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[AndyD]

I think I am ready to move from the Onkyo 626 to a modern 4k, HDR, HDCP2.2 receiver. I was eyeing a Pioneer Elite, the 100 or 300 series. Can't quite tell the difference in 101 vs. 102 though. We only have a 5.1 setup and I might add atmos to the mix, but won't go beyond that in the current spot. And 4 HDMI inputs I think is plenty (only have 2 devices to passthrough). Any other suggestions, ro words of caution?

 

[Sweep14]

I choose a Yamaha RX-V483. Happy with the purchase except that it doesn't seem to automatically switch the hdmi inputs when the amp is in sleep mode. I need to do it manually with the remote.

 

[JustCheeze]

I think I am ready to move from the Onkyo 626 to a modern 4k, HDR, HDCP2.2 receiver. I was eyeing a Pioneer Elite, the 100 or 300 series. Can't quite tell the difference in 101 vs. 102 though. We only have a 5.1 setup and I might add atmos to the mix, but won't go beyond that in the current spot. And 4 HDMI inputs I think is plenty (only have 2 devices to passthrough). Any other suggestions, ro words of caution?

A little late, so not sure if the advice will help.

I caution to stay away from Pioneer now a days because they are pretty much rebranded Onkyo products. Their low-end and mid-range products are just shady and sketchy from the spec sheet and the components in them now a days. Inflating the power output with a measurement of 6ohms, 1khz with 1 channel driven is scammy enough but to do it at CLIPPING (1% THD wtf!) levels is what pisses me off about their products.

The Pioneer LX301 rates 170w per channel, that's just bullshit when in reality it's really just a 100w capable receiver into only TWO channels being driven at 8ohms, full bandwidth 20hz-20khz.
Driving 5 channels or more? I'm absolutely sure it doesn't even go above 70w. Now, room size and speaker sensitivity plays an important role as well so 70w may or may not be enough, but my point is - why choose a product that bullshits in your face?

I'm not sure what your actual budget is though, but there are certainly better choices at this price point ($400 for the LX301 last I checked on A4L) like a Denon X3300w ($500 on A4L).

 

[catpurrcat]

I bought my STRDN1080 last week, it was $499 on sale everywhere and there was an Amazon Warehouse "good" unit for $398 plus tax I jumped on (it was brand new and had never been used, just returned).

I have to say I am blown away by this receiver and would absolutely recommend it without hesitation. I've owned Onkyos and Yamahas in the past, had good luck with the latter (not so much the former), but the quality of sound in the STRDN1080 is just outstanding. A myriad of different listening modes and options, but they're easy to maneuver through once you get the hang of it. There's a new Dolby Surround mode (that basically replaces all their previous upmixing modes) that really sounds great no matter what you put into it in particular, but whatever floats your boat as they say.

More over everything seems to work and work well. The 2 HDMI outs is also nice to have, allows me to put my Xbox One into one of my TV's ports and use Gaming mode -- no lag -- while using the other HDMI out for other components that don't need the Gaming mode.

After buying a 4K set earlier this year I was not planning on upgrading my 2012 receiver, but the a/v sync was just becoming too much of an issue for me between different components on my old Yamaha. If you can find it for $499 or under, I'd definitely go for it -- the Amazon Warehouse deals frequently pop up around $400-ish daily (I had been following it for a bit before pulling the trigger). I'd say the reviews are as good as advertised on this receiver from my experience, and I've owned a handful of these over the years.

Thanks for the review. I had Sony receivers for the past 10 years and this is the next model I want to upgrade to. The dual HDMI out is a really cool feature, I didn't know about that, thanks for mentioning it.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

A little late, so not sure if the advice will help.

I caution to stay away from Pioneer now a days because they are pretty much rebranded Onkyo products. Their low-end and mid-range products are just shady and sketchy from the spec sheet and the components in them now a days. Inflating the power output with a measurement of 6ohms, 1khz with 1 channel driven is scammy enough but to do it at CLIPPING (1% THD wtf!) levels is what pisses me off about their products.

The Pioneer LX301 rates 170w per channel, that's just bullshit when in reality it's really just a 100w capable receiver into only TWO channels being driven at 8ohms, full bandwidth 20hz-20khz.
Driving 5 channels or more? I'm absolutely sure it doesn't even go above 70w. Now, room size and speaker sensitivity plays an important role as well so 70w may or may not be enough, but my point is - why choose a product that bullshits in your face?

I'm not sure what your actual budget is though, but there are certainly better choices at this price point ($400 for the LX301 last I checked on A4L) like a Denon X3300w ($500 on A4L).

My old pro logic 2 optimus from radio shack kills my elite. Not that the elite sounds bad or doesn't do what it's supposed to, but I'd have rather spend that money on something a little better. Pioneer changed the amps in their elites a decade ago and they just haven't been the same. Maybe that's changed now but why risk it?

 

[JustCheeze]

My old pro logic 2 optimus from radio shack kills my elite. Not that the elite sounds bad or doesn't do what it's supposed to, but I'd have rather spend that money on something a little better. Pioneer changed the amps in their elites a decade ago and they just haven't been the same. Maybe that's changed now but why risk it?

In 2009ish or so, Pioneer introduced their own class-D topology. The concept was so that their receivers not only run cool, people don't have to break their backs moving an amplifier up a flight of stairs, it would also not require a huge transformer to produce a high wattage. Heatsinking can be cut down to reduce cost, class-D amps are cheaper to manufacture and thus the budget allows more license stamping from pointless network features (at this point, Atmos wasn't ready for prime time yet so Pioneer didn't have to pay for Dolby's licensing yet).

The problem? When class D amps were introduced, they promised everyone the moon but gave them the cheese. On paper, doesn't it sound great to have an amp half the size of a traditional class A/B, cost less, weighs less, and run cooler yet sound just as good?

Class D amps at that time were really only used in subwoofers. It's the only speaker in the system that requires a high burst of current and can maintain that without heating up the entire room. Because subs generally do not play higher than 120hz (in some extreme cases perhaps up to 160hz), a Class D amp fits the bill. Why? Because Class D amps do not sound good above the room transition frequencies, i.e the vocal range and the treble range. Many subjective and objective listening tests has been done and the general results were - they sounded anemic, dull and blunt. Because the midrange and low treble range are the region of frequencies where humans are most sensitive to, it's subjectively easy to tell the difference between a Class A/B amp and Class D amp.

Then in 2013ish, Pioneer reintroduced their D3 topology. It was on paper, objectively a fix for all the flaws their original class D design. Was it better? Yes. Scientifically speaking, it's better than many Class A/B amps in the same price range. But then Pioneer started throwing bullshit at people's face with shady specifications, they started using low quality components, they started to be... Onkyo - which ironically, sold their backsides to the latter anyways not long after.

Gone were the days where in the 90s, Pioneer was an undisputed king of amplifiers, pre-pros and receivers.

 

[AndyD]

Thanks guys. So onkyo and pioneer are out. I'll do some Denon and Yamaha research.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Thanks guys. So onkyo and pioneer are out. I'll do some Denon research.

Onkyo and Pioneer are fine. Unless you're running crazy high end speakers you're unlikely to notice the difference and I really doubt you need anything close to 100 watts per channel unless you run terribly inefficient speakers.

I run an HK that is rated for only 40 watts a channel and it has zero issue driving 5 old Paradigm Phantom V1s.

The issues brought in this thread would not really come into play until you start spend 7-800+. All budget gear will have to make compromises somewhere.

 

[JustCheeze]

Onkyo and Pioneer are fine. Unless you're running crazy high end speakers you're unlikely to notice the difference and I really doubt you need anything close to 100 watts per channel unless you run terribly inefficient speakers.

I run an HK that is rated for only 40 watts a channel and it has zero issue driving 5 old Paradigm Phantom V1s.

The issues brought in this thread would not really come into play until you start spend 7-800+. All budget gear will have to make compromises somewhere.

Well it's not just power. You'd be naive to think that.

Pioneer and Onkyo in recent years has had firmware issues as well. Onkyo had the HDMI fiasco a decade back, but recent years - it's been bugs with their network features and crashing on input switching. If a receiver cannot even do input switching properly, it defeats the whole point of it being called - a RECEIVER.
Also the fact that Onkyo ditched Audyssey for their in-house clearly inferior and almost pointless "AcuEQ" calibration system, that's clearly a disadvantage. Pioneer's own MCACC hasn't improved at all since 2011/2012ish either.

One last thing, your HK's 40watts is in no way an apples-to-apples comparison to Onkyo/Pioneer's 100watts. They don't even use a similar topology.

Point is - why pay for trouble?

 

[Gizmo 76]

Im thinking:

PS4 Pro -> Denon

Then:

Zone1 -> TV
Zone2 -> PSVR -> TV (separate HDMI for social screen)

Would that not work?

Bit of a bump, but...

Did you ever try this?

I’m using a STR-DN1080 with success using the same setup method.

It didn’t initially work.... I had to turn off all HDMI talking, and it would still lose the HDMI connection back at the TV as soon as the headset was powered on, but disabling HDCP on the PS4 fixed this. So I can now switch the STR-DN1080 between the 2 HDMI outputs to play with HDR, and then feed it back to the PSVR breakout box and back to the TV for VR times.

 

[shpankey]

Loving my Yamaha

 

[mave198]

If you got the scratch, I highly recommend Anthem's 720 receiver. Or the 520 if you absolutely don't need more than 5.1.

 

[greekappi]

So I've been perusing this thread for a while and am trying to see what I should get to upgrade to 4K HDR life. Right now I have an Onkyo and have been pretty happy with it (TX-SR608). I think I got it in 2011 or something. Anyway, my primary concerns are that is has all the latest and greatest 4K and HDR compliance and stuff and has at least 8 HDMI inputs, with all of them having the latest spec. I have tons of stuff hooked into my receiver and I still have to swap cables for some things, so 8 would be great. I have been looking at Denon and their cheapest one with 8 inputs is the S930H but I'm not sure what the difference would be in upgrading to the X2400H or the X3400H as $1000 is the absolute max I would be willing to spend, but why go that high if I don't need to?

Does anyone know the big differences between those 3 and if it is worth it for someone with a PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, and a gaming rig for 4K gaming?

And since I'm here, I'm needing to upgrade my speaker set up as I've had the same for 13 years now, a set of 5.1 Klipsch little satellite dudes that came with my first ever DVD player Receiver combo thing. I want to upgrade to a nice set of tower speakers, a great center channel (love movies) and surrounds for under $2K. Any recommendations on that? I know that's pretty vague but I have NO idea where to start for speakers. Also, anyone have a link to a crash course on how Dolby Atmos works? How many speakers do you need? Is it different from regular old 7.1? How so?

Thanks!

 

[Parapraxis]

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-receiver/

I have the denon listed here (AVR-S710W) and it's great

All six HDMI inputs and the one output are HDMI 2.0- and HDCP 2.2-capable

Yeah I have the s720w and LOVE it. ARC to my x900e, and everything switches turns on/off, flawlessly.

4k ready, and can be found reasonably priced.

 

[Parapraxis]

So I've been perusing this thread for a while and am trying to see what I should get to upgrade to 4K HDR life. Right now I have an Onkyo and have been pretty happy with it (TX-SR608). I think I got it in 2011 or something. Anyway, my primary concerns are that is has all the latest and greatest 4K and HDR compliance and stuff and has at least 8 HDMI inputs, with all of them having the latest spec. I have tons of stuff hooked into my receiver and I still have to swap cables for some things, so 8 would be great. I have been looking at Denon and their cheapest one with 8 inputs is the S930H but I'm not sure what the difference would be in upgrading to the X2400H or the X3400H as $1000 is the absolute max I would be willing to spend, but why go that high if I don't need to?

Most receivers have ARC , so you could use your TV HDMI inputs for a few things, no?

x2400 and x3400 look almost identical, with a few differences ie: one is 7.1, the other 7.2 you can compare the x3400 and s930H at the bottom, but honestly, the differentiators between all 3 don't look terribly huge.... I think unless you are an audiophile the S930H should be great for you. Just ensure it has everything you're looking for, and beyond that extra bells & whistles are just a bonus.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Most receivers have ARC , so you could use your TV HDMI inputs for a few things, no?

ARC audio is limited to 5.1 compressed, so yes you could but the audio from those devices would be gimped unless they were older items.

 

[greekappi]

Most receivers have ARC , so you could use your TV HDMI inputs for a few things, no?

x2400 and x3400 look almost identical, with a few differences ie: one is 7.1, the other 7.2 you can compare the x3400 and s930H at the bottom, but honestly, the differentiators between all 3 don't look terribly huge.... I think unless you are an audiophile the S930H should be great for you. Just ensure it has everything you're looking for, and beyond that extra bells & whistles are just a bonus.

Ok, the only difference I found that seemed significant was that the 3400 has Analog to HDMI scaling and HDMI to HDMI scaling of 4K 60 whereas the S930H only has it to 4K 30. What does this mean? The other thing is the 3400 has an EQ setup tech of MultEQ XT32 and the 930 has simply MultEQ. I can't notice anything else different except maybe some streaming shit which I don't care about.

 

[guitarguy316]

Ok, the only difference I found that seemed significant was that the 3400 has Analog to HDMI scaling and HDMI to HDMI scaling of 4K 60 whereas the S930H only has it to 4K 30. What does this mean? The other thing is the 3400 has an EQ setup tech of MultEQ XT32 and the 930 has simply MultEQ. I can't notice anything else different except maybe some streaming shit which I don't care about.

XT32 is worth it for way better sound. Also if you ever want to use it to upscale, you'll want it to be able to upscale 4k 60.

 

[Drama Zed Nod]

So I've been perusing this thread for a while and am trying to see what I should get to upgrade to 4K HDR life. Right now I have an Onkyo and have been pretty happy with it (TX-SR608). I think I got it in 2011 or something. Anyway, my primary concerns are that is has all the latest and greatest 4K and HDR compliance and stuff and has at least 8 HDMI inputs, with all of them having the latest spec. I have tons of stuff hooked into my receiver and I still have to swap cables for some things, so 8 would be great. I have been looking at Denon and their cheapest one with 8 inputs is the S930H but I'm not sure what the difference would be in upgrading to the X2400H or the X3400H as $1000 is the absolute max I would be willing to spend, but why go that high if I don't need to?

Does anyone know the big differences between those 3 and if it is worth it for someone with a PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, and a gaming rig for 4K gaming?

And since I'm here, I'm needing to upgrade my speaker set up as I've had the same for 13 years now, a set of 5.1 Klipsch little satellite dudes that came with my first ever DVD player Receiver combo thing. I want to upgrade to a nice set of tower speakers, a great center channel (love movies) and surrounds for under $2K. Any recommendations on that? I know that's pretty vague but I have NO idea where to start for speakers. Also, anyone have a link to a crash course on how Dolby Atmos works? How many speakers do you need? Is it different from regular old 7.1? How so?

Thanks!

I started this thread when i was looking in to a lot of options and eventually went with the Dennon AVR-X2400H. I can only speak for my self, but so far i've been very happy with it.

https://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/homecinema/avreceiver/avrx2400h

It has 8 HDMI connections (7 on the back , 1 on the front).

From the link above :

FUTUREPROOF IN EVERY WAY.
All eight HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs feature HDCP 2.2 compatibility and the latest HDMI specifications, including 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Colour sub-sampling, High Dynamic Range (HDR) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support.

 

[greekappi]

XT32 is worth it for way better sound. Also if you ever want to use it to upscale, you'll want it to be able to upscale 4k 60.

Ok sweet, that sounds good. Is this just the type of equalizer it uses when doing the auto room setup? And yeah, I think I'll go for the 4k 60. I'm guessing it just takes any lower than 4K feed and upscales it? So, a Super NES Classic or even an actual N64?

I started this thread when i was looking in to a lot of options and eventually went with the Dennon AVR-X2400H. I can only speak for my self, but so far i've been very happy with it.

https://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/homecinema/avreceiver/avrx2400h

It has 8 HDMI connections (7 on the back , 1 on the front).

From the link above :

FUTUREPROOF IN EVERY WAY.
All eight HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs feature HDCP 2.2 compatibility and the latest HDMI specifications, including 4K Ultra HD 60Hz video, 4:4:4 Pure Colour sub-sampling, High Dynamic Range (HDR) and 21:9 video, 3D, and BT.2020 pass-through support.

Great, thanks for the info and your take.

 

[catpurrcat]

I bought my STRDN1080 last week, it was $499 on sale everywhere and there was an Amazon Warehouse "good" unit for $398 plus tax I jumped on (it was brand new and had never been used, just returned).

I have to say I am blown away by this receiver and would absolutely recommend it without hesitation. I've owned Onkyos and Yamahas in the past, had good luck with the latter (not so much the former), but the quality of sound in the STRDN1080 is just outstanding. A myriad of different listening modes and options, but they're easy to maneuver through once you get the hang of it. There's a new Dolby Surround mode (that basically replaces all their previous upmixing modes) that really sounds great no matter what you put into it in particular, but whatever floats your boat as they say.

More over everything seems to work and work well. The 2 HDMI outs is also nice to have, allows me to put my Xbox One into one of my TV's ports and use Gaming mode -- no lag -- while using the other HDMI out for other components that don't need the Gaming mode.

After buying a 4K set earlier this year I was not planning on upgrading my 2012 receiver, but the a/v sync was just becoming too much of an issue for me between different components on my old Yamaha. If you can find it for $499 or under, I'd definitely go for it -- the Amazon Warehouse deals frequently pop up around $400-ish daily (I had been following it for a bit before pulling the trigger). I'd say the reviews are as good as advertised on this receiver from my experience, and I've owned a handful of these over the years.

Hey Len, if you’re still around, how the 1080 working for you post-xmas? Still doing well? I have the opportunity to get it for $400 USD (in Canada) and debating whether to go for it...currently using Xbox One X and PS4 Pro.

 

[Red Dolphin]

I'm getting similar issues to you with a PS4 Pro too. But not just in HDR content.

I've got a LG C7 65" with a Pioneer SC-LX59 Receiver. The receiver is a few years old now but the first 3 HDMI ports support HDCP 2.2 and 4:4:4. I had to change a setting on each HDMI port to change it from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 which I've done.

However several times when I first turn my PS4 on, nothing is displayed on my TV. I usually have to disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable out of the back of the PS4 or the HDMI input to the receiver. Then the picture will display. Other times it will display straight way but when the black background with the white Playstation logo is displayed, sometimes there is clear "interference" being shown with white flickering dots all over the screen. This is normally only noticeable during mostly dark scenes (like PS4 bootup or during the "Sony Interactive Entertainment presents" scenes).

This seems to happen even if I set everything to "auto" in the PS4 settings under Display or I force it to "YUV420" with or without HDR switched on. I even tried changing to a different HDMI input on my receiver and get the same issue. I don't know if it's my receiver causing the issue or my new TV or a combination of both. I never had this issue with the same receiver and my old Samsung LED TV but that was only a 1080p TV with no HDR.

I've not had any issues with Xbox One S though. The only issue I had on both PS4 Pro and Xbox One S is with HDR content displaying very visible "banding" in shots of skies. Where the gradient isn't gradual and subtle (anyone not familiar with "banding"). I read in another GAF thread http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310135 that it's much less visible if you set your Display to YUV420 for HDR content instead of leaving it to auto (which defaults to RGB for regular SDR content and changes to YUV422 for HDR content). This is a bit of a pain if you want to enjoy the best picture quality without having to change back to RGB or "Auto" for non-HDR content all the time.

Just an update on my situation. With the banding issue, this occurred when viewing content in HDR while my TV input was set to "PC mode". Turning this off eliminated almost all banding completely.

So the issue I have now is, if I want HDR for games, I need to set it to "Game Mode" on the TV as the input lag is very noticeable otherwise. However the picture is incredibly dull and is apparently a known issue on the LG OLED. So for now, I've switched off HDR on my PS4 Pro. I've left HDR on for my Xbox One X as I use that a lot for 4K HDR Blurays. Haven't yet played a game with HDR yet on Xbox One X.

I still get the handshake issue with my PS4 Pro where the picture won't display when I initially turn the console on and I usually change input on the receiver to something else and then back to the PS4 to get the picture to come back up. Or occasionally still get the white "snow" interference. Pretty frustrating when you spend a lot of money on this stuff to have all these issues.

On a side note, I've never been able to get ARC working on my current Pioneer receiver SC-LX59 Receiver. Pretty annoying when I want to watch Netflix via the TV. Forced to use an optical cable to get sound of the TV back to the receiver. Had the same problem with ARC on my previous Samsung LED TV from 2014 and now my current LG C7 2017 OLED. I'll enable ARC on the Receiver and attempt to set it on the TV but it tries to switch the option off on the TV and removes the option in the TV menu altogether. Or it will work somehow but as soon as you turn the TV off it reverts back to the TV internal speakers when you first turn it back on.

GRRRRRRRRR

 

[Drama Zed Nod]

Just an update on my situation. With the banding issue, this occurred when viewing content in HDR while my TV input was set to "PC mode". Turning this off eliminated almost all banding completely.

So the issue I have now is, if I want HDR for games, I need to set it to "Game Mode" on the TV as the input lag is very noticeable otherwise. However the picture is incredibly dull and is apparently a known issue on the LG OLED. So for now, I've set the TV back to one of the regular modes and just turned off all the post processing stuff that everyone recommends to do, and switched off HDR on my PS4 Pro. I've left HDR on for my Xbox One X as I use that a lot for 4K HDR Blurays. Haven't yet played a game with HDR yet on Xbox One X.

I still get the handshake issue with my PS4 Pro where the picture won't display when I initially turn the console on and I usually change input on the receiver to something else and then back to the PS4 to get the picture to come back up. Or occasionally still get the white "snow" interference. Pretty frustrating when you spend a lot of money on this stuff to have all these issues.

On a side note, I've never been able to get ARC working on my current Pioneer receiver SC-LX59 Receiver. Pretty annoying when I want to watch Netflix via the TV. Forced to use an optical cable to get sound of the TV back to the receiver. Had the same problem with ARC on my previous Samsung LED TV from 2014 and now my current LG C7 2017 OLED. I'll enable ARC on the Receiver and attempt to set it on the TV but it tries to switch the option off on the TV and removes the option in the TV menu altogether. Or it will work somehow but as soon as you turn the TV off it reverts back to the TV internal speakers when you first turn it back on.

GRRRRRRRRR

I think ARC only works if you are connected to HDMI 2 on the 2017 LG OLED. I remember trying to set it up on mine and it didn't work as i had it hooked up to HDMI 1.

 

[Red Dolphin]

I think ARC only works if you are connected to HDMI 2 on the 2017 LG OLED. I remember trying to set it up on mine and it didn't work as i had it hooked up to HDMI 1.

Yeah I have it hooked up to HDMI2 on the TV. I'm pretty sure it's my Receiver that's the issue. I couldn't get it working properly on my last TV either with the same receiver. Most forums I read say ARC is really hit and miss.

The other reason I want ARC working is so I can see the Receiver volume on the TV display like you can for all other HDMI sources as it's impossible for me to see the volume on the receiver itself as it's too small.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Yes you can connect via optical and then in the receiver settings there should be something related to audio latency adjustment (in case the audio is out of sync).

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Yeah I have it hooked up to HDMI2 on the TV. I'm pretty sure it's my Receiver that's the issue. I couldn't get it working properly on my last TV either with the same receiver. Most forums I read say ARC is really hit and miss.

The other reason I want ARC working is so I can see the Receiver volume on the TV display like you can for all other HDMI sources as it's impossible for me to see the volume on the receiver itself as it's too small.

Some TV's don't pass through 5.1 or higher signals, depends on the TV.