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"Aonuma want to make a remake of A Link to the Past" and more about next Zelda on Wii

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Tristam said:
The Megaman formula was fine, but the series became unbelievably stale; so many iterations had passed that it was only a matter of time before you faced off against "Rainy Turtloid" (I'm not making that one up).

I don't think the issue with Megaman was that it got stale. The series seemed to be doing well til X6, and that's when most of the people I knew started complaining, but that's cause of the way it was designed more than anything. It continued with X7, and by the time X8 came out, people stopped caring. It didn't help that Capcom ran the series into the ground either.

Sharp said:
What is up with all the OoT bashing on GAF? Anyway, I'm just glad to know that Aonuma's working on a new Zelda, remake or otherwise, because it's one of my favorite series and more is always welcome! Though honestly "more of the same" would be fine with me, and I'm not not sure why he feels like he needs to change up the formula, but I guess GAF believes that too now so yeah.

We are brothers, alone in our fight. (well at least on GAF :p )
 

Odrion

Banned
A Link to the Snitch said:
NO

The only futuristic Zeldaness I ever could ever even vaguely think of would be something FROM the future somehow entering present day Zelda.
try to think of a futuristic zelda that isn't gears of war or mass effect themed
 
Oblivion said:
I don't think the issue with Megaman was that it got stale. The series seemed to be doing well til X6, and that's when most of the people I knew started complaining, but that's cause of the way it was designed more than anything. It continued with X7, and by the time X8 came out, people stopped caring. It didn't help that Capcom ran the series into the ground either.

I love Mega Man, or used to, and I thought it got stale during the NES games. They were all quality products but it felt so uninspired in 5 and 6.

Pure Capcom: take a great idea, overexpose it until people tire of it, and then come out with something new and brilliant. Repeat.

A Link to the Snitch said:
I'm not one to say "no more Zelda games," but I'm crossing the line - a futuristic Zelda game? Why not just make a brand new IP?

CAUSE THIS IS NINTENDO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ROFFLE

People: a futuristic Zelda? Really?
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
"futuristic zelda" makes the idea sound more extreme than it actually is. it would just be a way to heighten the impact of stumbling into that first dungeon by further distancing the settings. at that point, rather than being in a setting where--yes, of course--clandestine dungeons and secret bombable rock walls obviously make sense, you're in a setting where finding something is actually wholly unusual. you're not finding something rote or just going through the motions, at least aesthetically, at that point: you're actually adventuring.

that's not to say it's the only way to make some interesting changes to the series, but i've talked at length about a less guided approach to the initial start of the quest, and making it much less obvious that there should be any dungeon crawling or hero-ing of any kind. those things should be found just by poking around--not because some dopey owl tells you there's a weird cave over that-a-way where you might find a crystal that may or may not build a rainbow bridge eventually
 
But it'd be pointless.

Make a new game FFS, I don't see the point in slapping the Zelda label on something so insanely different. What, having Link riding around in a robot and with a laser sword?

I would so much rather that EAD focus on a brand new game. Not what I described above, something more semi-futuristic (so it feels different from Metroid).
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
A Link to the Snitch said:
Make a new game FFS, I don't see the point in slapping the Zelda label on something so insanely different. What, having Link riding around in a robot and with a laser sword?

no. the mechanics of the game, in that scenario, would be essentially unchanged. there would still be swords, arrows, etc., there would just be a bigger shock and sense of secrecy between what you know as "home" or the overworld, and that which could be qualified as dungeons. i don't necessarily think taking it as futuristic as your laser sword comment implies is the answer, but certainly there's something more interesting about more modern civilizations finding something long buried and lost than what's there now
 

turk128

Member
Instead of dictating what the next Zelda should be, I'll just go with what it shouldn't be:

*Whatever style they decide to go with, I hope to Jebus it ain't realistic style designs. That's just F'N lazy.

*If they are going to introduce technology, stay clear of Final Fantasy-ish designs.

*No change for change's sake.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I do think the consensus is that they should take some time off from the series (5 years). Make us value what we've taken for granted.

My idea:
1. Multiple character perspectives and missions. (play as the Princess, play as different Characters)
2. Ganon as the hero with some horrific ending showing why he became evil
 
beelzebozo said:
"futuristic zelda" makes the idea sound more extreme than it actually is. it would just be a way to heighten the impact of stumbling into that first dungeon by further distancing the settings. at that point, rather than being in a setting where--yes, of course--clandestine dungeons and secret bombable rock walls obviously make sense, you're in a setting where finding something is actually wholly unusual. you're not finding something rote or just going through the motions, at least aesthetically, at that point: you're actually adventuring.

I see what you're getting at now. Reminds me of how freaked out I got about Aria of Sorrow's setting. "Oh god it's gonna be laser whips and plasma bombs and cyber crosses and neon everywhere. Why Konami, why?!" But that was handled very well. Similarly, Dragon Quarter ended up being a pleasant, if flawed, surprise (though hopefully it's just a temporary change of pace.)

Zelda has never been afraid to make drastic changes that most bigger franchises wouldn't dream of, despite the very similar core gameplay in each game, so it could obviously work. I think the series just needs a Majora's Mask-type diversion or two to let the classic formula rest for a while.

that's not to say it's the only way to make some interesting changes to the series, but i've talked at length about a less guided approach to the initial start of the quest, and making it much less obvious that there should be any dungeon crawling or hero-ing of any kind. those things should be found just by poking around--not because some dopey owl tells you there's a weird cave over that-a-way where you might find a crystal that may or may not build a rainbow bridge eventually

I think this is where Miyamoto's game creation philosophy can cause some trouble, because he's very concerned with players not getting lost and frustrated. The long introductory section to TP (which, sadly, I haven't played yet) was his idea and I haven't heard anyone say they liked it.

PantherLotus said:
I do think the consensus is that they should take some time off from the series (5 years). Make us value what we've taken for granted.

Absolutely. That would be even better than a MM-type game.

Also, no more farming out Zelda games to other developers. Capcom did a fine job but seriously, no more please.

My idea:
1. Multiple character perspectives and missions. (play as the Princess, play as different Characters)
2. Ganon as the hero with some horrific ending showing why he became evil

A Ganondorf sidestory would be really cool, if it played much differently from the main games in the series.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
An entire game in this style plz:

Versus_Ganon_by_MathieuBeaulieu.jpg
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
Night_Trekker said:
Zelda has never been afraid to make drastic changes that most bigger franchises wouldn't dream of, despite the very similar core gameplay in each game, so it could obviously work. I think the series just needs a Majora's Mask-type diversion or two to let the classic formula rest for a while.

agreed. actually i think the idea of real-time events and repeating days wouldn't be a bad one to revisit at this point. it would give them an opportunity to pay homage to m.m., refine that idea into something sharper and more manageable, while simultaneously refreshing everyone's palate
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
how about link as an old geezer, and he has to teach his four different children (WHO'S THE MOTHER YOU'LL ASK RIGHT?), all of which have different special abilities, how to become the HERO.
 
PantherLotus said:
how about link as an old geezer, and he has to teach his four different children (WHO'S THE MOTHER YOU'LL ASK RIGHT?), all of which have different special abilities, how to become the HERO.

FOUR SWORDS PREQUEL OMFG
 

Dolphin

Banned
PantherLotus said:
too kiddy for ya? don't be fucking silly. it's the black lines that make the whole style.
No, the black lines are what makes the style fall flat. With the lines it's just like every other cell shaded game, just more sparse. Also, in motion the black lines would look awkward.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Night_Trekker said:
I see what you're getting at now. Reminds me of how freaked out I got about Aria of Sorrow's setting. "Oh god it's gonna be laser whips and plasma bombs and cyber crosses and neon everywhere. Why Konami, why?!" But that was handled very well. Similarly, Dragon Quarter ended up being a pleasant, if flawed, surprise (though hopefully it's just a temporary change of pace.)

Zelda has never been afraid to make drastic changes that most bigger franchises wouldn't dream of, despite the very similar core gameplay in each game, so it could obviously work. I think the series just needs a Majora's Mask-type diversion or two to let the classic formula rest for a while.



I think this is where Miyamoto's game creation philosophy can cause some trouble, because he's very concerned with players not getting lost and frustrated. The long introductory section to TP (which, sadly, I haven't played yet) was his idea and I haven't heard anyone say they liked it.

That introductory sequence wasn't his idea. And what you said goes against his idea for the original Zelda. He wanted to make a game that required players to think deeply. I'll see if I can find that snippet..
 

Dolphin

Banned
PantherLotus said:
too kiddy for ya? don't be fucking silly. it's the black lines that make the whole style.
8g3q2w3.jpg

Without, the bull comes across a lot more powerfully. He has weight in the background, rather than standing out. Good background design and color can make a much stronger impression than with outlines. And whenever anything moved in 3D with lines, the lines would look like strange silhouettes around the characters. Without them the art style holds its own very well.
 

Tristam

Member
I like that style PantherLotus, although obviously the background wouldn't be exclusively brown all the time. ;p

Since we're on the subject of style in Zelda and since this topic is more relevant than any I've posted the pic in, here's my favorite Link design:

Link_LOZ_with_items.png


I always thought it'd be cool if most of Link's items showed up on his person as you collected them. Of course, that would make rolling seem a little silly when Link has a ladder on his back, but he already rolls just fine with a sword/scabbard and shield...
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
Tristam said:
I always thought it'd be cool if most of Link's items showed up on his person as you collected them. Of course, that would make rolling seem a little silly when Link has a ladder on his back, but he already rolls just fine with a sword/scabbard and shield...

replace the ladder with a grappling hook, like in wind waker. when looped and hanging on his belt, stays safely out of the way and looks like a nice graphical detail. problem solved
 
Oblivion said:
That introductory sequence wasn't his idea. And what you said goes against his idea for the original Zelda. He wanted to make a game that required players to think deeply. I'll see if I can find that snippet..

I'm talking about the gradual introduction to the controls, which (I thought) was expanded on his suggestion, according to one of the "Iwata Asks" interviews.

FAKE EDIT: From this section of the interview:

Kyogoku The reason we had to change things boils down to the fact that in the first village, there were a lot of things particular to the GameCube version. This meant that there were many aspects of the Wii version that did not take into consideration the fact that players wouldn't be familiar with the game itself or the Wii Remote. Because of this, and I think this again goes back to what Iwata-san just referred to as "ideas born from functionality", there were still a huge number of things that needed to be communicated to the player at the beginning of the game so they would be able to enjoy playing it on Wii. At first, the idea was that the player would spend one day in the village, but out of the blue it was decided to make it three days. We got a sheet of paper with a specification plan written on it, a kind of "Miyamoto-san's Three-Day Plan"...

Again, I haven't played TP yet so I don't know if that's how it ended up.
 

Dolphin

Banned
turk128 said:
Dolphin's right, thou: the style will work fine without the lines. (GeneralIroh's gonna hate it regardless :D)
I think it could actually be really great. Like this even:
6ktl00h.jpg

I would play it.
8fnnaqt.jpg

In most cases outlines just make the characters look awkward.
 

Tristam

Member
beelzebozo said:
replace the ladder with a grappling hook, like in wind waker. when looped and hanging on his belt, stays safely out of the way and looks like a nice graphical detail. problem solved

Heh, the grappling hook from Wind Waker is still my favorite item from any Zelda game, ever. I never, ever got tired of the animation of the rope swinging around a branch and hearing the rope whistle, a whistle followed by a satisfying thunk when the grapple claw embedded itself in the wood. It made spelunking a joy. The ability to swing in any direction and climb up and down the rope was also sweet.
 

Dolphin

Banned
Tristam said:
Heh, the grappling hook from Wind Waker is still my favorite item from any Zelda game, ever. I never, ever got tired of the animation of the rope swinging around a branch and hearing the rope whistle, a whistle followed by a satisfying thunk when the grapple claw embedded itself in the wood. It made spelunking a joy. The ability to swing in any direction and climb up and down the rope was also sweet.
I loved the grappling hook too, but it could have done without the cutscene.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Night_Trekker said:
I'm talking about the gradual introduction to the controls, which (I thought) was expanded on his suggestion, according to one of the "Iwata Asks" interviews.

FAKE EDIT: From this section of the interview:



Again, I haven't played TP yet so I don't know if that's how it ended up.

Ah, thanks for that. Seems I was mistaken, partly.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
I think giving Link those white leg huggers was a good move by Nintendo. There's something seriously off about the old design in this day and age.

Phantom_Hourglass.jpg


Link_LOZ_with_stuff.png
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
The changes listed here are too extreme. The problem of course is that people want to upend the entire teatable when that is not the issue. It doesn't change enough, and it sacrifices the soul of the game. Settings and main characters won't change the things that are so intrinsic to the experience, like puzzles and that sense of exploration, and yet you're giving up the atmosphere that has been built through each title. It's an uneven tradeoff. When you change something, you have to make sure that it at least partially makes sense in the framework of the series. Zelda has always been about medieval fantasy. Sometimes things don't always make sense, like how a phone can be hooked up in a hut with no telephone wires, but that is part of the charm.

I think that 1) if you make things a little more scientific, then you think of it as needing an explanation, and I think that takes away from the unspoken charm that has always existed in Zelda. And 2) Zelda has been in that style for so long, without any hint of modernity besides some general wackiness, that it has almost planted its flag in that soil. Metroid sure as hell doesn't need to change from creepy, alien, isolated corridors. Why should Zelda? Certainly it has more breathing room to, but I don't think it would suit the game, as it would be injecting too much new atmosphere that wasn't there before. And if you just want to make it more subtle, then what's the point to begin with? It doesn't change enough to appease anybody, and it just causes a shit storm amonst fans.

Likewise, Majora's Mask did something drastically new and yet was unalienably Zelda. It had the same general setting, albeit in a different place. It had the same Link as the main character. It abided by all the typical Zelda staples. And yet it was boldly different. Granted a game that radical isn't going to come around every day, but there is so much wiggle room within the established formula that changing what Zelda is should be off limits. There is so much that can be done that is new and yet still Zelda. It just takes an effort to go in that direction. Don't take an unwillingness to go that way (if you can even say that about Aonuma, which I don't think you can) and supplant that by going in a different direction altogether.

Tristam said:
The Megaman formula was fine, but the series became unbelievably stale; so many iterations had passed that it was only a matter of time before you faced off against "Rainy Turtloid" (I'm not making that one up).

Likewise, the Zelda formula is fine, but the series has become stale -- everything is too damn predictable. I don't think changing Zelda aesthetically is enough; it's merely a new coat of paint. I do think it should be shook up structurally and probably mechanically too (assuming the next one is on Wii).

There are complaints that Zelda fans don't have any idea what they want, but I have a pretty good idea of what I want, or what I think would do wonders for making the next Zelda game more fresh:
Megaman also had the same exact formula but cycling bosses and weapons and levels in and out. Even the X series was basically the same thing. Zelda at least has made attempts to change from game to game. Each have different themes. Sometimes you're traveling through time. Sometimes you're using masks. The styles are different. The atmosphere can vary quite a bit (LA and MM for example). Sometimes the games are more open ended. Sometimes they're more stringent. Some focus on dungeons. Others focus on overworld stuff. Some are primarily multiplayer titles. One even tried to go side scrolling.

I'm not saying that Zelda is some bastion of creativity to the point where every game is a different skin. But Zelda has done a lot within its formula, a lot of the time more than some "original" games do on their own. For some that's not enough. For me Zelda hits a sweet spot: it gives the same thing I love while changing it up just enough from game to game. That is one thing I love about it.

EDIT: I think having a dedicated Zelda team is almost counter intuitive. It used to be that they barely knew if they would make a new Zelda. Now you have a dedicated team that is churning out new Zeldas constantly. Maybe they should take their time or take a break or something.
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
i honestly would like to see a style that's on the middleground between TP and WW with a bit of a gritter edge. the style would contrast with the setting and you would have a great set-up for a deep plot. perhaps with a deeper cast. TP did well in this regard, but it should be able to develop characters without forcing it. make players like zelda, ganon, whoever your companion is, etc bigger players. they did well with the companion in TP, though they left out a bit of zelda and ganon that could have been useful.

the next step would be to make the dungeon designs a bit more realistic in structure, like, give some method to the madness that ends up plaguing these "temples" and "dungeons." TP did much better at creating a more realistic setting for the temples and dungeons with places like the ice and desert areas, as well as the final castle. though there was still some flaws in that as well. the puzzle structure would have to change a bit, but it would still remain zelda.

finally, it would be best to add some new dynamics such as a furthered combat scheme to use the Wii controller. perhaps a total revamp of the combat system with reaction based swordplay and closer tracking of which way you slashed. new items would be good as well as new ways to combine and use them. maybe have different sword types which you could buy at weapon shops that could break or dull, at least until you obtained the ultimate sword/shield late in the game.
 

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
A Link to the Snitch said:
Make a new game FFS, I don't see the point in slapping the Zelda label on something so insanely different. What, having Link riding around in a robot and with a laser sword?
I don't think the setting or art style are the problem with Zelda. The problem is that when I start the game I need to find the sword so I can slash the weeds to get the money to buy the bombs to place against the crack in the wall to expose the 'hidden' room where I find the key in the chest that allows me to move to the next room where I hit the glowing part of the monster three times to get a fraction of the trinket. It's rote.

If anything, the Zelda coat of paint should be leveraged to ease the audience into a new and ambitious experience.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
I still say that at least one boss in Wind Waker -felt- like it was supposed to be either from "the future" or a relic of a tech-heavy, pre-apocolyptic age. The robo-like monster in the sea temple/shrine/thing.
 

watkinzez

Member
Lobster said:
I agree with Panther! Best suggestion in this thread, I hope Aonuma reads GAF. Using this style would be so revolutionary!

So, we want Legend of Samurai Jack?
Actually, that would be pretty cool.
 

Gwanatu T

Junior Member
big_z said:
could care less about the graphics at this point but for the love of god evolve the gameplay. the cookie cutter shit nintendo has been using since ALTTP has been raped to hell and back... the series is getting boring/predictable as fuck.

I would imagine they'd change it up a bit, or at least I hope this is the case. I'm still trudging through TP because I got bored of the same thing over and over.
 

MrSardonic

The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
The cel-shaded style of wind waker is timeless and really captures the essence of LTTP in 3D, in my opinion.

The next Zelda should definitely ditch the "realistic" graphics and go back to something stylized. The series could do with a new take on the formula too. It needs to do something analogous to what has just happened with Mario on the Wii.
 
turk128 said:
Instead of dictating what the next Zelda should be, I'll just go with what it shouldn't be:

*Whatever style they decide to go with, I hope to Jebus it ain't realistic style designs. That's just F'N lazy.

*If they are going to introduce technology, stay clear of Final Fantasy-ish designs.

*No change for change's sake.
Using the same fetus is design is equally lazy. TWW's link design is just so boring.

6ktl00h.jpg

This looks pretty good.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
MrSardonic said:
It needs to do something analogous to what has just happened with Mario on the Wii.

Not to take away from Galaxy or nothin, but I do find it somewhat funny that so many people are praising it's creativity, when all it's doing is going back to what many people liked before, similar in design to the 2D Marios.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
YYZ said:
I think giving Link those white leg huggers was a good move by Nintendo. There's something seriously off about the old design in this day and age.

With the white legs Link looks like he is wearing shorts or a long shirt, without them he looks like he is wearing a dress
 
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