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Aonuma: That was Link in the Wii U Zelda trailer, denies 'female' rumors

Don't do this to yourself. There was too much reading into a vague comment and when he basically says "I didn't mean for it to be taken as now it's a she, it still is Link" you guys are now reading too little into his direct words. This selective reading is going to harm you, though like I said stage 1 denial so if it helps I guess no harm done. You gotta understand this is an established franchise with am established character. Japan is all about keeping tradition with stuff like this. Not to say that a spin off won't happen. There is a Super Princess Peach I mean.

Whichever way it ended or ultimately ends up, it's not really the traditional reading into it when the man himself draws attention to exactly this beyond the time of the initial supposed joke going hey man "that might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific – I am not saying anything specific" when directly asked the question about if this character is indeed a girl or female Link by the interviewer.
 

CTLance

Member
Aw. I liked the idea of a female Link. Not gonna complain either way, but I was pretty convinced trailer Link was female, so hearing he's not is a tiny bit of a disappointment. Had myself all worked up about the possibilities - if they were cheeky enough to change the gender of the main protagonist, who knows what else they would be willing to change.
 
Whichever way it ended or ultimately ends up, it's not really the traditional reading into it when the man himself draws attention to exactly this beyond the time of the initial supposed joke going hey man "that might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific – I am not saying anything specific" when directly asked the question about if this character is indeed a girl or female Link by the interviewer.
He probably was having fun and some higher up told him to cut the shit and he directly answered. No harm done, he was just being playful.
 

Shinta

Banned
I never want Link to swap genders.

But a Zelda featuring Zelda as the star was actually pretty exciting. Can still happen I think.

Yeah, you never know. At the very least, we know Aonuma is fully aware of the conversation now.

And Hyrule Warriors has playable Midna, Zelda, and Impa. I actually haven't even seen a male character in Hyrule Warriors at all besides Link. People should think about that.

Nintendo is not sexist, so let's at least not make this an ugly stain on a fantastic looking, gorgeous and magical game.
 
Wow. I know Link has looked feminine for a while now, but the fact that he looks SO much like a girl in this one that people (myself included) could look at him and immediately think "that's a girl!" Kinda bugs me. I don't care if I'm playing as a guy or a girl or not, but I like to at least be able to tell the difference -.-

I mean, his entire facial structure and the stern look he had looked extremely similar to twilight princess zelda IMO.
 

gdt

Member
Haha.

So much drama over this silly thing. Of course that was Link and of course he's a boy.

Because, you know, he looks like a boy with long hair in the trailer.
 

Forkball

Member
Silly Aonuma. "I'm not saying it's Link... but it's Link."

Link is male for one important purpose: the dangers of squatting in the wild. If Link was a girl and had to go, she would have to squat down and a Deku Baba could completely catch her off guard. But with male Link, he's got one hand on the Master Sword and the other on his weapon. There is a larger change of reaction and thus survival. It's just logic people.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
See, I told you so! The "female Link" and "it's Zelda" theories seemed ridiculous to me all along. Why? Because it looks like a teenage boy, not a girl, and it looks like Link, not Zelda. Not sure why some people so strongly wanted this to be something else.
 

DungeonO

Member
It would be awesome if they went with a gay Link. If there was ever a series to break that wall down, it would have to be Zelda. In the past, graphics, controls, violence, those made a game stand out in mass media. Explaining that the lead character in such an established series is gay would be breaking news world wide. It would really be a cool scenario to see play out. That would be the biggest game changer since Mario 64.
 

Forkball

Member
It would be awesome if they went with a gay Link. If there was ever a series to break that wall down, it would have to be Zelda. In the past, graphics, controls, violence, those made a game stand out in mass media. Explaining that the lead character in such an established series is gay would be breaking news world wide. It would really be a cool scenario to see play out. That would be the biggest game changer since Mario 64.

The only game in which Link and Zelda are romantically involved in is Skyward Sword. For the other titles, he's just rescuing her because she's in danger. Maybe all those Links were gay, we don't know!
 
Haha.

So much drama over this silly thing. Of course that was Link and of course he's a boy.

Because, you know, he looks like a boy with long hair in the trailer.

'But the face is so pretty and look at the long hair with the pony tail. Boys cannot be pretty and wear pony tails, those are exclusively girly things after all, that's why that has to be a girl. We can't be looking at pretty boys with pretty hair in video games now, can we?'
 

Raw64life

Member
Guess I wasn't in the right threads because I had no clue anyone ever thought this. How silly. Can't wait for reviewers to knock a point of this game's score and complain about how they're tired of the same old penis equipped, straight laced Link.......
 
That is not my point. Each one has lived and died. They were each successively replaced by a new hero. Said hero is not required nor bound by gender.
Say whatever is your opinion about the timeline but it shows that each Link is their own person.
But my point is that this isn't an issue of gender, but people are trying to make it seem like that so they can feel morally superior. It's an issue of change. I don't want to play as a 6 ft 5 300 pound Link with a body builders phisique either, but according to your logic you would be fine with that too. I have no issue playing as that type of character, but I want to do so in a gears of war game not a Zelda one.
 
If you're upholding PokeMon as proof that you can still tell rich stories with a variable lead character, you're grasping at straws. The most interesting story told within the PokeMon universe only happened once Twitch started controlling it.

Mass Effect is unique, mainly because you set up your character's backstory as a part of the character creation process. That's how you have a legend, and it's what they base the character relationships off of (when one is presumed to have met you prior to the game's beginning). For a game as sprawling and focused on relationships as ME, it works. They made the sort of game that allowed them to write complex, interesting plots that worked with different spins on the MC. Zelda is not going to do that. I don't want that to be Zelda.

This is a simple matter of storytelling. If I'm writing a plot for a game, and I know exactly who the main character is - all their traits, all their characteristics - it allows me to treat it like any other medium. I can write a huge sprawling narrative that happens both before and after the game itself. Characters who interact with the lead can have a history, because they've interacted and I can craft stories about who they were - and why they are who they are now.

But let's say I can change the name of the character. No huge deal. The name doesn't mean much. Sure, if the character is some universe-breaking thing, it would theoretically be a part of their history - but at that point, it's a fault on the player and not my issue.

Now let's say I can change their gender. Depending on the world I'm trying to write, that might have massive consequences. Depending on that variable, they may have interacted with a certain character in a different way - left that interaction with different impressions of each other.

Why not change race as well? Now I've got to wonder about that. If Link can have a different skin color, does that alter how he's seen in his community? Are individuals more or less willing to trust him?

And sure, you may say "Just don't write characters that treat people differently based on those variables". But that's creatively stifling. If I'm writing a game where the player can be any gender or race and ensure that has zero influence on the story - that means I'm limited to writing stories where gender & race are non-issues.

Sure. Some of these concepts may not come up all that often in a Zelda game. But there are artists who craft these worlds, and have detailed visions to the lore & mystery behind them. It's what makes this franchise so beloved - the rich nature of the world. Introducing a customizable player character puts a reign on that creativity. And I want to avoid that at all costs.
If you're implying that Zelda somehow has a rich narrative, or is somehow above Pokemon or any other game then you've completely lost me. Seems like it's perfectly comparable to Pokemon. Like what do you have, prophecy, legends, boys goes on adventure, beats the bad guy. Silver probably has a deeper backstory than anyone in a Zelda game anyway what with the child neglect, revenge and reconciliation.

That Mass Effect back story is hardly important, just as whatever characters who have history with Link usually aren't. The only time it's brought up in Mass Effect is in throwaway dialog and one or two side quests.

What are Links characteristics? He's silent and allegedly always brave. That's such a difficult character to construct a narrative in one's head around. Look at OoT, the only person who has history with Link is Saria and the Kokiri who are forgotten about in a half hour. So how important is this history again?

How does someone playing as a girl affect you then? It'll be the same narrative, people are still going to react to you the same way, you're still going to save the world, you're still going to make up whatever personality you want in your head. If people choosing a name doesn't affect you, them choosing a gender shouldn't either cause you'll be in your own adventure like you already are.

You say that changing the gender might have serious consequences...how? So Saria doesn't have a crush on you and Ruto doesn't want to marry you? Or maybe they still do? How is this a serious consequence? These are one note characters like most Zelda characters.

Well why not have an option to change the race? Why not have darker skin? I'm assuming you're referring to that. It's not as if they're writing a story where being a white male has consequences in their games right now. Unless you mean change to zora, or gerudo or something. Then yeah, it would have to change the story. But that's more of a species change.

I dont know, I dont really see Zelda as a bastion of sociopolitical narratives. This is a series with female kid pirates like Tetra and where everyone acts like this is normal. This is just a story of hero going on an adventure, bad guy wants to rule the world, hero saves the day. To me, playing as girl doesn't hurt the lore or the world at all because gender hasn't ever been important to the narrative in the series, nor has a character select screen been any more atmosphere destroying than a file and name select screen. I don't know why being a little more inclusive would hurt.
 

Axass

Member
They were deliberatily gauging interest for a main that isn't Link or that is female. Now they're going back on it, because they don't want to spoil the surprise. I think we're still getting something unusual out of this.

EDIT: What's with the people saying "of course this of course that" when Aonuma itself started this by saying "nobody said that was Link"? Were we supposed to ignore Aonuma?
 

Red Mage

Member
Not to me, but OK. If Link were wearing the green tunic like this:

tumblr_n70kz1_UUqq1rsdbsvo1_1280.jpg


then the speculation would never have happened.

But Link has worn blue several times. It's usually the mid-level tunic, with the red being the "ultimate" version. Maybe they decided to switch it around so that the iconic green is now the ultimate armor.
 
They were deliberatily gauging interest for a main that isn't Link or that is female. Now they're going back on it, because they don't want to spoil the surprise. I think we're still getting something unusual out of this.
I doubt it's planned. I think Aonuma was genuinely surprised by the excitement for a potential female protagonist and wanted to see to what extent it goes so he decided to test it out even more. Perhaps with this new knowledge he will go back to Japan and either implement this feedback in this or a future game. But so far it doesn't seem very deliberate at all, pretty spontaneous actually.
 

ramyeon

Member
EDIT: What's with the people saying "of course this of course that" when Aonuma itself started this by saying "nobody said that was Link"? Were we supposed to ignore Aonuma?
He said that he meant that in humour and that of course it is Link since, in his words, you can't show off a Zelda game without showing Link.
 

Sciortino

Member
I thought he was going to go along with this for as long as he can but I'm glad he finally clarified everything. I don't mind either way, but it still would've been interesting if we were able to play as a female protagonist.
 
But Link has worn blue several times. It's usually the mid-level tunic, with the red being the "ultimate" version. Maybe they decided to switch it around so that the iconic green is now the ultimate armor.
You're thinking of 2D Zelda. 3D Zelda never had tunic "levels". Water tunic exists but it never looked like this and it would be odd for them to show it now.

It's probably just the starting clothes before the green one, but why does he have fire and ice arrows already?
 

Raitaro

Member
So that means that there were not one but two conventions they should keep, one being dangerous enemies appearing in peaceful environments and the other being that Link is a (even more androgynous than before) male protagonist.

Is it odd that I'm a little bit disappointed at them not breaking with this convention as well? I wouldn't have minded if Link would indeed have been the daughter of (a) male Link and (a) Zelda and would be an amalgamation of sorts of older characters' attributes (bow as one of the main weapons ala Zelda, Ganon's bracelets, fisher village Link's blue clothes, Ocarina Link's Epona, etc.). Or if the player could choose his/her own Link (gender + starting equipment) when starting the game; i.e. have the game allow for a degree of character customisation.

I AM very excited about this new game though, don't get me wrong. Very impressed by the trailer and by the return to classic Zelda's design philosophy instead of another return to the Ocarina template.
 

PlimpyD

Neo Member
Thank god...

EDIT: Maybe I wasnt clear enough; I meant that now all the whining can stop about wether is a girl or not. Some people were just overly reacting and wanted it to be a girl, I mean why care so much? I'm fine if it would have been a girl, and zelda would be a prince, if it was worked out well enough story wise, gameplay wise etc., but ultimately it comes down to the gameplay, graphics music etc.
I guess I just dont understand such a commotion about it being whatever gender.
I am extremely excited for this new iteration. Looks like they will finally adress all the negatives thats plagued this franchise for so long now.
So much this... The whole female protagonist is getting out of control at the moment. I mean it's getting much better, look at games like mass effect and even some of the modern FPS games. It's nearly at the point where every game that doesn't have a female lead has to justify not having a female lead. I think people are taking this issue well and truly out of proportion.
 
They were deliberatily gauging interest for a main that isn't Link or that is female. Now they're going back on it, because they don't want to spoil the surprise. I think we're still getting something unusual out of this.

EDIT: What's with the people saying "of course this of course that" when Aonuma itself started this by saying "nobody said that was Link"? Were we supposed to ignore Aonuma?
No he said it as a joke. It was taken out of context and blown way out of proportion. Did you even read the original comment?
 
"Actually that comment I made jokingly," he said. "It's not that I said that it wasn't Link. It's that I never said that it was Link. It's not really the same thing, but I can understand how it could be taken that way.

I knew it, thats exactly what I said in the other thread.

And as I said, I wouldnt have minded girl link, boy link or any other character that was not link, so Im still ok with this.
But I knew there was going to be people really dissapointed know becuase they were just creating something by themeselves, Ive never though, not one isntant, that the link they showed us was not a boy, it just looked like other androynous links.
Thank god aonuma is not troll sakurai and just went out when things got too crazy and said it plainly so people are not more dissapointed in the future, becuase at more time that passes it becomes worse.
 

Veldin

Member
I don't feel like he confirmed or denied anything here.

It actually makes me think he's saying this because he feels he might've hinted way too much with the "I never said that that was Link" comment.
 

Number_6

Member
Yeah, I know. I'm saying I don't understand why "female Link" was ever discussed in the first place.

His face looked rather feminine in the reveal, even more than usual. Something about the eyes, the jawline, the chin, the mouth, all screamed female to me. I think his face looked a lot like FF13 Lightning's face, before they prettied her up for the sequels. I even showed my fiancee the trailer, and she said that was a girl.

This is not related to the notion that Link = must be a guy, but I always disagree whenever anyone states this. Link has been shown many times as a character of personality and not just a mindless avatar like Gordon Freeman. Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, I'd even argue for OoT and MM... etc etc.

I also think the 'mindless' argument doesn't apply. It's not even relevant. Link is not one character. There are many different Links. Each one can have all the personality in the world, they are still each a different, new character. Under that structure, the next new Link could be female. It'd just be another new distinction for that particular Link.

So it's okay to put down the entire series for the sake of female representation?

That's not how people get their way. That's not how things change and that's not how equality happens. So it's pointless to even go there. Instead of arguing about a pre-established character getting changed to fit something they are not, why not, for the love of god, support the idea of a playable Zelda to stand along side Link? You know a character who is a woman?

A relatable iconic character goes far beyond what some of you guys are saying. Link has always been the most relatable character in any form of medium for me, and he's able to do that without sharing my gender or race, he's simply there to witness a world with me.

You shouldn't go around attacking pre-established characters. You should be promoting new female protagonists who were built for their roles and old female characters who are given better care. Stop trying to shoe-horn the opposite gender on already defined characters.

How is suggesting Link be female 'putting down the entire series' exactly? It's just one game. Would it really ruin the entire series to have one female Link? Or are you saying that people are bashing the old series for having all males? I don't see that here. We're talking about moving forward, not retroactively changing the past games.

Link is not a 'pre-established' character like Mario and Samus. Link is always a totally new character every game! There's always an opportunity for change with every new entry in the series. They have the chance to really play with the legend, have a variety of Links beyond what we've already seen. In a series that has grown quite stale over the years, I see no reason why they couldn't mix things up a bit. I'm not saying they have to mix things up this way. But they absolutely could. Imagine if each Link was wildly different. Different gender, different age, different race, etc. If every reveal of a new entry in the series was totally surprising. I think that'd be pretty cool.
 

Red Mage

Member
You're thinking of 2D Zelda. 3D Zelda never had tunic "levels". Water tunic exists but it never looked like this and it would be odd for them to show it now.

It's probably just the starting clothes before the green one, but why does he have fire and ice arrows already?

In OoT, Water Tunic basically looks like his original clothes, but blue. Goron Tunic is the same, but red. Even in the original, there was the blue ring and red ring. Anyhow, I don't know what you'd consider ALBW, but it has tunic levels, and I consider it "3D."
 
I don't feel like he confirmed or denied anything here.

It actually makes me think he's saying this because he feels he might've hinted way too much with the "I never said that that was Link" comment.
Except for when he said it was Link
"You know, you have to show Link when you create a trailer for a Zelda announcement."
 

Malio

Member
Elves have always been a little light in the loafers. They're gonna need to butch that boy up.

Alternatively, new name; Twink!
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
But Link has worn blue several times. It's usually the mid-level tunic, with the red being the "ultimate" version. Maybe they decided to switch it around so that the iconic green is now the ultimate armor.

Or you could point to Wind Waker where he wore blue before the green.
 

Veldin

Member
Except for when he said it was Link
"You know, you have to show Link when you create a trailer for a Zelda announcement."

He's being purposefully cryptic and could just as easily mean "Link", as in the protagonist. Didn't say anything about gender.
 

-Horizon-

Member
But my point is that this isn't an issue of gender, but people are trying to make it seem like that so they can feel morally superior. It's an issue of change. I don't want to play as a 6 ft 5 300 pound Link with a body builders phisique either, but according to your logic you would be fine with that too. I have no issue playing as that type of character, but I want to do so in a gears of war game not a Zelda one.

It's however the Zelda team sees fit to have the spirit of the hero be. Could've been Groose in Skyward Sword.
The only reason gender was ever brought up is because of how ambiguous the sex of the character shown was. Whether it was for good or bad, this brought in discussion that would never have happened otherwise on what constitutes a Zelda game, what is the Hero's quest really about. Changing an "established icon" is always a dangerous thing, it doesn't mean it's impossible to do or shouldn't be done. It can be bad if just copy, change, and paste. It can be good if they can fundamentally change the story and the dynamics of the main characters for the better and we all know the plot and characters have been mostly on the lite side.
 

Karkador

Banned
Has there been a single Zelda announcement that didn't feature Link?

I'm not contesting that, but the wording of the phrase, as written, just doesn't come off so matter-of-fact; but it's hard to tell since it likely went through a translator and there's no indication of tone or body language.

It feels silly to keep pushing the female angle with so little info (and I'm not that crazy of a Zelda fan to be arguing it, I don't think), but I think it's similarly silly to suddenly take Aonuma at his perceived word now and not for the many other things he has said about shaking things up.
 
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