has not yet been confirmed if planets go through seasons even though we know the game takes into account the planets distance from it's sun when generating the environment.
 
You CANNOT name planets or animals, when you discover them the game assigns a name and registers you as the discoverer.



As I said it doesn't need to be saved as the maths that generated it remains constant. It is a procedurally generated galaxy, NOT randomly generated. We have seen planets with different environments on them but it has been made clear that the planet is constant. If you come back to find the environment different it just means you have landed in a different area. It has not yet been confirmed if planets go through seasons even though we know the game takes into account the planets distance from it's sun when generating the environment.

As an example-

318031

It's a shitty example but lets say this Each of the numbers above determines something different-
1st slot-3 Determines the environment-Ice/Desert/Water.
2nd slot-1 Determines the type of plants, or if there are none.
3rd slot-8 Determines if there's any mounds, and how high, let's say 8 means huge mounts.
4th slot-0 determines there is no breathable oxygen.
5th slot-3 is determining the type of animals.
And lastly, 1 means that theres heavy opposition in terms of machines.

Basically this number will always be the same. In terms of resources, animals, and actual landscape, there's probably different strings of codes with varying paramaters. So taking the 2nd slot, '1', there would be a line of code for just that slot, that would determine how many plants, how they look, their size....

These codes would remain static. Maybe a genocide upon a species would alter the code, but the code will remain the same every time.

...it's just a very basic(speculation on my part of how they do their work, but an example on the type of it) look at it.

Minecraft for example, generated seeds(Back, back, baaack in the day atleast) depending on what you named your save game, which would alter the parameters on where you spawned and how it looked. I figure for NMS, they're simply creating various lines of code that determine different things, and keep it static. What parameters and determinations they use for each number and line proceeding it we don't know.
 

-Ryn

Banned
You CANNOT name planets or animals, when you discover them the game assigns a name and registers you as the discoverer.



As I said it doesn't need to be saved as the maths that generated it remains constant. It is a procedurally generated galaxy, NOT randomly generated. We have seen planets with different environments on them but it has been made clear that the planet is constant. If you come back to find the environment different it just means you have landed in a different area. It has not yet been confirmed if planets go through seasons even though we know the game takes into account the planets distance from it's sun when generating the environment.
I remember them saying you can name the planet. As far as I know they haven't said anything about the animals.

I understand how generation and storage works.
According to the quote though (which as I said I found out was false) the worlds would be need to be recreated when you left "area". The world data wouldn't be saved anywhere. This didn't make sense to me which was why I was confused and thought it sounded dumb.

By "maths" do you mean the seed (or are you from the UK)? Not trying to be insulting just clarifying. Procedural generation is still random. It's just more guided than random generation.
 

dalin80

Banned
There isn't really a seed as the generation comes from noise but comparing it to minecrafts seeds is probably the easiest way to see it for many. Sean put up a video of a world generated from just a pure sine wave and you could see how each mound in the ground was a perfect representation of that wave.

Procedural generation is absolutely *not* random. It can be infinite but never random.
 
I remember them saying you can name the planet. As far as I know they haven't said anything about the animals.

I understand how generation and storage works.
According to the quote though (which as I said I found out was false) the worlds would be need to be recreated when you left "area". The world data wouldn't be saved anywhere. This didn't make sense to me which was why I was confused and thought it sounded dumb.

By "maths" do you mean the seed (or are you from the UK)? Not trying to be insulting just clarifying. Procedural generation is still random. It's just more guided than random generation.

By maths in this case, I use that word because Sean has talked about how they use certain formulas and what not to determine factors.

And yeah, it's random, however it's like...each planet will be a seed that Hello Games have generated.
 

-Ryn

Banned
There isn't really a seed as the generation comes from noise but comparing it to minecrafts seeds is probably the easiest way to see it for many. Sean put up a video of a world generated from just a pure sine wave and you could see how each mound in the ground was a perfect representation of that wave.

Procedural generation is absolutely *not* random. It can be infinite but never random.
Procedural generation works based off of a set of "guidelines" to create in this case, various different planets. Minecraft works similarly in that it uses procedural generation to create a seed that creates a random world.

From my understanding of how NMS works, the locations haven't yet been created. Once a player enters the area of that planet a seed is created (which is then uploaded to the servers) and the world starts generating which is why you can actually see the world generate when you get there. Correct me if I'm wrong though as my knowledge on procedural generation is fairly basic.
 
Procedural generation works based off of a set of "guidelines" to create in this case, various different planets. Minecraft works similarly in that it uses procedural generation to create a seed that creates a random world.

From my understanding of how NMS works, the locations haven't yet been created. Once a player enters the area of that planet a seed is created and the world starts generating which is why you can actually see the world generate when you get there. Correct me if I'm wrong though as my knowledge on procedural generation is fairly basic.

I believe Sean has said that they have a program/machine that takes a gif/screenshots of each planet and displays it on a large monitor. So that means that each planet has already been created, and the game will contain the code for that world.

As for the pop in, that's because the game is simply translating that code on the fly and generating the textures associated with that code. In the trailers, when he flies into a planet and he's going fast, and everything popping in, it's probably because the RAM/Graphics Card is being inhabited with the textures and mapping of the area. The pop in will practically go away once you stay in an area long enough, I assume.

(Again, my terminology is shit, and I'm probably speaking out of my ass, but that's how logically I feel it would be done.)
 

-Ryn

Banned
I believe Sean has said that they have a program/machine that takes a gif/screenshots of each planet and displays it on a large monitor. So that means that each planet has already been created, and the game will contain the code for that world.

As for the pop in, that's because the game is simply translating that code on the fly and generating the textures associated with that code. In the trailers, when he flies into a planet and he's going fast, and everything popping in, it's probably because the RAM/Graphics Card is being inhabited with the textures and mapping of the area. The pop in will practically go away once you stay in an area long enough, I assume.

(Again, my terminology is shit, and I'm probably speaking out of my ass, but that's how logically I feel it would be done.)
lol no worries dude your terminology is fine.
This kind of stuff is really interesting to me so discussing it is pretty cool.

By maths in this case, I use that word because Sean has talked about how they use certain formulas and what not to determine factors.

And yeah, it's random, however it's like...each planet will be a seed that Hello Games have generated.
lol I just though maths sounded funny. Wasn't sure if it was just a replacement for seed or just a way to say "formulas and shit". Thanks for clarifying.

Did they say if there was going to be any gas giant type planets?
I don't know if they've actually gone over that but they have mentioned toxic planets so maybe?
 
Procedural generation works based off of a set of "guidelines" to create in this case, various different planets. Minecraft works similarly in that it uses procedural generation to create a seed that creates a random world.

From my understanding of how NMS works, the locations haven't yet been created. Once a player enters the area of that planet a seed is created (which is then uploaded to the servers) and the world starts generating which is why you can actually see the world generate when you get there. Correct me if I'm wrong though as my knowledge on procedural generation is fairly basic.
Consider coming up with a mathematical function, and then drawing a graph of it. Usually you just draw something close to the origin, like in the interval x=[-10, 10]. But you also know that if you wanted to know what lies around x=10546, you would be able to evaluate the function at that region and see what the result is.

NMS will work the same way. You always have a function defining each planet in every system at all times. But you will only have to know what the planet in your vicinity looks like. When you move around, the game will evaluate the function and show you what the result looks like at your position. You will not influence the way that the planet is generated in any way, it would be exactly the same planet if someone else came to it first. The only thing that seems to be uploaded to servers is the name of the person who arrived at a planet first.
 
logo.gif

?!

That's a tesseract, or at least some type of 4th dimensional being/higher dimensional being.

Look at the seems, and how they are coming apart, and how you can only see the "inside" from one side, while the other has nothing there.
 

Philippo

Member
So what was so special about this presentation? I guess no Morpheus support in the end?

Also, can't wait to be a galactic convoy robber.
 
Have really fond memories of the last time I saw these guys (65dos). They finished the set (prior to the encore) with the epic Tiger Girl as well. 10 minutes of epic euphoric techno. Can't wait for the soundtrack!

Other post-rock bands well worth checking out (most have already had a mention in here):

  • This Will Destroy You
  • Caspian
  • And So I Watch You From Afar
  • Explosions in the Sky
  • Sigur Ros
  • Mogwai
  • Maybeshewill
  • The American Dollar
  • Saxon Shore
  • Godspeed You! Black Emperor
  • sleepmakeswaves
  • MONO

It's a pretty huge "genre" as such though, there are so many good bands out there.
 

-Ryn

Banned
Consider coming up with a mathematical function, and then drawing a graph of it. Usually you just draw something close to the origin, like in the interval x=[-10, 10]. But you also know that if you wanted to know what lies around x=10546, you would be able to evaluate the function at that region and see what the result is.

NMS will work the same way. You always have a function defining each planet in every system at all times. But you will only have to know what the planet in your vicinity looks like. When you move around, the game will evaluate the function and show you what the result looks like at your position. You will not influence the way that the planet is generated in any way, it would be exactly the same planet if someone else came to it first. The only thing that seems to be uploaded to servers is the name of the person who arrived at a planet first.
Thanks for the explanation dude. I'm really curious as to how much the player can affect the worlds. Maybe one say we'll get building. One day... Anyway I also wonder how much the player uploads of the planet. Possibly just the name like you said.
Is that Nemo's weird cousin?

So what was so special about this presentation? I guess no Morpheus support in the end?

Also, can't wait to be a galactic convoy robber.
What makes you think there won't be Morpheus support?
 

-Ryn

Banned
Oh no i still think it's going to be there, i just expected it to be the "super special" thing about NMS during PSX.
Yeah that would've been cool.
Seriously not having VR support would be such a missed opportunity with this game. You could probably sell the headset bundled with it.
 

Insomnium

Member
Have really fond memories of the last time I saw these guys (65dos). They finished the set (prior to the encore) with the epic Tiger Girl as well. 10 minutes of epic euphoric techno. Can't wait for the soundtrack!

Other post-rock bands well worth checking out (most have already had a mention in here):

  • This Will Destroy You
  • Caspian
  • And So I Watch You From Afar
  • Explosions in the Sky
  • Sigur Ros
  • Mogwai
  • Maybeshewill
  • The American Dollar
  • Saxon Shore
  • Godspeed You! Black Emperor
  • sleepmakeswaves
  • MONO

It's a pretty huge "genre" as such though, there are so many good bands out there.

I would like to add *shels to that list, Plains of the Purple Buffalo got me into the genre and now i'm a believer!
 
Anyway I also wonder how much the player uploads of the planet. Possibly just the name like you said.

I can't remember if it's in the latest 30 minute interview with Murray but I remember him saying that every planet has a "latin" name, generated by the game, but the player can also give it a second, custom name (whatever you want) so both names will be visible on the galaxy map. Something like "Gliese 581 - Planet DickBalls".

That's a tesseract, or at least some type of 4th dimensional being/higher dimensional being.

Look at the seems, and how they are coming apart, and how you can only see the "inside" from one side, while the other has nothing there.

They call this thing the Atlas, and it's apparently important in the lore of the game.
 

orava

Member
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


We can name the animals we discover?

Get ready penis-based names we are going for a ride. Dinosaur with long neck? Oh you'll be first on the list.

You can, but it also have a generated(?) "latin name"

If you encounter a dinosaur and decide to name it "Awesomesaurus," every subsequent explorer will know that you discovered and named it first. Incidentally, each animal and plant gets a "Latin name," which is displayed much more prominently than the player-designated name, "because we know that you're going to call it 'Penis Monster' or whatever," says Murray. "We just don't want the whole universe to become filled with penis monsters."
 

orava

Member
Holy shit, can you imagine this game + Oculus or Morpheus? I would legit never leave my condo again. o_O

Yes i can and it probably happens but i can see myself getting bored after few hours of gaming. But in small doses, it's going to be fun. This game is not designed for people who like building contraptions and spaceships in kerbal space program or minecraft. Sure there are some similarities but the gameplay mechanics are very different.
 
Holy shit, can you imagine this game + Oculus or Morpheus? I would legit never leave my condo again. o_O

The concept is ideal for VR and we've seen Morpheus headsets in Hello Games' office before, so they're definitely working with it.

However, I think a lot of people will be somewhat disappointed by the VR experience of this game, especially if it ends up looking pretty much exactly like it does in the latest trailers. Of course, there's probably about a year's worth of development left in there, so it might end up looking differently. I'm mainly talking about the scale, graphical artifacts and the obvious pop-in due to the continuous procedural generation.

Even though it looks like a visually gorgeous game, it's got technically very last gen graphics and detail. On top of that, their procedural terrain and rendering system obviously shows a semi-flat shaded polygon style with a lot of garbage triangles that are most apparent on low LOD objects but are in fact everywhere. I'm convinced that when the game comes out, a lot of people with bash this game heavily on the graphics side of things alone, calling out the pop-in, low texture resolution, garbled polygons, low-poly terrain and objects etc. That is one of the reasons this kind of project hasn't been done by a larger developer/publisher. Even though the general tech has been there for a long time, putting it together into a good looking, tightly packed game is a tough job, with perfect terrain and objects streaming etc. But nevertheless, this industry need this game, or any other that can successfully pull off even the barebones of this "dream game" concept. I'm completely fine with that, can't wait. I'm just saying that even though Hello Games have a ways to go in development of NMS, don't get your hopes up too high about the pop-in or anything like that. If they make it better, great, but I'm doubtful.

Now, add that to the sense of scale they've shown. There will probably be "planet sized planets" and all that. I'm talking about how these planets look cramped and small while flying through the air. They really aren't that small, but I guess it's a combination of FOV and very low-poly terrain. That scene in the latest trailers where the ship is flying over a desert planet, you can see little creatures running away as the ship flies over. The creatures look extremely tiny compared to the environment and the sense of scale of your ship. But once the player gets off the ship, you can clearly see that those tiny creatures are actually player sized.

I may be completely off the mark with this, but it feels like this will look very off in VR. People have been commenting for a while how Skyrim looks cramped and that those mountains aren't that big at all, because they really aren't. And NMS right now looks at least just as cramped as Skyrim. So on that note, No Man's Sky is conceptually ideal for VR, but I'm not so sure on the technical side, I hope I'm wrong though.
 

-Ryn

Banned
I can't remember if it's in the latest 30 minute interview with Murray but I remember him saying that every planet has a "latin" name, generated by the game, but the player can also give it a second, custom name (whatever you want) so both names will be visible on the galaxy map. Something like "Gliese 581 - Planet DickBalls".
Well that sounds pretty cool.
Especially the DickBalls part.
 
I may be completely off the mark with this, but it feels like this will look very off in VR. People have been commenting for a while how Skyrim looks cramped and that those mountains aren't that big at all, because they really aren't. And NMS right now looks at least just as cramped as Skyrim. So on that note, No Man's Sky is conceptually ideal for VR, but I'm not so sure on the technical side, I hope I'm wrong though.

I don't know for certain but wouldn't the whole universe be formulated like ours in true dimensions, like a box being 30x30x30, then our view is another calculation on top of that. So for the game our view calculation could change depending if we are seeing it on screen or with Morpheus.
 
You can, but it also have a generated(?) "latin name"

I hope there's a setting to have to have the player name appear under the latin name. Because I want to see a bunch of penis monster name derivatives.


Coincidentally Amazon Prime has a BUNCH of 65daysofstatic free for streaming, been listening to them while studying.
 

todahawk

Member
Have really fond memories of the last time I saw these guys (65dos). They finished the set (prior to the encore) with the epic Tiger Girl as well. 10 minutes of epic euphoric techno. Can't wait for the soundtrack!

Other post-rock bands well worth checking out (most have already had a mention in here):

  • This Will Destroy You
  • Caspian
  • And So I Watch You From Afar
  • Explosions in the Sky
  • Sigur Ros
  • Mogwai
  • Maybeshewill
  • The American Dollar
  • Saxon Shore
  • Godspeed You! Black Emperor
  • sleepmakeswaves
  • MONO

It's a pretty huge "genre" as such though, there are so many good bands out there.

First post-rock I stumbled across was I Am David Sparkle, their first album, This is the New is my fav and my fav track is Jaded Afghan. linky to their bandcamp for anyone interested.
great list btw, thanks for sharing!
 
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