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[pancakesandsex]

I just recently replayed the game.
Is Julia Rinoa's mother?

Yes.
Laguna and Julia don't get together, but their kids (with other people) do. I thought that was neat.

 

[Rahul]

Well either the gobsmackingly impossible is "intentionally left untold" or Squall intentionally doesn't die.

It seems to me you affronted a theory with little evidence supporting it other than theres no evidence entirely disproving it. When a piece or part doesn't go along with the theory you simply ignore it rather than adjusting the theory accordingly.

Yes. Why should I adjust our theory to something I don't believe in? This isn't a science class, this is me and my girlfriend having a little fun with a game we like a lot more after using this explanation. I'm not about to let some equally spotty argumentation like "what if your theory, is, in fact, not true at all!!" change my mind, because I enjoy the game a lot more this way. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on the analysis because sure, there might be something we missed. But so far I've only heard what basically amounts to "I disagree strongly because of reason X" and that reason hasn't been compelling enough for me to change my mind.

I'm not out to prove anything, again. I'm just out to share and discuss. If you have a problem with that, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Rahul]

This is what you say in your article:

"Ultimecia, she starts to say some strange things, statements that appear very out-of-context for a final battle.

"Reflect on your... Childhood..."

"Your sensation... Your words... Your emotions..."

"Time... It will not wait..."

"No matter... ...how hard you hold on. It escapes you..."

When I read those words, a chill ran up my spine. With every attack, you bring down Ultimecia's hit points, and you bring Squall's dream to a close. Squall, oblivious, fights on, and only this figment of his imagination seems aware of what is happening."


I think you are saying that Ultimecia knows what is happening, Squall is dying and he isn't aware of that.

The other is that he doesn't know that he is dying until he receives the feather and watch the vision. Who send the feather? Rinoa. And for what you say here:
"And now, finally, Squall is dead. We see a white feather fall to the ground, and the screen fades to black. The last ten minutes of the FFVIII ending movie are, in the simplest terms, of "heaven", or some equivalent thereof."

We see Rinoa already in this "heaven" before Squall receives the feather, so i think it's clear it's Rinoa who sends the feather and tells him the truth.

No, that's not what we're saying. We're saying that the words spoken by Ultimecia are symbolic, as if she (in our theory, she exclusively exists in his dreams, not in reality) were just there to reflect his own thoughts. After all, when you're dreaming, people basically say and do things because you're thinking them to, consciously or not. That's our interpretation.

As for the feather: I don't know what you're talking about when you say Rinoa "sent" the feather. The feather is also symbolic. It is not my interpretation that there is a real, physical feather somewhere that was "sent" by someone with some actual physical consequence. If I had to explain it, and I prefer not to because that's overreaching even more than we already are, then I'd expect him to be visualising feathers because she has wings painted on her shirt and they remind him of her.

 

[konstarGAF]

As for the feather: I don't know what you're talking about when you say Rinoa "sent" the feather.

In the opening we watch how Rinoa is in that flower field, grabs a flower petal and transforms it to a feather. I think that part of the opening is part of the ending too. Thats why i think the flower field is important, that Rinoa sends the feather, she tell Squall what's happening and all that.

What?, I have to think that feather appeared out of nowhere when moments before i saw Rinoa in that flower field, the same flower field of the opening where she sends the feather? isn't that what the game is telling me?.

 

[neptunes]

I just recently replayed the game.
Is Julia Rinoa's mother?

Holy crap, I never noticed that :lol

 

[Rahul]

In the opening we watch how Rinoa is in that flower field, grabs a flower petal and transforms it to a feather. I think that part of the opening is part of the ending too. Thats why i think the flower field is important, that Rinoa sends the feather, she tell Squall what's happening and all that.

What?, I have to think that feather appeared out of nowhere when moments before i saw Rinoa in that flower field, the same flower field of the opening where she sends the feather? isn't that what the game is telling me?.

You can think whatever you want, I don't have a problem with it. I just don't agree with you

 

[Prime Blue]

Despite the Ultimania guide supporting that conclusion as well. :lol

Where?

 

[Rahul]

Bumping the thread to post this, which I feel is worth it:

 

[mango drank]

It's probably been said already, but I think you're giving Square's writers too much credit. Final Fantasy just isn't that deep.

Also:
HAHE ROBBLE ROBBLE 8D

 

[Brazil]

I have faith in this theory. It explains everything.

Therefore, VIII is fucking sad.

Bumping the thread to post this, which I feel is worth it:

Holy fuck. :lol

 

[TheSeks]

Bumping the thread to post this, which I feel is worth it:

http://goo.gl/QfcQ

Not to bump a few weeks old thread, but: :lol

Also the theory is sound for the most part, but you're drawing conclusions for the mish-mash of writing that FF8 did. At least, in your defense: Your theory makes sense from the game and is more sound than the "Ultimecia is really Rinoa in the future" theory that some people believe.

I like this theory in the way that it makes a replay different, but for the most part I can't really take it to heart. I don't think Square made FF8 that deep. :lol

Is Julia Rinoa's mother?

Yes. And one of the cooler parts of Final Fantasy 8's default story is how Laguna is tied to nearly everything Squall/Rinoa and the others do. (Note: Not all of it, but he is a major part of the history of the world before Squall/Rinoa and party)

 

[Ether_Snake]

- The fact that they never mention the wound is the biggest clue. It's never mentioned once despite being this big.

Looking at the game, that thing is at least 2 feet long, and 5-6 inches thick. How the fuck could he survive that, AND the fall? And as I have said before, THAT is the biggest plot hole in the game. But this theory pretty much seals that.

They weren't even prison for long. They just woke up, realized they were in prison, and then suddenly Seifer was interrogating Squall. That's not nearly enough for a wound to heal? Is this the victim of a bad translation?

Err.......

Curaga?

 

[Coldsnap]

Eh this is the most recent Final Fantasy 8 thread and I don't want to start my own for a simple question.

I just downloaded Final Fantasy 8 on PSN, about to play it for the first time. Should I use a guide? I have no qualms with using a guide if there is a ton of stuff to miss in a game... unless you guys think since it's my first time around I should go without a guide and explore for myself.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

http://squallsdead.com got mentioned on the most recent geekbox podcast!

 

[Nora Kisaragi]

Even though Kingdom Hearts isn't canon in any way, if this theory is true, than the character designers would have this theme in mind when putting FF8 characters in Kingdom Hearts.

This also explains why Squall is called "Leon" in KH and why he's an adult when all other ff8 characters are children. Because he's the only one that matured and realized all of this, kind of like an epiphany. He's "Leon" because "Squall" is dead.

 

[mt1200]

Bumping this thread again.

I finished the game severa months ago, I didnt really care too much about the story since I thought it wasnt complex or anything.

But when I saw the ending it was really wtf..

and then I read that squall is dead, and R = U theories and it blew my mind.

Yes, I remember watching the Deling cutscene when squall got skewed by that Ice lance, my first thought was "he's done", but then they appear in the desert prison and squall seems to be fine.

Whats the true meaning of the faceless squall?, have the developers explained anything?. the plot can be viewed from many different positions because of all the plot holes.

Can you guys remember when that Moomba was calling squall "Laguna!"? it never made sense.

 

[Dunan]

Wow! I remember reading this thread long, long ago, before I was a member here. "Squall is dead" is pretty interesting, but I prefer the R=U theory, or, more accurately, the "R would have become U if not for the events of the game, which averted that future" theory.

For all its flaws, FF8 really is a lot of fun and a pleasure to play through. Great cities, great environments, great music. Plot... well, not awful.

mt1200, the Moomba is calling Squall "Laguna" because he reminds them of Laguna, with whom they spent some time back in the Shumi Village nearly 17 years ago. With good reason -- Laguna is in fact

Spoiler

Squall's father and presumably has a similar scent

.

So that part actually foreshadows what you eventually learn, and makes perfect sense.

IIRC from the conversations in the Shumi Village, Shumis eventually

Spoiler

evolve into

Moombas, so those Moombas could in fact be the very same

Spoiler

Shumis that Laguna ran those errands for and interacted with

, though they could just be friends of those Shumis. Does the game ever say?

(And Freshmaker, if you're still out there, thanks for the props in post 448; I'm DaBubba on GameFAQs and had beent rying to defend the translation of this game, which is basically fine though it could stand a few improvements, from hyper-sensitive we-must-translate-every-word-literally types who would gladly toss good English aside in a quest to show how much Japanese they know. I do want to go through the Japanese original with a fine-toothed comb at some point to see if any of the game's supposed flaws (lack of foreshadowing about memory loss, for example) stem from mistranslations.

 

[mt1200]

Well but they never told that Laguna was Squall's father we just thought that but it was never explicit.

Isn't there any official explanation by Square?, because they really never explained how could squall survive that Ice spear.

 

[Dunan]

Well but they never told that Laguna was Squall's father we just thought that but it was never explicit.

Isn't there any official explanation by Square?, because they really never explained how could squall survive that Ice spear.

I don't think Square ever officially explained it, but it's not the kind of thing that people are going to argue about in the way that they argue about R=U and the like. Laguna is definitely and unquestionably Squall's father, and various scenes in the game give it away. One in particular is when you get the Ragnarok and have Kiros and Ward in the cockpit. Someone mentions that you (Squall) look like your mother and not like your father. Also, Laguna says that when this is all over, he has an important talk to have with Squall. There are other references too.

It's a fun thing to figure out. When I picked up on it, it made sense because of the subtle hints that had come before (as opposed to Laguna's current job, which I'd never expected when it was revealed).

I haven't played the new Dissidia, but Laguna and Squall are both in it, aren't they? Are there any references to them being father and son in that game? That would serve as official confirmation.

 

[0 HP]

I want to play it again, but I feel this might be true. FF7 had hidden stuff in it

Spoiler

Jenova was the main villain/controlled everything

and I think they wanted to one up that with FF8. You have to remember how hyped this game was back in 98/99. I think they would want to do something like this. That's really the only way they could follow up VII imo

 

[mt1200]

Were the developers and writers really that deep?, FFs are games for teenagers who just want to enjoy a not-so-complex storyline (Except for tactics and maybe 12)

Also, in the ending cutscene there is a short video where rinoa's space helmet breaks, squall cound not possibly remember that in a dream because it never happened in CD 1

 

[ctrayne]

For all its flaws, FF8 really is a lot of fun and a pleasure to play through. Great cities, great environments, great music. Plot... well, not awful.

Thanks for saying this. I think FF8 is a visual design masterpiece. The character design is mostly great, especially Rinoa's very wearable, modern clothing, and the architecture is the best I've seen in a game this side of DXHR. The FMVs are a real treat, too, as is the good use of color. There's something very strange and special about FF8. Not a raving fan of the series (4 and 12 are great) but I love 8's ethereal quality.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

So it appears this theory from the GAF of yesteryear is still alive and kicking.

Being picked apart brutally by the Resonant Arc guys this week. Worth a watch!



It's funny because I was watching it and they were wondering if the people who started the theory were still around and then I remembered that it originated from GAF and dug up this thread.

 

[IAmRei]

I choose to cheer my self with rinoa is ultemecia and squall is dead then rinoa/ultemecia correct things in the past although she is killed by squall. Yeah i imagine it my self because the story is kind of awful for the third time i play it in 00s.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I choose to cheer my self with rinoa is ultemecia and squall is dead then rinoa/ultemecia correct things in the past although she is killed by squall. Yeah i imagine it my self because the story is kind of awful for the third time i play it in 00s.

Awful and captivating at the same time lol

 

[IAmRei]

Awful and captivating at the same time lol

This is the frustating one, i mean, i love the music (the in game bgm, not the ending ost) i love the world visual concept, mindblowing at that time. Even for now, ended as the best world i want to live in. All beside 15 i think.

I can write an essay for this : ))

yes, frustating and captivating in one experience.

 

[Scotty W]

This gives me an excuse to play this game.

I have the most valid opinions. I will tell you how it is.

 

[Bernardougf]

It is my favorite Final Fantasy, together with X, didnt even know it was so divisive until recently, had a fucking blast with the game.. go figure .. guess I like a bad game lol... It happens

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

This is the frustating one, i mean, i love the music (the in game bgm, not the ending ost) i love the world visual concept, mindblowing at that time. Even for now, ended as the best world i want to live in. All beside 15 i think.

I can write an essay for this : ))

yes, frustating and captivating in one experience.

Give me more modern fantasy FF. FFVII kinda scratches that itch too, but not to the same extent as VIII.

 

[Toots]

The most surprising thing in this whole necro is learning Björk was a gaffette

 

[SkylineRKR]

FFVIII is an excellent game. It has its issues and the twist was lazy, but its production values were outlandish. Graphically it looked insanely good for being a PS1 game, it trashed FFVII. And the opening FMV might be the best Square has ever created. And that OST, which I consider to be Uematsu's finest.

Probably my number one overworld in FF too. Awesome locations.

The game is about the advancement of time, and the things you lose in the process. I liked Ultimecias final words, esp. in the original language. Time will ultimately get the better of you, so cherish your memories. When I was 18 I took it for granted, but now at 42 I often reflect on my youth.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

X is dead is a lazy fan theory take that I couldn't say started with this take but it definitely popularised it. It's garbage.

Ultimate being Rinoa makes so much fucking sense, FF VIII respects the audience enough to piece that one together but Squall being dead is reaching.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

FFVIII is an excellent game. It has its issues and the twist was lazy, but its production values were outlandish. Graphically it looked insanely good for being a PS1 game, it trashed FFVII. And the opening FMV might be the best Square has ever created. And that OST, which I consider to be Uematsu's finest.

Probably my number one overworld in FF too. Awesome locations.

The game is about the advancement of time, and the things you lose in the process. I liked Ultimecias final words, esp. in the original language. Time will ultimately get the better of you, so cherish your memories. When I was 18 I took it for granted, but now at 42 I often reflect on my youth.

Nice. It's stuff like this why I'm glad I was playing FF at a young age. It's nice to reflect on the series and the themes presented in the games in such a way.