karmaforgotme
Member
I actually love sniper books (Carlos Hathcock 'Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills' is my favorite), but this was neither a good book or a good movie.
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Are you guys put off by patriotism in movies?
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I actually love sniper books (Carlos Hathcock 'Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills' is my favorite), but this was neither a good book or a good movie.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yes.
superdeluxe
Member
Well at least you admit talking about movies that you haven't seen.
You can criticize your country without shitting on it.
loaf of bread
Member
You can do this in essentially every developed nation in the world
Yes the trailers are more what I find bothersome frequently. I'm aware Deepwater reviewed well, but the trailers for it originally did seem to be skating towards the patriotic direction. Realistically how many Americans who watch the trailer see the film? I would guess less than 1 in 4 except for the big blockbusters such as Star Wars and the like.
Similar for Benghazi even if you don't see the film the name itself says "Secret" and "Benghazi" then we paint this large dramatized struggle with American soldiers.
The trailers are what I meant to focus on by that comment about not having seen the films. Such is going to be the most common situation for anyone who has heard about it.
I'm okay with a little bit but a lot of movies definitely go overboard. A lot of big blockbusters seem to do it including Transformers. It's pretty ridiculous.
I'm an American but I've never bought into the hyper patriotism that a lot of folks have. It's a toxic attitude to have.
I'm an American but I've never bought into the hyper patriotism that a lot of folks have. It's a toxic attitude to have.
I am aware. I'm not saying that the USA is the best, nor that they're great just because of this; I mean that self criticism is a prerequisite to being a great country, and that patriotism is literally the opposite from that.
superdeluxe
Member
But the title 'Secret Soldiers of Benghazi' Was correct, they weren't even supposed to be there. I mean it is what it is, a small team of security personal saved many american lives that day. Should we not tell the story because its Americans rose up and saved lives? I get it, they included some Michael Bay patriotic crap (Like the Libyans shooting at the American Flag), But most of the movie was brutal street to street/soldier to soldier battle.
JasoNsider
Member
Heh, pretty much this. American patriotism displayed in Hollywood is super obnoxious and as a Canadian, I don't even get a fraction as zealous about my country.
The worst are cultural products that are borderline straight up propaganda. I just saw an ad for the Boston Marathon bombing. This line in the trailer delivered super seriously: "......it's terrorism". U S A! U S A!
Yep. I don't watch them and no desire to watch them. That movie about seals... fuck it. That movie about the sniper... fuck it. The movie you're talking about... fuck it. Based on a true story movies that glorify that shit I just can't do. Now navy seals starring Charlie sheen is a national trensure though.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
I never watched it, but regardless any type of movies featuring US soldiers should be expected to have patriotism in it.
More_Badass
Member
Huh? How was Deepwater Horizon skating towards a patriotic direction? Nothing that happens in the movie has anything do with America being best and whatnot
This is again a similar case with Deepwater according to my understanding. The film itself may be accurate (although let's agree to ignore arguing about the facts of Benghazi in this thread). Yet consider the time and circumstances when the film released. The trailer certainly had a more political role to play at the time.
Good news, we're all living in at least one of best countries in the world! Yay!
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Depends on the context.
TheCochese
Banned
More_Badass
Member
One can understand a country has deep flaws while still aspiring to the ideals of the place. There's a difference between "America #1!" and "cultural melting pot, a country built by immigrants, etc."
Patriotic was probably the wrong use for this. I mean attempting to focus only on the disaster so as to make it seem random and miraculous. Realistically we know that the event was a long build up of BP neglect. By patriotism I mean using American heroism and bravery and mostly removing BP from the long run equation. Would such work for BP probably not, but BP and oil companies do lobby opinion in any way they can and the trailer originally felt like such may be the reasoning behind making the film. Focusing not on the situation having been preventable, but instead on it just "happening".
Obviously the full film clearly wasn't to BP's liking so it's unlikely they were drawn out or minimized from the narrative.
I'm not big on patriotism in general, but it really depends on the film and how it depicts patriotism. Something like Saving Private Ryan is on the sappy side, but it was well put together, and I found it perfectly acceptable. On the other hand, I used to do Bad Movie Night, and Stealth was the very last film there because I found it so disgusting.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Depends on the scene for me and how it is used.
If it seems like just a cheap pop, then I'll gloss over it.
If it seems like just a cheap pop, then I'll gloss over it.
This scene is entirely justified because it gave us this dude:
Even back then i laughed my ass off at this guy doing the most intense, ham-tacular salute ever recorded in camera.
radios shipping overview
Member
I'm put off by jingoism and military-industrial complex masturbation. AKA Michael Bay, Mel Gibson's "The Patriot."
DragonGirl
Member
The problem with patriotism is it can easily slide into nationalism and there's already plenty of overlap. Love for your country is great. But the moment it turns to jealousy guarding "your country" from "outsiders, turning a blind eye to faults that don't affect you directly, holding up national symbols over actual rights and ideologies above people's well being...well, I find depictions of patriotism to often be shallow and jingoistic and thus, very irritating.
CountAntonius
Member
Nope.
John Kowalski
Banned
yes, very
It depends on the reason. If someone is patriotic out of love and respect for one another. Their common man. Then I don't see why you should feel ashamed to be patriotic.
That was the message of Patriot Day (along with a lot of other disaster/sport drama movies) that through hard times, people are there for one another, and with love and time. We will overcome and rebuild.
And Make America Great Again.
That was the message of Patriot Day (along with a lot of other disaster/sport drama movies) that through hard times, people are there for one another, and with love and time. We will overcome and rebuild.
And Make America Great Again.
I'm kidding about that last part.
It always seems cringey but is nothing compared to the fact that America has a friggin' Pledge of Allegiance. That's some cult-level commitment to a concept.
All those shots full of flags everywhere in America just seem weird, in Germany you only see flags on government buildings, government uniforms and on the occasional nationalist's shack. Unless it's World Cup time of course, then everything is full of flags for a few weeks. Though not actual flagpoles, the only flagpoles around are those of businesses.
All those shots full of flags everywhere in America just seem weird, in Germany you only see flags on government buildings, government uniforms and on the occasional nationalist's shack. Unless it's World Cup time of course, then everything is full of flags for a few weeks. Though not actual flagpoles, the only flagpoles around are those of businesses.
old manatee
Banned
The only example of good movie patriotism is Independence Day.
The Salt Life
Banned
Haha ahh yeah that's not what I'm saying at all. Is Terry Bolia a racist, sure, but Hulk Higan the character was not a racist, when he came down with that flag to the ring, shit man it made you feel good. I guess that's what it is, patriotism makes me feel good and proud and when used in film....it tugs on the heart strings. Then again it's aimed at Americans in the film's I think of.
I don't expect today's American youth to get it, we really are products of our generations.
I believe someone mentioned IP man before, that film had some Chinese patriotism going on when he was fighting back for his people and I don't know, I just thought that was awesome. Different strokes for different folks.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Sometimes you have to shit on those flaws to a make it more apparent to the greater/nationwide community, we have many examples of this in the country's history.
Slavery didn't stop because people sat back and threw formal criticism at it.
Jim Crow laws and Segregation didn't stop because people sat back and threw formal criticism at it.
The Vietnam War didn't stop because people sat back, watched the televised war, and threw formal criticism at it.
Nixon didn't resign because people heard about Watergate, sat back, and threw formal criticism at him.
Clinton didn't get impeached because people heard about his affair, sat back, and threw formal criticism at him.
All these examples, most of which improved and/or changed America had the people outraged and worked to combat against. Shielding America as a "precious country undeserving of the super mean criticism" is doing a huge disservice to the country.
afternoon delight
Member
Yes, naked love for the god given best nation of all time in film and television is very cringey.
This is how it should be. In America, it's turning into nationalism and isolationism and it's terrifying me.
Albino_Yeti
Member
There's a big difference between having pride in the country you live in, pride in your country's achievements etc. and jingoism.
EXTREME nationalism leads to jingoism, but nationalism in moderation is fine. I would even argue that it is good for a country.
More_Badass
Member
Did you see Deepwater? What was so patriotic about that movie?
I just watched it a few days ago, and aside from a few shots of the flag, I don't remember anything overt or any plot points at all being about or revolving around America.
I wouldn't say that's an absolute.
No country is perfect. I am talking about day-to-day love for your country.
I believe in always putting your countrymen first.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This is my feeliing as well. Kinda sucks, because it's a thing at my job.
superdeluxe
Member
I'm wondering if people think if an American overcomes obstacles to save others and people cheer that fact..it means they are patriotic?
Shadic7700
Member
Patriotism can be done well it's when it becomes nationalism that a problem arises...
As a canadian, i think it's hilarious when watching some movie and then BAM, big plan on an american flag out of nowhere for no reason.
To be honest, i'm not sure what would make americans proud & patriotic now after electing Trump, but... if I was an american, I sure as hell wouldn't be after this.
To be honest, i'm not sure what would make americans proud & patriotic now after electing Trump, but... if I was an american, I sure as hell wouldn't be after this.
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