-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
ARMS |OT| (-)-------------
- Thread starter Dandy Crocodile
- Start date
QuixoticNeutral
Member
One thing I noticed in the credits earlier in the week when I played GP: this is the first Nintendo release I've seen credit Kimishima as sole executive producer, presumably as the game commenced production after Iwata's passing. Maybe this was already the case with other Nintendo releases this year like Snipperclips and Fire Emblem Echoes, but it's the first time I encountered it myself, and it conclusively signalled the end of an era.
xXCrazyCostaXX
Member
It needs it. They just keep trying to back away and keep shooting the beams. What I've been doing is spending the whole match trying to just eek by hp wise than run to give them a taste of there own medicine at the end. Makes me mad cause I really enjoy this game when people are playing like they want to actually play
Yeah
My Proposed Fix: When the player is guarding and holding Back (directional), hits will trigger the teleport evade. Otherwise (neutral direction) it just does the standard block.
This would both reintegrate those advanced techniques (parry/dash guard cancel and rush guard cancel) and also add to his mind games, "damnit what's he gonna do"-factor, which I think is his intended niche.
Ah, i spent a good half an hour feeling out Ninjara today to get better acquainted, could only get that to activate by accident and wondered what i was doing wrong.
I still find him imminently easy to use.
Picked up more on Min Min's dragon arm thanks to some of the advice from this thread (mostly from you), so thanks!
Yeah, I noticed that as well. I don't play (let alone complete) every Nintendo title, but of the ones I have, it's the first where I've noticed Kimishima as the sole executive producer credit. Kudos to Kimishima for signing off on a new IP from one of Nintendo's best teams.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Did they make Hedlok harder in party?
Soulscribe
Member
Got a Switch and a copy of this game shipping soon, so I'm excited to get into it.
Obvious question, but for the folks who've been playing it a lot, do any of you prefer motion controls? I'm hoping motion controls are my preferred scheme coz it just looks more fun.
Obvious question, but for the folks who've been playing it a lot, do any of you prefer motion controls? I'm hoping motion controls are my preferred scheme coz it just looks more fun.
TheGoreMagala
Member
I believe most of GAF elite uses traditional but Yabuki stated Motion is the way to go and in inclined to believe the creator of the game.
If anything all that match ups are the reason I absolutely love ranked and hope custom arms become the norm for tournaments.
The more match ups I learn and the more I dive into the game, it just gets more and more complex and deep and I'm absolutely fascinated and I love it.
Me and so many GAF members are just having a blast sharing all of the information there is to take in.
molnizzle
Member
You all are crazy though. ARMS was supposed to be the fighting game for normal people.
TheGoreMagala
Member
molnizzle
Member
Smash was supposed to be that too, no?
I guess. I never liked Smash because of the gameplay itself not having a traditional "health bar" mechanic. The crazy shit that came afterward didn't matter since I already wasn't feeling the core gameplay. ARMS is at least fun to play and structured like a normal fighting game.
That's really all I wanted. A normal fighting game just without the stupidly difficult inputs.
Oh well. "Launch window blues" and all that.
I noticed the same thing, you know you're far down the Nintendo rabbit hole when you're part of a crowd seeing these things in credits.
As silly as this sounds, I'm on your side haha. More normal people fighting games please! I'm too noob.
Lmao
TheGoreMagala
Member
Well, why can't ARMS be both? The inputs are far from difficult, and it's super simple to pick up. But it's also competitively viable and capable of being taken to the next level as well.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
I'm so accustomed to motion controls as the way to play the game that I can't switch away from them, so yes.
If they look appealing to you, try them first before the button controls so you don't have any button-driven preconceptions of how the game should work. I will tell you right now that moving your character will be the biggest stumbling block because until you're comfortable with dashing/jumping and the way the camera works, it will feel slow and you will probably wish for sticks. Punching is easy and natural; it's the inputs for dodging and blocking that are a whole new skill you won't have practiced either in video games or real life.
People who give up on motion controls usually give up at this point, from what I've seen. If you get over that hump and are still managing to have fun, congratulations: motion controls are for you. You might want to try out the button scheme regardless to see if you prefer it anyway—some players here saw a performance boost right away and decided not to back to motion, while others like myself just couldn't get into them after getting comfortable with the basic movement/tactics with motion controls.
Since you're open-minded enough about motion already to give it a try, just be prepared for the initial learning curve of learning a new control scheme. It's not going to be effortlessly one-to-one out of the box. But once you understand it, it's amazing.
molnizzle
Member
The amount of arm and character combinations is too much. Overwhelming number of match-ups to learn—and that's just now at the start, with the least number of characters and arms that will ever be in the game. It's way too complicated.
I felt the same way about the different stances in MKX, but at least that game had a treasure trove of single player content. ARMS is clearly just meant to be a competitive game (since that's really all there is) but it's just too much to get a handle on. Way too many match ups to learn.
The more you play this game, the more you want to play; it's so fucking good. I'm surprised how much it feels like a fighting game, despite the lack of lengthy combos. The fluid animations and dynamic camera angles, makes everything feel like a dance. I really hope this game succeeds enough to warrant extensive support. Cause it can only go up from here.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Then Nintendo needs to release some patch that unlocks all the arms cuz it's gonna be a hassle for tournament organizers to unlock all of them.
The Xtortionist
Member
Try to first categorize the different kind of arms. Like, Ramram, slapamander, and thunderbird all have their quirks, but they can be simplified down to "potentially attacks from the side". Seekie and Homie explode after impact, even on block, so don't drop your guard after it hits. Regular glove weapons travel more or less straight, so side attack weapons like ramram can avoid clashing them. Etc.
You can get pretty far in ARMS with good movement and attack habits. The nuance isn't as crucial as other fighting games. Like in Tekken, an intermediate player will blow you up by exploiting frame traps and high/low crush. In ARMS you might get into that level of detail at very high-skill matches, but solid fundamentals and adapting to the more general properties (side attack, straight attack, weight class) of the opponent's attacks is generally fine.
Characters have quirks as well, but they don't totally change the game most of the time. Watch out for Kid Cobra sliding forward under an attack, don't attack Ribbon Girl in the air unless she overextends, don't attack Twintelle when she's in slo-mo, etc. These are things that can be learned pretty quickly.
Don't overthink it.
I'm not sure I understand, how long the hidden hp?
Hmm, do you just mean how long they are disabled for?
Whoa, you mean they get knocked down and recover and are still disabled? that's crazy.
The Xtortionist
Member
TheGoreMagala
Member
I think what he means is how long it takes for the yellow caution sign to go away.
Yeah =/
Like the core game is great but there's a number of things that keep from making the full purchase really.
Poltergust
Member
Confirmed: Fighting game AI is still bad against projectiles.
Using double Dragon ARMS, I just beat GP7 with Ribbon Girl and I only lost twice, once at Skillshot (which doesn't count, honestly) and once against Hedlok. Holy crap, this was so much easier than my Spring Man run.
I'll only do GP7 for characters where I have one of the two Dragons unlocked from now on. This will make getting a GP7 crown for each of them completely trivial, which is perfectly fine by me.
Using double Dragon ARMS, I just beat GP7 with Ribbon Girl and I only lost twice, once at Skillshot (which doesn't count, honestly) and once against Hedlok. Holy crap, this was so much easier than my Spring Man run.
I'll only do GP7 for characters where I have one of the two Dragons unlocked from now on. This will make getting a GP7 crown for each of them completely trivial, which is perfectly fine by me.
Ooh, that I'd like to know too. Should be decently easy to test when I get a chance.
Here's the thing again. Nooo idea if Helix's Arm Girth changes when he's in either of his weird modes. (For anyone who missed it, you can see this analysis of how ridiculously complex arm girth is.)TheGoreMagala said:
Actually let me just type them out so we can compare easily and I can add them to the characters post:
Spring Man
Size 3
Arm Girth 3
Jump 3
Speed 3
Ribbon Girl
Size 2
Arm Girth 2
Jump 4
Speed 3
Ninjara
Size 3
Arm Girth 3
Jump 4
Speed 5
Master Mummy
Size 5
Arm Girth 5
Jump 1
Speed 1
Min Min
Size 2
Arm Girth 1 (left Arm 5 when dragon arm is active)
Jump 3
Speed 3
Mechanica
Size 5
Arm Girth 4
Jump 2
Speed 2
Twintelle
Size 4
Arm Girth 3
Jump 3
Speed 3
Byte and Barq
Size 4 (Barq has his own separate hitbox)
Arm Girth 2
Jump 3
Speed 3
Kid Cobra
Size 3
Arm Girth 5
Jump 5
Speed 2 (5 when charged)
Helix
Size 5
Arm Girth 3
Jump 3
Speed 3
Well....
When I play as him I feel like I'm playing QWOP.
When I play an ordinary player who's of lower skill he's easy to hit and seemingly unable to keep up with me. When I play an ordinary player who's better he is very slippery and difficult to pin down, and I'm never positive if he's vulnerable. But I can still beat him.
When I play against you, I feel like QWOP is playing me.
Haha in all seriousness know. I do know what you are looking for, I just haven't spent enough time playing with him to comment confidently. I promise to invest the time into at least getting competent with him so that I can give you a real answer.
TheGoreMagala
Member
All ARMS are disabled after three hits
This is good advice, I would just like to add that you should figure out what your game plan is and just try to execute that. I don't know what character you're playing but a simple example would be a ninjara who only wants to teleport and then throw. Or a min min who wants you to flip kick and counter attack. Or a more general plan to stay mid range and harass with safe punches only committing once the enemy makes a mistake. In these examples it doesn't matter what the enemy is doing, or what arms they have, the plan is the same.... you win some and lose some but you can always work on your game.
TheGoreMagala
Member
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/204207-arms/75492747
!!!!!!
And no it's not me in the footage they show.
Though he's very defensive it seems and I'm not sure if his approach is as effective as mine
!!!!!!
And no it's not me in the footage they show.
Though he's very defensive it seems and I'm not sure if his approach is as effective as mine
Played about 8 hours today. Game is pretty fun. Been playing Min Min to good results. Always having a charged arm is pretty damn useful. Main loadout has been Ramram on dragon arm and Popper/Revolver on the right. Got my ass handed to me 10 times in a row to another Min Min running dual Poppers. That shit is hard to deal with. Did it on my next few opponents and beat them using the same strategy. Is dual poppers like the go to Min Min load out or something?
I don't think any of this crazy complex stuff or knowing every conceivable Arms matchup is necessary to play and enjoy the game or even to compete against skilled players.
A lot of it is like Punch-Out at its core really, if you understand what your opponent is doing and react appropriately, or proactively counter what they intend to do, that gives you the advantage- not all the complex minutiae that only the seriousest of the serious should be concerned with. Timing, counterplay, mind games, all of that is available even to casual gamers really.
If you're trying to "get good," not to compete at the top levels of play but just to be able to be confident that you're not working against yourself, you wanna:
-Get comfortable with "the fundamentals," like the things about the game that are the same with any character. Getting really comfortable with curving punches, learning when to favor the ground over the air, when to favor dodging over blocking, changing your tactics based on who has a full rush meter... all crucial stuff that can make the difference.
-Without having to learn every possible combination and matchup of arms against each other, gradually doing GP (even level 1) once with every character, using their default arms and trying them out over the matches will give you a huge leg up in terms of understanding the Arms and especially the different classes of arms you can face off against. Then when you see what you're up against, you'll have a good idea from the three you've got equipped can do to help fight the type of Arms you're facing, and when new Arms are added, even without understanding their nuances, they will likely still fall under one of the categories and you'll know how to adapt.
-Find the "Arms that really work for you." This was Jorpen's advice but it always kinda stuck with me. If you find something you really enjoy and can make work, that you have confidence with, that goes a long way toward carrying you to victory. Don't dwell so much on all the complexity both actual and apparent, and just try different things as often as possible to find what really works for you.
I think it's totally a "game for normal people" (even if plenty of well... not so normals are here among us enjoying these discovery-laden early days). It could do with a gentler ramp up to the difficulty, but the basic core is simple and fun. I think that much like Smash, this actually is a great example of a game you can pick up and play with little foreknowledge, become more skilled at and fill out your general understanding to get the most out of the gameplay if that's what you want, and then dive REALLY into the systems behind the scenes and every variable possible to compete at the highest level if that's what you want.
So Dan probably wants to know how long after one takes a hit that it goes back to full ("hidden hp" as he puts it) and takes another 3 hits again.
Testable to some extent by doing two hits, waiting, then doing a third.
Also woah, the Whammer. Do not see a lot of that but he's getting great mileage from it. He's barely even using it as a weapon, more of a "boxing-in" tool. Awesome stuff!
A lot of it is like Punch-Out at its core really, if you understand what your opponent is doing and react appropriately, or proactively counter what they intend to do, that gives you the advantage- not all the complex minutiae that only the seriousest of the serious should be concerned with. Timing, counterplay, mind games, all of that is available even to casual gamers really.
If you're trying to "get good," not to compete at the top levels of play but just to be able to be confident that you're not working against yourself, you wanna:
-Get comfortable with "the fundamentals," like the things about the game that are the same with any character. Getting really comfortable with curving punches, learning when to favor the ground over the air, when to favor dodging over blocking, changing your tactics based on who has a full rush meter... all crucial stuff that can make the difference.
-Without having to learn every possible combination and matchup of arms against each other, gradually doing GP (even level 1) once with every character, using their default arms and trying them out over the matches will give you a huge leg up in terms of understanding the Arms and especially the different classes of arms you can face off against. Then when you see what you're up against, you'll have a good idea from the three you've got equipped can do to help fight the type of Arms you're facing, and when new Arms are added, even without understanding their nuances, they will likely still fall under one of the categories and you'll know how to adapt.
-Find the "Arms that really work for you." This was Jorpen's advice but it always kinda stuck with me. If you find something you really enjoy and can make work, that you have confidence with, that goes a long way toward carrying you to victory. Don't dwell so much on all the complexity both actual and apparent, and just try different things as often as possible to find what really works for you.
I think it's totally a "game for normal people" (even if plenty of well... not so normals are here among us enjoying these discovery-laden early days). It could do with a gentler ramp up to the difficulty, but the basic core is simple and fun. I think that much like Smash, this actually is a great example of a game you can pick up and play with little foreknowledge, become more skilled at and fill out your general understanding to get the most out of the gameplay if that's what you want, and then dive REALLY into the systems behind the scenes and every variable possible to compete at the highest level if that's what you want.
I know what you mean in every single word of this post. agree 100%.
Regardless of damage eh?
So Dan probably wants to know how long after one takes a hit that it goes back to full ("hidden hp" as he puts it) and takes another 3 hits again.
Testable to some extent by doing two hits, waiting, then doing a third.
Hey cool. Japanese eh? Maybe the glory of Helix was more apparent to them over there.
Also woah, the Whammer. Do not see a lot of that but he's getting great mileage from it. He's barely even using it as a weapon, more of a "boxing-in" tool. Awesome stuff!
QuixoticNeutral
Member
I'm nowhere near 15 and don't know what the norms are like in the higher levels, but it looks to me like the Helix player is picking for large hitboxes and high priority and consistently using the tap-jump landings to maintain charge, particularly on the Bubb. Some really nice low dodges with the puddle there, too. In the fight with Ninjara at the end he isn't afraid to stay in the air once the metre has been built up and counter a rush with a rush, which looks to me like the riskiest thing to pull off here in terms of execution—you really have to trust that your timing is spot on and that your gloves will get the job done.
In fact, I'm still not really clear on which systems are in play when you have two players try to rush each other down at the same time. It's definitely not the case that the first player to activate breaks through (as we can see in the video) but I haven't successfully managed to pull off any counter-rushes myself. I know weight priority has some effect, but I would expect that curved weapons that come in from the side would inflict an interrupt if they make contact first.
This can't be emphasized enough. Running GP with every character gives you a rapid understanding of every arm, though you can swap arms around as you like, of course, so long as you get a chance to try everything. Opponents who mix-and-match may have far more combinations than you are able to learn, but if you know how each individual arm works you can make good inferences about what tactics are implied by certain combinations—whether their approach is going to be about coming in from the side, or beating you in weight head-on as much as possible, or using light arms to build the metre, or locking you down with ice or electricity. You won't know for sure until you step into the match, but when the game matures to the point that people start copying builds from top streamers and mimic their approach, you'll have some idea of what to expect and how to pick against it before the clock starts running.
The thing about this game is that mechanics like the punch curving add an "analogue" dimension to the mechanics, a whole range of potential imprecision, that your personal level of execution with a given arm should outweigh razor-thin theoretical/numerical margins until you are at a very competitive rank indeed. Depending on how you handle either motion controls or sticks (and even sticks have a different resistance to them between the Pro Controller or Joy-Cons), your motor skills will affect which classes of arms or kinds of curvature you are best at aiming, just like how every Mario Kart player has a drift/handling sensitivity that they are most comfortable with. Some people just aren't going to be as good with birds as they are with boomerangs. And with motion controls, left-/right-hand dominance may make a difference as well.
I'm a big believer in the basics, and I've had no problems overcoming even the most exotic combinations with nothing but toasters (I don't even use charge attacks or character abilities)
Instead of worrying about your opponent's s loadout, focus on improving your reflexes and fight IQ. Know the triangle and work on evading. Don't get too frustrated when you lose (study your replays and learn from your mistakes)
Instead of worrying about your opponent's s loadout, focus on improving your reflexes and fight IQ. Know the triangle and work on evading. Don't get too frustrated when you lose (study your replays and learn from your mistakes)
Add me to the list of people trying to figure out the fucking RAM RAM !!!
Dashing backwards or forwards at the last minute has always worked for me, but the timing is very tight. I suppose jumping would work too, but I don't really do much of that with Spring Man.
You're probably better off blocking instead, but mapping that to L3 is fucking dumb and I hate using it
TheGoreMagala
Member
Should I join random party matches when I can or would that be too evil?
QuixoticNeutral
Member
High-level play won't save you in 2v2.
Poltergust
Member
Ram Ram is such a good newbie killer lol. They never dodge it. I finally made it to +4 in Party Mode with Ram Ram + Bubb (and I almost won a 3-for-all, too!).
Also, I swear I'm the only one who uses the pillars in Helix's and Mechanica's stages for cover while I chuck curved Ram Rams.
Luckily, I unlocked the Dragon for three more characters in the last couple ARMS Getter runs I did. After I bust those out for their GP7s, I will just need to get it for Ninjara, Master Mummy, and Twintelle before I can cheese may way through their GP7s and be done with all the characters for that.
Also, I swear I'm the only one who uses the pillars in Helix's and Mechanica's stages for cover while I chuck curved Ram Rams.
Luckily, I unlocked the Dragon for three more characters in the last couple ARMS Getter runs I did. After I bust those out for their GP7s, I will just need to get it for Ninjara, Master Mummy, and Twintelle before I can cheese may way through their GP7s and be done with all the characters for that.
https://www.twitch.tv/nanaki765
What appears to be Japanese players having some kind of house tourney.
(running default arms?)
Play is pretty solid.
What appears to be Japanese players having some kind of house tourney.
(running default arms?)
Play is pretty solid.
Thanks, the completion isn't part of me doesn't like seeing the question mark on the screen. It's my OCD.