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[Cleve]

How many times have apple claimed to make gaming a focus just to neglect it less than three months later?

Even as well as games do as a revenue stream on the iphone they just don't seem to be interested in treating them as a priority.

 

[Caronte]

How many times have apple claimed to make gaming a focus just to neglect it less than three months later?

Even as well as games do as a revenue stream on the iphone they just don't seem to be interested in treating them as a priority.

Zero.

 

[Maybesew]

How many times have apple claimed to make gaming a focus just to neglect it less than three months later?

Even as well as games do as a revenue stream on the iphone they just don't seem to be interested in treating them as a priority.

I think context matters a lot here. The new apple tv can "heavily focus on gaming" and still not necessarily be targeting xbox and playstation as competitors.

This is just yet another screen to play apps/games on. Whether its crossy road or lara croft go, or whatever.

And while I don't think there is any replacement for actually controller with buttons, having a touch screen remote that isn't also the display improves the concept of "virtual buttons." one of the worst aspects of virtual buttons on the iPhone is that you are covering up part of your playing screen with your thumbs so that you can press them. this at least gets rid of that downside. And if they can pair with 3rd party bluetooth controllers, and support physical buttons via sdk, then thats even better.

It will never compete with xb1 and ps4 or any console, but it's just yet another extension of the ecosystem.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Here is my estimate on Apple TV shipments since launch-

Just to give people an idea of how well the product has done so far purely as a digital media streaming device for the home.

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

Total: 25.2 million

Roku >10m
Chromecast >17m
Fire TV ????


USA ONLY-

There are 35.7 million media streaming devices installed in homes across the US as of March 31st 2015.

The install base of PlayStation 4, Xbox One and Wii U is at 20.2 million.

 

[Boombloxer]

My point was that this doesn't have to target current Console owners. If it gets enough traction to absorb development dollars and interest, and becomes mass market enough in terms of installed base to make waves, it could indirectly lead to a further decline in software available for the Consoles and basically strangle that market further.

Exceedingly doubtful. No buttons, and that's that.

 

[Rockstar Beaver]

I can't wait for this to come out! It is the second coming of VHS! Apple is going to re-invent gaming as we know it!

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

After watching the FireTV's gaming ambitions go up in smoke I can't see Apple getting it right.

but hey i'm willing to be proven wrong

 

[CosmicQueso]

Exceedingly doubtful. No buttons, and that's that.

Buttons sure saved the dedicated handheld market from mobile.

Right now I don't see it as a threat to the console industry if it's just going to play mobile games but primarily be a digital media streaming device.

Unless it starts to get its own ecosystem and large third party publishers onboard then I can see what you say happening. But even with a large install base this will need gaming software to ever be a threat.

Indirect threat.

At some point (we're already seeing it IMO) the reduction in breadth and depth of available software on the Consoles is a limiting factor on overall growth potential of the segment. If a new market is found to be appealing and viable that further supports and expands the mobile/tablet market you don't think dev resources would be diverted from risky Console development to something like this?

I can tell you it absolutely would.

It's a big if, and of course GAF is fully against this potentially happening. But it's absolutely possible.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Here is my estimate on Apple TV shipments since launch-

Just to give people an idea of how well the product has done so far purely as a digital media streaming device for the home.

Apple TV estimated shipments - ZhugeEX
2007- 0.3 million
2008- 0.3 million
2009- 0.7 million
2010- 1.6 million
2011- 2.8 million
2012- 6.5 million
2013- 7.0 million
2014- 6.0 million

Total: 25.2 million

Roku >10m
Chromecast >17m
Fire TV ????

There are 35.7 million media streaming devices installed in homes across the US as of March 31st 2015.

The install base of PlayStation 4, Xbox One and Wii U is at 20.2 million.

Thats actually really interesting. Either there is a fairly small market for streamers or the market for games is much more attractive, which could lead to them changing the boxes focus. I bet a number of those Apple TV or equivalents are sold to the same people as well.

 

[jbug617]

I expect them to bring out Epic and Chair and debut a new Infinity Blade game.

 

[RedSwirl]

I think this will at the very least get a lot more developer support than the Fire TV, Ouya, and pretty much any other microconsole that's existed in the past. If the Apple Watch got as much developer support as it did -- developers specifically tailoring apps and games towards it, the Apple TV should get at least that much.

Plus, It's probably already going to run existing iOS apps and games, if only in some kind of weird compatibility mode. Existing iOS-compatible traditional controllers (think iPad controllers) will probably work out of the box too. Given this, there are probably already plenty that would work just fine on a new Apple TV, or work fine after small updates from the developers. Minecraft, the older GTA games, KOTOR 1 & 2, all those SNK games, the Sonic games, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, etc.

After that I could see some developers trying to design iOS games specifically for the living room experience, maybe even the family experience. You could end up seeing some kind of Candy Crush living room family equivalent or something. It won't happen right away, but eventually. Though, this probably depends on the Apple TV becoming established as an essential living room media device for a lot of people. In that capacity it will probably be like the other set top boxes, but with iOS's existing developer support and selection of apps. Pretty much any media app you can currently get on your iPhone will probably be able to run in some capacity on the new Apple TV day one.

Edit: And no, I don't think this will pull everybody away from PlayStation and Xbox. It might pull away a lot more of the mass market though, or assure they never go back to PlayStation and Xbox. The two sides in the end will probably look starkly different from one another, with all the massive AAA boxed games taking up an even greater portion of the PlayStation and Xbox space, and more of the indies being on the Apple TV. Or something.

 

[Shenmue]

I'm probably going to end up getting it for streaming media, games is just a bonus. I guess it'll be my Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy machine maybe.

 

[Maybesew]

Exceedingly doubtful. No buttons, and that's that.

3rd party controllers have buttons. And that's that?

 

[ZhugeEX]

Thats actually really interesting. Either there is a fairly small market for streamers or the market for games is much more attractive, which could lead to them changing the boxes focus. I bet a number of those Apple TV or equivalents are sold to the same people as well.

Some more data purely about the US market for digital media streaming devices-

• At 3.5 million units, more Digital Media Streamers were shipped in the USA in Q1 2015 than Smart TVs, IP connectable Games Consoles or Smart Blu-ray Players.
  
• The number of PlayStation 4's, Xbox One's and Wii U's shipped in Q1 2015 in the USA is estimated to be at 1.9 million units. 1.6 million less than Digital Media Streamers
  
• Since its launch in 2007, Apple has shipped in excess of 15 million Apple TV units followed by Roku at nearly 13.5 million. Over 8.5 million Chromecast streaming dongles have shipped and close to 4.5 million Amazon Fire TVs.
  
• A total of 35.7 million Digital Media Streamers are now installed in US homes while approximately 32% of US broadband homes own at least one such device.
  
• Worldwide shipments of Apple TV have exceeded 25 million units, Chromecast has exceeded 10 million worldwide.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Apple TV will kill consoles the same way apple music killed Spotify.

 

[FtsH]

Wii has come to Apple ?

 

[SMattera]

I think it should be viewed as a console, not a Roku replacement.

A console that:

-Is cheaper
-Fully digital
-Interfaces with the smartphone in your pocket, the watch on your wrist, and the tablet on your coffee table (if you're an iOS fan)
-Doesn't use a standard controller (assuming)
-Is less powerful than the PS4/Xbox One, but may be more powerful in 2-3 years
-From a widely recognized brand with immense consumer loyalty
-Will probably be upgraded each and every year going forward

 

[maniac-kun]

Well if they add real controllers and developers target that. Who needs consoles anymore?

 

[Cleve]

Zero.

1999:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-goes-after-gamers-with-gusto/

It starting at early as macworld '99 when they announced Virtual Game Station and Quake 3 being first Demo'ed on a mac with a renewed commitment to gaming. Halo was also first demoed as part of Apple's renwed focus on gaming.

They didn't follow up with the hardware support (and bungie was bought) and it dwindled and died off.

Here's one from 2008:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/apple-shows-renewed-commitment-to-games-says-hollenshead

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs' keynote speech at the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference last year suggests that the company has a renewed focus on games." That isn't a direct quote from jobs mind, you.

Where did that wind up?

Apple have a history of talking big about gaming, but not really putting the money in to back it up. Maybe that will change given how different the market is today.

 

[Spukc]

goodbye sony and microsoft
the casuals rule the market.

 

[glaringradio]

Some more data purely about the US market for digital media streaming devices-

• At 3.5 million units, more Digital Media Streamers were shipped in the USA in Q1 2015 than Smart TVs, IP connectable Games Consoles or Smart Blu-ray Players.
  
• The number of PlayStation 4's, Xbox One's and Wii U's shipped in Q1 2015 in the USA is estimated to be at 2 million units. 1.5 million less than Digital Media Streamers
  
• Since its launch in 2007, Apple has shipped in excess of 15 million Apple TV units followed by Roku at nearly 13.5 million. Over 8.5 million Chromecast streaming dongles have shipped and close to 4.5 million Amazon Fire TVs.
  
• A total of 35.7 million Digital Media Streamers are now installed in US homes while approximately 32% of US broadband homes own at least one such device.
  
• Worldwide shipments of Apple TV have exceeded 25 million units, Chromecast has exceeded 10 million worldwide.

Would love to get some real world usage statistics for these devices. Honestly, I don't know anybody who owns an Apple TV, beyond one person who managed to get a 2nd Gen one and use XBMC with it. Meanwhile I know dozens of people who have a Chromecast and use it actively.

 

[Mr Swine]

Oh I somewhat want to see this become a huge success just so that Sony, MS and Nintendo have to struggle with the console market but that would be horrible for us gamers

 

[Caronte]

I remember it starting at early as macworld '99 when they announced Virtual Game Station and Quake 3 being first Demo'ed on a mac with a renewed commitment to gaming. Halo was first demoed as part of Apple's renwed focus on gaming.

They didn't follow up with the hardware support (and bungie was bought) and it dwindled and died off.

Here's one from 2008:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/apple-shows-renewed-commitment-to-games-says-hollenshead

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs' keynote speech at the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference last year suggests that the company has a renewed focus on games." That isn't a direct quote from jobs mind, you.

Where did that wind up?

Apple have a history of talking big about gaming, but not really putting the money in to back it up. Maybe that will change given how different the market is today.

I'm talking about modern Apple, after the iPhone (where Macs are less important). Every year there is the same rumor (or whatever you want to call it) about Apple launching a competitor for the consoles and it's never true. Gaming is not something they particularly care about. Not more than any other app.

 

[maniac-kun]

Oh I somewhat want to see this become a huge success just so that Sony, MS and Nintendo have to struggle with the console market but that would be horrible for us gamers

I care about games not companies. If the old guys are doomed. Then they got stuck for too long in their ancient way of doing things.

 

[Peltz]

Beginning of the end for consoles.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

I can't wait for this to come out! It is the second coming of VHS! Apple is going to re-invent gaming as we know it!

LOL, I get it, the sheep are supposed to stand for the consumers who buy apple devices every year! iSheep! LOL! You my friend are one creative person, so original!

 

[infiniteloop]

Now one thing being left out is if the new box supports MFi controllers, well then you have an ACTUAL PS360 capable console.. BUT historically Apple has only allowed MFi controller support as an "also", not an "only".

Says in the article they'll support MFi controllers.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

why not just put physical buttons on the thing too? then we could talk.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Would love to get some real world usage statistics for these devices. Honestly, I don't know anybody who owns an Apple TV, beyond one person who managed to get a 2nd Gen one and use XBMC with it. Meanwhile I know dozens of people who have a Chromecast and use it actively.

It's hard to get that kind of data. All we know is that there are at least 35.7 million in use today.

That number should grow. Especially with an estimated total of almost 18 million streaming devices being shipped in the US this year.

But yeh, these devices just have a one off type of usage really. For streaming content.

Should the Apple TV rumours prove true then it brings some more aspects to the device.

 

[Etnos]

This could be cool

 

[Kayant]

So console generation ends here heh.... It's been good. I better enjoy the time I have left on X360 at least I got a PC to save me from the mobile invasion.

 

[Placiibo]

Beginning of the end for consoles.

Its an apple console. Gamers always want the next big iteration of their favorite franchises. If Apple can deliver the specs, who am I to argue? If they don't deliver the specs, they wont get the big 3rd party games, thus not ending consoles.

If this generation has taught us anything, it's that consoles are more popular than ever.

http://www.gamesradar.com/PS4-on-track-beat-PS2-best-selling-console/

"In its quarterly earnings Sony has reported sales of three million PS4s in the last three months, taking overall sales to an incredible 25.3 million consoles.

This figure positively sails past the two years and eight months it took for PS2 to reach 20 million. Given that the PS2 went on to being the biggest selling console ever with over 155 million sold, I'd say this is some positive news. Plus, due to dropping production costs on the console, Sony's profits have also soared 350% with a 12% uplift in sales from the same period last year."

 

[maniac-kun]

Its an apple console. Gamers always want the next big iteration of their favorite franchises. If Apple can deliver the specs, who am I to argue? If they don't deliver the specs, they wont get the big 3rd party games, thus not ending consoles.

If this generation has taught us anything, it's that consoles are more popular than ever.

http://www.gamesradar.com/PS4-on-track-beat-PS2-best-selling-console/

"In its quarterly earnings Sony has reported sales of three million PS4s in the last three months, taking overall sales to an incredible 25.3 million consoles.

This figure positively sails past the two years and eight months it took for PS2 to reach 20 million. Given that the PS2 went on to being the biggest selling console ever with over 155 million sold, I'd say this is some positive news. Plus, due to dropping production costs on the console, Sony's profits have also soared 350% with a 12% uplift in sales from the same period last year."

If Apple shows us a traditional controller that they made for this thing. Sony has a huge problem. They are then competing with a platform that has yearly hardware upgrades. Its only a matter of time for the i devices to surpass the PS4 gen. And Google wont sit still if Apple does that.

 

[borghe]

Says in the article they'll support MFi controllers.

but look at the whole part you quoted. I knew it would support MFi controllers. The problem is that Apple has only allowed developers to implement them as an optional scheme. This has had two effects.. first, the other part is that there has to be FUNCTIONAL touch controls in the game.. so a dev HAS to spend time to make sure that the touch controls are "good". The second part to this is... well just priority. Physical controllers CAN'T take priority/time over touch controls, because the former is optional (by apple's requirements) while the latter is required.

I honestly feel apple has to allow for mandatory MFi controls in games.. i.e. developers have to be allowed to make games that require a controller.

 

[ZhugeEX]

Also I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Amazon Fire TV here which advertises one of its features as being a gaming device capable of playing popular Android games like Minecraft and Grand Theft Auto. There is also a controller but it's sold separately which is one issue. The other issue being that Amazon aren't exactly pushing the fact it plays games or getting exclusive content/large third parties onboard.

Although the Amazon Fire TV has already outsold the Wii U in the US so maybe it is taking over haha!

 

[BiggNife]

Also I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Amazon Fire TV here which advertises one of its features as being a gaming device capable of playing popular Android games like Minecraft and Grand Theft Auto. There is also a controller but it's sold separately which is one issue. The other issue being that Amazon aren't exactly pushing the fact it plays games or getting exclusive content/large third parties onboard.

Like 3 people have already mentioned this

 

[Placiibo]

If Apple shows us a traditional controller that they made for this thing. Sony has a huge problem. They are then competing with a platform that has yearly hardware upgrades. Its only a matter of time for the i devices to surpass the PS4 gen. And Google wont sit still if Apple does that.

Sounds good to me. Until they get COD, Madden, GTA, AC, etc on there, it's not going to cut into the big 3 that much. If the specs match current gen hardware, look out.

 

[Zee-Row]

I doubt this will do anything to consoles. The whole reason console and handhelds lost casuals to Apple is because an iphone is simple to use and you can pawn it off to you crying toddler to shut him up. People don't want to play Candy Crush on a big TV.

 

[Mindwipe]

Apple doesn't care about gaming. The MFI programming has killed the iOS controller !arket with incompetence. They have completely neglected Game Center and clearly have no idea how to fix it or build a coherent infrastructure - even Nintendo are way ahead.

This box is not about gaming. It's about TV first, home automation second and gaming third, from a team with a poor execution record in a sector Apple is doing uncharacteristicly badly in.

Since when has that been a roadmap for success?

Remember, Apple are playing catch up with this box because they have completely dropped the ball on for over five years. Why assume they will destroy all now, in a market that requires a level focus they clearly have no interest in giving?

 

[Rushersauce]

LOL, I get it, the sheep are supposed to stand for the consumers who buy apple devices every year! iSheep! LOL! You my friend are one creative person, so original!

Lol. Says the one using sarcasm

 

[maniac-kun]

Apple doesn't care about gaming.

Well Steve Jobs didnt but he isnt around anymore. He was actualy against games for some reasons.

Here is what some famous developer had to say about this:

Eurogamer: Last night you said Apple doesn't really "deeply get" games. What did you mean by that? And, like Nintendo, do they really need to?


John Carmack: Over the years I've been through a number of initiatives where Apple wants to get serious about games, and we've done things with them. The idea way back with Quake 3 on there, that was my deal with Steve Jobs: if Apple adopts OpenGL rather than going off and doing QuickTime3D or something else of their own which was going to be a bad idea, then I'll personally port the Quake 3 stuff rather than working with a partner company on that. And we went through all that. All of our Apple ports have been successful - they've all made money - but it's marginal money, and we have worked with Aspyr usually on all the other ones after that, but I do think it kind of comes from the top.

The truth is Steve Jobs doesn't care about games. This is going to be one of those things that I say something in an interview and it gets fed back to him and I'm on his s***head list for a while on that, until he needs me to do something else there. But I think that that's my general opinion. He's not a gamer. It's difficult to ask somebody to get behind something they don't really believe in. I mean obviously he believes in the music and the iTunes and that whole side of things, and the media side of things, and he gets it and he pushes it and they do wonderful things with that, but he's not a gamer. That's just the bottom line about it.

There are people at Apple who want to support all this - and there's no roadblocks for us right now, we're going to support the Mac on Rage, we hope to get a version of Quake Live going up on the Mac there - but it's just that's not what the Mac platform's about, and I don't really expect that to change because it's a tough equation now that you've got everybody dual-booting their Macs and everything: why would you want to go to the extra trouble of [developing games for Mac]?

But I think the iPhone is a potentially extremely important platform for a lot of reasons, and I think it could be the type of thing that really makes inroads into...does it kill the PSP. There are structural reasons why it's not going to kill the DS in there, but it certainly should be in there in the running there as a device that you can get modern, quality games for something, and I think it's a great platform for content and new talent on there.

One of the best opportunities for years right now is for two guys to make a project - you know, an artist and a programmer - to go make something on the iPhone, and I think there are people that can make a couple of million dollars probably by having some breakout success that nobody's ever heard of, and I think that that's a really awesome opportunity right now.

 

[dracula_x]

I'm sure you guys won't leave your consoles, and I doubt people will want to replace a console with an Apple TV, but if Apple is good with anything, it's marketing and the casual user. They have the potential to increase demand for gaming in a casual sense, which could eventually prove very lucrative as it has on phones by sheer ubiquity of the devices. If this drags some of those casual users away from their console purchases, enough to effect the consoles, you can bet Sony and Microsoft will start to push the same agenda. While not doom and gloom for the consoles, I'm pretty sure there would be a fuck load of complaining, especially if it gets to a point where some developers choose the more lucrative path.

Of course this is all hypotheticals, and could just be a fart in the wind

Casual users are already on mobile. Plus, in terms of games, I'm pretty sure AppleTV will be compete with mobile phones, not consoles.

 

[Trago]

Great, now design you're own standardized controller and we're golden. Seriously, third party controllers are trash.

 

[Chittagong]

I saw this coming in 2012.

Truly my thread has helped spur Apple in introducing the App store into the Apple TV.

Tsk tsk, it was already old news in 2012, because I had given them the idea in 2011

 

[sometimes i game]

Mobile games on tv? No thanks. I'm surprised at the battery coming from apple, seems many people gave Microsoft crap for putting AA batteries in the xbone controller.

Why is this where the thinking auto goes. So disappointing.

Experiences could be made just for this. There are already tons of iOS games that are amazing with - or despite of - the touch control system.

I dislike seeing "smartphone games on tv lol next" when it comes to Apple TV or Android/Ouya/whatever. There are console games on there with cheap pricepoints. There are indie devs who can make console games for controllers using these platforms. It's dangerous to just right it off because it's system DNA is mobile

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Casual users are already on mobile. Plus, in terms of games, I'm pretty sure AppleTV will be compete with mobile phones, not consoles.

Yep, completely agree. The casual market they might steal are already using their phones for gaming. They're not going to cannabalize Nintendo (seriously saw some tech pundits saying this) nor are they going to take down gaming consoles.

The potential for focus here could purely be them making the experience better than just airplaying your screen. These devices will sell as a TV/streaming device first, gaming second.

 

[Trago]

Also, if gaming is a focus, then the big guys gotta bring experiences commonly associated with consoles to this thing.

 

[krizalidzero]

I think of this as a response to the Nvidia Shield Android TV.

I do have hopes for it.

 

[CosmicQueso]

They're not going to cannabalize Nintendo (seriously saw some tech pundits saying this)

True, there's so little share left for Apple to take.

Also not sure Nintendo is the best example of a Console publisher staying Console since they're making experiences special to mobile.

 

[Of All Trades]

Why is this where the thinking auto goes. So disappointing.

Experiences could be made just for this. There are already tons of iOS games that are amazing with - or despite of - the touch control system.

I dislike seeing "smartphone games on tv lol next" when it comes to Apple TV or Android/Ouya/whatever. There are console games on there with cheap pricepoints. There are indie devs who can make console games for controllers using these platforms. It's dangerous to just right it off because it's system DNA is mobile

Assuming Apple allows devs to make touch/controller hybrid games the impact to quality will be significant. The Fire TV has the same problem, outside of old ports of console games (which are frequently hobbled a bit and in weird ways to work on the oldest supported phones) everything else is clearly a touch game first. Even touch games that play better with a controller still play noticeably poorer than they should because the development was not focused on a controller-based game.