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ARMS |OT| (-)-------------
- Thread starter Dandy Crocodile
- Start date
shadowfoxx21
Member
Thanks, I was super intimidated after the first round, glad I could bring it back and provide some quality matches. I'm still trying to figure out a good loadout for her. I'm slowly getting coins to get all her ARMS.
Jumped on the Discord, name is RockmanTrigger. Looking forward to more good fights.
donkey show
Member
Here's the ARMS stuff from Wednesday Night Fights last night: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153540261?t=00h42m59s
EDIT: Actual tourney starts here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153540261?t=01h25m33s
EDIT: Actual tourney starts here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153540261?t=01h25m33s
Hehe, your discipline was really good. A lot of people panic against my aggressive Ninjara even in ranked and I just kept trying to press the issue. Should have taken a step back and totally retooled. Ranked really kinda rattles me.
BravesCountry
Banned
Ranked rattles me in the sense that I start to realize what patterns the other person is falling into but I don't think I've mastered the controls enough where I can counter them properly. The tactic will still work against me. Trying every time to keep slowing things down and really analyze how to attack weaknesses but it's a process.
I feel like revolvers have a long cool down so I typically go for counter punches or counter throws.
I never have much trouble with seekers, I usually treat them like regular gloves.
Nico_D
Member
I think it is the explosion radius that is the biggest problem. If I stop even for a second to counter, they send a new hit and I don't have time to get away. I may get a hit butvso will they and with bigger damage.
The game already features replays in GPs, I don't know why the devs didn't add the option for Party Mode as well. Also, saving and sharing replays like in MK8 would be great, hope we get something like this in an update.
If you wanted to do best of 3s in local lobby couldn't you just set it to first to 5 coins?
You get:
1 coin for a lose
3 coins for a win
So first to 2 wins will always get 5 coins first right?
Edit: or 6 coins?
On the WNF stream they couldn't figure it out and I don't think it's impossible
You get:
1 coin for a lose
3 coins for a win
So first to 2 wins will always get 5 coins first right?
Edit: or 6 coins?
On the WNF stream they couldn't figure it out and I don't think it's impossible
AquaWateria
Member
I wonder when we will receive a update relating to balancing the game?
Huh, i've been doing the exact opposite of that this whole time, taking it as her slowing dow to charge so now was the chance to attack (even if the attack would get slowed) but i've only been fighting on level 3 so far, so she hasn't been too mean about countering that.
UltraChingon
Member
Is there really no real way to play a normal 1v1 with two rounds on local? Is there a lan mode like pokken and mk8D? I ask this since friend just got it and going to play on the weekend. Concerned as i am watching the tournament.
I missed your response at first due to how fast the thread moves but thankfully I found it. My point in bringing up other fighting games is that although there are matchups that aren't good for certain characters, you can overcome those bad matchups by the amount of skill you have with your character alone. When it comes to this game, not only do you have to worry about character matchups, you also have to worry about stages and arm types.
To address the rarely played character point, let's take Dhalsim from SF5 as an example. Dhalsim players are rare because he's difficult to use and he's also a tough matchup for a lot of characters. However, if you are skilled enough with whomever you choose to play as, most of the time you can beat the rare Sim player based on skill alone. Those other games address the issue of unfair matchups with player skill. Skill matters more (imo) in those games than it matters in Arms because of that reason. I'm not saying that skill doesn't matter in this game because it clearly does, but it doesn't matter as much. Loadout choice shouldn't force you into a decision that you can't change during a match. That's why they already have the option to switch arms between rounds. It just needs to be expanded upon some.
In Arms you have to not only worry about your skill as whatever character you play as but also what arms you choose and the random stage selection which could have an adverse effect on your play style. Allowing you to choose whatever arms you want in between rounds doesn't take away the strategic and tactical options because it adds more choice to the matter. It's especially unfair when you think about the fact that someone might have more arms unlocked than someone else. Opening up your entire inventory doesn't solve that aspect, but it does go a long way towards mitigating it.
Now that I think about it, the fact that stage selection is random and not up to the players (in ranked at least) is kind of dumb. They should do what every other fighting game does and just allow both players to choose a stage and select between the two.
All I really want to see is matches to come down to player choice and skill and not randomness. Adding in the option to choose from your inventory takes away the arm randomness but then you'd still have the problem of stages. It's obvious that we are coming from two different perspectives on this and that's fine. This is probably one of the better discussions I've had on gaf.
Incitemaybe
Member
Wouldn't you just go into Versus 2p, press X to change the rules to whatever you want and pick Fight?
UltraChingon
Member
Err i mean wireless local sorry. Like they are doing for the tournament. (Or i am getting it all wrong)
AquaWateria
Member
Lol I just found out Chance the Rapper has a copy of ARMS.
Jaded Alyx
Member
It was a real mess. How did Nintendo have their set up for the Tournament? That worked fine.
If you put the switches next to each other they will connect on a wireless LAN directly to each other.
For the lobby I think you just set it up as first to 6 coins. The loser gets 1 and the winner gets three so even if you trade wins it should still be bo3.
Round 1: 3-1
Round 2: 4-4
Round 3: 7-5
Or
3-1
6-2
Even if there's 2 points for a draw it still a fair set I think.
I can't see how that doesn't work.
I am not willing to concede that point (at least not yet at this point in the game's life cycle) so we are arguing from very different premises, but I appreciate the debate!
Well, completely agreed. As it was expressed earlier, being able to bring in 3 arms of your strategic choosing allows you to have a plan B if your plan A didn't work in round one, or a plan C if you plan A worked in round one and failed in round 2 due to an opponent's plan B.
Or, you can do what you originally suggested and strategically pack an "anti-whatever" set (i.e. "anti-Helix" if he typically gives you enough trouble to warrant it). This is what I've done recently because I have a tough matchup against Barq and Byte- my third arm is something that sees limited use against other characters, but I double up on it as a default set when facing him, and have begun to also switch to it in maps that are obstructing my Plan A/B arms.
Furthermore in many contexts exactly the kind of extensive counterpicking you're talking about happens between matches, just not rounds. In Ranked you return to character select if a rematch is accepted, and can change character and full arms loadout to attempt to counter if desired.
I dunno, I really think that would be removing a strategic element of customization from the game. Your suggestion instead opens the field to endless direct counter pick ever single round and renders the idea of "choosing 3" meaningless in the first place. Even that whole interface actually wouldn't make any sense- its only purpose is to allow switching at the start of a round.
Kingpin Rogers
Member
Just like every other fighting game I can't do it. I can't play online without getting seriously pissed off when I lose and since I'm bad at fighting games that's quite often. Going to have to return the game otherwise I'll probably throw the joycon through the tv or just throw the Switch itself. I don't know why but the idea of losing to other humans pisses me off more than anything else. Doesn't help that my connection is laggy at times so it looks like my throws go through the opponent.
Fighting games just aren't for me, I'm good at every other genre but not fighters :/
Fighting games just aren't for me, I'm good at every other genre but not fighters :/
Jaded Alyx
Member
Have you tried fighting with people (friends, people here) who can maybe tell you what you're doing wrong?
Funny, losing to humans is ok to me, but I don't think anything is as boring as 1v1 vs CPU. But well, sounds like not a genre for you!
This is 100% false.
Evasion and light Arms are king in this game. If you don't have at least one of those going for you then you are at a disadvantage. Please stop pretending this game is the most balanced fighting game in existence.
I am bad at WAY more than just one other genre, so hey... 
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The more I play and get into becoming legit with Ninjara, the more I realize that he is extremely limited and probably underpowered/low-tier He's the ultimate newb-merking character in that it's extremely obvious when a player doesn't know wtf is going on and I can just take them apart in seconds, but at advanced levels he is missing a distinct niche that isn't done by someone else better, AND, quite unfortunately, his gimmick with blocking actually becomes a liability in some circumstances and even renders a couple of entire advanced mechanics completely unusable. A player that knows his shtick can essentially outplay him 1v1 in "standard ARMS" (imagine all characters were Byte while Barq is dead), and he has no "trap card" to activate. I very much doubt he will see any high level play. Gahhh!
All that said, I personally still love him and don't care about tiers. And his pink color swap matches Megaton perfectly which I use so I'm never abandoning him ever
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The more I play and get into becoming legit with Ninjara, the more I realize that he is extremely limited and probably underpowered/low-tier
He's the ultimate newb-merking character in that it's extremely obvious when a player doesn't know wtf is going on and I can just take them apart in seconds, but at advanced levels he is missing a distinct niche that isn't done by someone else better, AND, quite unfortunately, his gimmick with blocking actually becomes a liability in some circumstances and even renders a couple of entire advanced mechanics completely unusable. A player that knows his shtick can essentially outplay him 1v1 in "standard ARMS" (imagine all characters were Byte while Barq is dead), and he has no "trap card" to activate. I very much doubt he will see any high level play. Gahhh! All that said, I personally still love him and don't care about tiers. And his pink color swap matches Megaton perfectly which I use so I'm never abandoning him ever
okay my Kid Cobra is getting pretty decent though im just saying
AquaWateria
Member
I mean just take your time and see what you are doing wrong.
Try understanding the basics and also try not take games too seriously. People lose all the time so I see no reason to get mad. I dont know maybe I just dont care if I lose Lol.
I am bad at WAY more than just one other genre, so hey...
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The more I play and get into becoming legit with Ninjara, the more I realize that he is extremely limited and probably underpowered/low-tier
All that said, I personally still love him and don't care about tiers. And his pink color swap matches Megaton perfectly which I use so I'm never abandoning him everokay my Kid Cobra is getting pretty decent though im just saying
The auto evade from block is his only useful tool in higher level play. However, as you said, it's almost more of a handicap in many situations. At this point I think I can play every character at a moderately high level, and the more I played Ninjara the more I felt he has a severe handicap that's only topped by Byte & Barq when Barq goes down.
I'm not even sure how the developers would fix the problem. With B&B all you have to do is make it so Barq can't be hit or has perma-deflect and he shoots up the tier list. With Ninjara... I don't know. You can't really buff the teleport without making him broken.
I'm sure you're right that it isn't the most balanced but I think it's too early to make definitive statements either way. Considering we haven't had any balance changes yet I'd say it's a pretty damn solid footing to build from.
It's too early for a lot of things, but unless we find certain elements are far better than we think they are now, some things aren't changing unless the dev patches the game.
For example, Electric Arms are the only Arms that give you a 100% guaranteed follow-up in almost every situation. Meanwhile, going double Lights means you are much safer spamming punches than with most other Arms.
While we can find uses for Heavy Arms and obviously medium Arms are good, I don't think we'll find much that can cause a Wind Arm to be better than an Electric Arm. Obviously anything can happen, but this seems unlikely.
One of the rank 15 players does thisGuys, the trick is to purposely handicap yourself. Do what I do and just set all three of your arms to the same thing. That way when you lose (and you will, many many times
Electric is obviously good, but in my personal experience Ice works around the same, except it lasts a bit longer and opponent can still punch. Doesn't wind arms move faster too? Fire is my personal favourite, Cracker and Ram Ram are my go-to right now. Also, as someone who mainly uses lighter arms, facing something like a Parasol in ranked can totally shut you down in some matches. I'm hardly a class player by any means but I'm still just seeing possibilities and people trying different stuff.
BravesCountry
Banned
Didn't gore or somebody say that electric is nowhere to be found in the top ranks? I cannot personally attest to this, stuck in the middle ranks right now
Even if electric is a good property I feel the arms with the property are kinda underwhelming.
Ice doesn't guarantee a follow-up though. Against a skilled player you might be able to get a throw if they don't react in time, but anything else is just being hopeful. When an electric hits you're basically guaranteed a throw at the very least. In some stages you can combo an electric stun into a throw into a Rush. Ice offers nothing like that.
I haven't done a thorough test of every single Arm, but I know Poppers (wind) and Crackers (Fire) have the same speed and recovery time.
I stopped at rank 10 because the grind was just super boring. I can't imagine no one using electrics at higher ranks unless they're all rocking double Lights. If in fact no one is using electrics at higher ranks, they're missing out. Aside from the speed and recovery of Lights, or maybe a high curve Arm for specific scenarios, there's no significant advantage of other elements over electric.
BravesCountry
Banned
I find it hard to believe that if people aren't using it at the top ranks then they are missing out, they know of the properties of the different arms.
Even as someone in lower ranks, Electric isn't common, and I feel the electric arms are easier to deal with than a lot of the others. Hydra, Ram Ram, Cracker, Popper, Slapamander, Salamander, heck even Ice Dragon / Parasol / Chilla.
BravesCountry
Banned
I do like using thunderbird but I'm lowly rank 8, I don't think it counts for much. And I definitely don't see an abundance of electric either when I'm playing.
Thunderbird is cool, I just feel wide open using it, haha! I prefer to keep a bit closer distance. Revolver and Seekie are probably the most popular electric arms I face, and double Seekie in particular can be annoying, even if it's easy to punish if patient. (Spoiler: am not patient!!!)
TheGoreMagala
Member
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153496878
Hey guys, this is Jorpen, a rank 15, if you guys want to see what high level play at the moment is like and learn from it, with a guest appearance from me here and there. Also, Dan and I will like use this video and a few others and turn certain sections into gifs to exemplify tactics and such to learn and use.
Hey guys, this is Jorpen, a rank 15, if you guys want to see what high level play at the moment is like and learn from it, with a guest appearance from me here and there. Also, Dan and I will like use this video and a few others and turn certain sections into gifs to exemplify tactics and such to learn and use.
I don't expect every single good player to universally use electric Arms. My point was that if in fact there are absolutely no electric Arms users at the higher ranks, something is wrong there.
For instance, I've had no problems rising up the ranks. I only stopped at 10 because I was bored of the game. I don't think I'd have an issue getting to 15 if I felt like taking the time to do it and I use electric Arms almost exclusively.
I think it depends on the level of player you are, as well as the level of player you're fighting against. Double lights are the only Arms that really make me work for a win and that's only because they're difficult to close in on. Player skill factors into that but as an overall statement there aren't any other Arm configurations that give me real problems.
You think Ice Dragon, Parasol and Chilla are more problematic than electric Arms. To me that says you haven't fought anyone good with electric Arms, or that you just need to improve your play against Ice Dragon, Parasol and Chilla. None of the ice Arms bother me at all and I think the Dragons are even worse unless they're used exclusively as a secondary Arm for damage purposes.
But again, it's all about the skill level you're playing against. You may have fought better Dragon users than electric Arm users. Also, there's probably a reason why there are no single hit electric Arms that are light.
The worst thing about playing online with limited communication (emotes) is if you lose you don't want to exit the lobby because it comes across as rage quitting even if you have a legitimate reason for doing so like going to eat, and if you get your ass kicked and the person emotes after the match, if you don't respond it might give off that impression too, I always have to end on a win. I'm playing mind games with myself.
TheGoreMagala
Member
I can confirm that at least through rank 13-15 there are absolutely no electric arms used at all, and for good reason. They're really slow so a good player won't let you hit them with it and if you do hit them they'll make sure to jump so you can't grab them afterward. And with all due respect, I found after rank 10 the difficulty definitely spiked. The three spikes are rank 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, in my experience.
But yeah if someone is using electrics you better believe that the opponent will use lights to exploit the fact that electric weapons are weaker.
Come on dude, seriously? The video you just linked Jorpenn's first opponent is using an electric Arm, and at 5:05 he comments that double electric makes him want to die. While he could've been sarcastic, I took that as he doesn't like fighting against double electric.
Also, I don't feel like testing right now... okay maybe I will in a minute, but I've hit you with electrics when you had double Lights equipped and faster mediums equipped. Don't tell me they're easy to avoid or people just jump.
Finally, when I stopped at rank 10 there were VERY few players above that rank. Most of the people who are rank 15 now (Leafy and yourself for example) were rank 10 when I stopped playing ranked.
EDIT: And Jorpenn gets hit multiple times with the opponent's Thunderbird (one of the slower electric Arms in the game) and never once jumped. Just stop dude...
AquaWateria
Member
Man this game looks fun to watch.