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[hardcastlemccormick]

I dislike patriotism but there are some films that can justify it when there's a major theme. For example, The West Wing is strongly patriotic, but one of the show's central concepts is how the US can be an extraordinary country, if its citizens work hard toward accomplishing that goal.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I'm not sure I watched the same American Sniper as a lot of people in this thread. It's got a lot of military stuff in it but the ultimate point if the movie is how being a badass Navy Seal action movie hero ultimately ruined this guy's life. Its not exactly a glowing commendation of it.

 

[nicanica]

 

[Chezzymann]

no, I chant "USA USA" every time and clap

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Yeah, I don't have much interest in it either. Blind loyalty is never a good thing. Nations are just where we happened to be born and still chose to live, or chose to move too.

I've done a fair amount of traveling and have seen no reason to think America, or any other place I've been, is "the best."

Just like all things, every place has their strengths and weaknesses. Are their places worse than America? Of course, just as with comparing most first world countries to third world and developing nations. Is their a first world country that is superior to all the others in things like quality of life, culture, climate, nature etc? No. There's lots of great places, and what fits a person best as a place to live comes down to individual preferences.

 

[smisk]

I guess it depends. If it's something like Patriot's day or the Benghazi movie or American Sniper that glorifies Americans shooting brown people with no bigger message I have no interest. Patriotism in other contexts I don't have as much a problem with though.

 

[Enzom21]

Then moving should be a goal. I wasn't born in America, but I sure as hell love her.

Nothing rustles my jimmies than people talking shit about one of the best countries in the world. People fight very hard to come live here.

"You should leave if the don't like how this country is treating you."
This country can be pretty shitty, especially for people who are not white.
As long as the bad things don't affect you it's all good.

Criticizing and trying to improve this country is far better than some delusional belief that it is some wonderful utopia beyond criticism.
Along with being moronic, blind patriotism is quite dangerous.

 

[spliced]

Patriotism alone is bad enough, but when I saw Mark Wahlberg was in a movie called Patriots Day I don't think I've ever rolled my eyes so hard in my life. It's extreme parody sold as an actual serious movie.

 

[E92 M3]

"You should leave if the don't like how this country is treating you."
This country can be pretty shitty, especially for people who are not white.
As long as the bad things don't affect you it's all good.

Criticizing and trying to improve this country is far better than some delusional belief that it is some wonderful utopia beyond criticism.
Along with being moronic, blind patriotism is quite dangerous.

Every country has problems that need to be corrected, but the citizens can still be patriotic. Also, sometimes leaving the country is the best option. I wasn't born here.

Everything considered America is one of the best countries in the world. She is full of opportunity and happy. Some people don't know how good they have it.

 

[jeemer]

patriotism in all walks of life is ludicrous to me. i happened to be born on this patch of dirt, yay me!

people compare it to rooting for a sports team. growing up in glasgow with the old firm i often found that to be ingrained tribal nonsense and equally as repulsive.

 

[DirtyLarry]

Patriotic was probably the wrong use for this. I mean attempting to focus only on the disaster so as to make it seem random and miraculous. Realistically we know that the event was a long build up of BP neglect. By patriotism I mean using American heroism and bravery and mostly removing BP from the long run equation. Would such work for BP probably not, but BP and oil companies do lobby opinion in any way they can and the trailer originally felt like such may be the reasoning behind making the film. Focusing not on the situation having been preventable, but instead on it just "happening".

Obviously the full film clearly wasn't to BP's liking so it's unlikely they were drawn out or minimized from the narrative.

Friendly bit of advice. Avoid talking about movies you have not seen as if you have seen them.
The movie makes it crystal clear it was BP as they mention them directly. Multiple times. They do not skirt around that fact in even the slightest way.
So not only are you talking about a movie you have not seen based on the trailer, you are making assumptions that simply put are false.
I also think it is very safe to say you are putting way to much weight into what a movie trailer is meant to do. Get people to see the movie. Not tell every single plot point of the story.

In regards to the OP, I have no problem with depicting patriotism myself because it does actually exist. In this world, especially in the US, there are people who are incredibly patriotic.

Whether you agree with being patriotic or not is a whole other topic, but I am not put off by it unless it is blatant propaganda, which there are plenty examples of. For example I would say American Sniper definitely leaned more towards propaganda than simply just being patriotic myself.

 

[gutter_trash]

this was on the summer post 9-11, so this one gets a pass IMO.

Especially when the 1st teaser promo teaser featured the Twin Towers with a chopper caught in a giant web

 

[Piggus]

Acknowledge your country's faults (and fight to change them) while celebrating what makes it great. If you're triggered by a waving flag then you are either envious or incredibly cynical.

That said, sometimes it's overdone and silly. I watched London Has Fallen the other day and that whole movie is just two hours of Murica, fuck yeah.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't mind good movies that have elements of patriotism in them or elements of playing to the audience.

But a movie like Patriot's Day just ... I don't think I could do it. Considering I lived through the Boston Marathon Bombing and the aftermath, living in the area, I just have absolutely no interest in ever reliving any of that in a Mark Wahlberg drama. I really don't know anybody who wants to see that movie, either around here... Everybody I know was like "Ugh.. really...?" I'm sure many people do because it did well (right?), but I dunno, I don't think I can ever watch a 9/11, Marathon Bombing, or similar movie.

There are some movies that are Patriotic in the same sense. Independence Day is a patriotic movie, and while it's one of those movies that I probably like because I first saw it when I was 12, I still like it. SUre, it's patriotic for "Earth," but "Earth" in independence day takes on a very pro-Western lens.

 

[Hexxen-Panda]

I'm not sure I watched the same American Sniper as a lot of people in this thread. It's got a lot of military stuff in it but the ultimate point if the movie is how being a badass Navy Seal action movie hero ultimately ruined this guy's life. Its not exactly a glowing commendation of it.

It's not really the commentary on the soldier experience that bothers me, but the moral superiority complex towards America that the film seems to have.
I mean, the film begins with the wolf-sheepdog allegory, and while there are scenes about the plight of veterans, the focus of the film is on the guy's heroics and how justified he is in his fight against the "savages."

 

[Flux]

As an outsider I guess to the question since you imply American patriotism. It is ridiculously heavy handed and over the top. I mean they are basically a subgenre now with Scully, the Boston Bomber movie, and that one about the sea captain.

 

[eizarus]

Man American Sniper. The biggest piece of bullshit propoganda IMO. It relied heavily on America's obsession with war and patriotism to paint a someone who (based on his memoirs) was closer to being a psycho as a hero. That level of patriotism in a movie really ruins it especially when you have the subject's own memoirs providing a different view than what Eastwood was portraying.

 

[AlexMogil]

I can tell you that as a non-American, I roll my eyes every time I see a slo-mo american flag waving in a movie.

Canada's patriotism is locked in a small vial in the basement of a Bank of Montreal somewhere I think. Everyone gets a microdrop on Canada Day and back into the vault it goes.

https://youtu.be/40C1UHKfkIE?t=24

 

[smokeymicpot]

this was on the summer post 9-11, so this one gets a pass IMO.

Especially when the 1st teaser promo teaser featured the Twin Towers with a chopper caught in a giant web

And the movie takes place in NYC.

 

[Thriller]

So do American cringe at the start of les miserables with hugh jackman? When he needs to pick up the flag? Or doesnt that qualify as patriotism?

 

[Hale-XF11]

I find patriotism to be immature and embarrassing. I don't think in terms of my nationality. Ever. It's a stupid concept.

 

[Big Nikus]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1335346

who needs movies

 

[eagledare]

Man American Sniper. The biggest piece of bullshit propoganda IMO. It relied heavily on America's obsession with war and patriotism to paint a someone who (based on his memoirs) was closer to being a psycho as a hero. That level of patriotism in a movie really ruins it especially when you have the subject's own memoirs providing a different view than what Eastwood was portraying.

Yep, this. Which coupled with the fact that there isn't a single positive interaction with any of the civilians in the town occupied by US forces just amplifies the film's toxic vibe. All brown people aren't enemy combatants or scheming insurgents like the film portrays.

 

[michaelius]

As far as Hollywood is concerned I'd be ok if it wasn't so ridiculously stupid like last scenes in Fury where they ruined great build with laughtable final scenes.

 

[The Albatross]

So do American cringe at the start of les miserables with hugh jackman? When he needs to pick up the flag? Or doesnt that qualify as patriotism?

No, I love Les Mis. I really liked The Wind that Shakes the Barley, as well, a fairly unabashed Patriotically Irish movie.

I think people are probably bothered more by American patriotism in media because the entertainment industry is influenced so heavily by American media, and so it's more difficult to escape.

 

[Enzom21]

Every country has problems that need to be corrected, but the citizens can still be patriotic. Also, sometimes leaving the country is the best option. I wasn't born here.

Everything considered America is one of the best countries in the world. She is full of opportunity and happy. Some people don't know how good they have it.

You really drank that kool-aid huh?
I was born here and I know how shitty this country is... this past election proves just how shitty it is.
The country is not a she, it is not a sentient being.
What makes a country great are the people who live in it, the government and how that government treats those people.
Right now, the newly elected government is shit and the people who voted them in are equally shitty, so a large portion of this country is shit. And that doesn't include the continued inequality and injustice in this country.

 

[More_Badass]

I find patriotism to be immature and embarrassing. I don't think in terms of my nationality. Ever. It's a stupid concept.

As an American, I'd say that when you express disgust and critique the incoming administration and their policies and the damage they can (and will) do, that's a kind of patriotism. I wouldn't say that's bad

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

I had to look the movie up, I had actually heard of it but I was that uninterested.

It depicts a tragic event, but I typically avoid whatever that genre of "based on a true story"/historical fiction/police or military hero worship is called. It does not appeal to me at all.

And honestly, I didn't even remember Spiderman swinging by or landing on the flag pole in the movies, but considering the events of the day I didn't have a big problem with it at the time.

 

[nicanica]

Far as I'm concerned, the only acceptable use of Ultra Patriotism.

Goddamn Joes thwarted the terrorist plot of setting off Cobras plan to blow up the statue of liberty.

In the process blew up the Cobra Helicarrier.

Fuck yeah.

 

[Hale-XF11]

As an American, I'd say that when you express disgust and critique of the incoming administration and their policies and the damage they can (and will) do, that's a kind of patriotism. I wouldn't say that's bad

As far as I can tell, patriotism is largely defined by how we view and express ourselves in comparison to other countries. What you're talking about isn't what I'd call patriotism. Partisanship, maybe?

 

[Piggus]

As far as I can tell, patriotism is largely defined by how we view and express ourselves in comparison to other countries. What you're talking about isn't what I'd call patriotism. Partisanship, maybe?

Patriotism has nothing to do with other countries. It's a desire to support your own country and make it better.

 

[The Albatross]

As far as I can tell, patriotism is largely defined by how we view and express ourselves in comparison to other countries. What you're talking about isn't what I'd call patriotism. Partisanship, maybe?

I don't know if that's totally accurate... If it is, then Canadians would show the most unabashed patriotism. Find any thread about any country and in that thread, you'll find a smug Canadian stealth bragging about Canada and being passive aggressive towards everyone else

 

[jmdajr]

Far as I'm concerned, the only acceptable use of Ultra Patriotism.

Goddamn Joes thwarted the terrorist plot of setting off Cobras plan to blow up the statue of liberty.

In the process blew up the Cobra Helicarrier.

Fuck yeah.

can't hate on this!

Greatest cartoon intro probbaly ever
I mean what the fuck. Just look at it!

 

[Berserking Guts]

I'm from the UK and american patriotism, as depicted by Hollywood and other media, has always been perceived as massive cheese ball. I've always seen it as unintentional and totally unaware humour. But there are exceptions.

Nothing wrong in loving your country though.

 

[Fitts]

can't hate on this!

Greatest cartoon intro probbaly ever
I mean what the fuck. Just look at it!

Nothing "probably" about it, friend.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yes. It's so grating and they just beat you with it over and over and over and over and over and over again.

 

[Hypron]

Yeah it's off-putting. I can only tolerate so much "America, fuck yeah" before rolling my eyes. I also remember rolling my eyes at some stuff in Chinese movies that was just as bad, but overall I think other countries tend to be less patriotic.

 

[thebeeks]

Movies schmovies, I'm put off by patriotism in everything. Songs, bumper stickers, shirts, commercials, etc. Goes from annoying to creepy real quick.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

 

[Thriller]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

You sayin' Cap aint a patriot?? Get with the program son!

 

[eizarus]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

Cap worked really well because they used to Cap as a reminder of what America stood for and how that compares to now. Cap 2 was basically the whole NSA thing.

In fact I'm pretty sure Cap mentions to Fury in Avengers 1 that even though they won the war, there's a lot that they've lost (which (to me at least) seemed like he was talking about ideals and values)

 

[More_Badass]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

They haven't avoided patriotism at all. It just isn't the ridiculous over-the-top "patriotism" that is mocked and used so often in other movies.

 

[The Salt Life]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

Did you skip the middle of the first captain America film? They straight up used him to sell war bonds
Captain America is patriotic af in his actions in the other movies. You don't got to wave a flag around to be patriotic. He believes in truth, justice and the American way.

 

[Akuun]

It's incredibly fucking off-putting. I'm genuinely amazed the Captain America movies have avoided it as much as they have.

It's one reason why I like those movies. They're still superhero movies, but they always try to center their plot and character motivations around relateable issues while mostly avoiding the stereotypical comic book cheese.

Did you skip the middle of the first captain America film? They straight up used him to sell war bonds
Captain America is patriotic af in his actions in the other movies. You don't got to wave a flag around to be patriotic. He believes in truth, justice and the American way.

But the movie actually makes fun of that. The movie shows he's not at all happy doing that stuff, and that all the real soldiers loathe him for it.

 

[DoctorFling]

I love patriotism as long as it's British

God save the queen and all that

 

[More_Badass]

It's one reason why I like those movies. They're still superhero movies, but they always try to center their plot and character motivations around relateable issues while mostly avoiding the stereotypical comic book cheese.


But the movie actually makes fun of that. The movie shows he's not at all happy doing that stuff, and that all the real soldiers loathe him for it.

But that's mocking the kind of "patriotism" we're talking about here

I'd say him going to rescue the soldiers, or being against the surveillance program in Winter Soldier, are also displays of patriotism

 

[ColdPizza]

Before I opened this thread I had guessed it was about Patriots Day, haha.

 

[hurricanes]

The American ideal of patriotism is nothing less than nationalistic propaganda. Not hard understand why people are put off.

 

[Akuun]

But that's mocking the kind of "patriotism" we're talking about here

I'd say him going to rescue the soldiers, or being against the surveillance program in Winter Soldier, are also displays of patriotism

Yeah, it's definitely mocking the cheese "patriotism."

While I see how his actions in the movies could be seen as patriotic, the movie (possibly intentionally) blurs the line between patriotism and one's personal sense of justice. Cap obviously has a very strong sense of justice and morals, and most of the movies focus on how his own sense of justice clashes with those of others. At multiple points, Cap effectively sticks to his own morals even if the whole world turns against him for it.

In those cases, is Cap standing up for himself or for his country? Or for what he believes his country should be, even if no one else agrees with him for it? It can be argued that this is Cap's own brand of patriotism, but it could also be seen as Cap's own strength of character while ignoring the whole patriotism thing.

It's an interesting line to walk, and probably one of the reasons why the movies are good. You can see the patriotism there, but you can also ignore it if you want.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Did you skip the middle of the first captain America film? They straight up used him to sell war bonds
Captain America is patriotic af in his actions in the other movies. You don't got to wave a flag around to be patriotic. He believes in truth, justice and the American way.

Except that middle segment is done mockingly... There's a reason it goes from a big fun jingoistic musical number to a hard cut to a crowd of depressed, angry, muddy soldiers.

The patriotism OP is describing is the lame-ass nationalistic propaganda version. Again, something the Cap movies have generally avoided.

Also the "truth and justice" line ain't something exclusive to the US. There's a reason they dropped that "American way" bit from Superman.

But that's mocking the kind of "patriotism" we're talking about here

I'd say him going to rescue the soldiers, or being against the surveillance program in Winter Soldier, are also displays of patriotism

Saving a bunch of prisoners from crazy super-nazis and destroying acouple airships from literally offing thousands upon thousands of people around the globe aren't some uniquely "patriotic" traits, especially among superheroes.