Support NeoGAF

[bengraven]

I read all the preview chapters, so when I found some scans I decided to re-read the chapters and was shocked to find a ton of changes and fattening. It's kind of fascinating. Some changes like (prologue and second Jon spoiler)

Spoiler

Prologue: Varamyr's backstory was more fleshed out...original was only like 3 pages long. This is something like 12-13. Also, the preview ended with the wildling girl returning to him, opening the tent and he realizes she's an Other. There's a lot more action in the end this time and Varymyr survives in the mind of the wolf. Also, I said the Jon thing before, that instead of hanging Janos, he has a second thought and re-enacts his father's death with one of the few surviving men who helped contribute to Ned's death. With Joff dead and Ilyn just doingn what his king said, Janos is the one left that needed to die and it was poetic.

I want Tuesday here so badly. Or more appropriately Monday night.

To be fair, Ran is trying his hardest to make sure spoilers don't get on the board; just a few days ago they got bombed by some new poster throwing spoilers everywhere. Is any ADWD discussion allowed until the 12th?

It's been a few days since I checked, but wasn't the Dance section closed? And now all posts on the boards have to be approved by admins. Which is a great spoiler policy, despite being hard on the mods and admins.

 

[Emerson]

To be fair, Ran is trying his hardest to make sure spoilers don't get on the board; just a few days ago they got bombed by some new poster throwing spoilers everywhere. Is any ADWD discussion allowed until the 12th?

I like Ran a lot. It's just the regular members I have a problem with.

 

[Puddles]

I really don't think this qualifies as a spoiler, but I'm sure you guys will be happy to know that fan-favorite and Wall MVP

Spoiler

Dolorous Edd

is given a lot more screen-time in ADWD.

 

[Last Hearth]

How does one post spoilers?

 

[IAmtheFMan]

How does one post spoilers?

[spoiler#] SPOILER TEXT [/spoiler#] without the #sign.

I think this is the most hyped I've ever been for a book. Nobody better pull a fucking "Snape kills Dumbeldore" on this. This one's for real.

 

[methodman]

[ spoiler ]

spoiler here

[/ spoiler ]


with no spaces. make sure to preview your post before posting

 

[bengraven]

[spoiler#] SPOILER TEXT [/spoiler#] without the #sign.

I think this is the most hyped I've ever been for a book. Nobody better pull a fucking "Snape kills Dumbeldore" on this. This one's for real.

I'm glad I never got the 6th and 7th books spoiled.

I picked up #7 at midnight at my local chain grocery store where the majority of people in line were either high school or college kids and no one screamed out spoilers. I then worked that weekend, two 12 hour days where I was in charge of 30-40 college kids at a time in a call center and no one spoiled it for me.

I got lucky.

That said, at least 1/4 of us were actually reading the book at our desks all weekend and there was one guy who was so humored/disgusted by the nerdiness that he started spitting out fake spoilers to try and upset us like "Snape kills Hermione" and "Harry dies". I realized we were over-staffed a few hours into the first day and told him he was chosen to be the lucky first person to go home that day. He was happy and you could almost hear a sigh of relief over the entire call center floor, including my OWN boss, who was sitting in her PJs at her desk reading the book as well. lol

 

[Last Hearth]

Okay, part way through ADWD, and this is not really much of a spoiler at all but just a friendly suggestion to all who are going to read the book.

Spoiler

If you have not read the Dunk and Egg stories, do it before you read ADWD. I thought they were just optional side stories, but they actually tie quite a bit into the main plot.

 

[Basileus777]

Okay, part way through ADWD, and this is not really much of a spoiler at all but just a friendly suggestion to all who are going to read the book.

Spoiler

If you have not read the Dunk and Egg stories, do it before you read ADWD. I thought they were just optional side stories, but they actually tie quite a bit into the main plot.

Real ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

The three eyed crow's identity as Blood Raven isn't crucial to the plot in the book. It's basically bonus material/fan service if you know it. The Dunk and Egg stuff are still side-stories. There was actually another Dunk reference, some tall knight spoken about that I can't recall the details of.

 

[Last Hearth]

Spoiler

The three eyed crow's identity as Blood Raven isn't crucial to the plot in the book. It's basically bonus material/fan service if you know it. The Dunk and Egg stuff are still side-stories. There was actually another Dunk reference, some tall knight spoken about that I can't recall the details of.

Okay, now we're dealing with real spoilers.

Spoiler

Well I disagree, the identity of the 3-eyed crow is one of the central mysteries of the series that began early in book 1. And the significance of his identity is not really apparent to the reader without reading those novellas. Furthermore, the identity and motive of the Golden Company is also not as clear without those novellas. I would consider them required reading for a full comprehension of what's really going on.

 

[Basileus777]

Okay, now we're dealing with real spoilers.

Spoiler

Well I disagree, the identity of the 3-eyed crow is one of the central mysteries of the series that began early in book 1. And the significance of his identity is not really apparent to the reader without reading those novellas. Furthermore, the identity and motive of the Golden Company is also not as clear without those novellas. I would consider them required reading for a full comprehension of what's really going on.

ADWD Spoilers.

Spoiler

You have a point, but the identity itself isn't a plot point, not in ADWD at least. Not knowing who Brynden Rivers is doesn't make Bran's plot arch harder to understand or anything. None of the current members of the Golden Company seem to have any connection to Bittersteel or the Blackyfyres, ADWD and AFFC do a good enough job of conveying that they are exiles who want to return home.

 

[bengraven]

Review from Adam Whitehead, one of the series' most respected gatekeepers
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2011/07/dance-with-dragons-by-george-rr-martin.html

It's the most detailed review, and while there are no specific spoilers there's lots of talk about the flow of the book, which some might find spoilery (although saying the ending is climatic shouldn't be a spoiler to most readers).

This review especially puts to rest any notion the book is more AFFC-like. Battles, major twists, and huge shocks are in store for readers.

Interesting and hyped after reading this review, even more so.

So GRRM finally explains

Spoiler

the Doom of Valyria and apparently in detail

and

Spoiler

another mystery that started at the beginning of the series, but "not the one you're thinking of" which I'm assuming means we still won't know who Jon's mother is.

Can't wait to read my first spoiler, because apparently it's pretty creepy.

 

[Basileus777]

Interesting and hyped after reading this review, even more so.

So GRRM finally explains

Spoiler

the Doom of Valyria and apparently in detail

and

Spoiler

another mystery that started at the beginning of the series, but "not the one you're thinking of" which I'm assuming means we still won't know who Jon's mother is.

Spoiler

How the Doom destroyed Valyria is explained, not the cause of it or why it happened. So still plenty of mystery left there. Jon's mother is given more hints, it's not outright stated, but it's not much of a mystery anymore. Hell, AGOT basically gave it away.

 

[Nesotenso]

Can anyone refresh my memory about the naming conventions for bastards in Westeros ? What about the Targaryen bastards ?

 

[Basileus777]

Can anyone refresh my memory about the naming conventions for bastards in Westeros ? What about the Targaryen bastards ?

Flowers is the bastard name in the Reach
Hill is the bastard name for the westerlands
Rivers is the bastard name in the riverlands
Pyke is the bastard name on the Iron Islands
Sand is the bastard name of Dorne
Snow is the surname for bastards north of the Neck, generally referred to as the North
Stone is the bastard name in the Vale
Storm is the bastard name in the stormlands
Waters is the bastard name of Dragonstone and the Crownlands

Targ bastards in general don't have a special name, but one man and his descendants took the name Blackfyre (after the sword).

 

[bengraven]

Spoiler

How the Doom destroyed Valyria is explained, not the cause of it or why it happened. So still plenty of mystery left there. Jon's mother is given more hints, it's not outright stated, but it's not much of a mystery anymore. Hell, AGOT basically gave it away.

First is somewhat disappointing, though I'm glad we get a bit more of that history cleared up period. Until Feast, we had zero on that historic region, until the Kindly Man explained

Spoiler

the rise of the Faceless men in Valyria

.

The second thing though, it's interesting that you make it seem like the fan theories are correct, while the review makes it seem like the theories are completely wrong.

 

[Basileus777]

First is somewhat disappointing, though I'm glad we get a bit more of that history cleared up period.

The second thing though, it's interesting that you make it seem like the fan theories are correct, while the review makes it seem like the theories are completely wrong.

To be more specific on the second thing.
ADWD Spoilers.

Spoiler

We seen a sort of flashback scene where Ned is praying to the Godswood that (paraphrased) "they love each other as brothers." Barristan Selmy later recalls how Ned dishonored Ashara Dayne and had a stillborn child. That's all we really get.

Several fan theories are proven right or given a bunch more evidence to back them up.

 

[Last Hearth]

For those who have read the 4th Bran chapter in ADWD, I'd like to discuss some stuff here.

Spoiler

Was the Lyanna and Benjen that Bran saw? Or Lyanna and Ned?
Also, is the last thing he saw the future or the past? Could the white haired woman be Dany, and her sickle an arakh?

 

[Basileus777]

For those who have read the 4th Bran chapter in ADWD, I'd like to discuss some stuff here.

Spoiler

Was the Lyanna and Benjen that Bran saw? Or Lyanna and Ned?
Also, is the last thing he saw the future or the past? Could the white haired woman be Dany, and her sickle an arakh?

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

The girl is said to be older, so I think that would mean Benjen. The boy has long hair, did Benjen have long hair? I think the girl kissing the tall Knight is from the upcoming Dunk and Egg novel. I'm not sure who the white haired women is, but can't Bran only see the past? As things progress, Bran sees the forest shrink and faces from the Winterfell crypt, so I think it was something ancient, maybe someone from the first war with the others.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Another more specific review:
http://io9.com/5819035/

No spoilers but lots of detailed talk on the general themes and atmosphere of the book. Includes some brief excerpts

one kinda spoiler thing I guess, in terms of a location:

Spoiler

Winterfell makes an appearance

 

[ZephyrFate]

Another more specific review:
http://io9.com/5819035/

No spoilers but lots of detailed talk on the general themes and atmosphere of the book. Includes some brief excerpts

one kinda spoiler thing I guess, in terms of a location:

Spoiler

Winterfell makes an appearance

holy crap, if AFFC set a trend of these books getting darker, and ADWD is already twisted enough, I cannot IMAGINE what The Winds of Winter will be like.

Holy.

Fucking.

SHIT.

 

[Last Hearth]

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

The girl is said to be older, so I think that would mean Benjen. The boy has long hair, did Benjen have long hair? I think the girl kissing the tall Knight is from the upcoming Dunk and Egg novel. I'm not sure who the white haired women is, but can't Bran only see the past? As things progress, Bran sees the forest shrink and faces from the Winterfell crypt, so I think it was something ancient, maybe someone from the first war with the others.

Spoiler

No one specifically says that it can only be the past, and the white hair and the sickle made me think of Dany.

 

[Basileus777]

Spoiler

No one specifically says that it can only be the past, and the white hair and the sickle made me think of Dany.

ADWD Spoilers.

Spoiler

As Bran is seeing things, he goes further and further into the past. I think that suggests the white hair woman is ancient.

 

[Last Hearth]

holy crap, if AFFC set a trend of these books getting darker, and ADWD is already twisted enough, I cannot IMAGINE what The Winds of Winter will be like.

Holy.

Fucking.

SHIT.

I won't give away anything except to say that Martin's descriptive writings in this book so far are amazing. I live in an area of the US where it's been 95+ everyday for the last month. And I felt like wrapping myself in a blanket while reading some of the chapters where the characters have to deal with the cold weather and the snow.

 

[Last Hearth]

ADWD Spoilers.

Spoiler

As Bran is seeing things, he goes further and further into the past. I think that suggests the white hair woman is ancient.

Spoiler

Yes, but I'm thinking he goes so far back he goes full circle into the future (like beyond when the weirwood tree was born, and started seeing things just before it dies in the future), also that scene is supposed to be significant somehow and I can't see how ancient event has anything to do with what's happening.

 

[elrechazado]

dammit where did you all get the book already

 

[ezrarh]

There's a leak out but it's only up to page 604 from what I could find which is mega blue balls for whoever's been reading it.

 

[Basileus777]

Spoiler

Yes, but I'm thinking he goes so far back he goes full circle into the future (like beyond when the weirwood tree was born, and started seeing things just before it dies in the future), also that scene is supposed to be significant somehow and I can't see how ancient event has anything to do with what's happening.

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

Something related to Azor Azhai would be relevant to what's happening. Though I don't know how that would be connected to the white-haired woman and her captive. But maybe you're right, we don't really have much information to go on with this. The bronze sickle seems significant though.

 

[bengraven]

To be more specific on the second thing.
ADWD Spoilers.

Spoiler

We seen a sort of flashback scene where Ned is praying to the Godswood that (paraphrased) "they love each other as brothers." Barristan Selmy later recalls how Ned dishonored Ashara Dayne and had a stillborn child. That's all we really get.

Several fan theories are proven right or given a bunch more evidence to back them up.

That was my theory!

Spoiler

That Ned in fact had a child with Ashara Dayne and either switched it with Jon or the baby WAS Jon.

Noice.

There's a leak out but it's only up to page 604 from what I could find which is mega blue balls for whoever's been reading it.

If you read a couple of chapters a night you are basically just getting a "beta test" for next Tuesday. Read it slowly and then start up at that point in Dance when it arrives.

I'm kind of doing that, I'm really going slow.

 

[Basileus777]

That was my theory!

Spoiler

That Ned in fact had a child with Ashara Dayne and either switched it with Jon or the baby WAS Jon.

Noice.

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

I'm not sure if that works timeline wise. Apparently the stillborn child was conceived at Harrenhal. I think Jon is too young for that to work.

 

[bengraven]

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

I'm not sure if that works timeline wise. Apparently the stillborn child was conceived at Harrenhal. I think Jon is too young for that to work.

That basically proves the most prominent theory then, and also helps that person get a backstory to cover up the truth. Also makes a paragraph in the first

Spoiler

Cat

of GOT much more interesting.

Spoiler

Would explain why Ned wants the rumors in Winterfell squashed about Dayne being the mom of Jon: though it helps him protect Jon by the rumor existing, it hurts him too much to have it talked about. Same with the Ned chapter with Robert on the King's Road.

Edit: all right, not reading more spoilers on this though. lol I'm only on page 100.

Oh and I can see how this, the Jon thing I spoilered earlier and the first Tyrion chapter tie together with Game of Thrones as the reviewer said. In the first Tyrion chapter we see some more into what was in Viserys' head:

Spoiler

Everyone wanted to fuck Dany bad...Illyrio had to distract himself from her and he had to put guards on her room to prevent Viserys from fucking her every night. Even after she was engaged to Khal, Vis thought that if he can't marry her, he should be the one to take her maidenhead since he desired her so much.

Part made me lol.

 

[PhoenixDark]

speculation based on Werthead's review. He mentions Martin expands his battle scene experience with one that harkens to Napoleon's Russian invasion. Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia

I'm assuming this battle occurs in the north because Wert mentions the writing perfectly describes a deathly cold environment. The only major battle I can think of that would meet that criteria is Stannis Baratheon's host battling the Bolton's - perhaps seen from Theon's perspective. I've been re-reading AFFC and just got to a point where Jaime mentions Lord Bolton's host is stuck at The Neck, cut off from the north by Moat Cailin (held by Ironmen); Cersei mentions Bolton's bastard is on his way to siege it and free his father. After that, perhaps Stannis moves against one of their armies. But who wins? I think Stannis is doomed now that Melisandre is focused on Jon, but it might depend on who has the most support from the north. If Stannis can win some support, he could have the supplies to last through the winter long enough to break a Bolton force.

Or maybe the son turns against the father, or vice versa. Bolton suggested he might get rid of his bastard once his wife gave him a son.

specific spoiler about an ADWD chapter released last year that relates to this:

Spoiler

In Asha's first POV she mentions the Ironmen lost Moat Cailin, so the Bolton's should be marching through the north with only Stannis in their way, should he attack.

Also, Theon's first POV kinda suggests Ramsay might battle his father, which could lead to a Stannis victory later

can't wait to re-read this post in a couple weeks and see how wrong or right I am lol

 

[Fjordson]

Another more specific review:
http://io9.com/5819035/

No spoilers but lots of detailed talk on the general themes and atmosphere of the book. Includes some brief excerpts

one kinda spoiler thing I guess, in terms of a location:

Spoiler

Winterfell makes an appearance

Oh my god. Fuck this weekend. I need it to be Tuesday!

holy crap, if AFFC set a trend of these books getting darker, and ADWD is already twisted enough, I cannot IMAGINE what The Winds of Winter will be like.

Holy.

Fucking.

SHIT.

 

[ezrarh]

holy crap, if AFFC set a trend of these books getting darker, and ADWD is already twisted enough, I cannot IMAGINE what The Winds of Winter will be like.

Holy.

Fucking.

SHIT.

I made the foolish mistake of comparing ASOS to The Empire Strikes Back to a Star Wars friend, in that it must get worse before it gets better. That was silly of me.

 

[Puddles]

Davos chapters in ADWD

Spoiler

are like watching a dog get kicked down a flight of stairs. Then dragged by the collar to the top again so the process can be repeated.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Can't wait till Tuesday, sorry guys.

If anyone has the hookup to the scans, plz message me.

Thx.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Catelyn: Robb, I have a bad feeling about this. Walder Frey is vengeful and treacherous.

Robb: SHUT UP YOU'RE NOT MY BOSS ANY MORE

Grey Wind growls and snarls at every Frey

Robb: SHUT UP DOG WHAT DO YOU KNOW IT'S GONNA BE AWESOME HERE

This was great. but man I should not get on GAF when I'm hammered.

 

[JerkShep]

ADWD spoilers.

Spoiler

The girl is said to be older, so I think that would mean Benjen. The boy has long hair, did Benjen have long hair? I think the girl kissing the tall Knight is from the upcoming Dunk and Egg novel. I'm not sure who the white haired women is, but can't Bran only see the past? As things progress, Bran sees the forest shrink and faces from the Winterfell crypt, so I think it was something ancient, maybe someone from the first war with the others.

ADWD Spoiler

Spoiler

I agree with Lyanna/Benjen and something Dunk and Egg related. If the last scene is in the past, maybe the white haired woman is Alysanne Targaryen? She was already mentioned before in a Bran chapter regarding the New Gift, but I could be mistaken.
There's another scene with a pregnant woman asking for revenge in front of the tree. Any ideas about that?

 

[Levi]

Google has failed me, so if I could get a pm, I'd appreciate it.

My Kindle version is preordered, I'm just impatient.

 

[Brera]

Just finished the audio book for ASOS.

Fuck me!

 

[yacobod]

i hope in winds of winter zombie Robb gets resurrected with Greywind's head attached to him.

 

[Puddles]

So it looks like there's an AFFC situation in ADWD going on with

Spoiler

Melisandre's visions of a girl who she thinks is Arya. We know Arya is in Braavos. We know that her visions are wrong. We know that whatever Jon agrees to do will have nothing to do with his sister. It's Brienne's search for Sansa all over again.

 

[Puddles]

Also, at this point I can't picture Roose Bolton as anyone but Alan Rickman. HBO needs to make this happen.

 

[KingK]

Also, at this point I can't picture Roose Bolton as anyone but Alan Rickman. HBO needs to make this happen.

That's who I've pictured him as since book 2.

 

[Pkaz01]

So it looks like there's an AFFC situation in ADWD going on with

Spoiler

Melisandre's visions of a girl who she thinks is Arya. We know Arya is in Braavos. We know that her visions are wrong. We know that whatever Jon agrees to do will have nothing to do with his sister. It's Brienne's search for Sansa all over again.

My interpretation of the subject of your spoiler -

Spoiler

At first I thought her vision was going to be jeyne pool if she ever escaped from Ramsay but I don't know GRRM is to unpredictable for that so I am ready for it to be Sansa or even Arya. Mel has no idea who the girl is and no idea when it will happen so it can happen whenever. I don't think her visions are wrong, I just think she isn't very good at interpreting and controlling them.

 

[bengraven]

For those of you who were bored of Bran chapters in earlier books, the second Bran chapter is fucking awesome.

Fuck. Ing. Awesome.

A few points make you bite your knuckle and go "fuuuck, someone's not getting out of this unscathed".


And a huge mystery from book 1 is revealed:

Spoiler

you see your first Child of the Forest

 

[KingK]

For those of you who were bored of Bran chapters in earlier books, the second Bran chapter is fucking awesome.

Fuck. Ing. Awesome.

A few points make you bite your knuckle and go "fuuuck, someone's not getting out of this unscathed".

Bran is one of my favorite characters actually, so this is good news to me

 

[bengraven]

Bran is one of my favorite characters actually, so this is good news to me

You're going to be happy.

 

[Emerson]

I've only read like 5 or 6 chapters of ADWD and I'm already dreading the wait until The Howlands of Winter. That book is clearly gonna be ridiculously good.

 

[Nesotenso]

So it looks like there's an AFFC situation in ADWD going on with

Spoiler

Melisandre's visions of a girl who she thinks is Arya. We know Arya is in Braavos. We know that her visions are wrong. We know that whatever Jon agrees to do will have nothing to do with his sister. It's Brienne's search for Sansa all over again.

ADWD spoilers

Spoiler

The girl turns out to be Alys Karstark. Melony is not that evil as we were led to believe. Her visions are true but she is prone to misinterpretation