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[ponpo]

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2...-in-the-1930sthe-german-american-bund/529185/

In the years before the outbreak of World War II, people of German ancestry living abroad were encouraged to form citizens groups to both extol ”German virtues," around the world, and to lobby for causes helpful to Nazi Party goals. In the United States, the Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, or German American Bund, was formed in 1936 as ”an organization of patriotic Americans of German stock," operating about 20 youth and training camps, and eventually growing to a membership in the tens of thousands among 70 regional divisions across the country. On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an ”Americanization" rally in New York's Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers. As World War II began in 1939, the German American Bund fell apart, many of its assets were seized, and its leader arrested for embezzlement, and later deported to Germany.

Nearly 1,000 uniformed men wearing swastika arm bands and carrying Nazi banners parade past a reviewing stand in New Jersey on July 18, 1937. The New Jersey division of the German-American Bund opened its 100-acre Camp Nordland at Sussex Hills. Dr. Salvatore Caridi of Union City, spokesman for a group of Italian-American Fascists attending as guests, addressed the bund members as "Nazi Friends."

Hundreds of German Americans give the Nazi salute to young men marching in Nazi uniforms. The event was a German Day celebration sponsored by German American Bund at Camp Sigfried on Long Island.

German American Bund parade in New York City on East 86th St. on October 30, 1939.

A crowd of approximately 20,000 attends a German American Bund Rally at New York's Madison Square Garden on February 20, 1939. At center is a large portrait of George Washington, claimed as an icon by the Bund, who called him "the first Fascist", claiming Washington "knew democracy could not work."

New York City's mounted police form a solid line outside Madison Square Garden on February 20, 1939, to hold in check a crowd which packed the streets around the Garden where the German American Bund was holding a rally. To prevent any clash between bundsmen and counter-demonstrators, police surrounded the area with a force of 1,500.

more @ link

 

[Arkanius]

This is so fascinating
Feels something out of The Man in High Castle

The one with Washington as the center figure, reminds me of BioShock Infinite

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

The Dollop podcast did an episode called American Summer Hitler Camps if you'd like to know more about this shit show.

 

[Vagabundo]

Man I wonder how quickly they ditched those Nazi flags when the war started.

EDIT: or hid them in the closet.

 

[thetrin]

The Dollop podcast did an episode called American Summer Hitler Camps if you'd like to know more about this shit show.

Came in here to post the same thing. Great episode.

 

[dakun]

This is so fascinating
Feels something out of The Man in High Castle

The one with Washington as the center figure, reminds me of BioShock Infinite

Yeah, that's straight out of an alternate reality science fiction story. Crazy it was reality once

 

[Nanashrew]

Horrifying. Also makes me think of those Dr. Seuss political cartoons from back then.

Insane how a lot of this is so relevant to today.

 

[Vagabundo]

Horrifying. Also makes me think of those Dr. Seuss political cartoons from back then.




Insane how a lot of this is so relevant to today.

It's great that they could see through the bullshit. I bet the same percentage were probably dupped - or were duppable - as now. The difference with now is that with the internet and TV they can reach further into peoples lives.

 

[TheGameshark]

Reminds me of that Band of Brothers scene where they met an American serving in the SS.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I was watching the world at war documentary series before, and on the episode where they cover America from 1939 - 42 they do mention the American Nazis Party, as do most of the witnesses/important people they interviewed for the programme. Kinda weird we tend to forget about it. But then we also forget about Nazi sympathisers and fascists in the british aristocracy in the 1930s/war time Britain.

 

[Dead Man]

Horrifying. Also makes me think of those Dr. Seuss political cartoons from back then.




Insane how a lot of this is so relevant to today.

I was prepared to be disappointed with an unknown to me racist history of Dr Seuss. Very happily wrong.

 

[jambo]

I was prepared to be disappointed with an unknown to me racist history of Dr Seuss. Very happily wrong.

Yeah about that...

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah about that...

Well... fuck. At least he was anti Nazi. But fuck.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I remember reading that this was one of the reasons that Hitler wanted to keep the US idle as he pushed across Europe.

He thought the German population in the US could be more easily capitulated once the eventual invasion began.

I recall reading about the GAB in HS.

 

[Maledict]

Well... fuck. At least he was anti Nazi. But fuck.

To be fair, he deeply regretted those in later life, apologised profusely and tried to make amends.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I remember reading that this was one of the reasons that Hitler wanted to keep the US idle as he pushed across Europe.

He thought the German population in the US could be more easily capitulated once the eventual invasion began.

I recall reading about the GAB in HS.

I am not aware of any plans for an invasion of the United States. Theoretical designs for weapons capable of reaching America to bomb them late in the war, sure, but nothing beyond that. There weren't even any serious invasion plans for the UK after 1940 came and went, and what there was in 1940 were half-hearted with all three branches of the Wehrmacht bickering and wanting to shift responsibility onto each other.

In terms of political and territorial objectives, Hitler desired the annexation of Poland and the Soviet Union up to the Urals mountains, as well as a return of German colonies lost after WWI and Alcase-Lorraine from the French. America was not a factor in these designs, except as a potential adversary that ought to be kept out of the war.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I am not aware of any plans for an invasion of the United States. Theoretical designs for weapons capable of reaching America to bomb them late in the war, sure, but nothing beyond that. There weren't even any serious invasion plans for the UK after 1940 came and went, and what there was in 1940 were half-hearted with all three branches of the Wehrmacht bickering and wanting to shift responsibility onto each other.

In terms of political and territorial objectives, Hitler desired the annexation of Poland and the Soviet Union up to the Urals mountains, as well as a return of German colonies lost after WWI and Alcase-Lorraine from the French. America was not a factor in these designs, except as a potential adversary that ought to be kept out of the war.

Interesting. I know that Hitler wanted the US to remain idle and was hopeful that the large German population in the US could be used in that effort.

 

[Dehnus]

And these days they march again. Slightly reinvented, antisemitism the same (just changed a bit in name to "Soros and Arabs"), and proudly bearing titles as Alt Right and "Identitair Resistance".

Sigh, my great grandfather would be spinning in his grave were he not cremated.

 

[E92 M3]

Great thread.

 

[Host Samurai]

He craziest thing about this is that it happened in NJ/NYC/LI. Heavy Jewish populations.

 

[Volimar]

claiming Washington "knew democracy could not work."

He craziest thing about this is that it happened in NJ/NYC/LI. Heavy Jewish populations.

Even in the 30's?

 

[Artdayne]

I know my great grandfather lived in the United States, he was a Catholic convert but kept his Jewish roots secret until long after his death. Some of his family died in the concentration camps. I have to wonder if this played a part in that.

 

[Host Samurai]

Even in the 30's?

Good point.

 

[TestOfTide]

Yeah about that...

Yeah unfortunately Dr Seuss was such a huge fan of FDR and FDR's Democratic Party that he was willing to defend ANYTHING that the democrats did, including the blatantly bad shit. But hey I'm sure that's why he was hired by the government to do cartoons in support of the war.

It's a damn shame that he was willing to defend the internment camp stuff, because honestly the whole "Be a proud Patriot by rejecting those goddamn Nazis" attitude is definitely something that was boosted by Dr Seuss's cartoons and is a kind of patriotism I can always be proud of to some degree.

 

[ponpo]

Even in the 30's?

Good point.

I think because of pogroms the NYC Jewish population was high even before the 1930s.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

America always have had a paradoxical relationship with european immigrants. Here in Benjamin Franklin explaining why people with German genes was such a threat to American sovereignty:

Immigrants to America have always been feared and hated. Germans represent the largest group of immigrants to America, outnumbering the English and Irish by a wide margin. Nearly 20% of Americans can trace their ancestors back to Germany. But they were not universally welcomed to our shores. Louis Rumbaut (via Matt Yglesias) reminds us that one of our iconic founding fathers - Benjamin Franklin - warned about German immigrants overrunning America - in language that sounds very much like that of Mitt Romney and Roland Koch. Franklin warned that Germans were too stupid to learn English, and therefore represented a political threat to America:

"Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation...and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, 'tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain...Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it...I remember when they modestly declined intermeddling in our Elections, but now they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two Counties...In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious."

The other objection that Ben Franklin had to German immigrants was their "swarthy complexion", which was an affront to the "purely white people" who originally settled America:

Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

To be fair, he deeply regretted those in later life, apologised profusely and tried to make amends.

Yeah, and it also probably bears mentioning that he understood his mistakes within a decade.

Horton Hears a Who was written/published in 1954. He wrote it after visiting Japan. The strong overall moral message of the book is one of equality and how individuals shouldn't be ignored or generalized by the powerful and mighty. Various writers have examined how the book is an allegory to the US/Japan part of WW2 and the people of Japan should have been treated as people by the US government, the Japanese government and Seuss himself.

He continued to write books all the way up to his death in the 90's.

 

[jmdajr]

Wow I wasn't aware of this. I really don't think I learned about this in school.

 

[Alucrid]

oh look it's richard spencer

 

[sphagnum]

America always have had a paradoxical relationship with european immigrants. Here in Benjamin Franklin explaining why people with German genes was such a threat to American sovereignty:

I always thought this was such a wacky argument from Ben. "We need to keep America white so that aliens don't think less of us!"

And how could anyone ever think of Swedes as swarthy.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Wow I wasn't aware of this. I really don't think I learned about this in school.

Someone else mentioned the Nazi summer camps all over the US. I never listened to the Dollop podcast, but the radiolab one is insane.

http://www.radiolab.org/story/nazi-summer-camp/

Hitler donated money to the German prisoners so they could have a art exhibition. I mean... This is insane. It was insane that this went on as the rest of the US population was rationing, and the world was figuring out what the conditions were like in Nazi camps.

It feels strangely relevant, because in the end, despite the anger, the US idealism allowed the people at that time to remain true the ideals of the geneva conventions and the virtues of wanting to be the light in a dark world, and go above the primal nature of their enemies.
And this story becomes so incredible important when you view it in the context of our time; here on the brink of US abandoning all of its values and beliefs that these people fought and died for. From guantanamo and abu ghraib to consideration of pulling out of UNs human rights records, it becomes clear that the US have completely *lost* its virtues.
But the story also reports on the bizarre differences of why you could have japanese internment camps in which people were treated horrible, and then have camps like this where nazi POWs are treated better in some ways than the normal population.






Sorta related; Radiolab is a treasure trove of cool stories I didn't know about.


This one fascinated me. It's about a post-Pearl Harbor attack on US soil I had never heard about. It's reallllyyyy insane: http://www.radiolab.org/story/fu-go/


Also this one. It's about WW1, but it also is about the complex relationship of US-Germany. Fritz Haber was a german chemist who discovered the process of pulling nitrogen out of the air, which solved a global food shortage problem. His discover is called one of the most significant breakthroughs in all of human history. As he got his nobel peace prize, US officials considered him a war criminal.
He is the "father" of Saren Gas. The first mass use of chemical weapons deployed on the battlefield.
But that's not all. His life ends in a horrific twisted sense of irony. It's a really, really good listen: http://www.radiolab.org/story/180132-how-do-you-solve-problem-fritz-haber/

 

[DarthMasta]

I always thought this was such a wacky argument from Ben. "We need to keep America white so that aliens don't think less of us!"

And how could anyone ever think of Swedes as swarthy.

Because there's no real thing as White, it's all dependent on the prejudices of the time.

 

[Desi]

I need to find the article from Baltimore's City Paper about the rampant Nazism in the City during the 30's
Here: Baltimore City Paper

After a rendition of “The Star-Spangled Banner,” the leader of the group shouts “Heil Roosevelt!” And so everyone Heil's Roosevelt.

Then, a lot louder, comes “Heil Hitler.” Two hundred and fifty voices at once.

 

[More_Badass]

Sorta related; Radiolab is a treasure trove of cool stories I didn't know about.


This one fascinated me. It's about a post-Pearl Harbor attack on US soil I had never heard about. It's reallllyyyy insane: http://www.radiolab.org/story/fu-go/


Also this one. It's about WW1, but it also is about the complex relationship of US-Germany. Fritz Haber was a german chemist who discovered the process of pulling nitrogen out of the air, which solved a global food shortage problem. His discover is called one of the most significant breakthroughs in all of human history. As he got his nobel peace prize, US officials considered him a war criminal.
He is the "father" of Saren Gas. The first mass use of chemical weapons deployed on the battlefield.
But that's not all. His life ends in a horrific twisted sense of irony. It's a really, really good listen: http://www.radiolab.org/story/180132-how-do-you-solve-problem-fritz-haber/

This is your fast time listening to Radiolab? It has so many amazing stories.

And I highly recommend The Dollop. It's equal parts hilarious and informative

 

[KidGalactus]

I thought it was widely known that nazis were kind of popular in America before the war.

Guess not. Cool essay.

 

[More_Badass]

I thought it was widely known that nazis were kind of popular in America before the war.

Guess not. Cool essay.

It's not something you tend to learn about in school.

 

[Beardz]

I love old photos like those, I love the clothes, so much class.

 

[Stinkles]

The one good lesson here is that patriotism immediately erased this stuff, and I'm hoping it erases MAGA when people realize they've been duped by a plant.

 

[DarthMasta]

The one good lesson here is that patriotism immediately erased this stuff, and I'm hoping it erases MAGA when people realize they've been duped by a plant.

Patriotism? I think you mean WWII, once it turned into us or them affair, them became unfashionable. Good thing the them were Nazis, but if they had been the nicest people in the world the result would've been the same...

 

[Electric Eye]

I thought it was widely known that nazis were kind of popular in America before the war.

Guess not. Cool essay.

Yeah I didn't think so many people weren't aware of this. The Nazi party was popular because they were populist and anti communist. This was of course at a time before they started to invade others and killing millions with their master plan. Hell Americans were even ok with them after they invaded Poland because America was too busy trying to get out of the Great Depression and was an isolationist country. Americans as usual didn't give a fuck as the world burned around them until it affected them directly.

 

[Wet Bloodfart]

I love old photos like those, I love the clothes, so much class.

??

 

[dark_chris]

My apartment building in Chicago was made by nazis for sure - the old floors in the lobby were covered in swastikas, iron crosses, etc all over. The building is old as shit and hasn't been renovated in ages. It stayed like that until we got a new landlord, European guy, and immediately had them removed. I took a photo of it before he took them off.

It was always something whenever I had a guest over and they commented on the floors there.

 

[Nabbis]

Hell Americans were even ok with them after they invaded Poland because America was too busy trying to get out of the Great Depression and was an isolationist country. Americans as usual didn't give a fuck as the world burned around them until it affected them directly.

That's a bad thing?

Well i suppose it's better to be the one who starts the fire.

 

[Stinkles]

Patriotism? I think you mean WWII, once it turned into us or them affair, them became unfashionable. Good thing the them were Nazis, but if they had been the nicest people in the world the result would've been the same...

WWII was what I was saying. It made "Nazi" enemy of US almost overnight, and so patriotism overpowered fad

 

[Jag]

I think because of pogroms the NYC Jewish population was high even before the 1930s.

It was but they were the poor immigrants in the ghettos that barely spoke english. Jewish immigrants in NYC faced tremendous discrimination in NY. That's why there are many Wall Street firms, law firms and ad agencies that have Jewish names. They weren't allowed to work in the white firms, so they just started their own.

 

[KidGalactus]

It's not something you tend to learn about in school.

I learned this in high school in the nineties.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I always thought this was such a wacky argument from Ben. "We need to keep America white so that aliens don't think less of us!"

And how could anyone ever think of Swedes as swarthy.

Crazy to think Ben Franklin was talking about actual space aliens. If anyone wanted to make a mockery of racism, use those quotes, people would blush.

 

[KDR_11k]

He is the "father" of Saren Gas. The first mass use of chemical weapons deployed on the battlefield.

Huh? When I read about gas weapons and such on Wikipedia Sarin gas was listed as developed in time for WW2 which went mostly without chemical warfare, WW1 was mustard and chlorine gas. WW2 ran on some sort of "only if they use it first" doctrine and fortunately the Nazis didn't know they had a technological advantage over the Allies in gas warfare.

EDIT: Ah, the mistake here is that the gas in question is chlorine gas, not Sarin. Sarin was developed in 1939 by Gerhard Schrader. Haber was already dead at that time.

I thought it was widely known that nazis were kind of popular in America before the war.

Guess not. Cool essay.

More surprising to me was that the US has a Nazi party to this day.

 

[Rest]

oh look it's richard spencer

Is that guy really wearing jackboots?

 

[Kinan]

The Nazi Germany invested a lot of money in the support of "Germans abroad". There was a systematic work done trying to turn badically everyone with German origin abroad into a spy. And this policy was quite successful.

Putin has tried to employ some of those ideas as well, but, thankfully, Russians are not as organized and systematic as Germans.