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Batman R.I.P.: an Official Thread for Speculation, Discussion, and "OMGWTF" Hysteria.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
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Darkflight
Member
NOOOOOOOO!favouriteflavour said:
ToyMachine228
Member
Morrison is coming back to Batman after the conclusion of the Battle for the Cowl. Didio said it in an interview with Didio this week or last week. The interesting thing will be...
Will Dick be Batman then?
dark steve
Banned
I just read it. Personally, I think it was a whimper, not a bang. When it's the "conclusion" of a story arc, you generally have conclusions.
That said, I think that it's possible that there simply isn't any more (or much more) to the Hurt and Black Glove stories. Not in the sense that Morrison is intentionally leaving it open-ended, but in the sense that
Two things:
1. Was the reason ever given for Zurr Batman carrying around Caligula's wreath? I assumed it was his own form of trophy-taking, but I wanted confirmation.
2. Has anyone collected all the things Morrison has said about his run/R.I.P.? It'd be fun to see what statements bear out (like the everybody in the world knowing the villain one).
That said, I think that it's possible that there simply isn't any more (or much more) to the Hurt and Black Glove stories. Not in the sense that Morrison is intentionally leaving it open-ended, but in the sense that
the devil references, like so much of the other symbolism, is a mere distraction from the fact that Morrison got us excited about the same story we've been told a thousand times: crazy eccentric asshole comes in to ruin Batman's shit, seems to get the upper hand, but fails in the end because he isn't our crazy eccentric asshole. The Black Glove = Dr. Hurt = Mangrove Pierce. He's some jackass who thinks he's the ultimate in evil, but for the DC universe and the Batman mythos, that's nothing new.
Two things:
1. Was the reason ever given for Zurr Batman carrying around Caligula's wreath? I assumed it was his own form of trophy-taking, but I wanted confirmation.
2. Has anyone collected all the things Morrison has said about his run/R.I.P.? It'd be fun to see what statements bear out (like the everybody in the world knowing the villain one).
LiveFromKyoto
Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, Morrison was pretty clear that he was going to stick around with Bats after all this. I'd really disappointed if he didn't, and I definitely wouldn't be buying the book regardless of who's writing it. The Bat books have been assembly-line comics for years, he's one of those characters that inspires great one-off stories from writers, but the monthly Bat-family churn from the Chuck Dixons of the world who they always get to write them does nothing for me.
favouriteflavour
Member
Darkflight said:
They are making Superman the flagship Superman title again with James Robinson in control. Action to become the home of Nightwing and Flamebird.
favouriteflavour
Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
I agree completely. For the most part the most iconic superheroes actually have very few great stories. Despite being great characters they are frequently in incredibly boring stories. They need writers like Morrison who have big ideas and aren't afraid of changing things up.
Prime crotch
Banned
It's just Batman's scar on his unconscious, he used that as his trigger.YakiSOBA said:
Darkflight
Member
Urgh, I've been hating Robinson's dialogue since he came onto Superman.favouriteflavour said:
ToyMachine228
Member
Yeah, if there's going to be anything really lastingly done to Bruce it seems that Final Crisis #6 is going to be when it happens. Well, anything further done to Bruce after RIP.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
ah.. what the hell. If Morrison and Johns are offf these I'm getting out. :/favouriteflavour said:
I loved that last shot of Nightwing.
Prime crotch
Banned
Haven't you been reading the run? On the start of this issue he mentions he found a scar on his unconscious and that he thought about making a backup system, that's ZEA Batman.YakiSOBA said:I don't get itWhat do you mean he used as a trigger.. his parents were murdered yet, so he was just an innocent kid right?
Isn't Greg Rucka taking over Action, though? It still might be good after Johns leaves. And he's still doing Superman: Secret Origin with Gary Frank, too, so it's not like Johns is leaving Superman completely post-New Krypton.
I had a feeling Johns would be dropping one of his monthlies so that he could go full-time on The Flash. And even though I love his work with Supes, I'd rather see him drop the Big Blue than Green Lantern or JSA.
I had a feeling Johns would be dropping one of his monthlies so that he could go full-time on The Flash. And even though I love his work with Supes, I'd rather see him drop the Big Blue than Green Lantern or JSA.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Tamanon said:Wait....Johns is coming back to the Flash?
AWESOME if true. Flash has sucked except for the Bart's death arc since he left
He and Van Scive are doing a "Rebirth" of Flash just like they did with Green Lantern lo those many years ago. Most likely leading to a new ongoing series.
Prime crotch
Banned
There's been a constant Satanic theme throughout Morrison's run, even before RIP started..hmm missdirection?
ToyMachine228
Member
thetrin said:
I haven't seen concrete proof within Final Crisis, but Morrison has said that Bruce is Batman during Final Crisis, it's just a "different" Bruce Wayne. Take that as you will.
Prime crotch
Banned
THE END OF AN ERA! BATMAN KILLED BY...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/article1982939.ece
fuck you The Sun
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/film/article1982939.ece
fuck you The Sun
ToyMachine228
Member
Fatghost said:
I really think that the fallout will have more of an effect on other characters in the Batman universe. In the end, we can probably be pretty sure that Bruce Wayne will not only return, but will be Batman again. But how will RIP and Final Crisis effect characters like Dick, Tim, Jason, Selina, Hush, Joker, Alfred and Damian? That will be the interesting part.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Prime crotch said:
:lol
Come on, it's contradicted in the very next sentence!
Fatghost said:
I kind of agree. I thought the issues leading up to it were amazing, particularly the one where he's stumbling through Gotham cracked out and #680 with its visually poetic ending, but the last issue rushed through the Hurt thing and the 'death' was the ultimate cop-out comic book death.
The lone saving grace is the way it parallel's Joker's phony ending in Death in the Family. There's a subtext there.
The only other thing I can take from it is that since he's in Final Crisis, the real death is to come.
ToyMachine228
Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
It's a possibility. I mean the last we've seen of him in Final Crisis, he was not doing well. And his "fate" will be decided in Final Crisis 6. And Grant and Didio keep telling us to "expect the unexpected" so I'm hoping...
Finally got around to reading it. I am of two minds about it.
On the one hand, it was a solid issue that closed out the RIP story. There were a few loose ends, but I expect those to be wrapped up in the months to follow.
On the other hand, RIP as a whole was a COMPLETE FUCKING DISAPPOINTMENT. The biggest Batman reveal in 70 years? I must have blinked and missed it. The Black Glove turns out to be a
And on the whole issue of Batman
It's not like RIP was a bad story, it was just really poorly marketed. It was nowhere near as dramatic or intense as DC was selling it to be, and is nowhere near worthy of the "OMGWTF hysteria" mentioned in the thread title. Terrible, terrible disappointment. It was like the X-Men 3 of Batman comics.
And I do have to wonder if Morrison may have been forced into rewriting RIP too, because something just doesn't add up. Morrison usually excels when it comes to story conclusions, but this just really fell flat.
On the one hand, it was a solid issue that closed out the RIP story. There were a few loose ends, but I expect those to be wrapped up in the months to follow.
On the other hand, RIP as a whole was a COMPLETE FUCKING DISAPPOINTMENT. The biggest Batman reveal in 70 years? I must have blinked and missed it. The Black Glove turns out to be a
group of nobodies, led by some character we have never heard of before. I'm not saying I wanted Dr. Hurt to be Thomas Wayne (that would have been awful), but the fact that he is a completely new character really deflates the whole "What/who is the Black Glove?" mystery.
And on the whole issue of Batman
dying... again, another fucking lame execution. That whole helicopter scene was flat out terrible, from beginning to end. Add to the fact that Bruce is still alive and (relatively) well in Final Crisis--which happens after RIP--and it really takes any impact out of this whole story.
It's not like RIP was a bad story, it was just really poorly marketed. It was nowhere near as dramatic or intense as DC was selling it to be, and is nowhere near worthy of the "OMGWTF hysteria" mentioned in the thread title. Terrible, terrible disappointment. It was like the X-Men 3 of Batman comics.
And I do have to wonder if Morrison may have been forced into rewriting RIP too, because something just doesn't add up. Morrison usually excels when it comes to story conclusions, but this just really fell flat.
ToyMachine228
Member
ultron87 said:
The entire series is great, I think most people's disappointment is with the end result. And hopefully people will get that end result they are looking for in Final Crisis #6. And definitely pick up the Batman RIP graphic novel in February.
ToyMachine228 said:
That's bullshit. The ending to Batman RIP should come at the ending of Batman RIP, not Final Crisis.
I'm also hoping for a more satisfying resolution (or any kind of resolution, really) in FC and Morrison's "Last Rites" story in the next couple issues, but structuring the story that way is poor form.
ToyMachine228
Member
Blader5489 said:
It's an odd way of doing things I agree. But I think RIP is more about Batman's mental state, and Final Crisis will be about his physical fate. Granted, I loved the RIP arc, and I'm definitely looking forward to not only Final Crisis winding down, but also the fates of characters like Nightwing, Robin, Jason Todd, Selina, Hush and the Joker post-RIP and Final Crisis.
I think where RIP really fails is that very little has actually changed.
Jezebel Jet turned out to be the villain, but she was a newly added character anyway.
Alfred is still alive, Dick, Tim and Damian are still alive, Bruce is either alive or "dead" off screen somewhere, and can easily come back, Bruce went crazy but it turns out that it was his plan to go crazy to begin with...etc.
In fact, if Batman didn't disappear at the end of 681, it would just be another story arc and next issue could easily be business as usual.
Jezebel Jet turned out to be the villain, but she was a newly added character anyway.
Alfred is still alive, Dick, Tim and Damian are still alive, Bruce is either alive or "dead" off screen somewhere, and can easily come back, Bruce went crazy but it turns out that it was his plan to go crazy to begin with...etc.
In fact, if Batman didn't disappear at the end of 681, it would just be another story arc and next issue could easily be business as usual.
ToyMachine228
Member
Fatghost said:
Again, I think it's in Bruce's absence, that you're doing to see character's like Dick, Tim, Damian, Alfred, Hush, Joker, Jason, and Selina go through big events. I personally think...The below isn't spoilers, just rampant speculation.
Dick will become Batman and die, as Batman right before Bruce's return.
Tim Drake will become Red Robin.
Damian will become Robin after Bruce's return.
Tim Drake will become Red Robin.
Damian will become Robin after Bruce's return.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
omg rite said:
That's so ludicrous for so many reasons, not the least of which is because not one person on Earth read 681 free from the prejudice of considering that possibility that it was already tampered with, so every space case with a H.E.A.T. bumper sticker can read whatever he wants into it.
Not saying you ever had a H.E.A.T. bumper sticker, but your theory is pretty bonkers.
What could have possibly been changed? Add ambiguity to The Black Glove's identity? Who gives a fuck? Because Morrison hyped it up or because DC solicited it a certain way? Who gives a fuck?
Is the hardcover collection going to have some video hologram of Morrison's appearance at NYCC on a loop on the cover?
"The biggest surprise in seventy years!
*kzzt*
The biggest surprise in seventy years!
*kzzt*
The biggest surprise in seventy years!
*kzzt*
The biggest surprise in seventy years!
*kzzt*
The biggest surprise in seventy years!
*kzzt*"
"Manager, I want a refund! False advertising!"
"Rightfully so, sir. Here's your 29.99 back. I am so sorry."
"Hey, it's not your fault. It's those animals at DC Comics."
"Yeah, seriously. Fuck those guys."
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Blader5489 said:
The 100,000 people keeping the direct market afloat? I'm sure DC really cares more about them than the millions of people in perpetuity who will be buying the trade for the next decade.
People who buy floppies would have bought 681 regardless. Look at Spider-Man. After all the hubub about One Last Day, it's still one of Marvel's biggest sellers.
So, yes, again, who gives a fuck, really.
dark steve
Banned
I'm sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that we shouldn't care about the quality of a comic as long as it sells well?
LiveFromKyoto
Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Sorry man, I had the exact same thoughts as I was reading it and I wanted Hal to stay dead.
Two things in particular - the Thomas Wayne thing could have been rewritten, in the context of the narrative it wound up being so throwaway despite the buildup earlier. "I'm your father!!" "No you're not." "Okay, fine! But I'm still really, really evil."
But that's just a maybe.
The main thing that set off bells for me was that the 'death' was so inconclusive and cliched it felt like it was redone by editorial fiat to leave things open-ended. Come on, does that death say "Grant Morrison" to you? Given the tone of the whole story, you know he was building to something operatic, theatrical, some Grand Guignol, not the ol' "heroic sacrifice explosion with no body" trick. That's so Michael Bay.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
LiveFromKyoto said:
I don't know, man. This whole shit screams 360 Waggle to me. "Oh, man! Nintendo announced one-to-one waggle before the conference! Otherwise there TOTALLY would have been a 360 announcement!"
Since there was word before hand of editorial strife, now everyone has that planted in their brains. What's so wrong with the way he "died"? He's Batman! What on Earth were you expecting? He thinks of everything!
LiveFromKyoto
Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Something more interesting. Something more psychological. Instead, we got the most common death in comics that there is - inconclusive death by heroic explosion.
Really, if that's what you had up your sleeve, would you have the guts to get up in front of the world and tell everybody they were going to be shocked into a coma by that ending?
If Morrison is going to kill off Bruce Wayne after 70 years and spend half a year doing it, I'd like to think he's got the writing chops to at least give him his own unique ending.
But, I may be complaining too much too early. We'll see what happens when Final Crisis #6 hits in 2010.
Prime crotch
Banned
I don't think the book has ever been about Batman's death, we assumed RIP meant Rest In Peace, the whole core of the story was Batman's schtick, that he's prepared for everything. And you even see him "die" and come back, literaly. I mean, being buried alive only to came back alive and kicking?
That's why I don't think Dr. Hurt's identity was that meaningful to the ending, the hype machine did damage my appreciation of the book though, but RIP was a fantastic run.
That's why I don't think Dr. Hurt's identity was that meaningful to the ending, the hype machine did damage my appreciation of the book though, but RIP was a fantastic run.
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