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Battlestar Galactica Season 3 thread
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ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
tedtropy said:Another great episode, and very stylistically different from the previous ones. Man, what a shit position poor Gaius is in the middle of. Also, you gotta love a little Sharon fan service now and then.
I just can't wait until they get Baltar to the Cylon homeworld, they give him a Lucifer model Cylon, and he gets a really tall chair to sit on.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
B.K. said:
Never mention Galactica 1980 ever again. If we act like it never happened, it'll be better for all of us.
Another great episode. Adama with Starbuck and Saul was amazing. Great character work on all their parts. Lee losing the fat did seem a little quick, as it really didn't seem like that much time had passed. Baltar's life was still in the balance with the cylons, and it didn't seem like he was on the basestar for months yet. But, I fogave them for getting the fat off, as you knew they were going to get him back to his old self, and there is no easy way to do it, and make it more realistic. Perhaps one more episode would have helped, but I'm glad he's getting back to normal.
Can't wait to see where they go next week with the whole cylon disease angle. The show keeps getting better and better.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Kung Fu Jedi said:
The last ep of Galactica 1980 was actually pretty good. The rest was crap, and even the original series was not very good after the pilot movie.
Stoney Mason
Banned
EviLore said:
I watched this episode twice. The first time I thought it was boring. The second time I thought it was poetic, artsy, and brilliant.
People should check out Ron Moore's podcasts. They are excellent. He basically gives an account of how the early revisions of this episode were poor and tells how they re-worked it in response to that. His podcasts are always insightful in that way and best of all he's never all up in his own ass even though he would have every right to be producing such a great show. He's always very hard and realistic on the episodes. Good stuff although he does tend to dole out the spoilers.
CajoleJuice
Member
Just watched the episode (had to watch it before the new one tonight) and just WOW. I really can't believe how fracking awesome this season is so far.
CajoleJuice
Member
What?? If a show like this can't hold its viewership and gain even more, I don't know what to think anymore.DarienA said:
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
SpoonyBard said:
Was the last episode of 1980 the one with Starbuck making a cameo? If so, then yeah, I'd agree that that one was pretty good. The rest was crap.
As for the orginal series, I loved it when I was a kid, but watching it now is pretty painful. That happens a lot with 70's era TV shows that just don't hold very well with time. But damn, if I didn't watch every episode, and love 'em, when I was 8!
CajoleJuice
Member
DarienA said:
I could see a move to Wednesday possibly helping...I'm not around on Friday nights to watch it a lot of the time.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
icarus-daedelus said:
Possibly. Could just be a group that wholly rejected the organic and dealings with such. (Kinda dull seeming I realize, but it would represent a major rift.)
That psycho lady cylon looked like she thought Gaius was conversing directly with God. (Not surprising since she seems to see that in everyone's actions all the time.)
Pikmindictator
Member
Ghost said:
I didn't really like this episode either. The whole ' virus is just a milenium old commen cold' thing was kind of disapointing.
The prevention of genocide is a good thing in my opinion, personally I hoped that Adama was the one that came to reason and slapped rosllyn in the face for even thinking about it, not some one man action.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
It's like "I, Borg" except that Helo is married to Hugh.
I think I missed a bit of something. The Cylons thought this was some bioelectrical component that would be transmitted when they were resurrected; were they just totally wrong about that? Not that I know full details of how their resurrections work, of course.Pikmindicator said:
Pikmindictator said:
Sorry, I'm entirely with Lee on this one.
These asshats wiped out a population of two-digit billions down to under 50k, then hounded them relentlessly for the purposes of complete extermination, then relented only long enough to make their settlement into a concentration camp. And now, they want to conquer Earth so they can finish the job they started on humanity.
Frankly, they earned their own retaliatory destruction.
Systems_id
Banned
More like, "it's you or me.".icarus-daedelus said:
icarus-daedelus said:
No, it's "they are dedicated to killing us and are actively hunting us down and trying to cause our destruction."
The cylons have made it clear that as long as they exist, they will always be the enemy of mankind and that they are committed to the ideals of genocide. They should be stopped no matter what.
What Helo did last night makes him directly responsible for every single death the colonial fleet suffers from future Cylon attacks. At the very least he deserves a court martial and to be stripped of any command.
Pikmindictator
Member
JayDubya said:
As Helo said they did try to live with the humans. Because of that, I can't help but feel that they have changed and killing the entire human race isn't on the top of their agenda anymore. So the colonials should give them some slack. Because they didn't just nuke new caprica when they had the chance.
Stoney Mason
Banned
That was my first meh episode of the season. It was decent but sort of a comedown after last week's very good episode imo. Everything was a little too convenient in the resolutions.
Pikmindictator said:
They held the humans prisoner on a backwater planet then tortured the ones they dont like, i dont see how thats anything like living with them. And besides they already wiped out billions! Helos actions make no ****ing sense for a character in that universe, we are supposed to be believe that, what a year?, after he was on Caprica having to choose which refugees to save he now thinks the Cylons are cool guys? ****ing bullshit.
Pikmindictator
Member
They held the humans prisoner on a backwater planet then tortured the ones they dont like is still a step up then full out nuking.
And I also think that its wrong to lower to the same level as the cylons. If they did that then they are no better.
And I also think that its wrong to lower to the same level as the cylons. If they did that then they are no better.
That, and I always thought this show was awesome and badass because the colonials don't typically do the pretentious Starfleet-esque moralizing on account of their horrible situation being post-genocide refugees.
They should always run, but if they get the chance to give the Cylons a black eye, they should definitely take it. These guys are Terminators, plain and simple. They don't deserve your pity or your mercy because they will give you none.
They should always run, but if they get the chance to give the Cylons a black eye, they should definitely take it. These guys are Terminators, plain and simple. They don't deserve your pity or your mercy because they will give you none.
JayDubya said:
I think you're wrong. The cylons seem to be people in every sense of the word, but just with different lifecycles and social conventions than humans. While they made the choice to wipe out humanity, we know that either not every cylon agreed to that decision at the time or that some of them regretted it after the fact. Their hatred of humanity appears to be based not on some programming, but lies and religious beliefs about the human race that have been passed down, and not every cylon believes in those. Cylons seem to force or convince other cylons to believe things just like human beings do.
The things that separate human beings from the skinjob cylons don't appear to be substantial enough to say they are not people. Even the act that seemed to suggest most that cylons aren't individuals (Sharon's attempted assassination of Adama) continues to be, all these episodes later, one of the biggest mysteries on the show - and probably partially her own free choice.
Adama in particular looked horrified at seeing the black cylon model being walked around like a slave.
darkiguana
Member
I think I am siding with Jaydubya on this. The cylons wiped out human civilization, and then decided to enslave the rest. IMO, they deserve whatever the colonial fleet sends at them.
However, I do think its believable that Helo would do what he did, given his relationship with Sharon. I also think Adama's reservations were reasonable as well for the same reasons as Helo.
I think that Adama would have jumped at the chance to wipe out the cylons before he met Sharon. But after dealing with her for over a year and making her part of the fleet, he's not so sure. Roslin on the other hand probably would have been more hesitant before the cylon occupation. But now after her experience on New Caprica, she wants to wipe them out no matter the cost.
However, I do think its believable that Helo would do what he did, given his relationship with Sharon. I also think Adama's reservations were reasonable as well for the same reasons as Helo.
I think that Adama would have jumped at the chance to wipe out the cylons before he met Sharon. But after dealing with her for over a year and making her part of the fleet, he's not so sure. Roslin on the other hand probably would have been more hesitant before the cylon occupation. But now after her experience on New Caprica, she wants to wipe them out no matter the cost.
I don't know how anyone can legitimately sympathize with the Cylons in this show. Maybe Athena, maybe Boomer (I think they gave her the new callsign to help distinguish between the two Galactica Sharons), but not the rest. I can find them interesting, I can empathize with some of them when they get emotional, especially Caprica Six, but sympathize with them to the point where I like them or pity them? No way!
I mean, watching Leoben get tortured, I didn't feel any sympathy at all, and that seems to be where a lot of audience members started caring about the humane treatment of Cylons. I'm sorry, but these frakkers nuked 99.99% of humanity out of existance after an unconditional surrender. Whatever analogs there are to real life in this show, the opening salvo by the Cylons in the miniseries far exceeds any awful thing real life humanity has ever done on this Earth. There is quite simply no retaliation too unthinkable for something of that magnitude.
I can't believe Starback didn't just kill Casey with that knife, for example. I don't know if she knew how badly the Cylons wanted their hybrid for their next stage of evolution, I know for certain she didn't know Casey was really a human and Leoben was lying, but if she knew the significance of a hybrid to them, I'm surprised she didn't just kill the girl right then and there. At the time, I thought she should have, frankly.
It was alright for Adama and Roslin to keep Hera secretly because they had her should they need her for research or as a bargaining chip or whatever else, but they should have killed Hera before letting the Cylons have her. Same thing with Casey, if Starbuck knew the implications.
Lee's plan was nothing short of awesome. I highly doubt it would have killed them all, but it would have utterly wiped out the current pursuit fleet. I knew something would go wrong because there'd be no drama if there were no evil Cylons flying about, but it shouldn't have been a traitor from within, again, with that traitor being given a pardon, again.
I mean, watching Leoben get tortured, I didn't feel any sympathy at all, and that seems to be where a lot of audience members started caring about the humane treatment of Cylons. I'm sorry, but these frakkers nuked 99.99% of humanity out of existance after an unconditional surrender. Whatever analogs there are to real life in this show, the opening salvo by the Cylons in the miniseries far exceeds any awful thing real life humanity has ever done on this Earth. There is quite simply no retaliation too unthinkable for something of that magnitude.
I can't believe Starback didn't just kill Casey with that knife, for example. I don't know if she knew how badly the Cylons wanted their hybrid for their next stage of evolution, I know for certain she didn't know Casey was really a human and Leoben was lying, but if she knew the significance of a hybrid to them, I'm surprised she didn't just kill the girl right then and there. At the time, I thought she should have, frankly.
It was alright for Adama and Roslin to keep Hera secretly because they had her should they need her for research or as a bargaining chip or whatever else, but they should have killed Hera before letting the Cylons have her. Same thing with Casey, if Starbuck knew the implications.
Lee's plan was nothing short of awesome. I highly doubt it would have killed them all, but it would have utterly wiped out the current pursuit fleet. I knew something would go wrong because there'd be no drama if there were no evil Cylons flying about, but it shouldn't have been a traitor from within, again, with that traitor being given a pardon, again.
This debate is great (even if the episode had some flaws, like problems "resolved" with techno-babble), and highlights one reason why BSG is so rad.
For the record, I tend toward Helo's position on this one, though this is almost certainly because as a viewer I've seen a lot more of the cylon's internal behavior and society than any of the in-show human characters have.
For the record, I tend toward Helo's position on this one, though this is almost certainly because as a viewer I've seen a lot more of the cylon's internal behavior and society than any of the in-show human characters have.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Another very good episode for me. Maybe not on par with the opening of the season, but still very well done.
The one thing that bothered me was that when they jumped in to lure the cylons close, and were going to kill the prisoners to spread the disease, I thought it was just plain stupid that they didn't have the soliders already in the room to kill them off. It was like, "Ok. We jumped in. We're luring the cylon fleet now. Tell the marines to take a nice leisurely stroll down to the Brig to kill off those prisoners who are critical to our plan."
As for the debate, to me there is no debate. If you have the opportunity to wipe out an enemy that has hunted you to near exctinction, and is really hell bent on finishing the task, you need to take it. It really is pretty hard for me to see how you can give the cylons any kind of sympathy, as they are fairly single minded in their pursuit of the human race.
The one thing that bothered me was that when they jumped in to lure the cylons close, and were going to kill the prisoners to spread the disease, I thought it was just plain stupid that they didn't have the soliders already in the room to kill them off. It was like, "Ok. We jumped in. We're luring the cylon fleet now. Tell the marines to take a nice leisurely stroll down to the Brig to kill off those prisoners who are critical to our plan."
As for the debate, to me there is no debate. If you have the opportunity to wipe out an enemy that has hunted you to near exctinction, and is really hell bent on finishing the task, you need to take it. It really is pretty hard for me to see how you can give the cylons any kind of sympathy, as they are fairly single minded in their pursuit of the human race.
What you're missing is that this isnt some pointless war over territory or religion, fought under military laws and regulations. It's a fight for the very survival of the human race (And thats been pushed in the show from the very beginning). What the writers have basically done is say Helo cares more about the Cylons than the remaining humans..even though his Cylon wife doesnt. I could have understood Sharon killing herself to get the cure to the cylons as a reset for the virus storyline, but saying that a veteren soldier doesnt understand that he just doomed his entire race on 'prinicpal' is ****ing retarded beyond belief
Im not angry at the character, im angry at the writers for thinking that Helos actions make even the slightest bit of sense in the context of the show..he BETTER turn out to be a Cylon or im gonna go take back all those awards they got.
ugh, if it was any other show i would probably have spammed this thread with :lol's but BSG totally sucked me into the universe which just makes for a much bigger jolt when shit like this happens.
CajoleJuice
Member
Yea, I gotta say that Helo pulling this shit is garbage.
And he can't be a Cylon. It's been proven that he is human.
Right?
And he can't be a Cylon. It's been proven that he is human.
Right?
CajoleJuice
Member
I think Colonel Tigh would kill Helo.
Hypothetical:
We eventually clone humans, and then let's say that after a time the world governments decide that cloning is a bad thing for society to take part in, so we put all the clones we can find on Australia (and evacuate the "human" population there). Australia uses cloning technology, now banned in the rest of the world, to clone highly intelligent people and therefore progress technology faster. They also clone natural soldiers and begin "building" a highly disciplined, highly trained army of clone soldiers.
100 years pass and the clones have a radical, organized government that has swayed public opinion there to form a general consensus on destroying the non-clones, as the world governments are not allowing them to live outside of Australia and they feel they have a right to the world. They invade, and using superior armaments they destroy most of the world's population (very simply, given how powerful the weapons are), except fo let's say England. England is somehow holding its ground for now, and a ceasefire was even in place for a short time, but English scientists have discovered a way to destroy all the clones in one shot.
Now, you're a person with access to the device the scientists have built. The remaining "human" government has decided that they will use the device and destroy all of the clones on the world. You're married to a clone, after having fallen in love during the war when you were behind enemy lines. There are thousands of clones who look exactly like your wife, but she's herself and you love only her. And though you'll be able to protect her from the device's effects, and she has sworn alliegiance to England and won't betray them, you can't help but feel that killing millions or billions of clones and wiping them all out -- clones who are very obviously sentient beings extremely similar to normal humans -- is just plain wrong, regardless of what has happened before. You've lost loved ones to the clone invasion, and everyone you know has as well, but the love for your wife, her love for you, and the mere possibility of peace doesn't make genocide an option for you.
Wow, that's totally a 100% black & white scenario, right? Every person in that situation would press the button to destroy the clone population, right?
...
When it comes down to it, you could even consider the skinjob cylons to be within the same species as the humans. They have a hell of a time telling humans and cylons apart when they haven't established what a particular "model" looks like, and a human and a cylon have had a child together. Cylons have flesh and blood and bones, they think for themselves and some have committed traitorous acts against their own for the sake of humanity. Not wanting a genocide despite what has happened is very human of Helo, and I don't think it's bad writing at all.
Wanting to kill all the cylons is also a very valid response, considering what humanity and the survivors have gone through.
We eventually clone humans, and then let's say that after a time the world governments decide that cloning is a bad thing for society to take part in, so we put all the clones we can find on Australia (and evacuate the "human" population there). Australia uses cloning technology, now banned in the rest of the world, to clone highly intelligent people and therefore progress technology faster. They also clone natural soldiers and begin "building" a highly disciplined, highly trained army of clone soldiers.
100 years pass and the clones have a radical, organized government that has swayed public opinion there to form a general consensus on destroying the non-clones, as the world governments are not allowing them to live outside of Australia and they feel they have a right to the world. They invade, and using superior armaments they destroy most of the world's population (very simply, given how powerful the weapons are), except fo let's say England. England is somehow holding its ground for now, and a ceasefire was even in place for a short time, but English scientists have discovered a way to destroy all the clones in one shot.
Now, you're a person with access to the device the scientists have built. The remaining "human" government has decided that they will use the device and destroy all of the clones on the world. You're married to a clone, after having fallen in love during the war when you were behind enemy lines. There are thousands of clones who look exactly like your wife, but she's herself and you love only her. And though you'll be able to protect her from the device's effects, and she has sworn alliegiance to England and won't betray them, you can't help but feel that killing millions or billions of clones and wiping them all out -- clones who are very obviously sentient beings extremely similar to normal humans -- is just plain wrong, regardless of what has happened before. You've lost loved ones to the clone invasion, and everyone you know has as well, but the love for your wife, her love for you, and the mere possibility of peace doesn't make genocide an option for you.
Wow, that's totally a 100% black & white scenario, right? Every person in that situation would press the button to destroy the clone population, right?
...
When it comes down to it, you could even consider the skinjob cylons to be within the same species as the humans. They have a hell of a time telling humans and cylons apart when they haven't established what a particular "model" looks like, and a human and a cylon have had a child together. Cylons have flesh and blood and bones, they think for themselves and some have committed traitorous acts against their own for the sake of humanity. Not wanting a genocide despite what has happened is very human of Helo, and I don't think it's bad writing at all.
Wanting to kill all the cylons is also a very valid response, considering what humanity and the survivors have gone through.
Phoenix
Member
The episode was an interesting redressing of the classic question of how far should one go for victory. If I were in Adamas position, I'm not sure I could have taken the route he did. It would be different if we weren't being hunted like dogs while simultaneously trying to outrun my enemy to my new home. And not knowing how I could possibly defeat them once I got there.
So for those reasons, I'm not sure I would have so easily passed up in the chance to be free of the cylon threat.
So for those reasons, I'm not sure I would have so easily passed up in the chance to be free of the cylon threat.
While it wasn't up to the quality of the first six, this was still another great episode. I can't believe we've almost got through the whole first half of Season 3 and the worst episode so far can be described as 'still great'. This show rocks.
I didn't really dig the whole virus thing, but I really liked what it caused within the story. I loved the whole 'should we do it or not' angle, and how the show never really sided with one way or the other. I also liked how they found out about Baltar on the Basestar, and that the Cylons were now looking for Earth too. It'll lend to some interesting decisions later on I'm sure. I wonder how this will affect Helo's character, and if/when anyone else will find out what he did.
Next week's looks interesting as well. Was that
Only two more to go before the mid-season finale!!
I didn't really dig the whole virus thing, but I really liked what it caused within the story. I loved the whole 'should we do it or not' angle, and how the show never really sided with one way or the other. I also liked how they found out about Baltar on the Basestar, and that the Cylons were now looking for Earth too. It'll lend to some interesting decisions later on I'm sure. I wonder how this will affect Helo's character, and if/when anyone else will find out what he did.
Next week's looks interesting as well. Was that
a Simon model who got out of the Raider?
Another part of the writting that was retarded was Helo saying "It seems like they're always after one of us" to Athena/Sharon.
Umm... ok, maybe you could have played that line BEFORE it had been established that Helo had been XO of galactica for quite some time and Sharon had been accepted by the crew. I mean wtf, it's very clear that by the timethe previous episode rolled around that pretty much everyone was A-OK with Sharon, and it had been shown at the start of Season 3 that Adama had developed a good relationship with Sharon dating back for at least a certain period of time during the 1 year jump a period where in she was confined the her room/cell the entire time, meaning that a witch hunt on her for some problem would have been very unlikely.
And when have they ever been after Helo, sure he had to deal with some stigma over Sharon no doubt but that's not remotely the same.
Seriously, I'm a fan of this series, but Season 1 was probably its peak, it seems more and more there's writting that just doesn't make sense and sloppy editing the further along that we're going here.
=|
Umm... ok, maybe you could have played that line BEFORE it had been established that Helo had been XO of galactica for quite some time and Sharon had been accepted by the crew. I mean wtf, it's very clear that by the timethe previous episode rolled around that pretty much everyone was A-OK with Sharon, and it had been shown at the start of Season 3 that Adama had developed a good relationship with Sharon dating back for at least a certain period of time during the 1 year jump a period where in she was confined the her room/cell the entire time, meaning that a witch hunt on her for some problem would have been very unlikely.
And when have they ever been after Helo, sure he had to deal with some stigma over Sharon no doubt but that's not remotely the same.
Seriously, I'm a fan of this series, but Season 1 was probably its peak, it seems more and more there's writting that just doesn't make sense and sloppy editing the further along that we're going here.
=|
A couple of random thoughts:
I hope they return to the Lion's Head nebula and harvest all of the abandoned Cylon raiders. That could really help the fleet! They even know how to fly the raiders now (because of Starbuck's persistence!) And the warp range!
Also, I'm sure they could infect and execute a Cylon within range of a resurrection ship at any time. Not hard to set up that scenario.
Another use of the virus would be as a Cylon detector/repellent. :lol
I hope they return to the Lion's Head nebula and harvest all of the abandoned Cylon raiders. That could really help the fleet! They even know how to fly the raiders now (because of Starbuck's persistence!) And the warp range!
Also, I'm sure they could infect and execute a Cylon within range of a resurrection ship at any time. Not hard to set up that scenario.
Another use of the virus would be as a Cylon detector/repellent. :lol
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