Neoriceisgood
Member
Is this the thread to ask questions that the video outright answers?
Is this the thread to ask questions that the video outright answers?
Can't argue with any of the points she made in that video. The "too hard to animate" thing was always a fucking joke.
^But Ubi already do that in Brotherhood with the female assassins you recruit first as a normal female npc and later sharing the male assasion moveset and MP the females have the same moveset as the males
I disagree with this. I mean if you're animating in 3D you're barely gonna be touching the hair during a scene and unless you're talking about anime, the way hair is typically drawn in 2D is just as manageable as it is for male characters. And the breasts rarely ever need to be animated from my experience.
Well you are playing as an assassin. So you'd assume their walk cycle would reflect that via a walk cycle that emphasizes the silhouette.. Compared to someone like Nathan Drake, or compared to someone like Batman, who's walk emphasizes his size.
And again, in my experience from animating both 2D and 3D, it's not.
Again, it all comes down to what they look like and how you want them to move, this includes in a more natural movement.
Short hair woman with smaller, near non-existent breasts wearing a bikini vs a long hair obese man wearing nothing but shorts. I mean, if we're going to go with the more natural style and animation, I can tell you that obese man is gonna be hard to animate because of fat rolls alone.
Different clothes exist between the genders, some even wear the opposite gender's' clothing, so if a regular man is wearing a dress and a regular woman is wearing suit, the dress is going to be harder to animate regardless who wears it.
To make the my point clear; women are not at all harder to animate, not even a tiny bit, compared to men. It all comes down to how you design them and how you want to move them. Men are just as much capable to have long, extravagant hair just as women are capable of having short and unwavering hair. Men can wear long flowing robes while women can wear a shirt and pants. Natural or exaggerated, both have unlimited potential in design and animation, body, clothes, hair, chest, etc. One is not naturally harder or easier than the other.
What was her response to this? Is she ok with this?Oh my god, she did it - 2:50
I'm so glad she addressed this, so many people try and spin female combatants as "triggering" or some shit in an effort to try and exclude them so it's awesome that she has just shut it down.
What was her response to this? Is she ok with this?
A fair answer.She explains how having generic female enemies alongside generic male enemies is completely different than targeting specific female enemies just because they are female. She's okay with former but obviously not the latter. She gives examples of games that did it well (AC Syndicate and BioShock Infinite) and games that did it poorly. She thinks it's a good thing when done correctly.
Can't argue with any of the points she made in that video. The "too hard to animate" thing was always a fucking joke.
Amancio attempted to clear up any confusion, by stating, "I understand the issue, I understand the cause, and it is a noble one, but I don't think it's relevant in the case of Unity. In Unity you play this character called Arno, and when you're playing co-op you're also playing Arno everybody is. It's like Aiden Pearce in Watch Dogs... Arno has different skills - you select skill points in the game, there are gear elements that have an impact and all these weapons that make the character you make your own. But you're always playing Arno... The reason we're just changing the face and keeping the bodies is we want people to show off the gear that they pick up in the game through exploration. That's why we kept that."[46]
Is it really that hard to watch a 7 min video, video which is the subject of this thread, before posting?What was her response to this? Is she ok with this?
I know the game turned out rather poorly but that didn't lesson my disappointed when I loaded up Brink on my PS3 for the first time and found the character creator only had a male option. At first I thought, ok, they didn't have the budget for multiple animations of the player character and then I see that the character creator had 3 different body type options.
So they had no problem with going in and animating multiple body type animations but only for men.
Also I REALLY dislike when a game has a female soldier or mercenary type and her animation is more buxom beauty and coquettish than someone who looks hard and strong (yes it's fine to have both but women are not given the strong variety very often)
See also: Femshep's unnecessary toothpick arms. Like please don't shy away from giving female soldier or merc type characters some muscles.
I have faith they will do a lot better with Mass Effect: Andromeda but I still disliked this image they released last year. I believe it's supposed to be a design of the male and female Ryder and well the female soldier's armour looks legit and awesome like the male's, I was annoyed they had her in this stance.
Why can't women stand strong like the men are allowed to do in games. Why does she have to have her hip cocked out and butt at an angle so her curves are drawn to be in full view, accentuating her femininity. Because god forbid a game is made with a female soldier where her femininity isn't accentuated
Originated from Anita pretty much to get page hits
Sorry, i thought this was supposed to be a "trope".
Right. But Thread Title specifically says "Are Women Too Hard To Animate?" so i thought that was the main subject.
Is it really that hard to watch a 7 min video, video which is the subject of this thread, before posting?
I know the game turned out rather poorly but that didn't lesson my disappointed when I loaded up Brink on my PS3 for the first time and found the character creator only had a male option. At first I thought, ok, they didn't have the budget for multiple animations of the player character and then I see that the character creator had 3 different body type options.
So they had no problem with going in and animating multiple body type animations but only for men.
Also I REALLY dislike when a game has a female soldier or mercenary type and her animation is more buxom beauty and coquettish than someone who looks hard and strong (yes it's fine to have both but women are not given the strong variety very often)
See also: Femshep's unnecessary toothpick arms. Like please don't shy away from giving female soldier or merc type characters some muscles.
I have faith they will do a lot better with Mass Effect: Andromeda but I still disliked this image they released last year. I believe it's supposed to be a design of the male and female Ryder and well the female soldier's armour looks legit and awesome like the male's, I was annoyed they had her in this stance.
Why can't women stand strong like the men are allowed to do in games. Why does she have to have her hip cocked out and butt at an angle so her curves are drawn to be in full view, accentuating her femininity. Because god forbid a game is made with a female soldier where her femininity isn't accentuated
What? You don't check your watch like this:
I do this all the time, especially in public or when I'm on an exploratory mission in a new galaxy
Maybe it's just me. But I think my point is not clear.
Let be more understanding.
Let's take two similar bodies (Fit).
Women usually have longer hair than men.
If you're going to animate both of then, then the girl will be more difficult because of her hair.
Once again, 'two similar bodie.' Like you two said, it all depends on what you're making.
If both have the same hair length, then its the same. But keeping in mind that women overall have longer and bigger chest, then it makes the task a bit more difficult, even if it's 15 minutes more of work. It's not a BIG margin. Just slightly.
But in my experience, if you take two similar bodies, usually the girl is a bit more difficult because of what I mentioned before.
But it also depends on the person too I believe. I'm very perfectionist when it comes to this little details.
I like the subtle animation differences between men and women in the Dark Souls games.
Lol @ dat natural stance
Eh, still the female looks defenseless compared to the male.
The devs never said that, though. What they said is they don't have resources (Essentially time and money) to implement a female playable character, which is entirely reasonable. There's no character selection, at any point, in AC: Unity. From Wikipedia:
Asking for there to be a female character option in Unity is no different from asking for a gender option in Uncharted. It would literally mean doing all the animations, gear and cutscenes twice. It could also mean script changes, as some characters might react differently to the protagonist based on gender. At least, they would have to record all dialogue with gendered pronouns twice.
The mundane realities of budget-constrained game dev don't make for sexy hashtags, though.
In Dark Souls? Care to elaborate?Eh, still the female looks defenseless compared to the male.
And less armor , the male looks like a tank with that extra chest piece, knee pads and proper armor shoulders
Yesterday, Ubisoft creative director Alex Amancio that Ubisoft dropped women characters for Assassins' Creed Unity's four-player co-op because of workload pressures during production.
"It's double the animations, it's double the voices, all that stuff and double the visual assets," Amancio said. "Especially because we have customizable assassins. It was really a lot of extra production work."
"We started, but we had to drop it," said level designer Bruno St. Andre in a separete interview. "I cannot speak for the future of the brand, but it was dear to the production team, so you can expect that it will happen eventually in the brand."
If resources are being spent in a way that reinforces shitty stereotypes then it isn't entirely reasonable and publishers should rightly be called out on it. This is like whining that you spent a ton of money animating racist caricatures in pre-civil rights era cartoons but people are complaining about them now.
Why should people tolerate these mistakes just because they claim it's expensive to fix them? These companies are charging $60 +$40 for a season pass and whining about animation budgets.
Alex Amancio at Ubisoft claimed that it was too much work to retrofit female assassins in the game because the animation and the designs, voices would have to be double of what they are.Yesterday, Ubisoft creative director Alex Amancio that Ubisoft dropped women characters for Assassins' Creed Unity's four-player co-op because of workload pressures during production.
"It's double the animations, it's double the voices, all that stuff and double the visual assets," Amancio said. "Especially because we have customizable assassins. It was really a lot of extra production work."
I dont remember which dev said it but it was something along the lines of:
"The outrage about no female grunt enemies is less than the outrage about killing female grunts, so we dont include female grunts."
Even if Anita is fine with shooting female grunts without an agenda (equal opportunity genderwise), still many people are up in arms about it.
The fact still remains that they said they would have to do 8000 animations to include female assassins.
No, and no. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are probably the most egalitarian games ever, lolIn Dark Souls? Care to elaborate?
Does that include Bloodborne?
Why not just use the male animations?
Why not just use the male animations?
Why not just use the male animations?
Having a male protagonist is not a mistake, nor does it reinforce any stereotypes by itself. It's a creative choice developers are free to make. Your comparison to racist cartoons is absurd.
To be fair, that's a really awful male animation too, lol.From the first page: (different game, but you get the idea)
Female center of gravity is slightly different from a male's. Also different joint limitations
From the first page: (different game, but you get the idea)
It could have potentially looked terrible, if not planned ahead of time.
It IS a considerable amount of work and money to try and retrofit assets onto a new mesh, but the bigger point is when the a new Assassin's Creed is being initially mapped out, a huge amount of time and money gets allotted into developing something along the lines of another arbitrary stupid minigame rather than something as basic as the existence of basic female characters.