• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Are consoles done in Japan? And what could that mean for the West?

When I walk into a Tokyo game, I see little reason for Japanese gamers to move onto a PS4 console just yet. The games are not there, or PS3/Vita versions are also available.

Examples:
Dragon Quest Builders PS4/PS3/Vita
Star Ocean 5 PS4/PS3
Ryu ga Gotoku Kiwami PS4/PS3
Ikenie to Yuki no Setsuna PS3/Vita

I don't agree next gen and consoles have been abandoned, but there is less immediate incentive to upgrade. Games like Dark Souls 3 or Final Fantasy XV will likely change that.

This seems wrong to me. Having a cursory knowledge of the media create threads, PS3 sales have dried up and PS4 versions of games have lately done better. PS3 hardware sales are done. Basically, they've seen a shift to the PS4 in Japan but the numbers are still poor. Unless this gen lasts 7 or 8 years again, the PS4 won't outsell the PS3 in Japan.

I agree with the article premise: consoles are done in Japan. This has less predictive value in the West because the lifestyles are so different. The living room / entertainment centre is going strong in North America at least and the A/V experience a home console provides still has a market here. I can't see that changing too much in the next 10 years.
 
No they're not.
(Disclaimer: this is my experience, so calm down in advance)
In all the time I have lived here (13 years) it is a pretty dire situation now.
From what I can see around me it looks grim. I only know 2 people with a PS4 and they only tend to play (get this) western games.
3DS is popular with kids but I have never seen an adult playing one.
It tends to be all smartphones!
Lets hope the NX can turn things around!

There is nothing to turn around .
The days of consoles selling big in Japan like they used to are long gone because of many factors .
When some people say they expect them to be find they are not talking about a huge number .
Just enough that Japanese devs will still make games for them ( which will also get ported to PC in the west)
So we looking any where from 6 to 10 million now and not like the old days .
 

bigjig

Member
I don't know why people are so reluctant to accept that console gaming is dying in JP. It has been for a while now, and will continue to do so. Yeah big releases will register over there, but it is NOTHING like it once was.

I think it is more a case of Japan previously punching well above its weight and now punching in line with its weight. What country besides the US accounts for over 3 million PS4 sales? I don't even think the UK has done that well, and the PS4 was on sale there for an extra holiday season.

Yet Japan selling 2.5 million PS4s without a heavy hitting software lineup is enough to pronounce it dead apparently.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
When I walk into a Tokyo game, I see little reason for Japanese gamers to move onto a PS4 console just yet. The games are not there, or PS3/Vita versions are also available.

Examples:
Dragon Quest Builders PS4/PS3/Vita
Star Ocean 5 PS4/PS3
Ryu ga Gotoku Kiwami PS4/PS3
Ikenie to Yuki no Setsuna PS3/Vita

I don't agree next gen and consoles have been abandoned, but there is less immediate incentive to upgrade. Games like Dark Souls 3 or Final Fantasy XV will likely change that.

But they have moved onto the PS4 from the PS3. Check the Japanese sales nowadays.
 

leroidys

Member
But they have moved onto the PS4 from the PS3. Check the Japanese sales nowadays.

It's about momentum as well though. You don't get the person enough incentive to buy the new device, they hang on to their PS3 and may or may not stay engaged with the game market. You get them to throw down ~$300 to upgrade to shiny new(er) tech, they are more likely to follow up that purchase with the purchase of software, and stay more engaged as a customer. It's a virtuous cycle to some extent.
 

Zhao_Yun

Member
I think a lot of Japanese publishers are trying to increase their audience in the other Asian markets to make up for the decline in Japan. Lots of upcoming games from SEGA and Square have already been announced for Asian localizations while the West is still waiting (Yakuza 6, Dragon Quest Builders). It helps that anime visuals are quite popular in most Asian countries whereas it can be more difficult to sell those games in the West.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
It's about momentum as well though. You don't get the person enough incentive to buy the new device, they hang on to their PS3 and may or may not stay engaged with the game market. You get them to throw down ~$300 on shiny new(er) tech, they are more likely to follow up that purchase with the purchase of software, and stay more engaged as a customer. It's a virtuous cycle to some extent.

I'm not sure what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that PS4 SKUs are consistently outperforming their PS3 SW counterparts nowadays in Japan. It's not like they're buying PS4s and not buying games for them.
 

leroidys

Member
I'm not sure what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that PS4 SKUs are consistently outperforming their PS3 SW counterparts nowadays in Japan. It's not like they're buying PS4s and not buying games for them.

Right, I'm saying it's not enough that PS4 SKUs are outselling PS3 SKUs at this point in their respective lifecycles. I'm aiming this towards the premise of the thread, that videogame consoles in Japan are moribund.

The distinction I was drawing was that you said "they had moved on to PS4". Some have, but it looks like the attrition rate is really high this gen, and the fact that many of these games are available on PS3 could be contributing, despite head-to-head sales comparisons.
 
PS4-Hardware-sales-asia.jpg

Thank you very much :)
 

biocat

Member
PS4 releases are consistently outselling PS3 but not Vita. Look at recent multi-plats like Exist Archive and Odin Sphere.

Multi-gen/plats means less incentive to adopt new expensive hardware.

Long work hours and stigma against adults playing games have been around for long before even the PS3 came out.
 

RexNovis

Banned
If Japan doesnt matter to Playstation then why do they have over 50 Japanese developed games confirmed to be in development for the platform?


Code:
1. Final Fantasy XV
2. Final Fantasy VII REMAKE
3. Persona 5
4. Dissidia Final Fantasy 
5. Nier Automata
6. Project Setsuna 
7. Dragon Quest XI
8. Dragon Quest Heroes II
9. Dragon Quest Builders
10. Kingdom Hearts III
11. Kingdom Hearts II.8 
12. Star Ocean V
13. Ace Combat 7
14. Gundam Breaker 3
15. Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana
16. Tekken 7
17. Summer Lesson
18. Digimom Story Cyber Sleuth
19. Yakuza 6
20. Yakuza 1 Remake
21. REZ Infinite
22. Shenmue 3
23. Valkyria Chronicles Remastered
24. Valkyria of the Azure Revolution
25. Street Fighter V
26. The King of Fighters XIV
27. New Danganronpa 3
28. Dark Souls 3
29. Ni-Oh
30. Ni no Kuni II
31. Tales of Berseria
32. World of Final Fantasy
33. 13 Sentinels
34. DOAX3
35. Toukiden 2
36. Attack on the Titan
37. Arslan: The Warriors of Legend
38. Gravity Rush 2
39. Samurai Warriors 4: Empires
40. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven
41. Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir
42. Sword Art Online: Hollow Realization
43. Last Guardian
44. Senran Kagura: Estival Vs
45. Yoru no Nai Kuni
46. Danganronpa V3
47. Wattam
48. Witch and The Hundred Knight 2

And those are just the ones I can recall. I remember counting almost 60 of them a couple months ago. You can say "Japan doesn't matter to Playstation anymore" all you want but their actions securing, promoting, and funding Japanese developed games for the platform speak otherwise.

Using WW hardware sales split ratios as some sort of indication of the country`s value is incredibly flawed. Especially when it is selling better than the PS3 was in the region and better than both PS3 and PS2 across all of Asia.

The reason that the WW split is lower is because of the success Sony is seeing in emerging markets like the Middle East. So the fact that the platform is selling more in new markets doesn't, in any way, diminish the importance of their home market.
 
When I walk into a Tokyo game, I see little reason for Japanese gamers to move onto a PS4 console just yet. The games are not there, or PS3/Vita versions are also available.

Examples:
Dragon Quest Builders PS4/PS3/Vita
Star Ocean 5 PS4/PS3
Ryu ga Gotoku Kiwami PS4/PS3
Ikenie to Yuki no Setsuna PS3/Vita

I don't agree next gen and consoles have been abandoned, but there is less immediate incentive to upgrade. Games like Dark Souls 3 or Final Fantasy XV will likely change that.

People in Japan have been picking up PS4 versions of games over PS3 versions since MGS V: TPP. Proof is in the media create numbers.

PS3 is kind of irrelevant now. PS Vita? Now that I may agree with you on.
 
We (read: non-japanese folks) will shoulder the majority of the burden of the dedicated Japanese gaming industry's output. DQ XI, FF XV, big REs, etc will do 7 figures over there, but all this small/niche stuff's growth (and they do need growth to keep the lights on at Falcom, Platinum, Idea Fuck, etc) will come here, as the domestic market continues to grow only in indifference to new IP, new dedicated consoles, and the like that drives the rest of the world.

The economy ain't doing them any favors either, and Abenomics continues to shovel dirt on the kid/teen/20s/30s discretionary spending.

The PS4 will do "ok", PC will be "ok", then NX is a cipher that will either bomb or be the next Famicom/Wii/GB/DS.

Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
I don't know why people are so reluctant to accept that console gaming is dying in JP. It has been for a while now, and will continue to do so. Yeah big releases will register over there, but it is NOTHING like it once was.

Dying suggests the market is still shrinking which compared to PS3 isn't true.
 

MoonFrog

Member
There are two things going on with PS and Japan as I see it:

-There is a concerted push by people like Square to "get people to buy PS4." The Japanese industry realizes the mess it finds itself in (and to a large extent put itself in) and is, with the help of U4 it is trying to get its act together.

-That said, don't take that entirely at face value. Consider Dragon Quest XI. Seems for all the world that that is on 3DS for Japan and on PS4 to try and take a stab at the world market. I think this has wider truth. The hope of this Japanese wave coming on PS4 is that Japan gets excited and buys into PS again. That would be great. But the PS4 is also where those games need to be to get at the wider market.

Japan doesn't matter to PS in that PS could easily stand without it. PS's biggest market and biggest games are western. PS is positioned well to survive the fall of Japanese console gaming if it happens. Sony realizes this and things like the restructure being discussed show that.

Nintendo's biggest market may be in the west, but they rely largely on Japanese talent and have given Japanese market concerns particular weight for the last decade or so. With NX we will see if Nintendo finally reorients itself towards the west or retains its focus on reinvigorating Japanese gaming. Is NX Iwata sticking to his core mission (with Wii, Wii U) or abandoning it? I am very curious if Nintendo is going to try to get Japan to buy home console NX or if they have given up and decided just to fight for the existence handheld space there. (I mean they are even going mobile so is that a failsafe against failure even in the handheld space?)

Tbh, I'd be worried for Nintendo in the long run if the home and handheld markets both shrink too much. Who will be inspired to work for them? For this and other obvious reasons they need to expand their development in the west.
 

TheXbox

Member
This year seems disproportionately heavy on big Japanese console games relative to the past five or six years, so... I don't know. Not a whole lot? There's still a ton of talented studios and designers out there, and evidently there's still demand for Japanese titles. I think Capcom, Square, and Nintendo getting their shit together could propel this resurgence a lot further.

Japan was always the minority in terms of WW sales for most Japanese titles. Even if their geriatric population fucks off to their phones for the rest of eternity, Japanese publishers are only losing a small (but not insignificant!) chunk of their sales.
 
Yep this is same as my response to this article, there is so much more support coming out this generation than the last, and PSVR has the possibility of kicking things into overdrive. NX is a mystery at the moment. Xbox is irrelevant in the Japanese market, I'm just glad they're not using cockblocking scorched earth tactics like last generation.

Completely agree.

And I'm looking forward to a ton of games like in that above list so some of the studios and together with Sony at least seem to be getting back to the type of stuff people want from them after last gen.

And along the couple of late releases at end of last year, this year they'll finally have titles to hopefully continue motivating to make the purchase. I could see it getting a second half boost like PS3 did as a slew of these games finally start releasing in succession especially since it's starting from a better position than the PS3 did as games like the first real next-gen FF finally arrive. As was said they've seemingly finally reached the point where PS4 versions are selling better and some key ones like FF will only have a PS4 version.
 
I doubt much will change. Traditional consoles are still selling gangbusters. Japan is a pretty small population/demographic and doesn't really make or break things anymore. I think as time goes on we are going to look back at that 10-15 year period when Japan was the epicenter of the video game industry as some sort of crazy fluke.
 
That basically means that we will no longer have to wait long times for localizations, as we will be the main target audience of japanese console games.
 

Mr_Moogle

Member
I just don't understand the Japanese market. Why would any self respecting gamer want to go mobile only? That sounds like hell on earth to me.
 
If Japan doesnt matter to Playstation then why do they have over 50 Japanese developed games confirmed to be in development for the platform?

That's completely unrelated. Like those Japanese companies are just going to liquidate because Japan's market is drying up? A lot of those titles do better with western audiences than they do with the Japanese. A few of the games you listed are also remakes, which is just cashing in on previously developed properties.
 

Josh5890

Member
There are still a few very key franchises that haven't made a strong hold in the mobile/handheld market like Street Fighter. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy have strong handheld games but the big FF games still come out on consoles.
 
Indeed you are. That's honestly some rather heavy clickbait.

Incidentally, Wii U, PS4 and PS Vita just had the biggest holiday season in Japan since their release, and by a very long shot.

Considering the Japanese games coming for PS4 in the next year or so, the article seems to be pretty much entirely out of touch, and not just in the headline.

Should have researched better, and kept the headline more grounded instead of going for the clickbait.



Considering the bad numbers they've been pulling, yes, that pretty much tells everything you need to know.
 

patapuf

Member
I think we have seen a lot of what a heavily diminshed console prescence in japan means since the market already imploded last gen

Maybe the PS4 or the next Ninendo thing will stop the shrinking but i don't think consoles are going to be massively popular again anytime soon (there's some really opitimistic people in this thread).

Asia is certainly a growth market but if you look at the moves the japanese pubs are making in Asia it's not for traditional console games.

That said, the games GAF is into from Japan will be fine. It's not like they need to sell a lot of copies to be viable. And the franchises that are still big are made for the international market anyway.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
You can't ignore the spectacle of competition, it's like most of the reason PS4 was a success in the west.

Is it that hard to consider it is succeeding because of its own merits, because it is a great console with lots of software coming for it and exciting prospects (see also PSVR) rather than attributing the bulk of its success to their competitor fu£&ing up or the "spectacle of competition"?
 

cantona222

Member
You're looking at one of them right here. And I've been playing games since the Arcades/NES days.

I like Western games as well, but it'll be hard for me to move on without Japanese games involved.

I am interested to know all the console games you played in the last 2 years. Not much Japanese games pop into my mind.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
Bruh, are you seriously trying to argue that videogame consoles have not tanked in Japan this generation?

It is down but not extreme.

PS3 reached 2 million (Japan) in April 2008, that's 17 months post launch.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ps3-passes-2-million-mark-in-japan

PS4 reached 2 million (Japan) in November 2015, that's 21 months post launch. (Or 4 months difference)

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2015/11/ps4_smashes_two_million_sales_milestone_in_japan

Seems all a bit - Mountain > Molehill to me.
 

Powerpuff

Member
The mixed sells of the PS4 in Japan could be a chance for Nintendo to come back stronger. I am sad for the Wii U fate but the NX has to come soon. 2016 will be the 30th anniversary of Dragon Quest, still one of the biggest franchise in Japan and Dragon Quest XI will probably be the biggest game to celebrate it. If the NX could be ready for the Dragon Quest XI launch, it would be an incredible system seller. Now just add a NX enhanced version of Zelda U, maybe some more surprises and Nintendo could start very strong.
 

patapuf

Member
It is down but not extreme.

PS3 reached 2 million (Japan) in April 2008, that's 17 months post launch.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ps3-passes-2-million-mark-in-japan

PS4 reached 2 million (Japan) in November 2015, that's 21 months post launch. (Or 4 months difference)

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2015/11/ps4_smashes_two_million_sales_milestone_in_japan

Seems all a bit - Mountain > Molehill to me.

And now you add toghether all videogame consoles and not just the PS3 and the mountain becomes a lot higher. If you factor in traditional handhelds as well it's even worse. I mean, games from japan won't disapear but i don't really understand where the huge optimism for the console industry itself is coming from.
 
Sony will get more than enough support by Japanese third party companies which want to tap into that international market that the PS4 provides but not the WiiU or the NX.
 

Zhao_Yun

Member
That basically means that we will no longer have to wait long times for localizations, as we will be the main target audience of japanese console games.

I think they'll shift their attention to the emerging Asian markets instead. Publishers such as Sega or Square Enix are trying to appeal to these markets by providing fast localizations of their games in Chinese or Korean, while the West doesn't even know whether they'll get those games at all. Games with amine visuals are probably easier to sell there than in the West as well.

Isn't PC gaming starting to actually take off in Japan as well?

I don't think so.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I doubt much will change. Traditional consoles are still selling gangbusters. Japan is a pretty small population/demographic and doesn't really make or break things anymore. I think as time goes on we are going to look back at that 10-15 year period when Japan was the epicenter of the video game industry as some sort of crazy fluke.

Or as a golden age...
 
It bears noting that the shrinking dedicated market in Japan comprises not only consoles, but handhelds as well; 3DS and Vita combined will end up selling 40% or so less than their predecessors combined.

Third parties that want to avoid going out of business, or going mobile-only, will increasingly have to look to markets outside Japan. PC support and other Asian territories, among other initiatives, are both significant parts of that.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
And now you add toghether all videogame consoles and not just the PS3 and the mountain becomes a lot higher. If you factor in traditional handhelds as well it's even worse. I mean, games from japan won't disapear but i don't really understand where the huge optimism for the console industry itself is coming from.

Aside from Xbox in the US, those other consoles aren't doing well anywhere, you can't just single out Japan for that.
 
I mean the JP market share has shifted to mobile almost entirely so, of course console and more mainstream gaming is going to be slightly marginalized. That doesn't mean it's going away, the market isn't carrying the system like it used to be able too but it's still a respectable, profitable region.
 

WolvenOne

Member
I feel inclined to point out that, the current situation is Japan is more or less acceptable. There's still enough of a market there to support console games coming out, but console games with an actual budget need to appeal to markets outside of Japan in order to justify the expense. Honestly, Japanese publishers should've been making a greater effort to fully crack western tastes long before now. Even during the hay-day of Japanese console gaming, the general idea was that games were designed with Japanese tastes in mind first, and if they happened to appeal to the west it was a big bonus. I believe this mind-set played a part in the decline in interest western audiences had for Japanese games starting around the middle of the last decade. Japanese publishers kept going primarily after Japanese audiences they thought would buy their games, which natively meant otaku for lack of better term. (No really, if you have a better term please let me know.) This in turn alienated a portion of the western audience, which resulted in Japanese games being considered somewhat of a niche in western audiences.

The PS4 has eased this situation somewhat, by simple virtue of the fact that Japanese publishers don't need to port games from one platform to another just to have a shot at reaching the bulk of the western audience. This makes localization a bit less expensive, and as such gives Japanese publishers some additional incentive to try to appeal to western audiences somewhat.

Or perhaps I'm just overthinking things somewhat.

Either way though, the current situation is acceptable, but not ideal. The ideal situation would be, that the Japanese audience alone could justify games with a AAA budget. While this may prevent some publishers from trying to crack the western audience, I do feel that there are some worthwhile game experiences we will probably never get from a Japanese game trying to reach western audiences. Perhaps one day that market will once again be able to support both types of game, but the situation is still never the less acceptable for now.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
I think PS4 is selling ok and will the the only and main console people will get in Japan. NX handheld is another thing but for stationary consoles I see Sony being the only one dominating in that field
 

Snakeyes

Member
I just don't understand the Japanese market. Why would any self respecting gamer want to go mobile only? That sounds like hell on earth to me.

The stigma of playing video games as an adult outweighs their desire to play on dedicated hardware. At least smartphones help you pretend that you're doing something else.
 
Top Bottom