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[ByWatterson]

Research I've seen puts the number of "false allegations" of sexual harassment in the low single digit percentages. But maybe you have some more recent studies that show how "common" it is?

I mean, even one tenth of one percent falsity rate is enough to warrant caution and deliberation.

 

[WaterAstro]

And on the flip side it seems that some people are overly eager to believe that accusations against their favourite developers/publishers must be lies. I just want to see the claims treated with the respect that all allegations of harassment should be treated with, and fully investigated.

The difference is that David did not label one specific person. He left it at Naughty Dog saying the work environment became toxic.

One person's action doesn't represent the entire studio. If he really was trying to call out one person's sexual harassment, he should have just put out the name and/or the exact description of the sexual harassment.

The victims are blaming Weinstein, not every person in his company. The victims are coming out with full details of their sexual harassment. If David is a real victim, he needs to fully disclose what happened. At the moment, people are just making assumptions.

 

[7roject28]

I'm surprised they didn't wait until Monday

Delays are only for games.

 

[Feorax]

I don't believe our "justice system" currently includes lynching, but then you seem to be the expert on that.

Figure of speech, but well done on the avoidance of the issue.

Are you genuinely telling me that if someone made a sexual harassment claim against you personally, you'd be happy to just let it go and admit fault without any evidence? Because that's what you implied when you said requiring evidence wasn't taking it seriously.

 

[The Wart]

Whoever is accused of sexual harassment according to the post I quoted (figure of speech of course).

The idea that you're not taking sexual aharrasment charges seriously if you want some sort of evidence is laughable. If someone accused me of that I'd damn sure want some proof.

So your argument is that investigation constitutes lynching? Or that investigations require high degrees of evidence, as opposed to definitionally existing for the purpose of gethering evidence? Are you being disingenuous?

Figure of speech, but well done on the avoidance of the issue.

Are you genuinely telling me that if someone made a sexual harassment claim against you personally, you'd be happy to just let it go and admit fault without any evidence? Because that's what you implied when you said requiring evidence wasn't taking it seriously.

The words you are saying bear nearly no relationship to those of the people you are responding to. No one said anything about "admitting fault". And the "justice system" has a specific meaning with specific standards that do not apply to other systems.

 

[Infinite Justice]

So many people in here who seem to have learned nothing from the Nick Robinson situation.

Still asking for receipts, still acting like we're in a court of law, still disinclined to take allegations of sexual misconduct seriously.

I hope that ND's hasty statement is the beginning of a deeper and fuller investigation, rather than the end of it.



They didn't say they "have no record of a formal complaint being made", they said they "have not found any evidence of having received allegations".

Those are two different things.

Statements that could be considered evidence and corroboration came out for the Nick Robinson thing though

things which are not currently present here and hopefully can come into light.

 

[SomTervo]

The difference is that David did not label one specific person. He left it at Naughty Dog saying the work environment became toxic.

One person's action doesn't represent the entire studio. If he really was trying to call out one person's sexual harassment, he should have just put out the name and/or the exact description of the sexual harassment.

The victims are blaming Weinstein, not every person in his company. The victims are coming out with full details of their sexual harassment. If David is a real victim, he needs to fully disclose what happened. At the moment, people are just making assumptions.

You'd hope that ND announced they would actually be beginning to look until this, but either way, yes it would help if David named names. Even if it were just to encourage other victims to come out. Totally understandable he didn't though. Terrifying to do. A real escalator.

 

[jono51]

If HR thought that was a reasonable statement to make, it's no wonder they can't find the paperwork. Say you will be performing a full investigation, don't shit out a statement on a sunday saying you can't find the email. Amateur hour.

 

[Feorax]

So your argument is that investigation constitutes lynching? Or that investigations require high degrees of evidence, as opposed to definitionally existing for the purpose of gethering evidence? Are you being disingenuous?

I'm saying you cannot expect a company or a person to admit any fault in a case like this without evidence being presented. Not can anyone expect that the accused will be automatically be guilty until proven innocent, which is want some people are saying.

I don't understand why this is so hard? The guy I quoted said anyone wanting evidence of harassment wasn't taking it seriously as a claim. Do you agree with that?

 

[The Wart]

I'm saying you cannot expect a company or a person to admit any fault in a case like this without evidence being presented. Not can anyone expect that the accused will be automatically be guilty until proven innocent, which is want some people are saying.

I don't understand why this is so hard?

Who are you talking to? Who is being asked to immediately admit fault?

 

[Feorax]

Who are you talking to? Who is being asked to immediately admit fault?

If someone isn't taking a claim seriously because they want evidence of harassment, which is what the poster I was replying to was saying, then that means that the person accused must be liable without evidence for the claim to be taken seriously in his eyes. I disagree with that statement.

I can't explain this any clearer.

 

[Hoo-doo]

They wouldn't have ever flat-out denied if they had records of this sexual harassment complaint. Sounds to me that ND/Sony knows about as much about this issue as the average gaf poster.

But obviously a call for pitchforks for some people.

 

[danthefan]

The threads on that situation basically looked exactly like the threads on this one.

What threads look like has nothing to do with whether this is a true or false allegation. There was a load of his DMs or messages or whatever that came out of that showed Nick Robinson did what his accusers said he did, i.e. evidence.

 

[Tagg9]

If HR thought that was a reasonable statement to make, it's no wonder they can't find the paperwork. Say you will be performing a full investigation, don't shit out a statement on a sunday saying you can't find the email. Amateur hour.

It took them a day to respond. I don't think you can assume that they did nothing in that time span apart from performing an email search.

Having said that, I think they should have noted that a more in-depth investigation will continue to take place so that they can at least talk to his colleagues that are still at the company.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

I get the current focus on sexual harassment in game dev and movie dev circles has caused a lot of people to become jaded, but why do so many posts read completely dismissive of ND? Are we to believe every single person that says they were violated or harassed without any evidence presented as of yet? The first page, at least, is full of people saying, “yea right screw you ND.”

But I only saw the first statement from the dude and this last statement from ND. Perhaps I’ve missed some incriminating evidence somewhere.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

The thing with the nick case as that we know that Nick did it.

I love that the women who spoke out about Weinstein called him out. This story can never feel complete unless the person who did this is rightfully identified so we can actually get to the facts about this situation.

 

[///PATRIOT]

I think people need to actually read what is being said here...

- YES, its a "very corporate" response...ND is part of a corporation
- NO, this is not a denial that the allegations are true
- NO, it is not ND saying they have a police dept and foresics team that has conducted a thorough investigation.
- YES, this is ND saying they went back in their HR records to look for any official documentation of a complaint.
- YES, this is ND saying they have no record of a complaint being filed


its POSSIBLE ND are just flat out lying...but thats a bold strategy on their part...its also POSSIBLE that an HR employee never documented the complaint, which means ND would have no record of the complaint...its also possible that a complaint was never filed through official channels, which means ND would not have records of it...

there are TONS of possibilities as to what happened...but all this statement says is, we looked through our records, and didnt find an official complaint

.

 

[BiggNife]

I get the current focus on sexual harassment in game dev and movie dev circles has caused a lot of people to become jaded, but why do so many posts read completely dismissive of ND? Are we to believe every single person that says they were violated or harassed without any evidence presented as of yet? The first page, at least, is full of people saying, “yea right screw you ND.”

But I only saw the first statement from the dude and this last statement from ND. Perhaps I’ve missed some incriminating evidence somewhere.

Which is more believable: a personal account from a person who is possibly jeopardizing his future by being public about this, or a company owned by one of the biggest corporations in the world?

 

[leehom]

It took them a day to respond. I don't think you can assume that they did nothing in that time span apart from performing an email search.

Having said that, I think they should have noted that a more in-depth investigation will continue to take place so that they can at least talk to his colleagues that are still at the company.

Majority of large corporations have individual files on each employee. Doesn't take more than ten minutes to find the inactive employee file in the file cabinet. I believe corps are required to keep inactive files for three to five years before they're disposed of.

 

[Donthizz#]

to Come out denying like that, didn’t expect that. They have to be pretty confident about that statement. Otherwise lawyers at Sony would have never allow something like that right?

 

[WaterAstro]

You'd hope that ND announced they would actually be beginning to look until this, but either way, yes it would help if David named names. Even if it were just to encourage other victims to come out. Totally understandable he didn't though. Terrifying to do. A real escalator.

There's a huge difference about why Weinstein's victims didn't come out with full disclosure when it happened. Weinstein actually had the power to destroy their careers with his connection. I doubt anyone at Naughty Dog has that power.

In fact, I think what David has done has pretty much ended his career. Without evidence, companies are going to be wary about hiring him since he can do the same to them if he really doesn't have anything substantial about his current claim.

 

[dreamlongdead]

That was very brief. I expected far more than this.

So, this case is apparently closed?

 

[Tovarisc]

They wouldn't have ever flat-out denied if they had records of this sexual harassment complaint. Sounds to me that ND/Sony knows about as much about this issue as the average gaf poster.

But obviously a call for pitchforks for some people.

Or case file just was never opened for complaint he did and then he was just fired basically next day. Then if he did complaint via phone or face to face meeting then there is no paper trail to discover as one doesn't exist.

to Come out denying like that, didn't expect that. They have to be pretty confident about that statement. Otherwise lawyers at Sony would have never allow something like that right?

Not surprised if Sony lawyers wrote that and had ND release it.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Or case file just was never opened for complaint he did and then he was just fired basically next day. Then if he did complaint via phone or face to face meeting then there is no paper trail to discover as one doesn't exist.

Why?

 

[Sjefen]

Unnless he drops some names and what took place, I can only imagine still will die off.

 

[orochi91]

Unnless he drops some names and what took place, I can only imagine still will die off.

Pretty much.

 

[Tovarisc]

Why?

Why what?

 

[ElephantShell]

That was very brief. I expected far more than this.

So, this case is apparently closed?

Not necessarily, they don't need to tell the public everything that is going on. It's possible somebody is looking into it in some way.

 

[Jigorath]

Given how quick this response was, it sounds like the only thing ND did was check their HR records and move on, which I think is a poor call. Sexual assault is a very serious allegation. They should at the very least meet with David Ballard and get his whole side of the story. Then talk to people who worked in his department if they noticed anyone acting inappropriately towards another employee.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

If HR thought that was a reasonable statement to make, it's no wonder they can't find the paperwork. Say you will be performing a full investigation, don't shit out a statement on a sunday saying you can't find the email. Amateur hour.

They didn't say they can't find it because someone lost it in a file drawer somewhere.

They are saying it doesn't exist.

 

[Night Angel]

Given how quick this response was, it sounds like the only thing ND did was check their HR records and move on, which I think is a poor call. Sexual assault is a very serious allegation. They should at the very least meet with David Ballard and get his whole side of the story. Then talk to people who worked in his department if they noticed anyone acting inappropriately towards another employee.

Anyone who suggests this knows absolutely nothing about how to handle these kinds of accusations.

 

[Feorax]

Given how quick this response was, it sounds like the only thing ND did was check their HR records and move on, which I think is a poor call. Sexual assault is a very serious allegation. They should at the very least meet with David Ballard and get his whole side of the story. Then talk to people who worked in his department if they noticed anyone acting inappropriately towards another employee.

I give up.

 

[///PATRIOT]

What do you do If you were ND or SONY CEO?

 

[DataGhost]

Not necessarily, they don't need to tell the public everything that is going on. It's possible somebody is looking into it in some way.

They don't. Just like they didn't need to make this quick statement.

However, they did make this statement and therefore, I believe there is no investigation. After all, there is no evidence that he made an official complaint according to them, which unfortunately may be true. There's no leads for them to investigate and the tone of the statement gives a dismissing feeling.

 

[GHG]

What do you do If you were ND or SONY CEO?

Tell my employees to stop shredding paper then post a topic on GAF OT asking for advice on what I should do.

 

[The Wart]

They didn't say they can't find it because someone lost it in a file drawer somewhere.

They are saying it doesn't exist.

We have not found any evidence of having received allegations from Mr. Ballard that he was harassed in any way at Naughty Dog or Sony Interactive Entertainment.

Saying something definitely never existed is a much stronger claim than any lawyer would let them make.

If someone isn't taking a claim seriously because they want evidence of harassment, which is what the poster I was replying to was saying, then that means that the person accused must be liable without evidence for the claim to be taken seriously in his eyes. I disagree with that statement.

I can't explain this any clearer.

But none of that means the things you are saying they mean. An internal investigation is in no way an admission of fault or liability.

I'd do exactly what they did. They're paid a lot of money to act in the best interests of the company. What else could they do without fucking things up massively?

If you can't conduct an internal investigation regarding allegations of misconduct without "fucking things up massively" then you've already fucked things up massively.

 

[Feorax]

What do you do If you were ND or SONY CEO?

I'd do exactly what they did. They're paid a lot of money to act in the best interests of the company. What else could they do without fucking things up massively?

 

[Tuorom]

I mean, even one tenth of one percent falsity rate is enough to warrant caution and deliberation.

Sure I guess. But you should always side with the victim in these cases until it becomes obvious something is not adding up. Otherwise you run the risk of people going too far and wanting to put walls up to block mexicans from invading the country. Or banning people from certain countries from flying here because of that one tenth of a one percent.

 

[Jigorath]

Anyone who suggests this knows absolutely nothing about how to handle these kinds of accusations.

So... They shouldn't look into their workplace to see if people are being harassed? That's the wrong call? Oh, okay.

I give up.

Oh good, I guess you'll stop posting in the thread now?

 

[Stranya]

I just want to say, I am not picking sides and I have NO facts whatsoever about the situation.

However, I have worked as an employment discrimination attorney for a while. And it's not at all uncommon for a disgruntled former employee to make up claims of sexual harassment.

I want to add this disclaimer in bold - sexual harassment does occur and it's, unfortunately, all too common in every industry.

However, none of us should draw any conclusions based on what little we know about the situation. It may have happened. But it may not have happened. Naughty Dog and Sony absolutely need to investigate the allegations if they have not already done so.

I've worked as an employment and discrimination lawyer too, and I agree that no conclusions should be drawn yet.

Their statement is carefully worded, as one would expect from a company taking proper legal advice. They've said they've found no record of any allegations. This doesn't mean that allegations weren't made; just that they didn't find any. Of course, one would expect an employer, in such a situation, to conduct an exhaustive investigation into whether such allegations were made. Who knows whether that happened.

I would always advise any employee to take contemporaneous notes of absolutely everything, and keep copies of all written or electronic correspondence. If the former employee in this case kept such records, then that would be very interesting.

 

[Tain]

Instead, this thread is filled with:
-Assumption of guilt for Sony and ND
-Claims of a huge conspiracy and coverup, including documents being destroyed by HR
- Talk about boycotting ND and Sony

one of the funniest fucking things online is when a poster acts like making a decision to not use one's hard-earned money buy a given studio's video games is a vile, heinous, act

call the police, GamerDude78 isn't buying Uncharted!

 

[Feorax]

So... They shouldn't look into their workplace to see if people are being harassed? That's the wrong call? Oh, okay.

No, what they shouldn't do is approach ex employees who are making accusations. Why would you EVER risk exacerbating a situation by doing that?

 

[Jigorath]

No, what they shouldn't do is approach ex employees who are making accusations. Why would you EVER risk exacerbating a situation by doing that?

Oh I guess you didn't give up.

 

[Fury451]

Yes.

Except they didn't at all. It's a crafted legal statement.

 

[Feorax]

Oh I guess you didn't give up.

Can't help myself. I really should leave this thread. Dealing with the repeated ignorance isn't good for me.

 

[The Wart]

So... They shouldn't look into their workplace to see if people are being harassed? That's the wrong call? Oh, okay.

I think (hope) the point they were very indirectly getting at is that direct contact with an accuser could dramatically increase their potential liabilities, if for instance the accuser later said that ND tried to intimidate them into silence or something.

They may be able to get information from him another way, but I imagine it would all have to be through lawyers.

 

[stan423321]

Oh I guess you didn't give up.

Couldn't wait with that quick statement before actually having an answer to the stated question, could you?

 

[Night Angel]

I think (hope) the point they were very indirectly getting at is that direct contact with an accuser could dramatically increase their potential liabilities, if for instance the accuser later said that ND tried to intimidate them into silence or something.

They may be able to get information from him another way, but I imagine it would all have to be through lawyers.

Ding ding ding

 

[reKon]

I get the current focus on sexual harassment in game dev and movie dev circles has caused a lot of people to become jaded, but why do so many posts read completely dismissive of ND? Are we to believe every single person that says they were violated or harassed without any evidence presented as of yet? The first page, at least, is full of people saying, “yea right screw you ND.”

But I only saw the first statement from the dude and this last statement from ND. Perhaps I’ve missed some incriminating evidence somewhere.

It's NeoGAF so a response like this is expected. A lot of people want to jump to conclusions, but the issue clearly has to be investigated further. I hope for the best outcome for all parties involved. The victim should have proper justice and not have their career so negatively impacted. ND should make changes to ensure that their work environment is suitable for all to work in the most comfortable way that they and have the right people leading. This is of course assuming all the allegations are true.

 

[jxN3]

I wish David would have given a name, especially if Sony and Naughty Dog didn't do anything for him through the proper channels.

He focused his energy on the two companies, which is fine, but that doesn't change the fact that whoever sexually assaulted David is still working in the industry.

These brave woman he sights in the tv industry are saying names, because regardless of "receipts" it lets other woman in the industry know to watch themselves around these individuals.