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"Aonuma want to make a remake of A Link to the Past" and more about next Zelda on Wii
- Thread starter lancubap
- Start date
oo Kosma oo said:
In my defense, I don't do it often... upon further reflection, I must say that:
* Ocarina's story isn't really overdone, at least in comparison to other video games.
* I prefer Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Majora to Ocarina when it comes to story and character development.
* I'm going to have to catalog my disappointments with Ocarina, to see how many are unique to Ocarina and how many could be applied to all the 3D Zeldas.
* Ocarina was neat, but it didn't really feel like "Zelda". Perhaps lowered expectations made the other games feel more like it.
Also, the N64 Ganon just looked stupid, in all his forms. That's probably an artstyle complaint, though.
DavidDayton said:
See, this is where it gets confusing. I don't see many forum goers pick OoT as the Zelda with the best story (that's usually reserved for MM and more recently, WW it seems), but the complaints you made are far more appropriate for TP than OoT.
Overdone yet underdeveloped- both Zelda and Ganon are way underdeveloped compared to OoT. In OoT we actually had a backstory with Ganon and Zelda, not to mention they interacted with you quite a bit more through the game. This was in stark contrast to TP where Zelda makes an appearance and disappears til the end of the game. Then there's Ganon who, in TP just shows up, and at the end. With zero development whatsoever. He was far more fitting of the stereotypical villain who wants to take over the land without any particular reason to do so.
Plot holes, contradictions, etc: OoT I thought tied up all its loose ends quite nicely. I can't actually think of any instance where I wondered why this wasn't taken care of or whatnot. With TP, you have no idea where Ganon came from, and how he escaped from the sacred realm. And then you have other characters like Ilia, and the kids, who were built up to seem like an integral part part of the story, just get thrown to the wayside midway through. (not to mention why they bothered staying in Kakariko and not go home?)
God, I'm talking about Zelda way too much. :lol
David, what exactly didn't make OOT feel like Zelda to you? Are you talking about gameplay, atmosphere or the whole package? Because seeing your Mario 64 avatar I'd say Mario 64 was further away from the previous games gameplay wise then OOT was from other Zelda's. Atmosphere wise I know what you mean I think, OOT and TP in retrospect both don't really feel like Zelda's in that regard (First time I thought about this actually) While MM and WW do.
I'm off to bed now but I'll read your response tommorow.
I'm off to bed now but I'll read your response tommorow.
Oblivion said:
Hey, we talk about what we love... what's wrong with Zelda discussion?
I'm going to have to cease my complaints about Ocarina, as I obviously haven't thought out my dislike of the story enough to actually present and defend it (assuming it's defensible). I don't agree with the issues taken with Twilight Princess's story, although if we are looking at the games as individual entities rather than as part of a larger series, I would agree that Ocarina's story is more sensible to a newcomer than Twilight's was.
So, I've potentially failed... but hey, I prefer the other games to Ocarina! Hahah!
(Dodges fists)
Side note: Ocarina's time travel resolution always bugged me, given that the second half of the game never actually happens.
Oh, I greatly prefer the classic Mario games to SM64, but the avatar looks nice. Nothing to do with my prefence for the gameplay.oo Kosma oo said:
Ocarina's atmosphere, story, and gameplay were a radical departure from the traditional games, but I'd have to admit that a chunk of that probably comes from the 2D to 3D transition. Zelda made a better transition than Mario did as far as gameplay goes, but it still felt like it took "a step backwards". Item functionality seemed decreased, magic was removed, puzzles seemed simplified, etc.. Wind Waker and Twilight were both, in my opinion, improved variations of Ocarina, which made them more fun (even with Wind Waker's obnoxious water flaw).
I guess the closest thing I could really say is that Ocarina felt like a more "streamlined" Zelda, made to cram the game into a 3D framework. As they made more, I think the games got more fleshed out. Honestly, this probably doesn't make Ocarina a bad game, but I don't think it's objectively a better game than either Wind Waker or TP... it's just a bit more "fresh" to some as it was the first attempt at a 3D Zelda.
Oblivion said:
Wtf? You do know there was a highly innovative, vastly different, and imo hugely better game that came out shortly after OoT right? Majora's Mask was a massive shift in the structure of a Zelda game, had a completely different cast, and had drastically fewer dungeons.
And it was awesome. It's not like expecting change in the series is something new. Zelda II, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker all demonstrate that Zelda is a series not afraid of change. How you can be a Zelda fan and bitch about that, I don't rightly understand.
maharg said:
What are you talking about? Have you even been paying atttention? I noted that all those games are fairly different and unique. (whether they succeeded in being good games, that's another matter entirely)
My point was those changes I didn't mind, yet people still bitched that they were the same.
edit: and I don't see how having a fewer number of dungeons (the meat and bones of a Zelda game) would be seen in ANY light as better. Unless you hate dungeons, of course. Then it all comes together.
Oblivion said:
Some people like change. Some people don't. I don't see any inconsistencies, just difference of opinion.
EDIT: Nevermind, I see what you're saying -- that people still claimed those games were cookie cutters. Wind Waker was very close to the OoT formula, but TP was even moreso, and it was less forgivable than WW because it was the second instance of an OoT derivative rather than the first.
Firestorm said:
Aonuma explained this when he said that at the end of OOT, the series split into 2 timelines (Young Link and Older Link). He said WW took place about 100 years after Older Link's timeline, while TP takes place about 100 years after Young Link's timeline.
The reason the hero doesn't come in TWW, is that when Zelda plays the Ocarina of Time to older Link at the end of OOT, Older Link ceased to exist. That is how he becomes "separated from what made him a hero" and the Triforce left him, split, and went to the bottom of the ocean. It also explains why there is no hero to save the day.
The reason the hero doesn't come in TWW, is that when Zelda plays the Ocarina of Time to older Link at the end of OOT, Older Link ceased to exist. That is how he becomes "separated from what made him a hero" and the Triforce left him, split, and went to the bottom of the ocean. It also explains why there is no hero to save the day.
cartman414
Member
Since I haven't put it in plain words yet, note to Aonuma: Zelda II remake/spiritual successor, please. If you'd rather not tie up your own resources, leave it in the hands of someone capable like WayForward.
A Link to the Past
Banned
cartman414 said:
Remake LoZ with overhead 3D visuals, Zelda II on Wii with 3D visuals, and LA on DS with awesome 2D visuals.
Also, no, LttP is up to LA's level.
cartman414
Member
A Link to the Snitch said:
Zelda II should be high level 2d, not 3d, which often lacks soul. And it would have to be on WiiWare if it were to turn up again on Wii.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
charlequin
Banned
radcliff said:
If Aonuma is actually supporting that nonsense then my hopes for a more interesting story in future Zelda installments goes way, way down.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
the only point to a zelda game is dungeons. everything else is just cack, usually.
cartman414
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
True, but the overworld ties them together, and a weak one dampens the whole experience as a result.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Tristam said:
and majora's mask's dungeons (and mini-non-official-dungeons) were the best the series ever saw.
let the series rest for a while and let Aonuma team make a new IP or some shit?
god knows the team could make some great new and original games but being held back by this franchise wont let them do so, because of traditions and shit.
I really hate how Nintendo make some teams churn out the same games for the same series over and over.
god knows the team could make some great new and original games but being held back by this franchise wont let them do so, because of traditions and shit.
I really hate how Nintendo make some teams churn out the same games for the same series over and over.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Tristam said:
everything you do in majora involves some sort of awesome dungeon ("official" or otherwise). to complete villager requests, you have to go through some great ones. the thief's hideout was amazing.
Dragona Akehi said:
How about defending the ranch's cows from invading aliens? Or Goron racing? Or pictograph-taking? Sure there were plenty of smaller, "unofficial" dungeons, but Majora's Mask still featured the most sidequests and mini-games of any Zelda game. That's really part of the reason I love it.
super funk
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
My favorite part about Zeldas is the overworld and sidequests. They need to make a Zelda game thats nothing but those two.
I would like to see a remake of the original though, nothing but updated graphics and a little more character added.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Zelda has been around for so long and has seen so many iterations that everybody has their own idea of what Zelda is (and frankly some of the "suggestions" in this thread are abysmal). Just by making a new Zelda they're confining themselves to endless hate. I think the best thing for the series is a break until Zelda Wii and then come out with something absolutely spectacular, although I would love a LTTP remake (it's not like people have to buy it). But it sounded more like Aonuma just thinking out loud instead of suggesting a future project. But Aonuma changes his mind literally every day. Just a few months ago he said that the realistic style would be an appropriate path for the console games.
Hey, if we are getting another Wii Zelda, it is safe to assume it will be something "other" than the "standard" one at this point, right? Between the stories of "last traditional Zelda" and the fact that it's on the Wii, perhaps we can expect another Majora-like masterpiece?
Please?
Please?
the androgyne
Member
Tristam said:
I love MM but that invading aliens bit is one of my most hated parts. I stupidly forget to wait until i have the rabbit ears before trying it, and after screwing it up, realise i have to either wait it out or skip forward time to try it again. At that point is where my last replay of MM ended!
GeneralIroh
Member
CassSept said:
agreed
super funk
Member
Oblivion said:
Yes, Ive heard thats what MM is like but Ive never played it so that means it doesnt count.
the androgyne
Member
Redd said:
Well obviously i forgot this as well
i really think they could do a few things to make 3d zelda feel new again....
bring in monolith to help with creating the story scenerio for the next game to really make something that feels different
take off the training wheels with the controls
and i always wanted a bit more depth to the rpg elements...more magic, more weapon & armor choices and maybe build a party.
and use wiiconnect24 to add new weapons or something
bring in monolith to help with creating the story scenerio for the next game to really make something that feels different
take off the training wheels with the controls
and i always wanted a bit more depth to the rpg elements...more magic, more weapon & armor choices and maybe build a party.
and use wiiconnect24 to add new weapons or something
Xdrive05
Member
Speaking of portals (it was mentioned far above),
I thought the puzzles in Portal really did feel very "Zelda-ish" in that they're usually easy/apparent, yet somehow still extremely satisfying to solve.
I would support physics and/or portal based puzzles in at least one dungeon for a new Zelda. Mario Galaxy does really well with this kind of stuff, so it makes sense.
I thought the puzzles in Portal really did feel very "Zelda-ish" in that they're usually easy/apparent, yet somehow still extremely satisfying to solve.
I would support physics and/or portal based puzzles in at least one dungeon for a new Zelda. Mario Galaxy does really well with this kind of stuff, so it makes sense.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Maybe we could have Epona on the crucifix?ethelred said:
A Link to the Past
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
Yes.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Odrion said:
No.
What is up with all the OoT bashing on GAF? Anyway, I'm just glad to know that Aonuma's working on a new Zelda, remake or otherwise, because it's one of my favorite series and more is always welcome! Though honestly "more of the same" would be fine with me, and I'm not not sure why he feels like he needs to change up the formula, but I guess GAF believes that too now so yeah.
Sharp said:
The Megaman formula was fine, but the series became unbelievably stale; so many iterations had passed that it was only a matter of time before you faced off against "Rainy Turtloid" (I'm not making that one up).
Likewise, the Zelda formula is fine, but the series has become stale -- everything is too damn predictable. I don't think changing Zelda aesthetically is enough; it's merely a new coat of paint. I do think it should be shook up structurally and probably mechanically too (assuming the next one is on Wii).
There are complaints that Zelda fans don't have any idea what they want, but I have a pretty good idea of what I want, or what I think would do wonders for making the next Zelda game more fresh:
[quote="Tristam]The superficial trappings are less important than a structural shift (and I think a return to an open-ended Zelda is a fantastic idea). And like I said, it's not just the game structure, but the structure of the dungeons themselves. Toss out that progression that invariably follows the tired convention of map -> compass -> mini-boss -> treasure -> big boss key -> boss defeated only with dungeon item. Make some dungeons small; make some dungeons huge. It doesn't matter how big they are -- just vary them. Change the bosses so that they can be defeated a number of different ways using different combinations of items. Like another poster said, go ahead and make the "hub" of the world (and it doesn't even have to be a real "hub," although villages always work nicely) the safest place on the map; the remainder of the map should get more dangerous -- in terms of enemies and environmental hazards -- the farther you go (though few areas should be so difficult that they're totally inaccessible at the beginning of the game; DQ, for example, forces you to grind to access new areas). Perhaps two or three dungeons can't be reached until Link's acquired some new item or ability -- that's fine. But allow most of them to be completed arbitrarily.
I'm less concerned about the graphics as long as they're colorful and clean. TP had some fantastically beautiful scenes and some downright ugly ones (thanks to the textures). As for story, I don't care how much of it is there (I generally don't care for stories in video games in general) as long as what is there makes sense. And as for NPCs, I love the more colorful characters of the Zelda games, but it'd be interesting to see a Zelda 1-style world sparsely populated by old ladies, gamblers, and moblins hidden in caves. Not that I'm advocating that, but it would be interesting. Then again, I'd be just as interested in a Zelda II setup with all kinds of little towns tucked away in woods or mountains or valleys. Make it so that it's not essential -- but still very worthwhile -- to travel to most of them.
Like I said, I'm just fine with keeping Zelda in the mythology and universe that it's always resided in (although it doesn't have to be set in the world of Hyrule). It's always resembled a simple folktale about callow youth and raw courage, which is why I object to depictions of Link tripped out in Godly armor, armed with dual swords, and riding astride a pegasus. Toss him in a world with his little green tunic, a wooden shield, and a slender pigsticker and see what he can do. His skills should rely more on ingenuity than strength.
As for you guys spinning elaborate plots and complicated systems of spells, armor, and weapons, I guess we have very different ideas about what Zelda should embody.[/quote]
Because playing countless TooT rehashes is much better.A Link to the Snitch said:
Seriously, give us a new colorful wacky Zelda with new steampunkish gadgets. I want to be able to use a Portal Gun to solve puzzles in a dungeon!
Hell, I'll write the story: Your planet explodes into several dozen segments, fast forward x-amount of years later and you are the chosen one to go on each segment and reunite/restore the planet by collecting... something mythical.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Odrion said:
NO
The only futuristic Zeldaness I ever could ever even vaguely think of would be something FROM the future somehow entering present day Zelda.