Sony won't enforce shit.
The same way they don't do shit when a game releases with terrible performance or bugs.
They even promote some of those games on ps+.
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All PS4 Pro enhanced games (native support and boosted)
- Thread starter Liabe Brave
- Start date
Sony won't enforce shit.
The same way they don't do shit when a game releases with terrible performance or bugs.
They even promote some of those games on ps+.
It's a worrying development, that more and more games just ignore the Pro, or if they don't, don't feature downsampling. (Correct me if I wrong, but there was never a proper explanation given why downsampling isn't always possible.)
I'm really looking forward to Injustice 2. It's out in two weeks, but they stay completely silent on Pro optimization even though people have asked them about it (including me)... Makes me worry, that they are going to ignore the Pro too. :/
On the bright side, the release of Scorpio this year might end the wishy-washy Pro optimization policy too. Developers can't ignore both consoles or just one of them and as far as I understand it, Microsft made full Scorpio optimization mandatory for every new game.
I'm really looking forward to Injustice 2. It's out in two weeks, but they stay completely silent on Pro optimization even though people have asked them about it (including me)... Makes me worry, that they are going to ignore the Pro too. :/
On the bright side, the release of Scorpio this year might end the wishy-washy Pro optimization policy too. Developers can't ignore both consoles or just one of them and as far as I understand it, Microsft made full Scorpio optimization mandatory for every new game.
Actually they don't.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Really LTTP but here's some FFXV screens from my Pro running in High mode. Down-scaled to 1080p via PS4's capture app.
Doesn't Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 have Pro support? Pretty sure they said they were doing it. It has HDR on both.
What Remains of Edith Finch improves the frame rate on PRO.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
MaximusPayne
Member
Did I read somewhere were Microsoft's team was responsible for Scorpio support in-house. Doesn't Sony leave it to the developers?
My understanding of "mandatory support" for games is simply that the games will support the Pro hardware in that they'll work natively on the Pro. It's essentially a different console to the standard PS4 with different hardware and as a tiny minority of games have shown us, there can be issues if the developers don't take the change in hardware into account in relation to their title.
All games released now do have to work natively on the Pro even though it's not mandated that the developer has to include any improvements over the version that people will be playing on the standard PS4.
All games released now do have to work natively on the Pro even though it's not mandated that the developer has to include any improvements over the version that people will be playing on the standard PS4.
I've been telling people that mandatory support wasn't a thing since before the Pro even came out, and every time people would tell me I was wrong. It still happens even when we have proof now.
Developers don't have to program their games to run on the Pro if they're just making a normal PS4 title, Pro just runs normal PS4 games. So the "mandatory support" isn't from that.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
I always believed you.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
To be fair though, we've only had.. what .. 2 or 3 retail releases since Pro's launch which have no Pro support on launch. Maybe a few more smaller scale PSN games.
It may not be mandatory but it's not like developers are ignoring it either.
Of course. Most developers will support the pro, it just makes sense. But the belief has been they "have to." As in "they can't release if they don't."
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
True. Worst case scenario, it would have been terrible if indies etc stopped making games because they don't have extra resources for Pro support.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
According to the tweets, they kept dodging that answer and only confirmed HDR support as if it is a PRO only support while it is for both.
I knew someone would say that. Do you really think, keeping same resolution, same low quality shadows, same explicit popus and slow assets' streaming can be considered a real PS4 PRO support? Having slightly stable framerates (still jittery though and not completely stable) can be considered with the line or a result of Boost Mode rather than an intentional intervention from the devs to natively support the PS4 PRO (eventhough that boost mode does nothing here while FPS is a litle increased, something I bet the boost mode would have been able to do automatically without manual intervention).
This is really a shame especially when the game was first supposed to be a PS4 exclusive made by the talented devs of The Unfinished Swan and publsihed by SSM which may have resulted in a better support for both PS4 platforms.
I expect that too especially when FF15 devs said that they will makea more dedicated PS4 Pro support with more graphical features when they are done finishing the DLCs and game content, mostly referring to a simultaneous release for PC and Scorpio support.
They said in an earlier interview that they definitely were, maybe they'll patch it later if it's not Pro supported yet. I think hdr on the original ps4 is only 8-bit and it's 10-bit hdr on ps4 pro.
I agree that slightly stabilising the fps on a game isn't exactly great Pro support, I'd expect some sort of resolution bump at minimum.
Liabe Brave
Member
No problem at all, and thanks for what you've already contributed!
No, not quite. What you're remembering has to do with Scorpio's support of unpatched games. PS4 Pro's Boost Mode only opens part of the hardware's capabilities, in order to preserve the function of games that were programmed only for the standard hardware. This has worked very well, as the list of games broken by Boost Mode is very small (and shrinking, as errors are confirmed to be from other sources).
Microsoft says they're doing this a different way, and opening all of Scorpio's hardware to unpatched games. That should maximize boosts, but it also increases the likelihood of old games running badly or breaking. They've said that, in order to avoid these drawbacks, they're going to tailor the profile of every game, and shut off the parts of Scorpio's hardware that cause problems. This will reduce, or even eliminate, the "boost" benefits, but will ensure issues are gone.
That's what Microsoft has promised they'll do without input from devs. But they haven't said what form it'll take. Will Scorpio just try to guess what it can give games based on some sort of profiler that runs in the background? Will Microsoft create and distribute patches for every single Xbox One game? Neither of those solutions sounds ideal to me, but we just don't know for now.
For official support benefit, such as higher-target resolution, effects, or framerate, Scorpio will require dev-created patches, just like Pro.
Yes, absolutely. Not all standard PS4 games look as good as Horizon; that doesn't mean other devs are incompetent or ripping off customers. This is the exact same situation, where studios' products will exist across a range of technical achievement. You're perfectly allowed to find some games disappointing. But speaking as if only the best should ever be expected is, frankly, foolish or entitled.
Popsickles
Member
I think the only mandate was that games could not run worse or at a lower resolution on Pro to OG Ps4
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Is it still worth getting if I just have a 1080p set?
Lol no.
PS4Pro it's just a mid cycle product without mainstream developers support except for a few graphical and anecdotical upgrades. At this time it's far from a serious product. Just buy the Slim and wait 1-2 years for the PS5. I'm sure that the PS4Pro will not succeed.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Where did I say that devs are incomptent? On the contrary, I praised their work on The Unfinished Swan and their new game seems even more interesting.
I wasn't talking about the graphics on base PS4 or in general like what you claimed. I may play a game with any type of graphics as long as it is interesting and the graphics here are far from being rushed or scamped and there are much efforts in them especially in the different styles in the game.
I was talking about the lack of PS4 PRO support of any kind.
It is exactly the same feeling when someone buys new GPU or PC parts in order to get better results from the same game (better resolution, better textures,shadows,details better FPS etc..), otherwise his new parts are obsolete or that the game doesn't allow it from the start (being a bad port or very old). This is the same case for PS4 PRO, otherwise the choice of purchase would be useless.
It is fine with old games that don't (and won't) support PS4 PRO, but there is still boost mode for most of them but it is kinda feeling weird for the new games especially after what Sony implied with their rule which they should have been more strict about, unless the concerned devs didn't receive PS4 PRO kits yet which is another story.
endlessflood
Member
It'll generally give you better framerate or better image quality at 1080p. So whether it's a yes or no depends on whether frame rate or image quality improvements are worth the purchase price of the PS4 Pro to you. You're the only person who can answer that question.
For me it has been. I was planning on getting a 4k display last year but due to unforseen car repairs that got put on ice for a while. I decided to keep the Pro preorder for when I eventually do upgrade and have been surprised at how much of a visual difference downsampling has made in many titles and it helps performance out in a number of ways. If you really care about image quality, I say go for it. If you just want a way to play exclusives and don't care about playing them in the best quality, get a Slim.
Most of the games that haven't supported it (and weren't older Japanese games localized after the release of the Pro) are from very small studios so it's likely that there may be issues with the devkit supplies or they just plain couldn't support it in time for launch. I imagine that even if there was a loose mandate Sony would be willing to accommodate small teams that support would be a burden on. Something like a major AAA game shipping without it would be shocking.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Most certainly for that reason, especially for indies. VizionEck devs are completely certain that their game would be Native 4K at 60 FPS on PS4 PRO. Yet they are still waiting to get a PRO devkit to support it.
endlessflood
Member
It's one that isn't particularly noticalworthy
LightofRohan
Member
Yes, finally PS4Pro'ed up! Getting it because I will inevitably get a 4ktv soon, so getting the stress of transferring everything over now.
Thanks for this thread OP, it's seriously amazingly helpful.
Thanks for this thread OP, it's seriously amazingly helpful.
No, it's bad use of the word anecdotal/anecdotical.
2blackcats
Member
Lol yup.
PS4Pro is a mid cycle product with plenty of mainstream developer support for graphical and performance upgrades. At this time it's a pretty serious product. Get it instead of the Slim and you'll have it for 3 years until the PS5. I'm sure that the PS4Pro will succeed.
Backfoggen
Banned
Anecdotal upgrades lmao
Stereogatari
Banned
It's too early to judge with the Pro. I think post E3 exclusives will use it properly.
LightofRohan
Member
I played Andromeda, 75 hours, on PS4 regular. So I am pretty accustom to how it looks, now Im on the pro for the first time. It looks a ton sharper, but moving the camera around feels like a very light jitter, not sure if the less sharpness of the vanilla made it not so noticeable or what. But it makes me a wee-bit dizy at times. Is that a known thing or what?
Almost like there is zero motion blur anymore...
Almost like there is zero motion blur anymore...
Liabe Brave
Member
Well, you did say this:
In brief, that seems to mean "The upgrade on Pro isn't good enough to be called 'real' support. Boost Mode could've achieved that, so the dev doesn't seem to have done anything." Tell me if I've misinterpreted, but if that's the claim then it seems very much a criticism of the developer.
Except PS4 Pro support isn't actually missing, you just don't think it's enough. Like I said, I won't argue against that; the hardware is capable of more, so getting underutilized can be disappointing. The problem is when you go from wishing for more, to saying that unless you get more, the creator hasn't "done anything" to give you "real support".
A negative opinion of the product is yours to form, I was responding to what seemed like a negative opinion of the people who made the product. If that wasn't your intent, then I'm sorry for misconstruing, and we have no disagreement.
I will never call any kind of Pro support not good enough. PS4 Pro and Scorpio aren't ever going to be priorities for multiplatform developers and I bought the console knowing that. Any kind of an upgrade is appreciated. I will openly praise those that go the extra mile and may express some disappointment at those that are a bit lackluster but support is support and an improvement is an improvement.
Liabe Brave
Member
That's a nice attitude, but I don't think there's an absolute "right" way to view Pro enhancements. If someone really loves the heights of graphical improvements in Paragon at 1080p, or the extreme fidelity of 4k Horizon, such that they just can't be satisfied with small bumps, I can't fault them. Those are just their tastes.
I do think it's possible to keep the developers out of it, though. There might be reasons beyond the devs' control for lesser results, such as publisher interference or budget constraints. But even if the developer is the cause, there's nothing to be gained by berating or dismissing them. Don't buy their product and they'll very much get the message. It's just uncivil to insult them into the bargain.
2blackcats
Member
Good to know, thanks. Must give that game another go. Played the first one religiously and never gave number 2 a fair shot.
Do you know if FFXV on Pro (High Mode) have a downsampling option for 1080p sets?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I don't really know if you want to call this "support". I mean it's a support by accident basically, as I think newly released games have to be compiled with the "Pro" flag enabled in the compiler, and they have to simply work on pro. By enabling this flag, the game uses the full hardware of the machine yielding better performance, but I'd say that in case of Edith Finch, no conscious effort actually went into supporting it. The game simply couldn't have been released without that flag enabled, which happened to allow for better performance. However, if the game was already running at 30FPS on the base PS4, there would be no visible difference between platforms whatsoever, except for maybe faster load time (another accidental advantage essentially)
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
I honestly had no idea that Pro Support wasn't mandatory. Fucking hell that infuriates me. This kind of shit should be mandatory. Hopefully MS doesn't pull the same shit with Scorpio.
There really are very few major titles that don't have Pro support, barring pre-Pro releases of course.
pretty done
Member
Definitely does. Isn't worth it though.
What games have you wanted to play that don't have Pro support?
Because of the framepacing issue? Steady mode is the better option then?
Liabe Brave
Member
This is not true. Games have shipped after Pro launch that do not get better performance on Pro automatically, but do improve if Boost Mode is switched on.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Some more LTTP FFXV shots. The Duscae region and all of Chapter 3 looks AMAZING. Ridiculous draw distance and game doesn't drop performance in High mode at all. I've gotten accustomed to the frame pacing so that's not bothering me anymore either. The game has some effects and features which in my opinion may even surpass Horizon, especially the game's water effects. You can't go into water like Horizon so you're not seeing a lot of water displacement but from the shores, the rain drops etc look gorgeous.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Marvel Heroes and Prey
Granted it's only two, but it sets a bad precedent.
People in the Prey topic are saying the box has "enhanced for Pro" on it, so if there's no Pro support yet, it may be in an incoming patch.