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"Aonuma want to make a remake of A Link to the Past" and more about next Zelda on Wii

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Big Icarus said:
I would throw out all the previous puzzle solving cliche's and tools that they've been relying on in the past games. I think we've shot eye-switches with arrows enough by now.

I would like to see something completely new in as far as the puzzles are concerned. Metroid Prime 3's use of the Wiimote to push levers and grab things was interesting. If they could take that sort or interaction and do more with that stuff in a Zelda game it'd be great.

Like for instance throwing out the stupid hookshot, and bring back the grappling hook. Desining puzzles specifically around "throwing" that grappling hook, so let's say: You want to grab an item stuck on a ledge, but it's in a narrow hall, so you can't just throw the hook at it. The puzzle would involving banking the hook end off a wall or something so you could bounce the grappling hook on top of the item you're grabbing.

Also, I'd love to see more emphasis on combat. Now that were using motion controls we should see more sophistication in Link's swordplay. I'd say get rid of the aging lock on feature and design swordplay that's much broader, and with results that lead to larger scale chaotic sword battles with multiple enemies at a time.

Waving the wiimote around to do a circular slash that would clash against enemy swords drawing in on you knocking them back a little then thrusting the wiimote forward to stab at particular ones.

In regards to sidequests and such, I'd like to see them bring back the time management system from Majora's Mask, and perhaps apply it to a week within the game world or a month or something and having NPC follow a schedule during the course of the game. I always wondered why this feature wasn't brought back in any of the recent Zeldas. It's by far the most interesting thing that's been done with the series in the past few years.

See, this is exactly what I mean. Aside from the time system (and the comment about puzzle cliches, wtf?) what most people actually want is minor tweaks here and there in certain gameplay aspects. Many don't want a complete overhaul, just want some refinements to stuff that we've already been exposed to. It's pretty clear that most of you don't really know what you want.

On the plus side, you guys would be ideal candidates for reviewing games at 1up and Gamespot.
 

Krowley

Member
I always ask this question and no one seems to give a proper answer, but what drastic changes would you make for the series in the next installment? (btw, saying something like more sidequests doesn't count)

I would borrow the auto lock-on feature from games like Ninja gaiden. Much more fluid and requires fewer buttons.

I would make the overworld much bigger with more towns

I would make a game were they just drop you in, and give you a very simple quest (save zelda), but no idea what it will take to complete it.

I would leave the basic zelda structure alone. (8 dungeons, save zelda from ganon)

I would include several optional items.

I woiuld make the sword upgradable and tweakable so that you end the game with a unique weapon with unique attributes.

I would include difficulty settings, that make enemies smarter and more aggressive, as well as more damaging.

I would borrow a lot of things from free roam games like elder scrolls and GTA. Zelda already has a lot of that stuff and it could be expanded on.

I would totally revamp the graphical style so that it didn't look like any previous zelda game.

edit// but I've never been terribly unhappy with the current zelda games. My tweaks may not be radical enough for some people.

I have absolutley no interest in making zelda deeply story oriented for example. I like the basic concept that mainline zelda's are clones as far as structure.
 
Oblivion said:
See, this is exactly what I mean. Aside from the time system (and the comment about puzzle cliches, wtf?) what most people actually want is minor tweaks here and there in certain gameplay aspects. Many don't want a complete overhaul, just want some refinements to stuff that we've already been exposed to. It's pretty clear that most of you don't really know what you want.

On the plus side, you guys would be ideal candidates for reviewing games at 1up and Gamespot.
I think a lot of people are really tired of every game having a similar story. It isn't the gameplay that I have the most complaints about. It's the fact that Ganondorf is always the villain, I always pull the Master Sword from a stone (which is always the only thing that can defeat Ganondorf), and Zelda is always in danger. And the Triforce is always an integral part of the story.
 

Krowley

Member
Green Shinobi said:
I think a lot of people are really tired of every game having a similar story. It isn't the gameplay that I have the most complaints about. It's the fact that Ganondorf is always the villain, I always pull the Master Sword from a stone (which is always the only thing that can defeat Ganondorf), and Zelda is always in danger. And the Triforce is always an integral part of the story.


That's one of the things i'm most happy with. I would rather see radical gameplay changes than changes to the structure. And if there were any changes, I would rather see a reversal.. simpler story... More like zelda 1.
 
Krowley said:
That's one of the things i'm most happy with. I would rather see radical gameplay changes than changes to the structure.
Seriously? You wouldn't want to see a different villain threaten Hyrule? Maybe one who can be defeated by something other than the Master Sword or Light Arrows?
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Green Shinobi said:
I'll answer your question, Oblivion.

Krowley said:
suggestions

Thanks for responding. However, from what I've seen so far in this thread, the only changes that I would constitute as 'drastic' or 'complete overhaul' would be the more open ended world structure (like Zelda 1/GTA) and the issue about the story.

I guess the thing that irks me the most is that if people (such as those in this thread) would easily dismiss OoT for being nothing more than a LttP clone, despite all the innovation it brought as well, then there is very little that could be done to future Zelda that WOULDN'T disappoint these same people. What I feel they would imagine is something like having some futuristic setting, with a completely different cast, no dungeons, and modify the whole thing so much that it wouldn't even be Zelda anymore.

But then again, I'm way more forgiving than most. I happen to think Nintendo did a great job differentiating every series in the game (don't confuse that with doing a great job with every game btw).

How is it that such an obviously flawed critique of the Zelda series continues to be thrown around when even a cursory glance the games reveals it to be utter hogwash? Is it because it's been parroted among mainstream gaming press and people think that this somehow lends the position validity?

And this I think is something that's part of it. Thank you.
 

Krowley

Member
Green Shinobi said:
Seriously? You wouldn't want to see a different villain threaten Hyrule? Maybe one who can be defeated by something other than the Master Sword or Light Arrows?


Nope.

The eternal struggle between Link, zelda and ganon, with each being constantly reborn and reliving the same thing is the core foundation of the series as far as I'm concerned..

It's surreal and wonderfully vague. I see it as a very interesting and abstract element. It's like a dream that keeps repeating with little changes each time.

edit// making a game were that doesn't happen isn't nessecarily a bad thing, but I will view it as a side game... Kinda like mario's visit to the beach in sunshine.
 

Redd

Member
Just make the next Zelda harder, way harder. FFS make the boss fights seem like boss fights. Do away with the heart collecting and give a set amount of hearts right at the start. You should be able to get some armor or magical protection to cushion or extend it the further you go, but no more heart collecting.

I like the battle system though so just improve that area and that's fine. Give it a more fleshed out story and make the dungeons more unique and i'm set. Wishful thinking but it would be nice to use other characters at some points in the game like sheikas or whatever surprise me.
 
^^^^

Everything he said. Also, have more of an economy. Force the player to buy a lot more weapons, spells and ammunition for ranged weapons. Finally, I don't see why some people consider it blasphemy for Link to talk. Just because Nintendo wrote piss-poor dialogue in Mario Sunshine doesn't mean that great dialougue couldn't be written for a Zelda game.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Green Shinobi said:
Seriously? You wouldn't want to see a different villain threaten Hyrule? Maybe one who can be defeated by something other than the Master Sword or Light Arrows?

And this is another thing. I don't see how those things are inherently bad or anything. Would it make that much of a difference if Ganon was called BadGuias or something? Would it be better if you didnt' get something powered up like the Master Sword after the 3rd dungeon like in LA? Is it really that annoying that you had another 2 dimension gameplay mechanic, despite the fact that the way OoT and LttP did it are COMPLETELY different?
 

GamerSoul

Member
I think it would be interesting if Link was actually able to use the Triforce of Courage to do some actually abilities. So far it has only been just a sign, while Ganon's time and time again shows the true meaning of "Power" as he puts it atleast. Courage would be kinda hard to put into physical form but it would be worth the try.

One of my dream areas for a Zelda game would be the Realm of the Godesses. Imagine if Link had to venture to that area using his piece of the Triforce to take out Ganon.
 
Oblivion said:
And this is another thing. I don't see how those things are inherently bad or anything. Would it make that much of a difference if Ganon was called BadGuias or something? Would it be better if you didnt' get something powered up like the Master Sword after the 3rd dungeon like in LA? Is it really that annoying that you had another 2 dimension gameplay mechanic, despite the fact that the way OoT and LttP did it are COMPLETELY different?
Well, I'm an English major, and for me, story is often very important. So yes, it does make a difference that Ganon always returns. See, the villain I would write for the story wouldn't just be Ganon with a different name. He would look and act completely different. His strategy would be completely different. His speech and mannerisms would be completely different.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Segata Sanshiro said:
And that's really the heart of it. If the games keep getting 9+ aggregates from reviewers, sell millions, win game of the year awards and nominations, how will Nintendo ever know they're doing anything wrong? Moreover, why should they care?

Some folks would argue that they aren't doing anything wrong, but I suppose that goes against GAF-logic.

About the only thing I do agree with is that the Zelda and Mario games should be limited to 1-2 per hardware iteration... which they historically have been.

(So I didn't dislike Twilight Princess -- am I anathema around here, now?)
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Green Shinobi said:
Well, I'm an English major, and for me, story is often very important. So yes, it does make a difference that Ganon always returns. See, the villain I would write for the story wouldn't just be Ganon with a different name. He would look and act completely different. His strategy would be completely different. His speech and mannerisms would be completely different.

I can somewhat understand but still. The Ganon's in the past 3 3D Zelda games look different enough that one could almost consider them new villains (again, though. I'm probably more forgiving about all this).

As for your comment about dialogue. I dunno about that either. The story in certain cases needs work, but the dialogue seems to be fine imo. I used to get irked when people would talk about how simple the dialogue in Zelda is, but honestly, I've come to realize that that simplicity is why it seems to work so well.
 

Tristam

Member
Oblivion said:
Thanks for responding. However, from what I've seen so far in this thread, the only changes that I would constitute as 'drastic' or 'complete overhaul' would be the more open ended world structure (like Zelda 1/GTA) and the issue about the story.

I guess the thing that irks me the most is that if people (such as those in this thread) would easily dismiss OoT for being nothing more than a LttP clone, despite all the innovation it brought as well, then there is very little that could be done to future Zelda that WOULDN'T disappoint these same people. What I feel they would imagine is something like having some futuristic setting, with a completely different cast, no dungeons, and modify the whole thing so much that it wouldn't even be Zelda anymore.

But then again, I'm way more forgiving than most. I happen to think Nintendo did a great job differentiating every series in the game (don't confuse that with doing a great job with every game btw).



And this I think is something that's part of it. Thank you.

The superficial trappings are less important than a structural shift (and I think a return to an open-ended Zelda is a fantastic idea). And like I said, it's not just the game structure, but the structure of the dungeons themselves. Toss out that progression that invariably follows the tired convention of map -> compass -> mini-boss -> treasure -> big boss key -> boss defeated only with dungeon item. Make some dungeons small; make some dungeons huge. It doesn't matter how big they are -- just vary them. Change the bosses so that they can be defeated a number of different ways using different combinations of items. Like another poster said, go ahead and make the "hub" of the world (and it doesn't even have to be a real "hub," although villages always work nicely) the safest place on the map; the remainder of the map should get more dangerous -- in terms of enemies and environmental hazards -- the farther you go (though few areas should be so difficult that they're totally inaccessible at the beginning of the game; DQ, for example, forces you to grind to access new areas). Perhaps two or three dungeons can't be reached until Link's acquired some new item or ability -- that's fine. But allow most of them to be completed arbitrarily.

I'm less concerned about the graphics as long as they're colorful and clean. TP had some fantastically beautiful scenes and some downright ugly ones (thanks to the textures). As for story, I don't care how much of it is there (I generally don't care for stories in video games in general) as long as what is there makes sense. And as for NPCs, I love the more colorful characters of the Zelda games, but it'd be interesting to see a Zelda 1-style world sparsely populated by old ladies, gamblers, and moblins hidden in caves. Not that I'm advocating that, but it would be interesting. Then again, I'd be just as interested in a Zelda II setup with all kinds of little towns tucked away in woods or mountains or valleys. Make it so that it's not essential -- but still very worthwhile -- to travel to most of them.

Like I said, I'm just fine with keeping Zelda in the mythology and universe that it's always resided in (although it doesn't have to be set in the world of Hyrule). It's always resembled a simple folktale about callow youth and raw courage, which is why I object to depictions of Link tripped out in Godly armor, armed with dual swords, and riding astride a pegasus. Toss him in a world with his little green tunic, a wooden shield, and a slender pigsticker and see what he can do. His skills should rely more on ingenuity than strength.

As for you guys spinning elaborate plots and complicated systems of spells, armor, and weapons, I guess we have very different ideas about what Zelda should embody.
 

Redd

Member
GamerSoul said:
I think it would be interesting if Link was actually able to use the Triforce of Courage to do some actually abilities. So far it has only been just a sign, while Ganon's time and time again shows the true meaning of "Power" as he puts it atleast. Courage would be kinda hard to put into physical form but it would be worth the try.

One of my dream areas for a Zelda game would be the Realm of the Godesses. Imagine if Link had to venture to that area using his piece of the Triforce to take out Ganon.

Hey that's a good idea but what would courage do? It would be kind of cool if the Zelda and Link combined theirs to give Link the edge to take down the power Triforce that gannon wields.
 
Oblivion said:
I can somewhat understand but still. The Ganon's in the past 3 3D Zelda games look different enough that one could almost consider them new villains (again, though. I'm probably more forgiving about all this).

As for your comment about dialogue. I dunno about that either. The story in certain cases needs work, but the dialogue seems to be fine imo. I used to get irked when people would talk about how simple the dialogue in Zelda is, but honestly, I've come to realize that that simplicity is why it seems to work so well.
Actually, the dialogue in Twilight Princess was pretty fantastic in parts. I especially loved the part that was questioning what would happen if Link turned to evil. I would just push it further in that direction if I were in charge of storyboarding. I didn't mean to say that I thought it needed a complete overhaul.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
DavidDayton said:
Some folks would argue that they aren't doing anything wrong, but I suppose that goes against GAF-logic.

About the only thing I do agree with is that the Zelda and Mario games should be limited to 1-2 per hardware iteration... which they historically have been.

(So I didn't dislike Twilight Princess -- am I anathema around here, now?)

Hardly any of us would actually 'hate' the game, I'd say. I enjoyed it myself, but there was a lot in there that many of us felt that didn't improve, and in some areas, even took steps backwards.
 
DavidDayton said:
(So I didn't dislike Twilight Princess -- am I anathema around here, now?)

I actually didn't really like ALTTP that much, so I guess I would be. And what I meant by the puzzles comment is that they've simply become too predictable for veteran players now.

Every time I see some eye-switches or a crack on a wall in Zelda dungeons, I know exactly what I have to do. At that point they kinda stop being puzzles. Some different means of unlocking doors and finding hidden treasure chests would be nice.
 
DavidDayton said:
Some folks would argue that they aren't doing anything wrong, but I suppose that goes against GAF-logic.

About the only thing I do agree with is that the Zelda and Mario games should be limited to 1-2 per hardware iteration... which they historically have been.

(So I didn't dislike Twilight Princess -- am I anathema around here, now?)
I love Twilight Princess. But it's incredibly samey. I don't have the solution for that issue, but I'm obviously not the only one having it.

I feel like I've been living the same story in the console Zeldas (MM aside) since 1992. That's a long time, even if it's only four installments.
 

dcdobson

Member
beelzebozo said:
i'd love to see them make a setting change that would really piss some people off initially, and make them question whether it was a good idea or not. since the conceit of the series since wind waker has been that this whole "hero of time" thing is a tradition where a new boy wears the clothes on a certain day, you could take it into any era and maintain the general progression of the adventure. imagine if, rather than wind waker/twilight princess's still rather pastoral and undeveloped villages, if link were in a city that was more developed; that way, the transition from link's everyday life to the bizarre, uncontrolled caves, dungeons, etc. that for some reason still lie outside his normal life is a lot more drastic (in much the same way you would be more shocked to find an 800 year old dungeon if you had been raised in nyc).

that's all a hard sell, i know--even to myself. but i think if the series is going to stay really interesting the devs need to step outside the lines a bit
I love this idea.
 

GamerSoul

Member
Redd said:
Hey that's a good idea but what would courage do? It would be kind of cool if the Zelda and Link combined theirs to give Link the edge to take down the power Triforce that gannon wields.

I think it would work perfectly if it was treated similarly to that Wolf sidequest where you can learn new techniques overtime. That way, you would be constantly learning what the TriForce of Courage means while learning some powerful techniques that have been used by the past Courage weilders. Imagine an older OoT Link teaching you a massive combo or something. Well maybe not that but something interesting.
 

Scribble

Member
Real "Next-Gen Zelda":

+ Modern Day Setting
+ Non linear dungeon progression ala LOZ
+ Multiple Links, one guy, one girl
+ Zelda is evil
+ Ganondorf is good
+ etc
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
oo Kosma oo said:
Why not Links Awakening.... :(
Links awakening would be awesome.... I just want them to bring back Tal Tal Heights in some form. The music was excellent and needs a modern mix.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Segata Sanshiro said:
I love Twilight Princess. But it's incredibly samey. I don't have the solution for that issue, but I'm obviously not the only one having it.

I feel like I've been living the same story in the console Zeldas (MM aside) since 1992. That's a long time, even if it's only four installments.

While I love Majora's Mask, I don't get the general annoyance at "the story being the same" -- it's an action/adventure game... why is the vague plot outline that much of an issue? Heck, the actual story for each of the 3D Zelda games is quite different, it's just that the overall "BAD GUY IS GANON. HE HAS ZELDA. GO DEFEAT HIM" thing remains the same.

I guess I'm just sick of the general GAFfitude towards the Nintendo titles, which seems to be summed up as follows:

* Complain that Nintendo doesn't make enough sequels to their games. (WHY ONLY ONE SMASH BROS. ON GC? NINTENDO SO STUPID!)
* Complain that sequels aren't different enough. (ME PLAY THIS BEFORE! SO MUCH THE SAME!)

I mean, I'm sure it's probably not the same folks crying out for more sequels and then whining about sequels at the same time, but I don't see what folks are really expecting EAD and associates to do.

Real changes/revisions to basic gameplay elements have been suggested (returning to a more open ended game structure, as in the original LoZ), and I find myself generally agreeing with those... but a lot of folks seem to be complaining about the story of the Zelda games. Why? Is this the sad fallout of Ocarina -- we're expecting drawn out, silly stories for every Zelda game now?

Okay. I'm probably just griping and contradicting myself now (given that I loved Majora's Mask and also found Twilight Princess's actual story and character development greatly improved from its predecessors), but I just don't "get" a lot of the complaints here, outside for the pining for the return of open ended gameplay.
 

Kosma

Banned
Tal Tal Heights, now that name sure brings back memories.

God how I loved that game, my first Zelda, and my first complex console game that I purchased from my own money. I remember thinking to myself as a young fellow that the time was ripe to try something more mature and complex, a whole fantasy world to get absorbed by. It's amazing how that crappy two color screen could produce such a masterpiece like that , brimming with character and awesome music, a compelling storyline and great gameplay.

The only other Zelda's I've finished are OOT and WW, (oh oh I skipped Majora's Mask!) but the franchise really lost it shine for me somehow. I couldn't even bother to finish TP :( I really wanted to love it but it seemed so uninspired. Sigh maybe I'm just to jaded for this fairytale.

Hope that PH will restore my faith in the series!
 
Because in failing to differentiate each installment significantly, and without a 4th dimension to go to, some people are going to develop the attitude of "What's the point?"

This is exactly what happened to Mega Man, except that happened in a shorter span of time.
 

Zilch

Banned
Right now, I feel like a complete overhaul is the only thing that is going to keep me interested in the series. That's a depressing thought.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
Krowley said:
I would borrow the auto lock-on feature from games like Ninja gaiden. Much more fluid and requires fewer buttons.

I would make the overworld much bigger with more towns

I would make a game were they just drop you in, and give you a very simple quest (save zelda), but no idea what it will take to complete it.

I would leave the basic zelda structure alone. (8 dungeons, save zelda from ganon)

I would include several optional items.

I woiuld make the sword upgradable and tweakable so that you end the game with a unique weapon with unique attributes.

I would include difficulty settings, that make enemies smarter and more aggressive, as well as more damaging.

I would borrow a lot of things from free roam games like elder scrolls and GTA. Zelda already has a lot of that stuff and it could be expanded on.

I would totally revamp the graphical style so that it didn't look like any previous zelda game.

edit// but I've never been terribly unhappy with the current zelda games. My tweaks may not be radical enough for some people.

I have absolutley no interest in making zelda deeply story oriented for example. I like the basic concept that mainline zelda's are clones as far as structure.

+ Make "Magic" finally useful. Or even make it somehow RPG style:
You have to decide wether you are more of a sword wielder, or more of a caster.

+ Multiple Ways to defeat bosses.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
DavidDayton said:
Why? Is this the sad fallout of Ocarina -- we're expecting drawn out, silly stories for every Zelda game now?

You had me until here. :mad:

Because in failing to differentiate each installment significantly

How significant must it be? I mean, realistically speaking.

-OoT gave us Zelda in motherf'n 3D
-MM had a completely different gameplay mechanic built around it (and a whole new world for those bitching about Hyrule)
-WW had a completely different unique look

I suppose you could argue that TP is rather samey, though I would argue that somewhat as well.
 
Taichu said:
I'd rather have an Ocarina of Time remake with TP's engine.

But what I really want is Miyamoto making a NEW Zelda game. I've had enough Aonuma/Capcom piss-poor entries. TP was a step in the right direction by Aonuma, but still really lacked in dungeon design and use of the new items.

Wind Waker is the Star Trek V of Zelda.

This is where I disagree greatly. Capcom's Zeldas were tons better than OoT in my book.

And to answer to Oblivion's response to my previous post, my problem with OoT was that it wasn't tailored well enough as a 3d Zelda.

A Link to the Snitch said:
I think that Zelda, AoL, and Link's Awakening are the only ones needing remakes.

It's a little hard to tell whether that's a compliment or an insult. To reiterate what I once said, whereas the only thing LA really needs gameplay-wise is an interface/button layout overhaul, LttP would need some design streamlining, not to mention some items as well as item uses/changes, to bring it up to LA's level.

Though I've always been on the Zelda 2 remake bandwagon because it's a crime they never did another game like it.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Segata Sanshiro said:
Because in failing to differentiate each installment significantly, and without a 4th dimension to go to, some people are going to develop the attitude of "What's the point?"

This is exactly what happened to Mega Man, except that happened in a shorter span of time.

I guess I just see Twilight Princess as the first 3D Zelda game to get the "traditional formula" really right, as far as the gameplay goes. Then again, I'm part of the sick contingent who liked Ocarina but don't see it as the holy grail of gaming.

How about this -- I'd be happy with the N64 model of "Two Zeldas per hardware iteration: one 'classic', one 'side story'". We'd get both a unique take on the game AND the next iteration of "bigger, better LOZ/LTTP/Ocarina" everyone seems to want.

Oblivion said:
DavidDayton said:
Why? Is this the sad fallout of Ocarina -- we're expecting drawn out, silly stories for every Zelda game now?
You had me until here. :mad:
Hey, perhaps I phrased it a bit strongly, but I do think that Ocarina has been overhyped to the point at which it detracts from the series. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both got the traditional Zelda gameplay better than Ocarina did, which felt like a "light" Zelda in 3D, but pumped full of a somewhat overdone story.
 
DavidDayton said:
I guess I just see Twilight Princess as the first 3D Zelda game to get the "traditional formula" really right, as far as the gameplay goes. Then again, I'm part of the sick contingent who liked Ocarina but don't see it as the holy grail of gaming.
David, we are the brothers from different mothers.
 
DavidDayton said:
I guess I just see Twilight Princess as the first 3D Zelda game to get the "traditional formula" really right, as far as the gameplay goes. Then again, I'm part of the sick contingent who liked Ocarina but don't see it as the holy grail of gaming.

How about this -- I'd be happy with the N64 model of "Two Zeldas per hardware iteration: one 'classic', one 'side story'". We'd get both a unique take on the game AND the next iteration of "bigger, better LOZ/LTTP/Ocarina" everyone seems to want.


Hey, perhaps I phrased it a bit strongly, but I do think that Ocarina has been overhyped to the point at which it detracts from the series. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both got the traditional Zelda gameplay better than Ocarina did, which felt like a "light" Zelda in 3D, but pumped full of a somewhat overdone story.

Yup.
 

Kosma

Banned
I think a lot of games that are more skill based then Zelda can get away with "samey" gameplay mechanics. Solving the same 3D puzzles doesn't require skill else then time, the fighting is too easy and shallow and not rewarding and fetch quests get old real quick.
I think if the series cut down on filler content or at least had a core gameplay mechanic that involved skill people wouldn't be so bored.

Platformers rely on jumping skills.
RPG's require stat tweaking and combat decisions, plus other choices.
Action /Adventures combine platforming and shooting skills

Zelda doesn't require anything but time, but in this day and age it doesn't give you much reward for it imho. Beautiful vista's are not so impressing in 480p to keep me playing. It doesn't have character progression either like RPG's so I''m not playing for that either. And the story is pretty mediocre too.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Segata Sanshiro said:
David, we are the brothers from different mothers.

Hey, you're the Sega side, I'm the Nintendo side.

As I said, I -need- to get your Wii code so we can send snarky messages back and forth so as to prepare for the eventual takeover of the planet.
 
DavidDayton said:
I guess I just see Twilight Princess as the first 3D Zelda game to get the "traditional formula" really right, as far as the gameplay goes. Then again, I'm part of the sick contingent who liked Ocarina but don't see it as the holy grail of gaming.
So you liked the best item in the game (the Gale Boomerang) being abandoned completely after the first dungeon? Bosses that you'd have to make an effort to lose to? Dungeon design where they put the key to a locked door in a chest right next to the door?

Ocarina killed TP in dungeon design for the most part, and it did a much better job of keeping the items integrated into the gameplay for longer than the duration of the dungeons where you find them.
 
DavidDayton said:
Hey, you're the Sega side, I'm the Nintendo side.

As I said, I -need- to get your Wii code so we can send snarky messages back and forth so as to prepare for the eventual takeover of the planet.
Yup. Very next time I turn on my Wii. I just haven't turned it on since the last time you asked. Tuesday, I reckon.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
DavidDayton said:
Hey, perhaps I phrased it a bit strongly, but I do think that Ocarina has been overhyped to the point at which it detracts from the series. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both got the traditional Zelda gameplay better than Ocarina did, which felt like a "light" Zelda in 3D, but pumped full of a somewhat overdone story.

Wait, to clarify, you're saying OoT's story was overdone?
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Green Shinobi said:
So you liked the best item in the game (the Gale Boomerang) being abandoned completely after the first dungeon? Bosses that you'd have to make an effort to lose to? Dungeon design where they put the key to a locked door in a chest right next to the door?
Oddly, I remember using the boomerang a bit throughout the game, saw the "key in a chest next to the door" as being the 3D equivalent of LoZ's "kill everything and get the key", and actually found the boss battles somewhat difficult at times... although, admittedly, that was because the bosses in Twilight were more puzzle based than damage based.

Ocarina killed TP in dungeon design for the most part, and it did a much better job of keeping the items integrated into the gameplay for longer than the duration of the dungeons where you find them.
Yep, I sure found myself using that slingshot and boomerang a LOT in Ocarina, ESPECIALLY later in the game. Cough.

Oblivion said:
Wait, to clarify, you're saying OoT's story was overdone?
I should be more careful in my word choice, I suppose. Overdone yet underdeveloped... plot holes riddling a tapestry coated with rich details and bizarre contradictions.

Again, I LIKED Zelda, but I wouldn't say its story was its highpoint. That, or I'm just a grouch who is sick of the OCARINA IZ ZEE GREATEST GAME EVR! crowds and as a result I'm being overly harsh towards the game itself.
 
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