I don't think Link's a completely blank emotionless slate, certainly each Link has a degree of agency and individuality separate from the player in most recent games. But there's no reason why you couldn't have a female Link that encapsulates the characteristics that make a Link "Link".
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Aonuma: That was Link in the Wii U Zelda trailer, denies 'female' rumors
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truestatic
Member
The difficulty with that is that people already have attachments to game series like Zelda: their art, their world, their gameplay. Zelda is an institution. Most people who want representation don't want representation in some new 'made just for them' game, series and world, they want representation in the games they already love.
In addition, the creation and establishment of new IP, especially those with a female lead, face enormous challenges before they ever arrive on shelves. It's a hard sell to convince people to go find their own IP's to relate to, rather than to make existing ones more relatable, because even if they were willing to do that, it's such a daunting proposition. It's one thing to say "go promote new female protags in new games," it's quite another to find things to match up to the existing juggernauts today.
zackmorris
Member
I don't think it's that at all. I don't think anyone minds playing a female lead. But when I play a Zelda game I want to play as link. Just like when I play a Tomb Raider game I want to play as Lara Croft. It's what defines those games. Stop trying to fabricate ways to sound morally superior.
PdotMichael
Banned
There is also no reason why Link isn't a middle aged man or why he must be anime white.
It's a design choice for over 28 years now.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Yeah, that's how it is now. Look at the number of female lead characters there are in gaming.
No, they were upholding Pokemon as proof that characters can treat your character a certain way regardless of whether they were a boy or a girl before the chracter creation screen. And considering you leave home to go on your adventure. Most people in the game won't know you before the adventure starts.
The backstory stuff you pick in ME's character creation has exactly 0 to do with your physical description and gender, and has very little effect on how people treat you, except for a few simple lines. That stuff is about class and starting bonuses.
And the pokemon example used before works here. It's not like each Link had an extensive backstory. Look at what you (I think it was you) were saying before. he's a slacker that people don't expect to be a hero. That can be the same whether you pick girl or boy.
Tell me something about the beginning of OoT that would have changed dramatically if you'd chosen Girl instead of Boy before the game started. Something so deep that Pokemon couldn't have done it.
As you say above in the ME part, "Zelda is not going to do that."
This is a very good point. Unfortunately it is hindered by history of there having not been other colored humans (elves?) other than the Gerudo. Once solution would be when you pick your character's color, every human's color changes along with it. So they're all the same color. But people won't accept that, even though it affects nobdody but the person playing.
Hyrule already has women and girls, so the female Link walking around won't cause people to scream, "W-what are those bumps, and where is your penis??"
You are over estimating LoZ's depth of character interaction. Most of the game is adventuring and dungeons.
A game with a middle-aged Link could be interesting! Explore how age has taken its toll as a grizzled vet returns to battle once more!
What if Link were a Gerudo? What if we had a game examining the dynamic between such a Link and Ganondorf, and the cultural divide between his people and the Hylians?
I'd be hella down for either of these. Shaking up conventions can be fun and interesting.
MoogleWizard
Member
Link has had more character throughout the games than Samus ever had and I don't see people calling her a 'blank emotionless slate'. And if his gender never mattered I guess I must have imagined things like the engagement to Ruto in OOT and the romance with Zelda in SS.
Im glad its Link, but I wouldnt have cared that much if it wasnt as long as he was playable in some part of the game. And I like how people got a accused of sexism just cause they were relieved it was Link. Hes an iconic character people anticipate playing as, simple as that.
Crazyorloco
Member
Link - links the player to the game world. If you're female it's harder to relate to this world if the link is male. An androgynous link would be fitting. Lots of females do play Zelda.
I can't wait to play this game.
I can't wait to play this game.
You are playing as whoever possesses the spirit of the hero as established in Skyward Sword. That spirit reincarnates continually. It just so happens that all the heroes so far are male, it's not an established rule though.
Lara Croft on the other hand does not have the luxury of being a different character every time (unless it's a reboot, then that opens a whole other can of worms). She has an established back story or at least one they are rebuilding. But she is still the same Lara. She didn't die and her spirit came back as another Lara 100 years later.
I learn something new every day.
He seems to very clearly still see Link as a male.
If that ruins your game experience I am very sorry for you.
It shouldn't.
Minister of the Dog
Member
Do you have anything to add about Link's status as a established character, or are you content with making sarcastic remarks regarding someone's choice for a name in one of almost ten videos that show said status?
PdotMichael
Banned
Well, many things can be interesting. Why can't Link reincernate as large octopus - just imagine the possible gameplay elements!
I mean there is a reason why the hero of a 2 1/2 decade old gaming series is pretty much the same.
And some of us would prefer that the character stay the way it is and not necessarily because of some sex/age/race bias.
Yes, because that is totally the same as my suggestions!
But at the end of the day I guess I can't really be surprised that fans of a Nintendo franchise are terrified of anything ever being slightly different than it has been for over a decade.
Well I thought for sure it was a girl. I guess I stand corrected! The exciting part though is that this means we still haven't seen Zelda yet. Her design is probably awesome.
It is funny to watch the first few pages of this thread play out.
Fans that wanted it to be a woman: "Well that is super disappointing that it's a guy!"
Fans that wanted it to be a man: "Well that's a relief that it's a man!"
The people who said the first are "fine" (ironically), but people are implying the people that said the second are sexist? They are 100% equivalent statements. Is it not sexist to so openly be disappointed that it's a man?
How about we all just assume that no real fans of the Zelda series are sexist here and not start another war over nothing, because Zelda has always had strong female characters that are very cool. People always overreact to these things.
And please, let's not start labeling Nintendo sexist, after all the people that were going on just yesterday about how much they liked the Inklings in Splatoon.
It is funny to watch the first few pages of this thread play out.
Fans that wanted it to be a woman: "Well that is super disappointing that it's a guy!"
Fans that wanted it to be a man: "Well that's a relief that it's a man!"
The people who said the first are "fine" (ironically), but people are implying the people that said the second are sexist? They are 100% equivalent statements. Is it not sexist to so openly be disappointed that it's a man?
How about we all just assume that no real fans of the Zelda series are sexist here and not start another war over nothing, because Zelda has always had strong female characters that are very cool. People always overreact to these things.
And please, let's not start labeling Nintendo sexist, after all the people that were going on just yesterday about how much they liked the Inklings in Splatoon.
thecouncil
Banned
I would have never thought it was anyone other than Link unless the internet told me it wasn't. It looked exactly like Link.
I see people bringing up the reincarnation cycles, but according to canon there are at least two other members of that cycle- Ganon and Zelda. Having been a fan for a while, I've always interpreted this dynamic as the courageous hero coming-of-age, the wise maiden who has untapped magical potential and a cunning villain who relies on brute force and cunning.
Yes, it's an overly romantic interpretation, but I've always seen females in the Zelda series to be wise, omnipotent beings- not just the four goddesses, but Impa, Midna, the female sages and of course Zelda.
Of course, having a female Link might not go against that, one could have a courageous but slightly dimwitted heroine who gets their shit together, but it doesn't fulfill my personal power dynamic of how I see the main characters of the series.
This seems a bit superimposing, but what I'm trying to say is that making Link female doesn't really do anything for me when there are already powerful female characters in the series that they could create or that already exist (god I would LOVE an Impa game) and that's why I'm hyped for Hyrule Warriors, but changing the gender of an established character for the sake of change seems silly to me.
I'm totally for a Zelda game with a female lead, and I despise the portrayals of females in video games in general, but changing Link is just... pointless. My dream Zelda game is still one where you can play as Hylia with magic powers before Skyward Sword.
But being that I'm a 16 year old teenage male my opinion probably doesn't bear much in this discussion.
Actually I realize that I'm coming off as a bit sexist with my "interpretation of females" in the Zelda series, there could definitely be a female character who goes against that and I'd love it, I just care little for Link's gender changing for little reason.
Yes, it's an overly romantic interpretation, but I've always seen females in the Zelda series to be wise, omnipotent beings- not just the four goddesses, but Impa, Midna, the female sages and of course Zelda.
Of course, having a female Link might not go against that, one could have a courageous but slightly dimwitted heroine who gets their shit together, but it doesn't fulfill my personal power dynamic of how I see the main characters of the series.
This seems a bit superimposing, but what I'm trying to say is that making Link female doesn't really do anything for me when there are already powerful female characters in the series that they could create or that already exist (god I would LOVE an Impa game) and that's why I'm hyped for Hyrule Warriors, but changing the gender of an established character for the sake of change seems silly to me.
I'm totally for a Zelda game with a female lead, and I despise the portrayals of females in video games in general, but changing Link is just... pointless. My dream Zelda game is still one where you can play as Hylia with magic powers before Skyward Sword.
But being that I'm a 16 year old teenage male my opinion probably doesn't bear much in this discussion.
Actually I realize that I'm coming off as a bit sexist with my "interpretation of females" in the Zelda series, there could definitely be a female character who goes against that and I'd love it, I just care little for Link's gender changing for little reason.
with added interrogation sequences involving tentacles and the touch pad
Admiral Woofington
Member
Don't do this to yourself. There was too much reading into a vague comment and when he basically says "I didn't mean for it to be taken as now it's a she, it still is Link" you guys are now reading too little into his direct words. This selective reading is going to harm you, though like I said stage 1 denial so if it helps I guess no harm done. You gotta understand this is an established franchise with am established character. Japan is all about keeping tradition with stuff like this. Not to say that a spin off won't happen. There is a Super Princess Peach I mean.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah.
PdotMichael
Banned
Scott is an insert, despite your attempts at establishing otherwise.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I didn't say to not criticize it. I said not to try and change what they're making. That's like protesting because someone you don't like was cast in a movie that hasn't come out yet. Or looking over someones shoulder while they're painting, and saying "I don't like that, paint it this way". I'm all for healthy criticism. I'm also all for creative freedom though.
Let the devs do whatever they want. It's their painting.
TheGoddamn
Member
That ambiguity has been cleared up, at least, for which I'm glad. The possibility of playing as someone else hasn't been ruled out entirely, though-- hasn't Aonuma hinted at multiplayer? Shaking up the franchise isn't necessarily limited to making the game open-world.
It isn't just males who can have relationships with females, you know.
It isn't just males who can have relationships with females, you know.
Crazyorloco
Member
It definitely wouldnt. we've played as a male link for 28 years (all great games). The idea of a change for the main character was intriguing though. Or even the thought of playing through Zelda perspective would be nice.
P.s. saying he doesn't want to define link (even though he said "him") makes me think he doesn't want to say whether or not he's male or female...he wants all players male or female to relate to link.
MoogleWizard
Member
No, I didn't know that and that's exactly what I said...
……forgetit
Member
I'd say it depends on the story they wanted to tell, for example the story of skyward sword, specifically relating to link and groose's relationship wouldn't work if link was a girl. Gender is 100% part of the characters identity and there are very few Zelda games where link being a boy isn't important.
Admiral Woofington
Member
It isn't just random neogaf members that can make snarky comments you know? Let me tell you something obvious while I look down on you.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Whatever, either way is fine anyway.
Onikaan
Member
Thank you. We're all friends here.
Not really fair in general since there is very poor/rare representation for women and not the opposite. :/
Same goes for a lot of stuff like ageism, racism, and sexual-orientation. One is allowed to be more upset due to poor representation and generations of bad...stuff.
zackmorris
Member
Who all happen to look and act incredibly similair.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Will he still have a sword in the new game? I couldnt see it in the trailer but it looked like there might have been a sword on eponas side in the trailer, but might have been something else. Even in HD its hard to see clearly
Onikaan
Member
Right but if you had called him Amy, it would have been a male Link with a girls name.
He is referred to as such through out the game.
"Boy"
"Young man"
SweetDonuts
Member
Good, it was obvious that was Link.
The determination of some people to change an established character is absurd.
The determination of some people to change an established character is absurd.
Deadpool_X
Banned
Well, I guess Nintendo just needs to Rule 63 all of their characters because the Internet demands it.
Admiral Woofington
Member
But the other party has to be judged because they don't want an established franchise to change its character so it automatically means they are against all of the other stuff?
You know this wouldn't be an issue if Nintendo simply made a new franchise with a female character. None of this would matter. Same with the doctor who complaints. If people are used to a male doctor who why change it? Just make a new franchise with a female star, it doesn't necessarily mean they are sexist.
TheGoddamn
Member
I apologize for the snark. I probably misread your intent. I should clarify-- if the option to play as a female player character was in OoT and SS, those storylines you mentioned would have still been valid.
it's there, on the opposite side of the horse as the shield. you can only see it in screen grabs really.
That is not my point. Each one has lived and died. They were each successively replaced by a new hero. Said hero is not required nor bound by gender.
Say whatever is your opinion about the timeline but it shows that each Link is their own person.
I never want Link to swap genders.
But a Zelda featuring Zelda as the star was actually pretty exciting. Can still happen I think.