Come on man, don't make it like that.
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At least thirteen dead as van hits crowds in Barcelona
- Thread starter hypotc
- Start date
Come on man, don't make it like that.
This doesn't work when people can be radicalised on the internet. It's not like this kind of thing just grows inside one country at a time, it's a global network.
Boy Wander
Member
I don't understand why some people think being tolerant of other cultures and clamping down on extremist factions within those communities are mutually exclusive.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Radicalisation through the Internet is an issue that will never be solved through any means. We can take some precautions, but there are ways around censorship. The thing is, heavy handed measures only work in Daesh's favour as that is precisely what they want.
If FB, twitter and friends would finally do their job and moderate their platform accordingly we would already be a huge step closer to stop this poison from spreading. But just like with Nazi accounts theres too much money to be made
Unless you plan on locking them up or tailing them 24/7 it's hard to prevent them from acquiring a van and running people over.
Business
Member
Preach. (edit: no pun intended actually...)
As for internet radicalisation just treat it like child porn, if you produce it, hold it in your computer or you spread it you go to jail.
perfectchaos007
Member
Shit. I'm going to probably avoid walking down streets with lots of pedestrians. Too many terrorists are seeing crowded streets as an opportunity to commit terror
Palette Swap
Member
Because it's easy, because there's an intuitive emotional appeal to heavy handed solutions, I guess.
In the grand scheme of things, some of these answers are bigger existential threats to the ideal, enlightened western democracy we strive for than these terrorist pieces of shit, even when they kill us.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Which is exactly what they want, making you afraid of living your life normally. Don't let them win, dude.
ClosingADoor
Member
The issue is, that this is not happening in most of Europe. Our governments have allowed that stuff to spread because they saw it as freedom of religion. But it is hate speech, plain and simple. We need to cut of the funds those people receive, we need to remove the people spreading these beliefs.
The difficult part is, what then. Because more often then not, if you sent these guys to prison, they will radicalize more. A lot of terrorist have a large record of crime. They went to jail over things. They didn't learn from that.
Boy Wander
Member
Is Texas a terrorist hotspot?
cr0w
Old Member
What happens when salafist manifestos are anonymous text posted on the internet, or videos taken in Syria and spread through WhatsApp, or in the form of nicely-produced web magazines and distributed in torrents? 'We' can't actually get at the people leading these movements.
You still can force the websites to shutdown or WhatsApp to ban these people.
Even if something goes through, the range of users from some random website is a lot smaller than regular social media.
ClosingADoor
Member
Sure. But that goes with anything. White supremacists can share their stuff through Whatsapp. But that doesn't mean we don't take down the people who go into public with nazi flags.
There is zero reason to have salafism and other extremists forms like it in Europe out in the open and allowed to be preached. By allowing it, we are allowing it to be normalized and spread easier.
This was really unnecessary.
hobblygobbly
Member
Problem is that they can only monitor to a certain extent particularly with nationals because of rights and lack of enough evidence, we can't effectively have government agencies have unlimited ability with no warrants and such for spying on people. If they did things could be a lot different but it's the reality of having democracies concerning laws and rights that can impede things like this.
It is the truth though isn't it. You will get the #notall crowd go against the #banall crowd and you'll have people post a #prayfor hashtag, make a nice profile pic with the flag of the affected country and then move on. Nothing changed, nothing will change until rinse, repeat it happens again.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Such a sad statement....that's honestly just so upsetting
Yeah, no.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Only if you believe it.
It wasn't that long ago that ETA and GRAPO terrorists were committing attacks each week. My mother's shop was rocked by a bomb back in the early 90's and I've been close enough to another one to know that explosives smell like fireworks.
I was not scared then and I'm not scared now. Terror attacks remain useless when you don't allow those turds to affect your life. We'll carry on, go out at night and have a few ones. They won't win.
The post he was answering to was a post that wanted to be supportive by sharing his experience in a similar situation. It was an unnecessary snarky reply to that.
And you want what? The time just to stop?
Westbahnhof
Banned
It's upsetting that people who are not European are talking about Europeans "having to live with the fear of terror".
Everyone around me is about as afraid of terror as they are of being hit my lightning.
And that's a good thing.
We get the same thing about people telling us about how dangerous our streets are. I would have no problem walking down any street in my area at any time of the day or night. People just love to paint with broad brushes, especially after an emotional experience.
DasPenguin
Member
Do you have streets in your country where you would feel unsafe? I'm guessing the answer is yes.
Of course, but it's not the general feeling.
HarryKS
Member
But you stay alive.
TRUE ORDER
Member
Innocent people being killed, sad indeed...
DasPenguin
Member
I'm guessing it's a general feeling for quite a few Americans. Some people are forced to live in not so pleasant neighbourhoods and it's not that easy to escape from it. That's why some of us feel that way. Doesn't mean the whole country is like that.
Still violent crime/gun deaths vs. terrorist attacks in Europe... Isis would have to hit three times a day and we still wouldn't catch up.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
RIP to the victims. This stuff seems to happen so regularly in Europe now,
Seeing the blurred footage of some of the (presumably) dead victims on tv is rough. Especially the children.
Seeing the blurred footage of some of the (presumably) dead victims on tv is rough. Especially the children.
fabricated backlash
Member
On their terms.
I was about 1.5km from the attack, read about it and was probably going to stay walking around Gracia because I just thought that it was safer to be there than to take public transit to go home.
My gf called me several times telling me to go home so I ended up going... Took a bicycle and cycled through not so busy streets to be sure. I was a little afraid when I had to take a train at Pl. Espana though.
I do understand that people that were close or live close to the attack probably feel much worse/insecure for the next few weeks...
Shame that it happened. Specially because it could have been avoided, after Nice they should have put some concrete blocks to protect the crowd that is there 16 hours per day, every day of the year.
My condolences for the families and friends of those who died.
My gf called me several times telling me to go home so I ended up going... Took a bicycle and cycled through not so busy streets to be sure. I was a little afraid when I had to take a train at Pl. Espana though.
I do understand that people that were close or live close to the attack probably feel much worse/insecure for the next few weeks...
Shame that it happened. Specially because it could have been avoided, after Nice they should have put some concrete blocks to protect the crowd that is there 16 hours per day, every day of the year.
My condolences for the families and friends of those who died.
forknknife
Banned
Exactly. And, besides, I really think that, in the same way as ETA lost much of their support as their acts got nastier and senseless, the same will happen with Daesh. You just can't win the minds and hearts of people by killing innocent men, women and children like this.
I think these Islamist movements are in a way just a fad the Islamic world is going through that will simply fail and fade away sooner than it may seem.
I recommend listening to this Sam Harris podcast with guest Graeme Wood who says that Isis is in a pretty bad shape in terms of finances but also in its support and following.
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/the-end-of-the-world-according-to-isis
Spaced Harrier
Member
I spent the last week or so in Barcelona, in fact I was on Las Ramplas exactly one week ago, with countless other tourists having fun, because that's what you do there.
I'm Irish, spent a week with a Polish girl, hung around with 2 Costa Rican's, one I guess "white" the other "Chinese", I met two Canadian girls there, one Indian and one Vietnamese. Everything was good. Positive young people opening themselves up to the world, sharing culture.
The people who did the atrocity in Barcelona aren't like that, they are closed off, isolated and hating, instead of facing towards the mix of cultures they turn away. Retreat into themselves, their culture and religion.
In a city of art, food, culture, sun and joy, they focus on destruction, division and isolation.
I feel sad for these utter cunts, they cannot even see what is around them to enjoy.
I'm Irish, spent a week with a Polish girl, hung around with 2 Costa Rican's, one I guess "white" the other "Chinese", I met two Canadian girls there, one Indian and one Vietnamese. Everything was good. Positive young people opening themselves up to the world, sharing culture.
The people who did the atrocity in Barcelona aren't like that, they are closed off, isolated and hating, instead of facing towards the mix of cultures they turn away. Retreat into themselves, their culture and religion.
In a city of art, food, culture, sun and joy, they focus on destruction, division and isolation.
I feel sad for these utter cunts, they cannot even see what is around them to enjoy.
To the people saying European cities have to live with the fear of terror... no. That's not a thing at all.
I was born and raised in Madrid back during the late 80s and 90s (and 00s) when ETA was doing terrorist attacks every other week not too far from my house (my house being near La Moncloa and all that) and even then it was not that scary.
These terrorist attacks are way less common, so no, of anything the streets in (at least) Spain are safer than they used to be. Stop spreading bullshit.
I was born and raised in Madrid back during the late 80s and 90s (and 00s) when ETA was doing terrorist attacks every other week not too far from my house (my house being near La Moncloa and all that) and even then it was not that scary.
These terrorist attacks are way less common, so no, of anything the streets in (at least) Spain are safer than they used to be. Stop spreading bullshit.
forknknife
Banned
I agree that they should have done something to block vehicles from accessing such a busy pedestrian area. Not like that would have stopped them from doing this in a different place but probably with fewer victims than what we've had in Las Ramblas.
Indeed, the UK has been used to major and frequent terrorism from the IRA for years before Islamic terrorism became a thing. Manchester was blown to smithereens but it didn't stop me from going in to the city centre.
My wife and I will be holidaying in Barcelona in October, with our hotel less than half a mile from Las Ramblas. This doesn't change our plans whatsoever.
My thoughts are with the victims, their families, the injured and all affected. Stay strong.
hans_castorp
Member
Shit. Right now in Cambrils there is something going on
Check Twitter.
Check Twitter.
People have really short memories and buy really easily into faermongering, sadly.
hans_castorp
Member
3 dead people at a bus Stop.
Shit.
Shit.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
It's also bullshit, coming from someone who actually lives in a major Eurpoean city that suffered some of the biggest terrorist attacks in Europe and with family and friends in Barcelona.
Thanks.
Hell, in 2009 this happened in the next block to the one I was living in in Burgos:
This is an attack with explosives by ETA to the Guardia civil garrison. Officers and their families lived there and still do to this day. Miraculously, nobody died.
So please, stop talking about a subject you know nothing about.
Audioboxer
Member
Hitler is dead and there are still modern day Nazis spreading oppression and hurt.
Ideologies and ways of thinking are nearly impossible to entirely eradicate when they offer power, control and empowerment over others. It's often either the males with power and money wanting to dictate and rule over everyone, or it's the outcasts, disenfranchised or those that feel they have no purpose in life that try to take fast track routes to glory, power and wealth. Unfortunately, a unique concept to Islamists tends to be martyrdom. It's not spoken about enough.
You take males, often those with lesser prospects in life, either due to poor employment, no financial wealth, no social power and often no real love (forced marriages or abused wives don't count). Then you dangle grand "illusions" of an after life where they will be hugely rewarded for martyrdom, making them famous in the real world (worldwide news) but more importantly their payouts in the afterlife and is it any surprise how it radicalises some to act? In their eyes what do they have to lose? They in fact have it all to gain when the police put that bullet into their skull after they've killed some heretics. Partly explaining why none of them ever want to come alive, but rarely suicide is what they go for as scripture hits them hard on suicide being a sin.
The ones carrying out a lot of these terrorist attacks are the males, often young, and also with a lot of the same backgrounds. Behavioural problems, especially anti-social behaviour which leads to issues fitting in. Probably not a lot of financial wealth. Probably not a lot of friends. Often single, but not always, some end up married but I bet their marriages are shams, arranged or at least, loveless. Many will be sexually repressed as well. That's another issue itself, as if some of these men aren't terrorists, they often end up being rapists or paedophiles.
You can apply some of the same lines of thought about to the hoards of men marching around in America as white supremacists. Often outcasts wanting to fit in somewhere, getting radicalised and then heading off into dangerous ideologies. Martyrdom doesn't really exist within white supremacy though, it's more about wanting other races wiped out whilst you are still alive. It's hard to actually "do that" though, as if you get violent yourself chances are you're either getting killed or locked up for life. If you don't believe in a fantastic afterlife you probably don't want to die, and as an extension of that spending your life rotting in a jail cell might not be better than your current life, even if it's a bit miserable. Obviously, people who don't give two shits about an afterlife or life in jail still go ahead and do heinous things. I'm speaking generally about why ideologies, doctrines and preachers that promise glory in an afterlife can further influence and radicalize minds.
At the very least I hope we can agree we have serious issues with males. Then at that, often younger males. Nearly all of the terrorist activity across all different ideologies and thinking is exclusively carried out by males. I'm talking about terrorist acts here, not acts of oppression, hurt and pain. As yes, anyone can provide examples of women being involved in crimes. When we talk about actual terrorism and terrorist activity it's nearly always males.
plagiarize
Banned
Good analysis.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Why spain though?
Condolences to the lost, RIP
Condolences to the lost, RIP