Support NeoGAF

[Captain Glanton]

We should try to guess the next Zelda gimmick. I say mirror dimension.

I think the next Zelda gimmick will be light v. dark worlds. Because Nintendo hasn't quite beaten the life out of that yet.

What's sad is that that isn't really sarcastic. N seems to believe [judging by the number of light v dark games they've made recently] that it's still a viable game design mechanic. I swear, Zelda is to me the most vibrant franchise out there, with the most potential for an amazing game, and N is determined to drive it into the ground with repetitive, soulless content [Midna excepted; I love you Midna!].

If you find it easy why not do the three heart challenge? I think the reason why it has become easy for GAF is because most of us have played the same style of Zelda time and time again. For first time players it's probably a moderate challenge, this is why the game needs to stay at the same difficulty.

If they changed the heart of the game enough we wouldn't find it so easy because it simply wouldn't be so familiar.

Everyone hates sidequests.

I can speak to this. TP was my very first 3D Zelda, and I found it to be one of the easiest games I've ever played--and consequently the most boring [except some of the puzzles], because every single fight or 'challenge' felt like a delaying tactic by the game. It took a second to see how to get past something and much, much longer to do it.

The exception to this would be the Sea Tentacle boss. I forgot about Z-Targeting, because it was about 3am. The Sea Tentacle boss without Z-Targeting was hard.

 

[birdman]

What Zelda needs

PORTALS!

I think every game could be improved and made even more awesome with this implementation.

 

[firex]

They have to shake up the formula, and for me, stylus controls didn't help any. Actually, they made it worse. I think they should make a huge departure in the gameplay/puzzles in the next Zelda. Use a new set of items instead of giving us the bow/boomerang/bombs etc. again. I do think the core swordfighting mechanics work, even in PH, but we need a vastly different set of items, and bosses that are beatable through 2-3 different strategies instead of a gimmick relying upon the dungeon's treasure. I think the last Zelda I really enjoyed was Wind Waker, and even that one has lots of flaws like the stealth part and the triforce hunt. Getting the triforce charts was fun in WW because of how each one was a clever, creative little mini-dungeon of some sort, but the stupid digging/grabbing for them was annoying. Anyway, I think they should drastically change the formula by giving us an entirely new set of items and stuff. It's probably why Majora's Mask is fun - you have basic Zelda gameplay, but the masks open up stuff so much more than the typical Zelda fare we've been inundated with since LTTP.

 

[Ranger X]

We never really had a remake, i would gladly buy a full fledged remake of A Link To The Part. Especially since it's my favorite game of the series so far!

 

[Johnas]

I like a remake if a game could really use it, and I don't think LttP does. I would, however, really be interested in seeing some kind of 3D Oracles remakes. OoA wouldn't need a whole lot of tweaking, Seasons would need more of an overhaul in the process to make it more challenging.

Besides being great games, I imagine these two were overlooked by a majority of gamers.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Aonuma's innovations for the next Zelda:

- Make throwing and grabbing motions to use hookshot.
- Light and dark worlds have light and dark worlds of their own. Double-light! Double-dark!
- Opening tutorial now 10 hours. Link has forgotten how to talk, so use your DS to teach him!

 

[Amir0x]

- Opening tutorial now 10 hours. Link has forgotten how to talk, so use your DS to teach him!

:lol

 

[CassSept]

A lot.

Spoiler

and they were right

Spoiler

No they werent

I want next Zelda to be something more like MM, in which almost every single NPC was used in some way. I was hugely disappointed by mass of people in TP to which you couldnt even talk :/
Also, ending should be as epic as TWW. Best ending ever. Ganondorf just pwned.

 

[radcliff]

They really should let Aonuma take a breather and let Takashi Tezuka direct.
He hasn't directed a game since Yoshi's Island.
Mario 3, Mario World, Zelda 3 and Zelda 4 were all directed by him, you cannot go wrong.

If he did that, he would be giving himself a demotion. He, along with Shigeru Miyamoto, already oversee development of all EAD games as General Manager (Miyamoto) and Deputy Manager (Tezuka).

As for the idea of EAD Tokyo making a Zelda game. I suppose it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Yoshiaki Koizumi of EAD Tokyo was one of the directors of Zelda: OOT.

However, Aonuma (who said prior to TP that he wanted to take a break from Zelda) has recently said the PH rejuvenated him and has a lot of ideas for the next Zelda. So it looks like that at least the next Zelda game will be from him.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I really hope they will make another epic Zelda game à la OoT or TP, but again with a whole new style.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I want the next Zelda to be something NEW. A remake is fine and all, but a new experience is always best.

 

[speedpop]

Nintendo should go the Link's Awakening & Majora's Mask route and stay clear of Hyrule for the next game. Whilst we all have our adorations for LttP, OoT and the rest.. many of us still have soft spots for the Legend of Zelda games that didn't even contain Zelda in the first place.

I suppose it allows the teams a bit more freedom without having to retell the same damn mythology over and over and stops them getting pegged into the whole Triforce thing.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

But the next Zelda should be depeloped by another studio, otherwise we'll see only small changes, and not a true revolution in the series.

MONOLITH SOFT?

 

[The Elite]

Yeah. Imagine how dramatic and cool it would be to see Link pull the Master Sword out of the stone in 3D. Or imagine how the hookshot would work in 3D! Oh man, how challenging would it be to try to reflect shots back at a boss in 3D?

I see what you did there... and I agree.

 

[Mak]

I would like to see a remake of The Legend of Zelda 1. Something along the lines of the BS Satelite remake would be awesome for DS or Wii Ware. Back to the basics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJLA4R_4Lsw

I think it'd have to be made by fans of the original game, as Aonuma has said he's never been able to get through the first game.

I really enjoyed The Minish Cap, and was the last Zelda game I really enjoyed since playing Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. I think that's the result of another developer making The Minish Cap, Capcom, so they have their own vision of Zelda, and are probably fans of the older games.

I'm looking forward to Super Mario Galaxy, and I think it'll be interesting to see since its been made by a new and young team, EAD Tokyo.

 

[NeonZ]

I don't think the series need many changes, besides more side-quests and better prizes for completing them. Changing the series too radically might make it a completely different game, which might not appeal to fans of the old style, and, if the new style is successful, it might mean many years without games in the classic mold of the series.

However, I would like to see serious spin offs of the Zelda games, like a full fledged RPG or a SRPG.with Zelda races and locations.

 

[citrus lump]

I'd like Nintendo to try the Franchise as a trilogy. Have Link age over the course of three games, perhaps similar to the way Anakin Skywalker aged over the new Star Wars trilogy. Start him off as a child/young adult and have the series get progressiely darker with each game.

I think alot of new stuff could be explored over the course of a trilogy. Link/Zelda marriage? Maybe a son to carry on the legacy of the Hyrulian hero? Maybe introduce a villian so evil we get a Link/Gannon team up? Perhaps even a playable Gannon?

As far as a LTTP remake, give it to a smaller team to stick on Wiiware.

 

[Jirotrom]

:lol Excuse me? They've been remaking it for 15 years.

pretty much

 

[PhoenixDark]

Imagine if Nintendo made Miyamoto "the Mario guy" like they've made Aonuma "the Zelda guy" now. So stupid

 

[SantaC]

looking back I am really annoyed that TP got such high review scores. It doesnt deserve 9 or 10s; I would say 8 is a fair score for that game, but I wish Aonuma took the criticism and changed things around next time. Very doubtful though.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

looking back I am really annoyed that TP got such high review scores. It doesnt deserve 9 or 10s; I would say 8 is a fair score for that game, but I wish Aonuma took the criticism and changed things around next time. Very doubtful though.

And that's really the heart of it. If the games keep getting 9+ aggregates from reviewers, sell millions, win game of the year awards and nominations, how will Nintendo ever know they're doing anything wrong? Moreover, why should they care?

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Forget A Link to the Past, do Link's Awakening. Much more potential with that title such as memorable moments and it actually has a better story too if you ask me.

 

[Tristam]

And that's really the heart of it. If the games keep getting 9+ aggregates from reviewers, sell millions, win game of the year awards and nominations, how will Nintendo ever know they're doing anything wrong? Moreover, why should they care?

Well I think designers often know when their product is less-than-stellar. Aonuma's interview with GI spoke volumes about his opinion of the game: when asked about how he felt about the overall product, he said something like, "Well, I'm glad it sold well in North America at least..." Twilight Princess was the definition of fanservice -- the blueprint began as little more than an Ocarina of Time remake with a "mature style" to appeal to the tastes of North American gamers, and later on they added the light world/dark world and wolf mechanic (one of the worst aspects in the game) to give the game identity (although the light world/dark world was already done in LTTP and transformation done in MM). TP simply didn't have any central theme or focus behind it, really.

 

[Jirotrom]

Well I think designers often know when their product is less-than-stellar. Aonuma's interview with GI spoke volumes about his opinion of the game: when asked about how he felt about the overall product, he said something like, "Well, I'm glad it sold well in North America at least..." Twilight Princess was the definition of fanservice -- the blueprint began as little more than an Ocarina of Time remake with a "mature style" to appeal to the tastes of North American gamers, and later on they added a wolf mechanic (one of the worst aspects in the game) to give the game identity. TP simply didn't have any central theme or focus behind it, really.

Which is why I don't understand why people are so pissed with it, we knew it was a fan-service game. Thats what all those Zelda fans cried for when Wind-waker was released, now they want Wind-waker back:lol

 

[GeneralIroh]

Wind Waker is the best Zelda.

If you like zelda with bad pacing,boring gameplay and cut up level design then yes.

Getting the triforce charts was fun in WW because of how each one was a clever, creative little mini-dungeon of some sort,

If by clever and creative you mean shallow and boring then yes.

looking back I am really annoyed that TP got such high review scores. It doesnt deserve 9 or 10s; I would say 8 is a fair score for that game, but I wish Aonuma took the criticism and changed things around next time. Very doubtful though.

TWW should've gotten a 7 for its bad pacing and lack of length or difficulty. TP deservers a 9/10 more so than TWW.

later on they added the light world/dark world and wolf mechanic (one of the worst aspects in the game)

Yet it was still a thousand times better than the god awful sailing and wind changing mechanic.

 

[beef3483]

Which is why I don't understand why people are so pissed with it, we knew it was a fan-service game. Thats what all those Zelda fans cried for when Wind-waker was released, now they want Wind-waker back:lol

This is why Nintendo shouldn't listen to the fans and just let thier own creativity guide them.

 

[Amir0x]

This is why Nintendo shouldn't listen to the fans and just let thier own creativity guide them.

They did that for Phantom Hourglass. They failed.

 

[Tristam]

Which is why I don't understand why people are so pissed with it, we knew it was a fan-service game. Thats what all those Zelda fans cried for when Wind-waker was released, now they want Wind-waker back:lol

The thing I don't understand is why everyone wanted a "refined, perfected" OOT. WW *was* a refined, perfected OOT. By the standards of the OOT formula, the combat and camera were both perfect. And WW still had the edge over TP in terms of interactivity -- you could pick up nearly anything an enemy dropped and do *something* with it.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Well, after Mario Galaxy, EAD Tokyo could get a shot at Zelda.

Just a thought.

 

[herod]

I'd prefer if they made OoT, MM and TP in 2.5D.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, after Mario Galaxy, EAD Tokyo could get a shot at Zelda.

Just a thought.

They should get a shot at an new IP without already established and abused Nintendo characters. Just a thought!

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

They should get a shot at an new IP without already established and abused Nintendo characters. Just a thought!

Yeah, I'd like that more.

But if I had to have ANY studio other than Aonuma's team making a Zelda, it'd be EAD Tokyo.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

I don't think the series need many changes, besides more side-quests and better prizes for completing them. Changing the series too radically might make it a completely different game, which might not appeal to fans of the old style, and, if the new style is successful, it might mean many years without games in the classic mold of the series.

However, I would like to see serious spin offs of the Zelda games, like a full fledged RPG or a SRPG.with Zelda races and locations.

Christ, there's a dozen "classic" Zeldas. Play them. They can't all be fresh in your mind.

 

[Amir0x]

i say

the whole reason this keeps happening, is because fans keep desiring another and another and another. They're never satisfied. You sorta run out of ideas after a while, especially when you've already provided so many classics in these franchises.

Let them take a long break... I'd even say a generational break... and allow each of these most talented Nintendo teams to establish brand new IPs that we can cherish for years to come. I think this will foster everything people want - revolutions, genuine freshness, quality gameplay without the repetitiveness of a common theme, etc.

These franchises don't need to die, just a hiatus. I think it'd do good for the Nintendo brand.

 

[Jirotrom]

They should get a shot at an new IP without already established and abused Nintendo characters. Just a thought!

whether its a new ip or not I could careless, this is only due to SMG and how its changed my view of Nintendo. I just want really inventive awesome gameplay from them.

 

[Amir0x]

Well I care. We need totally new ideas, not the restrictions of these old franchises. This will open up so much, believe me when I say there's a fuckton of considerations to be made when using these franchises even if it's to whore them out in other genres like sports.

Start new, start fresh. That's when the really great ideas will begin to come.

 

[Tristam]

i say

the whole reason this keeps happening, is because fans keep desiring another and another and another. They're never satisfied. You sorta run out of ideas after a while, especially when you've already provided so many classics in these franchises.

Let them take a long break... I'd even say a generational break... and allow each of these most talented Nintendo teams to establish brand new IPs that we can cherish for years to come. I think this will foster everything people want - revolutions, genuine freshness, quality gameplay without the repetitiveness of a common theme, etc.

These franchises don't need to die, just a hiatus. I think it'd do good for the Nintendo brand.

Probably for the best. I never thought I'd say it, but I'm not particularly excited at the prospect of another Zelda.

 

[GeneralIroh]

The thing I don't understand is why everyone wanted a "refined, perfected" OOT. WW *was* a refined, perfected OOT. By the standards of the OOT formula, the combat and camera were both perfect. And WW still had the edge over TP in terms of interactivity -- you could pick up nearly anything an enemy dropped and do *something* with it.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
It failed in refining the pacing. In fact it ripped out all the good parts and injected it with one of the worst mechanics.

 

[citrus lump]

Well I care. We need totally new ideas, not the restrictions of these old franchises. This will open up so much, believe me when I say there's a fuckton of considerations to be made when using these franchises even if it's to whore them out in other genres like sports.

Start new, start fresh. That's when the really great ideas will begin to come.

I don't think Galaxy would be any better with a new lead character or themes.

 

[Timbuktu]

These franchises don't need to die, just a hiatus. I think it'd do good for the Nintendo brand.

Yes, there does seem to have been an overload of Zelda games in the last few years, especially with the Mario platformers, where we only had two a decade and no one really complained.

 

[Amir0x]

Probably for the best. I never thought I'd say it, but I'm not particularly excited at the prospect of another Zelda.

i'll probably be excited when i see it, it's hard not to love Zelda, but like anything sometimes some hard love is needed. Nintendo wants this image that they're introducing all this new to the market, but at the same time they're so reliant on these ancient crusty franchises that they are seemingly afraid to let go all the way. These franchises still have tons of life in them if sales are to be believed, but let these teams just have a free pass to INVENT. I mean, have they not earned it? Team Zelda and EAD Tokyo have already created some of the best games of all time. Put some trust in them, give them good leadership and let them create.

I don't think Galaxy would be any better with a new lead character or themes.

I do, but that's not the point anyway. The point is there are inherent restrictions when creating a platformer with the "Mario" name, or any genre with the Mario franchise. Just as there is with the Zelda one, or the Metroid one. Whatever. Certain aesthetic qualities, characters that must return, even power ups that can be recycled. If you think Super Mario Galaxy shares nothing in common with the past Mario games, you'd be wrong. While it's a super inventive game, and it's incredible, it still clear where they had to follow the Mario path because it's a Mario game.

I'm not saying whatever new idea would be inherently better, I'm saying that if you allow these new ideas to foster and don't have ANY restrictions upon them, that's when the real classics are gonna flow and you're going to get people a lot more happy when they finally do revisit the classic franchises of Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc. That's when you're gonna justify your revolution. Taking a break is a GOOD thing, and can only help revitalize the Nintendo brand as well as the classic Nintendo franchises.

 

[Tristam]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
It failed in refining the pacing. In fact it ripped out all the good parts and injected it with one of the worst mechanics.

Sure it failed with the pacing, but TP stumbled even harder. You spend the first three hours of the game being taught how to move the joystick and other elementary controls and the next two coaxing a fucking cat back to a shop. Then the real fun begins -- the most boring three dungeons of any Zelda yet await you!

It's a good thing the second half of the game offers some redeeming value.

 

[SantaC]

These franchises don't need to die, just a hiatus. I think it'd do good for the Nintendo brand.

Zelda doesn't need a hiatus. It needs EAD Tokyo, because they're amazing. They're the new Intelligent Systems for this generation.

Galaxy is the best Nintendo game in many many years and deserve the great reviews.

 

[Amir0x]

nah it pretty much needs a break

 

[Jiggy]

You know, I thought that (just by secondhand accounts) Phantom Hourglass was the incarnation of everything I didn't want to happen to Zelda, but I guess not. One thing remained, and that's the idea of converting excellent classic 2D Zelda into full 3D gameplay, effectively killing off the original for a new generation. This 3D LttP remake better never come to pass.

 

[Jirotrom]

I do, but that's not the point anyway. The point is there are inherent restrictions when creating a platformer with the "Mario" name, or any genre with the Mario franchise. Just as there is with the Zelda one, or the Metroid one. Whatever. Certain aesthetic qualities, characters that must return, even power ups that can be recycled. If you think Super Mario Galaxy shares nothing in common with the past Mario games, you'd be wrong. While it's a super inventive game, and it's incredible, it still clear where they had to follow the Mario path because it's a Mario game.

I'm not saying whatever new idea would be inherently better, I'm saying that if you allow these new ideas to foster and don't have ANY restrictions upon them, that's when the real classics are gonna flow and you're going to get people a lot more happy when they finally do revisit the classic franchises of Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc. That's when you're gonna justify your revolution. Taking a break is a GOOD thing, and can only help revitalize the Nintendo brand as well as the classic Nintendo franchises.

I think the point he was trying to make is that the games retroness( for lack of a better word) adds alot to the enjoyment. I'm enclined to agree, alot of the draw to that game for me is that it makes me fell like a kid again playing a brand new mario. I'm eager to see the new worlds and to see all the old stuff that have returned.

 

[davepoobond]

i would want a 3d remake of Link's Awakening. and then you can bone Marlon. she was begging for it.

 

[GeneralIroh]

Sure it failed with the pacing, but TP stumbled even harder. You spend the first three hours of the game being taught how to move the joystick and other elementary controls and the next two coaxing a fucking cat back to a shop. Then the real fun begins -- the most boring three dungeons of any Zelda yet await you!

It's a good thing the second half of the game offers some redeeming value.

No it didnt. The whole cat and joystick thing ended quickly unlike the triforce quest that took up half of the game's length. Besides, TWW had a similar boring begining. The stealth stealth section was rubbish. The triforce quest takes much longer.
The first 3 dungeons in TP are much better than 90% of the dungeons of TWW.

This is how the pacing is like in TWW

good ------> bad


TP
bad ------> good

This is how good pacing should be designed. It should get better the more you play not worse.

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah Zelda needs a break. TP made me full and PH is going to make me fuller.

The time left in hiatus can be spent coming up with NEW ideas.

Eiji Aonuma needs experience in other genres. Isn't he supposedly one of Miyamoto's successors?

 

[GeneralIroh]

Yeah Zelda needs a break. TP made me full and PH is going to make me fuller.

The time left in hiatus can be spent coming up with NEW ideas.

Eiji Aonuma needs experience in other genres. Isn't he supposedly one of Miyamoto's successors?

Hopefully he stays away from stealth. Man was that part boring in TWW.