serenewarfare
Banned
That's more a product of the industry and WWE not building up enough challengers, so Cena has to run through the same guys all the time. I don't think that's on him.
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August Wrasslin |OT| When Russo Shoots, He Shoots To Kill
- Thread starter Hasney
- Start date
That's more a product of the industry and WWE not building up enough challengers, so Cena has to run through the same guys all the time. I don't think that's on him.
Professor Beef
Banned
Why does DM have the worst wrestling taste
Here's Hulk Hogan jobbing to Arn Anderson in 1996. Returning to wrestling as the biggest star in the history of the sport. After he single handedly boosted ratings in both WCW and WWF even before the NWO. You can say 'dirty finish' all you want, but Wyatts cheated and still lost to Cena multiple times before. Not to mention that it's Arn Anderson who's a solid hand, veteran guy. NOT a guy who was getting a major push at the time. Not to mention in Halloween Havoc of 1995 when WCW needed Hogan badly, he jobbed to a very young Big Show. And you can claim screwy finishes all day, but the point is he put him over in the end. Cena can't even do that. And it helped establish The Giant as their top heel for the time, for better or worse.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Nah. Ambrose has been carrying that feud from a character standpoint. Without him there for Seth to bounce off, Seth's vanilla.
Ambrose >>> the fulltime WWE roster. Only Bray comes close, really..
Any fan of Real Ass Stone Cold, God Lesnar, and That Motherfucker can't be accused of having the "worst wrestling taste."
You like Ryback.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Hey, that's my old youtube channel! Can't believe they didn't take that off. Awesome to see it still getting hits.
JesseEwiak
Member
John Cena put Brock Lesnar over than Hogan did for any wrestler in his entire WWF/WCW peak. If you truly think Hogan put over more people than Cena did, you're simply living in another universe.
Serpentine
Banned
if Dean Malenko were wrestling today he'd be one of those jobbers that got fed in 2 on 1 matches to Ryback. He'd be teaming with Stan Stansky.
Brock Lesnar put himself over John Cena. Brock Lesnar's build, his character, his everything is the result of the real things Brock Lesnar did. Cena did absolutely nothing to contribute to that, and if anything, it comes off as John Cena leaching off Brock's mainstream notoriety. John is their full-time guy. If you think WWE is using Brock as anything other than to put their boy over in the end, you're the one I question.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Some people are just broken
Incidentally, the above sentence is the perfect response anytime somebody asks why people like Eva Marie matches
JesseEwiak
Member
No. Plus, high up people believe he'd basically been cuckolded by Melina w/ the whole Batista thing.
JesseEwiak
Member
OK. Look. John Cena is literally Hitler. I get it. He should die, but not before he puts over Zach Ryder for his sins.
Friend, Seth-kun is about to make Roman Reigns look like a legit main eventer. After this is over there will no doubt about the abilities of MY champion.
I stopped wrestling during most of Morrison's -- what happened? I thought he chose to leave on his own even though WWE wanted him to re-sign?
You should go tell your old BBS buddies who are true wrestleheads the news.
JesseEwiak
Member
He chose to leave, largely because he was never going to get pushed to the top, outside of Kofi's role as Rumble insane spot guy.
Plus, like I said, it was well known Melina was banging Batista w/ Morrison's knowledge, and he didn't do anything to stand up for himself.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Well I wouldn't mind him taking a part-time role like Jericho, RVD, and Batista to give the roster some breathing room from having multiple rematches a week. As you said, unlikely, but I'm hopeful that the WWE will consider a few more part-timers instead of relying on Y2J and RVD.
Hulk put Brock over more than anyone before Cena. 12 years ago. When Brock was a rookie. And beat the living shit out of Hogan more than anyone had ever done, bloodied him, left him dead from a BEAR HUG. Hulk was off TV for over a year and never got any kind of revenge on Brock.
Working a program with Hogan in the 80s made entire careers. Working a program with Cena in the 2010s kills careers. The only guy to come out of one good in the last 5 years is Punk. Everyone else has looked like shit and had to be rebuilt or just given up on. Just working with Hogan was getting put over. You didn't need to beat him. With Cena, you can beat him and still have your career trajectory tanked. Hogan rarely, if ever, cut into guys' gimmicks in promos for no reason like Cena does. John Cena has been much rougher on the roster than Hogan ever was, especially since he wrestles lower card guys on TV all the time and beats them with ease when he should rarely if ever been wrestling on TV at all.
How about we blame them both? Blame vince for shitty booking, blame Cena for being complacent at best or a contributor to the bad booking at worst (nexus feud)
Laughing hard at the truth to keep from crying at the truth.
The only guys I can think of that haven't been completely ruined from feuding with Cena are: Punk, Bryan, Edge, and Orton.
None of them were elevated due to working with Cena, either. Cena has never made someone look better than they are.
JesseEwiak
Member
When John Cena is a part-time living on nostalgia, I agree, he should put over people super strong. But again, Hulk Hogan in 1992 or hell, 1997 would've died before putting somebody over like John Cena. Hogan took most of the match against Sting, as a heel, in the very type of match where he should've been squashed.
I wasn't John Cena was in charge of his booking and how often he showed up on TV and responsible for the booking of wrestler after they left his feud. But I know lolSummerslamJerichoEdge.
How about this. Most of the people pushed to John Cena's level simply weren't that good. Edge, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, as much as I poke at the Bryan fans, and Rob Van Dam (before being an idiot) all turned out fine in feuds with Cena, despite getting involved in dumb booking just like every Cena feud, because Vince McMahon is an old man amusing himself.
It's almost like those workers had real talent. I mean, who were the great people buried by John Cena who could be drawing money today? Dolph Ziggler? Zach Ryder? Damien Sandow? The Miz?
Wade Barrett, for one. He was in the main event picture for the better part of a year, had no problem opening up RAW with 20 minute promos, either. Cena completely buried him and he spent the next 5 years doing nothing until his BNB gimmick caught on.
And how many monster heels/finishers were built up only to be fed to Cena? Ryback, Umaga, Khali, Chris Masters. None of these rubs needed to be given to Cena. You can add Brock Lesnar in his return match and Bray Wyatt if you want, too. That's just off the top of my head.
JesseEwiak
Member
I honestly forgot Barrett. But even then, John Cena aside from lolsummerslamddt didn't choose to beat him or show back up as "Juan Cena" after losing a loser leaves town match. Again, if you want to say Cena doesn't fight enough being put over enough, OK.
As for monsters being fed to John Cena? That is a monster heel's job. To be built up and then be defeated by the top face. That's literally pro wrestling since I don't know, the beginning of time? Yeah, Kamala could've been beat by Randy Savage instead of Hulk Hogan. Guess what, the hero of the story slays the monster, not the side kick.
Serpentine
Banned
in short - don't do it
Ryback's fun. There is no shame in liking Ryback.
Hogan also put over Taker pretty early in his career with the WWE. Wyatt was white hot going into Mania and people saying he could be a guy to break the streak. Then Cena happened and now Wyatt gets middling reactions.
The thing is, I think many of us, myself included, often try to make wrestling out to be more than it is in terms of a story telling genre. I want epic tales with characters that are consistent, but also grow and change over time. I want them to be educated in classic plot structures and have some knowledge of human psychology. But they probably haven't had the chance to do much of that. Again though, I'm probably being unrealistic with my expectations and am demanding too much from pro wrestlers and writers.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
This thread is now the Alucard |OT| as we bid farewell to the greatest Wrasslin' OT of all the times.
Wrasslin' over here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=882281
Wrasslin' over here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=882281
The Elite
BOSS
As soon as it turned into a six man tag I turned it off. I was already disgusted enough by what they did to Bray.
There were moments that I thought Raw was ok but it just did so many things wrong. I wasn't too happy with the Dust heel turn. I don't think they need to be heels to take the belts off the Usos at this point.
Highlight for me was the Ambrose eulogy.
EDIT: RISE FROM THE GWAAAAAAAAVVVEE
Going to repost this in the other thread.
Sorry.
There were moments that I thought Raw was ok but it just did so many things wrong. I wasn't too happy with the Dust heel turn. I don't think they need to be heels to take the belts off the Usos at this point.
Highlight for me was the Ambrose eulogy.
EDIT: RISE FROM THE GWAAAAAAAAVVVEE
Going to repost this in the other thread.
Sorry.
avengers23
Banned
Sexually harassing Trish Stratus in a WrestleMania match vs. That picture of Malenko pretending to eat a dog
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
I dunno, he got a protected as hell exit where he was beaten by a kendo stick and kept trying to fight and was mentioned multiple times on screen after he left, I'm pretty sure it was on good terms.
I'm also pretty sure after the budget cuts and everything wwe probably wouldn't be too keen on bringing back talents from that era that aren't like..Jeff hardy. Either way, I liked him, hope he comes back and stops doing stupid syfy movies and has a character. Him and Rollins have legit heat, would like to see a fued between them.
EDIT_this the old topic augh, shit's confusing, wrasslefriends.
Morgadeth
Member
Sad fact that both of the women in that match are dead now.