BenjaminBirdie
Banned
682: Great stuff. Won't do anything to staunch the flow of fanboy pus, but cements this is a definitely Morrison run on the book.
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Batman R.I.P.: an Official Thread for Speculation, Discussion, and "OMGWTF" Hysteria.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
- Status
Primethius
Banned
Wow, I just read it. Love how it ties into FC which makes the wait for the next issue even harder.
Although, I admit, I had to re-read the issue because at first I thought the scene at the end took place during the isolation experiment, so my reaction initially was a bitexaggerated.
Amazing issue nonetheless.
Although, I admit, I had to re-read the issue because at first I thought the scene at the end took place during the isolation experiment, so my reaction initially was a bitexaggerated.
Amazing issue nonetheless.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
BenjaminBirdie said:
BB, me and you pretty much always agree on these things, especially when it comes to Morrison generally. What did you think of Batman's son, in the black Batmobile with red lights, ramming the Joker the fuck off the road? Loved that. I thought the whole issue was really powerful to be honest and the last page was particularly touching--very sad actually. I'm still confused as to the meaning behind the trigger phrase--it even appears there at the end. Does it tie into Bruce's mention that children will sometimes develop a cover personality after suffering extreme trauma? Is that all Batman is, ultimately? I need to re-read the entire arc but perhaps you can also clear this up more definitively--who the hell was the Black Glove?? I take that he's apparently some sort of deranged doppelganger of Thomas Wayne?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
bob_arctor said:
No idea, really. #666 seems to imply it's the devil himself.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
BenjaminBirdie said:
Yes, this is exactly how I interpreted it. Or at least the Devil inside Bruce. The Black Glove being his own as it punches through that helicopter windshield. And Blader, thanks for that--pretty obvious now when I think of what Thomas Wayne says there at the end.
What else I thought was dope: Bats' girl, or enemy, or whatever, Damian's mom, all up on the scene running shit like some old-school badass with the "I got this" vibe. Campy but in the good and funny way and she wasn't kidding at all (Jet in a jet! :lol )
In the end, I take "R.I.P." not as a story of Batman's death but one of how perhaps Batman has figured out a way to cheat it entirely. He will never rest in peace, at least not for the duration. He will never allow himself to.
MisterHero
Super Member
:lol :lol :lol
Earth-2 Batman (the original Batman) died as well as the JLA Batman who dies with the rest of the JLA and they are resurrected 3000 years later.
Except Plastic Man. He was turned into concrete and existed as shards and particles floating in the ocean for all that time. :lol :lol
I know at least two of them are real.krypt0nian said:
Earth-2 Batman (the original Batman) died as well as the JLA Batman who dies with the rest of the JLA and they are resurrected 3000 years later.
Except Plastic Man. He was turned into concrete and existed as shards and particles floating in the ocean for all that time. :lol :lol
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
bob_arctor said:
Exactly. It's a very esoteric story that got unfortunately got caught up in "real world" continuity and "event" ramifications.
ToyMachine228
Member
bob_arctor said:
Frank Miller sort of played with that in The Dark Knight Returns. With old Bruce Wayne having to "fight" against his inner urge to become Batman again. Bruce Wayne had to "fight against" Batman.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
diunxx said:
Whoops, nm
Since being laid off I held off my comic rounds for a couple months. Seeing this thread bumped up every week though was too much and I caved and bought the final RIP issue and the new one.
I thought it was a excellent story and epic conclusion. The following issue if anything was disappointed because I was running off comic adrenalin going into it, but it make sense to do before the story continues.
I thought it was a excellent story and epic conclusion. The following issue if anything was disappointed because I was running off comic adrenalin going into it, but it make sense to do before the story continues.
ToyMachine228
Member
Just picked up and read Batman #682. Definitely interesting, and definitely more of a Final Crisis tie-in, than RIP. Maybe #683 will tie into RIP more. Not that it really matters to me, it's good nonetheless.
Also, the last two pages...Not what I expected them to be doing with Batman captive. Not that it's a bad thing, just not what I expected.
Also, the last two pages...Not what I expected them to be doing with Batman captive. Not that it's a bad thing, just not what I expected.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
ReconYoda said:
No. It was just a lump of stuff made by Darkseid's minions.
ToyMachine228
Member
So that panel that showed
Batman and Robin going into that chamber built to isolate "monster men" or whatever that was...Doctor Hurt was in that frame. Does that tie into something, or just a semi-random tie-in?
There seem to be a pretty good chance that the current arc will tie his entire Batman run together in classic Morrison style.
Alfred was pretty suspicious throughout the Morrison's run. Now we find that the Lump is Alfred in his memories. I wonder if his whole run was actually Batman memories twisted by the machine.
ToyMachine228
Member
I'm starting to think that RIP is one big Final Crisis tie-in...That'd be an amazing twist. That the "attack on Bruce's mind" is the one that we see in Final Crisis #2 and in Batman #682.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Hasn't it pretty much looked that way for a long time? There was a totally awesome rumour going around back when FC started that I think would be too awesome if it came true:
that Bruce would "die" and ascend to become a New God.
I personally totally dug #682. #683 is out in two weeks, hopefully it gets into the chronology of how RIP & Final Crisis fit together, and what happened after #681's explosion. That explosion is the only part of the whole story that hasn't sat right with me.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
benjipwns said:
Photoshopped!
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
benjipwns said:
You want a story development, not on the premise of what works, but on the premise of what was advertised?
ToyMachine228
Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
I'm really hoping that people get the result or "fate" for Batman that they had hoped for in RIP in Final Crisis #6. That would really pull all of this together if RIP ended up being one big Final Crisis tie-in and the events of RIP are really in Bruce's mind are being forced on him by Darkseid's machine.
benjipwns
Banned
No, I had assumed there was a relevancy to the statement and that the story had actually been planned out to justify the statement. Not that it was hyperbole to sell books when it's something silly and trivial like a dream or the devil. If theBenjaminBirdie said:
Thomas Wayne
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm already pretty much convinced that Morrison was full of shit when he gave that "70 years" quote. Unless he really did have Thomas Wayne in mind, in which case it's probably for the best that it was left ambiguous.
K, can someone PLEASE explain the whole story to me... I don't freaking get it! (Spoiler tag it if you have to, but I don't get the whole story, even from the very start)
edit: nvm, i found a good explanation of the 3-batmans that i didnt understand!
(Spoiler tag it if you have to, but I don't get the whole story, even from the very start) edit: nvm, i found a good explanation of the 3-batmans that i didnt understand!
Three ghosts of Batman
The "Three ghosts of Batman" is the fan-given name of a group of fictional characters, DC Comics supervillains and the name of the comics sub-plot in which they appear. These three individuals have appeared during Grant Morrison's run on Batman. All three have worn variants of his costume. All three of them have ties to the GCPD, as former policemen. In a strange twist, Batman explains to his butler Alfred Pennyworth, that he saw three similar figures in a past vision, but he believed it was merely a hallucination. As it turns out though, what Batman thought was a hallucination turned out to be a forgotten memory in which three men were chosen from the police force to train with Batman to replace him should anything ever happen to him. During the test Batman had himself isolated so that a Doctor Simon Hurt could study his moves and what drives him. During his time in the isolation experiment Batman hallucinated the death of Robin and was driven with guilt. When the three replacement Batmen came in to challenge them, he took them down easily. Dr. Hurt decided that the three Batmen needed to be driven by rage and sorrow, so he killed the third man's family, pouring glue in his brothers eyes, and carving up his sister. He also began adding venom and monster serum to the second cop, Bat-Bane, until that cop was driven to kill his own family in rage. Doctor Hurt put hypnotic suggestions into Batman's head to help him forget the whole experience and dismiss it has a bad dream. The three replacement cops were hidden away to await the day they would return.[2]
[edit] The Three Ghosts
[edit] Muller/"Bat-Cop"
Battled the Joker in Batman #655 (the first part of the Batman and Son storyline) who believed he was fighting the real Dark Knight. Using his years of experience of battling the real thing, the Joker nearly killed him.[3]
Battered and bleeding, this impostor pulled out a handgun and shot the Joker in the face, disfiguring him even further. Later in the issue, Commissioner Gordon explains to Batman that he was an ex-cop who seemingly snapped and decided to "clean up the city" using vigilante methods.
It is revealed in Batman #674, that this officer's name was Josef Muller. He was an ace marksman, but had both his hands broken by Batman while in the isolation chamber.
[edit] Branca/"Bat-Bane"
In Grant Morrison's Batman #664, Batman discovered that a pimp had been supplying an ex-policeman who lived on an abandoned facility with prostitutes. The women eventually turned up dead. Batman tracked him down and was severely beaten by the man, who was dressed in a mixture of Batman's and Bane's costumes. Batman suspected the imposter had used Hugo Strange's Monster Serum and daily venom shots to gain his size and strength.[4]
Batman #674 established that this monster really was force fed the growth-enhancing serum of Hugo Strange and the strength-enhancing super-steroid Venom. This made him strong enough to lift a Batmobile over his head during his battle with Batman and Robin. It is also revealed that he was a family man by the name of Branca, who eventually killed his own family while driven by rage from the drugs that Doctor Hurt had put into him.[5]
[edit] Lane/"Bat-Ghost"
Batman #674 revealed that the third man's name is Lane. It never clarifies if that is a first or last name. This third Batman appears twice in two different times. First he appears to Bruce Wayne's son Damian. Damian has taken the mantle of the Batman some 10 to 20 years in the future. In Batman #666, an adult Damian has inherited the mantle of the Bat and is seen pursuing this third Batman "ghost" who has been systematically murdering Gotham's ganglords, claiming to be the son of the Antichrist come to begin the end of days. He is eventually killed by Damian, who throws him out the window of Hotel Bethlehem. This "Batman" uses the basic costume, seemingly upgraded with either Firefly's or Heatwave's flamethrower. Like the "Bane" ghost, his face is completely hidden by his mask (goggles and a metallic plate conceal his eyes and mouth).
We see this third man again in the "present" storyline in Batman #672. Here he is referred to as the Third Man and attacks the Gotham City Police Department asking for Commissioner Vane. He then attacks Batman on the roof where he tosses him into the Batsignal. During the battle, Batman has a heart attack and goes into cardiac arrest. The Third Man then takes Batman and revives him with the intent to torture him in a rundown location. While Batman is captured with the Third Man, he has a series of visions that involve his final confrontation with Joe Chill who killed Bruce Wayne's parents, Thomas and Martha, some sort of isolation test Batman did earlier in his life, the death of Robin, the Thögal Ritual he endured in Nanda Parbat, and a visit from Batmite[6]. Batmite seems to encourage Batman to pull answers from the visions. These visions answer the question of where these three Batmen came from. With Batmite's help Batman remembers the isolation test and the three replacement police officers involved. Batman manages to escape from the Third Man, when the Third Man attempts to cut off Batman's hand. Batman had slid his hand completely out of his glove and while the Third Man is surprised, Batman attacks. Batman knocks a tray of acid onto the Third Man traps the third man to the floor. At this point the Third Man says to Batman, "this...this is your chance... if...if you kill me now, you can stop what's going to happen." Batman does not kill him so the Third Man continues, "well then, I...I have a side kick too...". At this point Bat-Bane comes through the wall with a rock. Before he can smash Batman though, he is shot in the head by Officer Farelli. During the confusion the Third Man escapes and Batman goes after him. Batman catches up to him but is too tired to follow him over the fence. The Third Man, standing on the opposite side of the fence tells him that his replacement
The "Three ghosts of Batman" is the fan-given name of a group of fictional characters, DC Comics supervillains and the name of the comics sub-plot in which they appear. These three individuals have appeared during Grant Morrison's run on Batman. All three have worn variants of his costume. All three of them have ties to the GCPD, as former policemen. In a strange twist, Batman explains to his butler Alfred Pennyworth, that he saw three similar figures in a past vision, but he believed it was merely a hallucination. As it turns out though, what Batman thought was a hallucination turned out to be a forgotten memory in which three men were chosen from the police force to train with Batman to replace him should anything ever happen to him. During the test Batman had himself isolated so that a Doctor Simon Hurt could study his moves and what drives him. During his time in the isolation experiment Batman hallucinated the death of Robin and was driven with guilt. When the three replacement Batmen came in to challenge them, he took them down easily. Dr. Hurt decided that the three Batmen needed to be driven by rage and sorrow, so he killed the third man's family, pouring glue in his brothers eyes, and carving up his sister. He also began adding venom and monster serum to the second cop, Bat-Bane, until that cop was driven to kill his own family in rage. Doctor Hurt put hypnotic suggestions into Batman's head to help him forget the whole experience and dismiss it has a bad dream. The three replacement cops were hidden away to await the day they would return.[2]
[edit] The Three Ghosts
[edit] Muller/"Bat-Cop"
Battled the Joker in Batman #655 (the first part of the Batman and Son storyline) who believed he was fighting the real Dark Knight. Using his years of experience of battling the real thing, the Joker nearly killed him.[3]
Battered and bleeding, this impostor pulled out a handgun and shot the Joker in the face, disfiguring him even further. Later in the issue, Commissioner Gordon explains to Batman that he was an ex-cop who seemingly snapped and decided to "clean up the city" using vigilante methods.
It is revealed in Batman #674, that this officer's name was Josef Muller. He was an ace marksman, but had both his hands broken by Batman while in the isolation chamber.
[edit] Branca/"Bat-Bane"
In Grant Morrison's Batman #664, Batman discovered that a pimp had been supplying an ex-policeman who lived on an abandoned facility with prostitutes. The women eventually turned up dead. Batman tracked him down and was severely beaten by the man, who was dressed in a mixture of Batman's and Bane's costumes. Batman suspected the imposter had used Hugo Strange's Monster Serum and daily venom shots to gain his size and strength.[4]
Batman #674 established that this monster really was force fed the growth-enhancing serum of Hugo Strange and the strength-enhancing super-steroid Venom. This made him strong enough to lift a Batmobile over his head during his battle with Batman and Robin. It is also revealed that he was a family man by the name of Branca, who eventually killed his own family while driven by rage from the drugs that Doctor Hurt had put into him.[5]
[edit] Lane/"Bat-Ghost"
Batman #674 revealed that the third man's name is Lane. It never clarifies if that is a first or last name. This third Batman appears twice in two different times. First he appears to Bruce Wayne's son Damian. Damian has taken the mantle of the Batman some 10 to 20 years in the future. In Batman #666, an adult Damian has inherited the mantle of the Bat and is seen pursuing this third Batman "ghost" who has been systematically murdering Gotham's ganglords, claiming to be the son of the Antichrist come to begin the end of days. He is eventually killed by Damian, who throws him out the window of Hotel Bethlehem. This "Batman" uses the basic costume, seemingly upgraded with either Firefly's or Heatwave's flamethrower. Like the "Bane" ghost, his face is completely hidden by his mask (goggles and a metallic plate conceal his eyes and mouth).
We see this third man again in the "present" storyline in Batman #672. Here he is referred to as the Third Man and attacks the Gotham City Police Department asking for Commissioner Vane. He then attacks Batman on the roof where he tosses him into the Batsignal. During the battle, Batman has a heart attack and goes into cardiac arrest. The Third Man then takes Batman and revives him with the intent to torture him in a rundown location. While Batman is captured with the Third Man, he has a series of visions that involve his final confrontation with Joe Chill who killed Bruce Wayne's parents, Thomas and Martha, some sort of isolation test Batman did earlier in his life, the death of Robin, the Thögal Ritual he endured in Nanda Parbat, and a visit from Batmite[6]. Batmite seems to encourage Batman to pull answers from the visions. These visions answer the question of where these three Batmen came from. With Batmite's help Batman remembers the isolation test and the three replacement police officers involved. Batman manages to escape from the Third Man, when the Third Man attempts to cut off Batman's hand. Batman had slid his hand completely out of his glove and while the Third Man is surprised, Batman attacks. Batman knocks a tray of acid onto the Third Man traps the third man to the floor. At this point the Third Man says to Batman, "this...this is your chance... if...if you kill me now, you can stop what's going to happen." Batman does not kill him so the Third Man continues, "well then, I...I have a side kick too...". At this point Bat-Bane comes through the wall with a rock. Before he can smash Batman though, he is shot in the head by Officer Farelli. During the confusion the Third Man escapes and Batman goes after him. Batman catches up to him but is too tired to follow him over the fence. The Third Man, standing on the opposite side of the fence tells him that his replacement
ToyMachine228
Member
Went back and read a few issues of RIP with the "Final Crisis tie-in theory" in mind, and it makes sense to me. Remember the scene where he's talking to the gargoyles and sees the green grids making up everything? Also, the "red and black", "red and black", "red and black". Seems to be all coming together for me.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I don't think either of those things were connected to Final Crisis. What makes you think they are?
Skittleguy
Ring a Bell for me
So was this whole thing partly the result of Batman being strapped into that machine by the followers of Darkseid in FC2?
ToyMachine228
Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
I'm asumming that what is happening in RIP is a vision, or half-conscious dream brought on by Darkseid's helmet/expirament that we see beginning in Final Crisis #2, and continuing in Batman #682. Bruce seeing the grids, could be a hint that he's "inside" this virtual world, and "red and black" are Darkseid's colors. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason for Joker repeating "red and black" so many times just to emphasize the colors of the roses.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I looked at it just as a repeating binary life/death motif that begins with the playing cards, echoes the roses and is metaphorical for his relationship with Jet - that red love is the flip side of the same coin as black death, that's the Joker's ultimate gag.
When have red & black been Darkseid's colours?
The grid thing is a standard Morrisonism - that environment speaks directly to us in symbolic language; he's been using that one since Doom Patrol. The idea being that this city of right angles has created an objectivist hyper-focused man who operates in absolute terms; that Batman was an inevitability, symptomatic of Gotham itself. It reinforces the first panel of RIP - Batman (and Robin) will never die; the city through its implicit structure will create one.
But that's just how I saw it, you might be right.
favouriteflavour
Member
Didn't Morrison say RIP is before Final Crisis? If thats true then RIP being a vision in Darkseids machine doesn't make sense.
ToyMachine228
Member
favouriteflavour said:
He has said that, but I also don't know if going by what Morrison said in an interview is a good idea. Could be misdirection. Or it might not be. Who knows. We've got one more issue of Batman in two weeks and then Final Crisis #6 before all this comes to a head, and then the fallout begins.
favouriteflavour
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Awesome JG Jones Wonder Woman cover this week!
Ephemeris
Member
Taken from http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120810-DiDio-20.html
Pretty lengthy interview. There's more, but I didn't want to turn my post into a paste-fest.
Pretty lengthy interview. There's more, but I didn't want to turn my post into a paste-fest.
Father_Brain
Banned
Fatghost said:
It might have been a more satisfying ending, in the context of Morrison's story. But in the broader DCU, it's just a terrible idea that shits all over the character for the sake of shock value.
ToyMachine228
Member
Ephemeris said:
Yeah, I think fans are upset because the actual comic series "Batman RIP" didn't end the way they wanted it too. But I think Final Crisis #6 will give us that ending. It's just a shame the actual arc by the name of "Batman RIP" seems to have a misleading title.
Skittleguy
Ring a Bell for me
So
who's grave were they digging up in the latest Nightwing?
ToyMachine228
Member
Skittleguy said:
Yeah, they never say for sure, but I think we are to assume that it was
Bruce's grave. My guess is that there isn't even a real body in there, even though Superman was talking about messing with the bodies...Even though you'd think that Superman can see through the coffin with X-Ray Vision...So, I'm not sure really.
The theory about R.I.P being a dream or a vision from Batman trapped in Darkseid's blahblahblah machine sounds impossible considering that both Nightwing and Robin books acknowledge and reference the events from R.I.P (Existence of a shadowy group called "Black Glove" which is gunning for Batman, Batman going crazy in purple pajamas, Nighwing's time in Arkham, Batman's "death"...).
Ephemeris
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I just thought it was just some random hero or something. First, it's a cemetery in Metropolis [IE, why would he be buried there]. Second, it seems I was the only one who read the earlier arc about some guys who were stealing deceased heroes' bodies * :lol Can't blame ya, it was pretty meh.
*See the Talia reference.
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